A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[IrishLion]

Anybody decided one way or the other on whether or not you're going to continue with the show or wait for the books?

I think I'm going to wait for the books, which should be an interesting study on avoiding spoilers in all aspects of life.

 

[IrishLax]

Anybody decided one way or the other on whether or not you're going to continue with the show or wait for the books?

I think I'm going to wait for the books, which should be an interesting study on avoiding spoilers in all aspects of life.

The first media I can consume, I will consume.

 

[IrishLion]

The first media I can consume, I will consume.

I should amend my post to say "book" and not "books."

No way I can wait the 10+ years it will take for him to finish out the series.

But I should be able to skip a year or two of the show to wait for TWoW.

 

[Emcee77]

Has anyone thought/discussed that maybe the books and show will go in two completely different directions with two completely different end games??

It seems increasingly possible, doesn't it? I am taking nothing for granted.

Really, nothing.

David Benioff wrote the movie Troy, in which he took the story of the Iliad, a story of which an integral component is the interference and intervention of gods in the affairs of humankind, and made the story a weird travesty of itself by eliminating that component. Not only eliminated it, but made the very idea of divine intervention an object of ridicule. No reason to think he won't similarly contort GRRM's story beyond recognition, especially now that there isn't a fully-finished "script" for him to follow, even if he wanted to.

I could almost see him going so far as to do something that utterly contravenes one of GRRM's prophecies and have a character explain it by saying, "that's what you get when you trust a false god" or something like that. Wouldn't be totally out of keeping with what he did to Troy (though I have no idea if Weiss is like-minded).

The first media I can consume, I will consume.

Lol, yeah, same for me. I am going for whichever comes out first, no doubt.

Only exception to this rule is the sample chapters from TWOW. I have avoided them because I think they are just a big tease and all they will do is make me more impatient for the finished sixth book. Am I missing anything really good in them? I may reconsider now that the show is over and I am due for a bout of GRRM withdrawal soon.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't really agree with most of these nitpicks. I think you're generally over picky with the nitpicks each week.

You can't be overly picky with nitpicks. That's why they're nitpicks.

For example, you went off about the poison scene earlier in the season... yet it was 100% necessary to set up following scenes including the death of Myrcella.

I disagree. The treat the audience like idiots. We don't need such ham-fisted foreshadowing.

Myrcella's poisoning... yeah the WHOLE FUCKING POINT is that those people want OPEN WAR. They want the poisoning to be obvious, for the same reason the threat they sent to King's Landing was obvious.

I get that, but Myrcella died like half a mile from shore. There's no reason Jamie shouldn't cut Trystane's throat right then and there.

While I agree "bad pussy" was a bit eye-rolley, that scene is entirely consistent with the vernacular they've used in the show from episode 1, season 1.

Consistently shitty writing doesn't make it un-shitty.

Greyworm ISN'T qualified to lead Mereen but he is a good FIGUREHEAD that people know, who also has command over the peacekeeping force.

That's exactly my point. Their entire peacekeeping force is absolutely TERRIBLE at... you know... peacekeeping.

 

[zelezo vlk]

It seems increasingly possible, doesn't it? I am taking nothing for granted.

Really, nothing.

David Benioff wrote the movie Troy, in which he took the story of the Iliad, a story of which an integral component is the interference and intervention of gods in the affairs of humankind, and made the story a weird travesty of itself by eliminating that component. Not only eliminated it, but made the very idea of divine intervention an object of ridicule. No reason to think he won't do the same here. I could almost see him going so far as to do something that utterly contravenes one of GRRM's prophecies and have a character explain it by saying, "that's what you get when you trust a false god" or something like that. Wouldn't be totally out of keeping with what he did to Troy (though I have no idea if Weiss is like-minded).



Lol, yeah, same for me. I am going for whichever comes out first, no doubt.

Only exception to this rule is the sample chapters from TWOW. I have avoided them because I think they are just a big tease and all they will do is make me more impatient for the finished sixth book. Am I missing anything really good in them? I may reconsider now that the show is over and I am due for a bout of GRRM withdrawal soon.

Troy was an awful movie. O'Toole did a great King Priam though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[ACamp1900]

Remember when watching TV was fun???

 

[IrishLax]

I disagree. The treat the audience like idiots. We don't need such ham-fisted foreshadowing.

Ummm....

Generally a pretty mundane episode. Embarrassing that they had to work in a completely unnecessary Bronn-was-poisoned arc as a way to get some bewbs in.

So which is it? Did they work in a completely unnecessary Bronn was poisoned arc just for nudity...

Or was that "ham-fisted foreshadowing" of how poison was going to be used later...

Or maybe, just maybe, it was vehicle to introduce to show watchers to a specific poison from the books that would be used in a pivotal moment of the season finale.

It's just highly ironic that you bemoaned the poison introduction as being all about boobs and irrelevant... and then after it's used in a key plot point, suddenly the foreshadowing was "ham-fisted."

 

[IrishLax]

Lol, yeah, same for me. I am going for whichever comes out first, no doubt.

Only exception to this rule is the sample chapters from TWOW. I have avoided them because I think they are just a big tease and all they will do is make me more impatient for the finished sixth book. Am I missing anything really good in them? I may reconsider now that the show is over and I am due for a bout of GRRM withdrawal soon.

i'm like you, intentionally avoiding the sample chapters.

 

[#1rish]

I know nothing about GoT or have read/watched it, but it's absolutely hilarious on how some fans on social media are truly devastated at this guy's death.

 

[phork]

I know nothing about GoT or have read/watched it, but it's absolutely hilarious on how some fans on social media are truly devastated at this guy's death.

You must not have been around for the Red Wedding?

 

[GreenSox04]

Was Trystan Martell on the ship with Jamie/Myrcella and co.?

 

[gkIrish]

I also won't be reading sample chapters.

My thought on whether I will watch show or wait for book depends entirely on what they announce between now and next April. If I know the book will come out in December 2016 I think I will try and wait and watch On Demand after I read TWOW. If there still is no definite timeline I will just watch the show.

 

[gkIrish]

Was Trystan Martell on the ship with Jamie/Myrcella and co.?

Yes.

 

[wizards8507]

So which is it? Did they work in a completely unnecessary Bronn was poisoned arc just for nudity...

Or was that "ham-fisted foreshadowing" of how poison was going to be used later...

Or maybe, just maybe, it was vehicle to introduce to show watchers to a specific poison from the books that would be used in a pivotal moment of the season finale.

It's just highly ironic that you bemoaned the poison introduction as being all about boobs and irrelevant... and then after it's used in a key plot point, suddenly the foreshadowing was "ham-fisted."

That's exactly what ham-fisted means. If you have even two brain cells to rub together, you can figure out that a kiss followed by the kissee collapsing in her own blood and the kisser sipping from a vial, wiping off her lipstick, and walking away unscathed means that she used poison lipstick. Unless you're a moron (not you, IrishLax, the general "you" of the audience), you don't need the prison scene to figure out what happened in the scene on the docks. i.e. ham-fisted AND unnecessary.

 

[Irish YJ]

I get that, but Myrcella died like half a mile from shore. There's no reason Jamie shouldn't cut Trystane's throat right then and there.

Or turn the boat around. Or maybe Trystane jumps off the boat and kills his aunt. Trystane's father and Jamie seemed to have a mutual respect for each other, so will be an interesting storyline whichever way it spins out.

 

[IrishLax]

That's exactly what ham-fisted means. If you have even two brain cells to rub together, you can figure out that a kiss followed by the kissee collapsing in her own blood and the kisser sipping from a vial, wiping off her lipstick, and walking away unscathed means that she used poison lipstick.

OK what I'm misunderstanding is your use of "foreshadowing"... I thought you were implying that the setup to when they actually getting on the boat made it obvious that she was going to get poisoned.

Like how showing Ollie glaring at Jon every episode and then having the scene about "doing what you believe is right" was foreshadowing that Ollie was going to get stabby stabby.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

David Benioff wrote the movie Troy, in which he took the story of the Iliad, a story of which an integral component is the interference and intervention of gods in the affairs of humankind, and made the story a weird travesty of itself by eliminating that component. Not only eliminated it, but made the very idea of divine intervention an object of ridicule. No reason to think he won't similarly contort GRRM's story beyond recognition, especially now that there isn't a fully-finished "script" for him to follow, even if he wanted to.

That's a great point, and it touches on my #1 gripe about the show-- the caricature of religion. Some of that comes from GRRM himself; for instance, based on the example of medieval Europe, maesters and septons should be one in the same. Yet Martin goes out of his way to separate healing, education and advising from the Faith.

But Benioff takes it so much further. The Sparrows as black-robed puritans with pentagrams carved into their heads? Septas as sadistic scolds? A large part of Martin's brilliance is that ASoIaF is so thoroughly steeped in history, and the characters are deep and believable. Benioff's bullsh!t editorializing has bulldozed a lot of that.

 

[IrishLax]

How would people rank the veritably alive characters in terms of "give a shit" if they die? Here's my top 5:
1. Tyrion
2. Bronn

That's it. Honestly don't care about anyone else.

 

[IrishLax]

That's a great point, and it touches on my #1 gripe about the show-- the caricature of religion. Some of that comes from GRRM himself; for instance, based on the example of medieval Europe, maesters and septons should be one in the same. Yet Martin goes out of his way to separate healing, education and advising from the Faith.

But Benioff takes it so much further. The Sparrows as black-robed puritans with pentagrams carved into their heads? Septas as sadistic scolds? A large part of Martin's brilliance is that ASoIaF is so thoroughly steeped in history, and the characters are deep and believable. Benioff's bullsh!t editorializing has bulldozed a lot of that.

To take it a step further, he's on record as saying he hates religion and doesn't believe in God and thinks anyone who runs their life accordingly to religion is "crazy." And that in GoT, with Gods "actually being real and having power" it "makes sense" (unlike in our real world) that people would be dedicated to them and do "crazy" things for them. And he wants to explore how religion is bad and people will do crazy things through the lens of "but Gods are/could be real and as such the crazy has a logical component."

It's the same anti-religious attitude that, as you two noted, contributed deeply to the twisting of Troy.

 

[Irish YJ]

How would people rank the veritably alive characters in terms of "give a shit" if they die? Here's my top 5:
1. Tyrion
2. Bronn

That's it. Honestly don't care about anyone else.

Since Jon is still alive lol....

1. John
2. Tyrion
3. Jorah - yep, I know he's diseased...
4. Bronn
5. Tormund or Randyll

 

[IrishLax]

Since Jon is still alive lol....

1. John
2. Tyrion
3. Jorah - yep, I know he's diseased...
4. Bronn
5. Tormund or Randyll

OR IS HE!?!?!

It's going to be funny when they try so hard to keep that under wraps when filming for next season but it eventually leaks that he's on set.

 

[Irish YJ]

OR IS HE!?!?!

It's going to be funny when they try so hard to keep that under wraps when filming for next season but it eventually leaks that he's on set.

That's what I'm thinking too. Or, if he doesn't appear till late in the season, they may try to smuggle him in near the end of filming. Either way, just one more dynamic to follow during the off season.

I'm not up on all the Warging abilities, but is it possible for a Warg to transition to another living person permanently? Perhaps he jumps to Olly lol

 

[woolybug25]

For those show watchers, here is a great article breaking down the different Jon Snow theories regarding warging into a dire wolf, being reserrected, etc. Complete with gif fodder. Enjoy.

Is Jon Snow Really Dead on Game of Thrones? | Vanity Fair

 

[wizards8507]

I'm not up on all the Warging abilities, but is it possible for a Warg to transition to another living person permanently? Perhaps he jumps to Olly lol

I don't think so.

1. It takes practice.
2. It's easier if the subject is simple-minded (i.e. Bran warging Hodor).
3. It's generally considered evil.
4. You have to do it on purpose. Jon could probably warg Ghost by accident due to their bond.
5. The "host" eventually either kicks you out or you become assimilated into its consciousness.

 

[Irish YJ]

I don't think so.

1. It takes practice.
2. It's easier if the subject is simple-minded (i.e. Bran warging Hodor).
3. It's generally considered evil.
4. You have to do it on purpose. Jon could probably warg Ghost by accident due to their bond.
5. The "host" eventually either kicks you out or you become assimilated into its consciousness.

Maybe he wargs the Giant, and crushes everyone...
Not sure if assuming the Giant is simple minded is PC. Sorry if you're a giant.

 

[IrishLion]

How would people rank the veritably alive characters in terms of "give a shit" if they die? Here's my top 5:
1. Tyrion
2. Bronn

That's it. Honestly don't care about anyone else.

1. Arya. I'll be devastated if she doesn't get to live out her revenge fantasy behind her powers as a Faceless Ma, and also if Nymeria doesn't become part of her assassin repertoire once she's back in Westeros.

2. Rickon Stark, First of His name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.

3. Tyrion. He's made it too far, despite the challenges and disadvantages and attempts at murder. I'm too invested in his outcome.

Maybe he wargs the Giant, and crushes everyone...
Not sure if assuming the Giant is simple minded is PC. Sorry if you're a giant.

Wun Wun ain't simple bruh. I'll be contacting the Wildling Civil Liberties Union in short order.

 

[wizards8507]

2. Rickon Stark, First of His name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.

How does that work? I could buy Rickon Stark, First of His Name, King of the North and Lord of Winterfell. You want him on the Iron Throne?

 

[IrishLion]

How does that work? I could buy Rickon Stark, First of His Name, King of the North and Lord of Winterfell. You want him on the Iron Throne?

I don't know how it works, that's just what I desire. He's been stashed away for a rainy day.

Once Dany and Jon have it out with/against the Night's King and the Others, and all Seven Kingdoms have been devastated by the fight for life against the horrors of the Long Winter, the surviving Northerners will bring him to light and announce him as King in the North, and the rest of the realm will realize that he is the unbiased, untouched son of an honorable Lord, and they will sing his praises and accept his claim as King in the North, and then clamor for him to lead the entire realm as Spring blossoms.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't know how it works, that's just what I desire. He's been stashed away for a rainy day.

Once Dany and Jon have it out with/against the Night's King and the Others, and all Seven Kingdoms have been devastated by the fight for life against the horrors of the Long Winter, the surviving Northerners will bring him to light and announce him as King in the North, and the rest of the realm will realize that he is the unbiased, untouched son of an honorable Lord, and they will sing his praises and accept his claim as King in the North, and then clamor for him to lead the entire realm as Spring blossoms.

Ugh my least-preferred endgame is a Dany and Jon team-up. Just no. It's corny as hell and it's also asymmetrical.