'15 LA OLB Bo Wallace (Arizona State Verbal)

NDohio

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arahop said:
I never once said or alluded to academic culture at Notre Dame not mattering. I never once said that ND will never win another championship.
The message that I am sending is clear. The way things are being done by admissions, and the academic precedence that they have set the last 20 plus years are not translating to football excellence. Brian Kelly has done a remarkable job to even get a few exceptions. It's clear that for ND to accomplish even more on the football field, Admissions and the blue hairs will have to give more academic leeway. I'm not saying sell our souls or lose integrity whatsoever. We can still graduate 98 percent of the football team. We just need to allow 3-6 kids a year that couldn't enroll at ND otherwise. Both academics and future championships can be achieved by allowing this to happen. If something along the lines of the aforementioned doesn't happen, we will all have the pleasure of reading your well researched value of a Notre Dame degree 20 years from now too. I would just rather have it be with a championship or 3 to go along with it.
Click to expand...


I can't say this with any kind of certainty, but I would bet that this is happening now. Probably closer to the 3 than the 6, but happening.
 
stlnd01

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Admitting borderline cases isn't the hard part. Like NDOhio, I suspect we do some of that already. The hard part is knowing which of those borderline cases have the stuff (fit, desire, personality, whatever) to make it through four years and graduate. Flunk-outs and transfers don't really help anyone.
 
woolybug25

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arahop said:
I never once said or alluded to academic culture at Notre Dame not mattering. I never once said that ND will never win another championship.
The message that I am sending is clear. The way things are being done by admissions, and the academic precedence that they have set the last 20 plus years are not translating to football excellence. Brian Kelly has done a remarkable job to even get a few exceptions. It's clear that for ND to accomplish even more on the football field, Admissions and the blue hairs will have to give more academic leeway. I'm not saying sell our souls or lose integrity whatsoever. We can still graduate 98 percent of the football team. We just need to allow 3-6 kids a year that couldn't enroll at ND otherwise. Both academics and future championships can be achieved by allowing this to happen. If something along the lines of the aforementioned doesn't happen, we will all have the pleasure of reading your well researched value of a Notre Dame degree 20 years from now too. I would just rather have it be with a championship or 3 to go along with it.
Click to expand...

Everyone can clearly read your previous posts and see that you said those things, and here you are going in circles again. You have now both said that a) You know they make exceptions b) wish they would make 3-6 exceptions per year (which they do... and, well... See A) and c) you don't think they should make exceptions if they can't cut it once they sign.

You literally make zero sense.
 
TheTurningPoint

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A couple of things.

1. As I have explained a few times in these circumstances....The NCAA has a sliding scale for GPA vs SAT/ACT scores. Meaning if you have a lower GPA, you need a higher SAT/ACT score to pass the NCAA clearinghouse. Don't believe me? CLICK

2. This could be the reason Bo would need to take the ACT again. If his gpa slide, then he would need a higher test score. Isaiah McKenzie ring a bell?

3. Bo's high school could play into this. There are a multitude of scernarios that could occur within high school programs. There are cases that schools lie on transcripts, have grades adjusted, add classes that the student hasn't taken, etc. Notre Dame is extremely cautious in how they go about acceptance for student athletes. Tee Shepard, not Notre Dame's fault. Nile Sykes, not Notre Dame's fault. Notre Dame only has so much they can do. They can't take tests, classes or send over their own transcripts for kids.

4. Exceptions. I feel like if a kid can't get in then you hear the "Notre Dame doesn't give enough exceptions" crowd come out full force. Let me ask you...Arahop what do you think an exception is? Please define it. I am just curious as to what you would classify an exception. Would you call a kid with a 18 ACT and qualifying GPA an exception? Would you call a kid with a 23 ACT and a qualifying GPA an exception? The majority of non-student athletes need a 30+ ACT to get into Notre Dame. Not in relation to you Arahop, but I feel that its just an excuse for most because it sounds nice.

5. Exceptions Part II - People complain about Notre Dame not being able to keep kids in school once they get to school. Why would BK or Notre Dame in general, continue to recruit borderline kids when they can't make through a year at Notre Dame before transferring to another school because of academics, trouble or attitude? One would think these "exceptions" people talk of make up the majority of the kids that end up transferring out because of academics, trouble or attitude. So, why would you go above and beyond to get these 'high risk' kids on campus and have it only to blow up in your face less than a year later when you could have taken a "3-star" athlete who has the same ceiling once developed?

6. My personal opinion is that there are plenty of kids out there that can are elite talents and would fit into the Notre Dame culture. Does the entire class have to fit? Hell no. There are tons of great stories about kids going against the grain and leave Notre Dame with their life changed. I am just saying that Notre Dame doesnt have to change anything they are doing to win a National Title. Will it take longer at Notre Dame to accomplish that the right way? Yes. Why? Because you aren't going to have quality depth across the board until the program is established. BK has done that. Notre Dame is almost at the point where they have quality depth across the board. The few positions that don't, have guys coming in the 2015 class that could fill that. Every team is going to have weaknesses, so that is why I am not concerned about recruiting. Notre Dame is regular in the Top 10 classes each February.

7. Arahop - You statements about admissions, I couldnt disagree more. The student and high school have to live up to their end of the deal too. What do you want ND to say when they sign a kid, but then doesn't do work his last semester of college? (not saying Bo did this). I think you would be shocked at just how lenient admissions is when it comes to student-athletes. Hell, they let Golson back in. They are letting KeiVarae back in. They let Davaris back in and probably would have let him back in for a SECOND time.

8. Rant Over.
 
BobbyMac

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Ive asked this question before without anyone answering... How many of the 85 scholarship football players currently on the team would have been accepted as a regular student?

.
 
B

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NDCrusader said:
Ive asked this question before without anyone answering... How many of the 85 scholarship football players currently on the team would have been accepted as a regular student?

.
Click to expand...

How many could answer it? None of us here are in admissions.

I would guess less than 2% of them.
 
zelezo vlk

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Schmidt. And uh, I'm not sure. Maybe Redfield? That's based completely on his difficult majors and desire to work for the CIA.
 
P

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Elmer based on grades and test scores. I'd assume Tillery with AA factored in would gain admission.
 
zelezo vlk

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Buster Bluth said:
Schmidt was a preferred walk-on, so even he got help. No?
Click to expand...
I thought they were still expected to gain admission themselves? I could be wrong; I haven't looked into it much more than just reading the articles about Schmidt.
 
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PerthDomer

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PWOs get their applications flagged. They get leeway but not general football player leeway.
 
kmoose

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NDCrusader said:
Ive asked this question before without anyone answering... How many of the 85 scholarship football players currently on the team would have been accepted as a regular student?

.
Click to expand...

Joe Schmidt for certain. Beyond that....... not sure.
 
House16

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zelezo vlk said:
Schmidt. And uh, I'm not sure. Maybe Redfield? That's based completely on his difficult majors and desire to work for the CIA.
Click to expand...

Friend says he's by far the least smart/motivated kid in the Chinese major, tifwiw
 
House16

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NDCrusader said:
Ive asked this question before without anyone answering... How many of the 85 scholarship football players currently on the team would have been accepted as a regular student?

.
Click to expand...

Maybe a completely pointless conversation to have, but I'm pretty sure that almost every year the answer is 0/85. So many geniuses rejected from ND every year.
 
BobbyMac

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Ok... Is there a thread that outlines this board's definition of an exception as it pertains to ND football? As the former compliance officer for a Div I basketball program, I'll be honest... without some metrics, I have no idea what the moving defi ition of exception is when trying to follow along in these threads mostly because the majority of posters are completely clueless.

.
 
NDinL.A.

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NDCrusader said:
Ok... Is there a thread that outlines this board's definition of an exception as it pertains to ND football? As the former compliance officer for a Div I basketball program, I'll be honest... without some metrics, I have no idea what the moving defi ition of exception is when trying to follow along in these threads mostly because the majority of posters are completely clueless.

.
Click to expand...

You're saying you're clueless about it, and then you're bagging on members for also being clueless about it? Maybe that's the reason no one answered your question.

There is a member of this site who is a friend to many on here, who has many contacts very close to the program. He knows there are exceptions on this team...many exceptions. I've never asked what the exact parameters are, nor do I care to know. But they are on the team, of that I have no doubt.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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IrishTP said:
A couple of things.

1. As I have explained a few times in these circumstances....The NCAA has a sliding scale for GPA vs SAT/ACT scores. Meaning if you have a lower GPA, you need a higher SAT/ACT score to pass the NCAA clearinghouse. Don't believe me? CLICK

2. This could be the reason Bo would need to take the ACT again. If his gpa slide, then he would need a higher test score. Isaiah McKenzie ring a bell?

3. Bo's high school could play into this. There are a multitude of scernarios that could occur within high school programs. There are cases that schools lie on transcripts, have grades adjusted, add classes that the student hasn't taken, etc. Notre Dame is extremely cautious in how they go about acceptance for student athletes. Tee Shepard, not Notre Dame's fault. Nile Sykes, not Notre Dame's fault. Notre Dame only has so much they can do. They can't take tests, classes or send over their own transcripts for kids.

4. Exceptions. I feel like if a kid can't get in then you hear the "Notre Dame doesn't give enough exceptions" crowd come out full force. Let me ask you...Arahop what do you think an exception is? Please define it. I am just curious as to what you would classify an exception. Would you call a kid with a 18 ACT and qualifying GPA an exception? Would you call a kid with a 23 ACT and a qualifying GPA an exception? The majority of non-student athletes need a 30+ ACT to get into Notre Dame. Not in relation to you Arahop, but I feel that its just an excuse for most because it sounds nice.

5. Exceptions Part II - People complain about Notre Dame not being able to keep kids in school once they get to school. Why would BK or Notre Dame in general, continue to recruit borderline kids when they can't make through a year at Notre Dame before transferring to another school because of academics, trouble or attitude? One would think these "exceptions" people talk of make up the majority of the kids that end up transferring out because of academics, trouble or attitude. So, why would you go above and beyond to get these 'high risk' kids on campus and have it only to blow up in your face less than a year later when you could have taken a "3-star" athlete who has the same ceiling once developed?

6. My personal opinion is that there are plenty of kids out there that can are elite talents and would fit into the Notre Dame culture. Does the entire class have to fit? Hell no. There are tons of great stories about kids going against the grain and leave Notre Dame with their life changed. I am just saying that Notre Dame doesnt have to change anything they are doing to win a National Title. Will it take longer at Notre Dame to accomplish that the right way? Yes. Why? Because you aren't going to have quality depth across the board until the program is established. BK has done that. Notre Dame is almost at the point where they have quality depth across the board. The few positions that don't, have guys coming in the 2015 class that could fill that. Every team is going to have weaknesses, so that is why I am not concerned about recruiting. Notre Dame is regular in the Top 10 classes each February.

7. Arahop - You statements about admissions, I couldnt disagree more. The student and high school have to live up to their end of the deal too. What do you want ND to say when they sign a kid, but then doesn't do work his last semester of college? (not saying Bo did this). I think you would be shocked at just how lenient admissions is when it comes to student-athletes. Hell, they let Golson back in. They are letting KeiVarae back in. They let Davaris back in and probably would have let him back in for a SECOND time.

8. Rant Over.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, this post is more than a cut above.

TP consistently gives an inside view of what is going on in college football.

Most fans miss the following :

  • ND's problems the last couple of years have less to do with the "kind of recruit", than other issues, and this fall we will have a chance to see how effectively they have been addressed.
  • Most kids that play football at a D1 level, have to put their all into it. Talent takes you only so far. Beyond high school it becomes a matter of talent and an insane amount of hard work. So prediction of college admission and student-athlete's performance cannot be based upon the fallacy that football players are "dumb." The kind of student that goes to ND and thrives may not be that much "smarter" than the student-athlete. But they put their insane, hard work into the books, and don't need to spend between twenty and forty hours working on some other endeavor.
  • Some kids just want to be kids. They just aren't to the level of maturity (in more than on way) to make things work.

arahop said:
Respect? Yeah I don't like being told to root for another team.
Click to expand...

Other posters have told you that you make no sense whatsoever. But only a pedantic putz would attack and irritate another poster, then use his carefully metered response as a justification for bad behavior!
 
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Old Man Mike

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.... what a miserable thread for a football athlete. The trolls and egos are heavy in this one. How about lets cross our fingers and say: Gee! I never realized it before but EVERYONE on IE is a genius and right all the time, and then turn the page.
 
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This thread turned into a place for a$$holes to trash the intelligence of student athletes. It's embarrassing to see this. I hope none of you are alums like I am.
 
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