'15 FL ATH Dexter Williams (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[phork]

Kids need to commit and sign to a school that fits their values, not to coaches. The nature of the business is too dynamic and free flowing.

 

[Luckylucci]

Alford $hit on this kid. I hope he understands that the opportunity Alford sold him is real, it sucks that he got bailed on, but glad that he is sticking with us.

I think it bullshit when other schools do this, I'm not giving Alford a pass here.

I agree Wooly, completely agree.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Alford $hit on this kid. I hope he understands that the opportunity Alford sold him is real, it sucks that he got bailed on, but glad that he is sticking with us.

I think it bullshit when other schools do this, I'm not giving Alford a pass here.

I really disagree with this. Alford did his job, which was to recruit players to ND, up until he left. Unless he was over-the-top selling only his relationship and not the school and program, I think he handled it the only way he could.

Any coach that ever leaves one job for another is necessarily leaving guys he recruited.

 

[stlnd01]

I really disagree with this. Alford did his job, which was to recruit players to ND, up until he left. Unless he was over-the-top selling only his relationship and not the school and program, I think he handled it the only way he could.

Any coach that ever leaves one job for another is necessarily leaving guys he recruited.

Also, Alford was not "on the market" in the weeks leading up to Signing Day. Not after he didn't get the CSU job anyway. Then Ohio State's running backs coach left for a job with the Bears, announced on Signing Day or the day after. Then OSU went after Alford to replace him.
Alford played hard til the whistle for us and - while I get why Dexter Williams might be pissed - that's really all you can ask for.

 

[ThePiombino]

Bottom line- Williams got hosed by the situation, but is making the right, mature decision by sticking around. I think that likely suggests Alford did a GREAT job of selling the school to him. Hard to be mad at the guy for that much.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How did Williams get hosed? Have we hired a "for-shiit" running back coach? Maybe we will get a better one. Because as far as I can see the QB position for having a dedicated coach for the first year, and the RB position for having more talent than in many past years, both took a step backward. Objectively, looking at the performance of EG and Cam McDaniel alone, most staffs would have a shakeup on that basis alone, (let alone the rb's inability to protect the qb.)

And to put all the quasi apple to oranges lines of mis-logic to bed, there is a difference between a salesman changing jobs, and management suppressing information to the customers about their sales and support staff. Urban knew what was happening for sure and he suppressed it; we know this because of reports and because of the way NFL teams conduct business with prospective coaches.

For example, BVG may have interviews with Oakland, but with Kelly's blessing. But since nothing more than an interview (at most) could have happened, Kelly kept the information close, and may have in fact contacted, oh say Brady Hoke.

Kelly may have known Cook was going and had Lyght already in his sights.

Kelly may have already had a conversation with LaFleur, and with Quinn for that matter.

The last two or three could have resulted in the signing day comment, "Look right now we have nine coaches and we will have nine coaches."

I think in Kelly's case nothing was in stone up to signing day, except the morning of when Kelly called the Winbush family about LaFleur. My point is, nothing is as black and white as we like to think.

But as far as Kelly goes, his integrity is pretty much in the right place, whatever else you want to say. In the case of Urban, not so much!

 

[Grahambo]

Also, Alford was not "on the market" in the weeks leading up to Signing Day. Not after he didn't get the CSU job anyway. Then Ohio State's running backs coach left for a job with the Bears, announced on Signing Day or the day after. Then OSU went after Alford to replace him.

Alford played hard til the whistle for us and - while I get why Dexter Williams might be pissed - that's really all you can ask for.

Coaches are always on the market. They operate in a year to year basis no matter the contract.

 

[kmoose]

If we were talking about buying stocks, and someone bought a stock strictly because they liked the CEO of the company; then that CEO left for a better opportunity elsewhere? We wouldn't be talking about how the shareholder got screwed.

 

[Cackalacky]

If we were talking about buying stocks, and someone bought a stock strictly because they liked the CEO of the company; then that CEO left for a better opportunity elsewhere? We wouldn't be talking about how the shareholder got screwed.

Stockholders dont have personal relationships with the CEO. But this is why you commit to the school not coaches.

 

[yankeeND]

Personally I don't like the practice either, but I also think that the kids need to understand from jump street that their position coaches could leave before, while, and after they are at said school. It really brings the argument to life about choosing the school and not the coaches. You just never know what one year will bring to the next. I truly do feel for them because of the relationships that are made and the points that they are sold on, but if the kid is just going to x school to jump to the NFL it is really no different. These people use each other to achieve their own personal goals so I do not fault a coach for taking another job to further their own careers. Choose a school because you love the school, want a degree, and you will be happy there for 3-5 years. Nothing more, and nothing less.

 

[IrishLion]

If we were talking about buying stocks, and someone bought a stock strictly because they liked the CEO of the company; then that CEO left for a better opportunity elsewhere? We wouldn't be talking about how the shareholder got screwed.

But we don't know that Dexter committed strictly because of Alford. If he committed strictly because of Alford, then he has every right to be questioning things.... but I don't think that's what happened. Alford did what he always does, and what Greg Bryant is now such a great ambassador of: get out of Florida, make the tough decision, and be proud of what you are about to accomplish over the next 4 years, taking the road less travelled.

 

[Huntr]

Wooly's right. We bag on coaches at other programs for being similarly "career-oriented." This is probably best for Alford, but it comes at the expense of recruits who thought they were building a relationship with someone who would be with them and guide them and help them successfully get through an important period in their life.

Saying otherwise is simply ignoring the realities of recruiting where relationships are what really cause a kid to sign somewhere. If the relationship between recruiters and recruits was so unimportant, you'd only need to contact a kid once and tell them the high points of coming to your school.

 

[IrishLion]

Wooly's right. We bag on coaches at other programs for being similarly "career-oriented." This is probably best for Alford, but it comes at the expense of recruits who thought they were building a relationship with someone who would be with them and guide them and help them successfully get through an important period in their life.

Saying otherwise is simply ignoring the realities of recruiting where relationships are what really cause a kid to sign somewhere. If the relationship between recruiters and recruits was so unimportant, you'd only need to contact a kid once and tell them the high points of coming to your school.

So what's the correct answer for a coach seeking upward mobility that he isn't getting at his current job? Bail immediately after the regular season? That might be the best answer, but that's simply not realistic based on how the coaching carousel works.

Was Alford supposed to say "no thanks" for a chance to expand his resume in one of the best ways possible?

 

[Huntr]

So what's the correct answer for a coach seeking upward mobility that he isn't getting at his current job? Bail immediately after the regular season? That might be the best answer, but that's simply not realistic based on how the coaching carousel works.

Was Alford supposed to say "no thanks" for a chance to expand his resume in one the best ways possible?

Man, I don't really know if you can avoid these situations in the current framework. IMO, the whole recruiting and signing game needs to be drastically changed and should protect kids better. Less contact from college coaches and reps, more freedom to sign when and where they want, easier to get out of a scholarship and go to another program. I think it needs big changes. JMO, tho'...

 

[kmoose]

But we don't know that Dexter committed strictly because of Alford. If he committed strictly because of Alford, then he has every right to be questioning things.... but I don't think that's what happened. Alford did what he always does, and what Greg Bryant is now such a great ambassador of: get out of Florida, make the tough decision, and be proud of what you are about to accomplish over the next 4 years, taking the road less travelled.

That's the whole point; if an investor invests in a bad company because he likes the CEO, and the CEO leaves causing the stock price to tank; no one feels sorry for the investor because it's considered stupid to invest in a company because of one person. It's pretty common knowledge that these kids should be "investing" in the University, not the coach. If they choose to go against that, then no one should feel sorry for them if they lose.

 

[IrishLion]

That's the whole point; if an investor invests in a bad company because he likes the CEO, and the CEO leaves causing the stock price to tank; no one feels sorry for the investor because it's considered stupid to invest in a company because of one person. It's pretty common knowledge that these kids should be "investing" in the University, not the coach. If they choose to go against that, then no one should feel sorry for them if they lose.

My apologies; we were making the same point. I misread your last sentence in the OP. I thought you saying Dexter got screwed, but I missed the key "we wouldn't be talking about how the stockholder got screwed."

 

[ThePiombino]

If we were talking about buying stocks, and someone bought a stock strictly because they liked the CEO of the company; then that CEO left for a better opportunity elsewhere? We wouldn't be talking about how the shareholder got screwed.

Terrible analogy. Why do people insist on comparing this situation to anything? It's relatively unique. It's college and Dexter is a young adult who had developed a father/son-like with relationship with someone he thought would be there AT LEAST for his freshman season. This has nothing to do with CEOs, corps, or the stocks thereof.

 

[Fbolt]

Crapping on Alford, who many on this board, myself included, have had a bromance with over the years is in very, very, poor taste. He clearly felt this was what was needed to enhance his resume for higher opportunities. So, would you deny him this?

Personally, I don't care if he had the offer for weeks prior to NLI day. Apparently he worked his hardest up until the day he left. That's all I would ask of anyone-in any position. That's what I believe Alford did. If he didn't, he would not have been able to pull Dexter into the fold. For that, I'm appreciative.

IDK this, but I also imagine based on what little I know, that Alford sold ND-not his relationship with Dexter.

I wish both the best.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I believe that Dexter Williams is going to RAPIDLY find out that this staff is FILLED with great guys who are upstanding men, and that the same is true of the entire team, athletic department, and university.

This "social catastrophe" will last about a week or less during summer practice.

As to Coach Alford: thanks for all the excellent years and the loyalty right up to the end. I hope the shift works out for you.

As to Urban Meyer: can't blame you but screw you anyway.

 

[kmoose]

Terrible analogy. Why do people insist on comparing this situation to anything? It's relatively unique. It's college and Dexter is a young adult who had developed a father/son-like with relationship with someone he thought would be there AT LEAST for his freshman season. This has nothing to do with CEOs, corps, or the stocks thereof.

How the hell would you know the extent of the relationship that they developed? What a terrible analogy. Why do people always assume that they know exactly how some 18 year old kid feels about some 40-50-60-some year old coach? Even when they say "He's like a father to me", how do you know that is the case, and they are not just saying what they think people want to hear?

 

[OCIrish]

I don't know if this applies to most people who are upset with Tony Alford or not, but, I wouldn't be so fucking irritated about the whole situation had it be most anybody else besides Urban Meyer......the guy is a first rate lying piece of shit, who has no place in college athletics......none. Tony Alford who preached doing something outside of your comfort zone, do something more challenging in life......come to ND, etc, etc, etc......bullshit, you don't go to the fucking Ohio State University to challenge yourself, he took the easy road, to me....maybe he should try practicing what he was preaching to recruits.

 

[NDBoiler]

I don't know if this applies to most people who are upset with Tony Alford or not, but, I wouldn't be so fucking irritated about the whole situation had it be most anybody else besides Urban Meyer......the guy is a first rate lying piece of shit, who has no place in college athletics......none. Tony Alford who preached doing something outside of your comfort zone, do something more challenging in life......come to ND, etc, etc, etc......bullshit, you don't go to the fucking Ohio State University to challenge yourself, he took the easy road, to me....maybe he should try practicing what he was preaching to recruits.

I don't think you're seeing the big picture here. In all likelihood he took the OSU job to give himself a strengthened resume for a potential HC job in the future. Besides, even if that's not the case, his message was for young men who haven't accomplished anything in life yet. Alford's personal experience doesn't necessarily need to follow that as he is in a completely different stage in life than a high school senior. It sounds like your dislike for Urban Meyer is affecting your view of the situation too.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Crapping on Alford, who many on this board, myself included, have had a bromance with over the years is in very, very, poor taste. He clearly felt this was what was needed to enhance his resume for higher opportunities. So, would you deny him this?

Personally, I don't care if he had the offer for weeks prior to NLI day. Apparently he worked his hardest up until the day he left. That's all I would ask of anyone-in any position. That's what I believe Alford did. If he didn't, he would not have been able to pull Dexter into the fold. For that, I'm appreciative.

IDK this, but I also imagine based on what little I know, that Alford sold ND-not his relationship with Dexter.

I wish both the best.

Really well stated.

 

[NDohio]

I am really curious on how those that are all up in arms about this situation would have had TA react to this.

He obviously wants to become a head coach someday and this promotion will help put him in the position to achieve that. Should he have said no because it would hurt the feelings of Dexter?

 

[ThePiombino]

How the hell would you know the extent of the relationship that they developed? What a terrible analogy. Why do people always assume that they know exactly how some 18 year old kid feels about some 40-50-60-some year old coach? Even when they say "He's like a father to me", how do you know that is the case, and they are not just saying what they think people want to hear?

His words, jackass. If we can't put stock in words directly from the source's mouth then I'm pretty sure your uninformed opinion means even less. But keep on keeping on.

 

[OCIrish]

I don't think you're seeing the big picture here. In all likelihood he took the OSU job to give himself a strengthened resume for a potential HC job in the future. Besides, even if that's not the case, his message was for young men who haven't accomplished anything in life yet. Alford's personal experience doesn't necessarily need to follow that as he is in a completely different stage in life than a high school senior. It sounds like your dislike for Urban Meyer is affecting your view of the situation too.

If you can't believe what you're selling these kids, then why lie to them????? Alford isn't being challenged by going to OSU......I'm sorry, but he isnt!!!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

If you can't believe what you're selling these kids, then why lie to them????? Alford isn't being challenged by going to OSU......I'm sorry, but he isnt!!!

Who says he was lying? He is trying to provide for his family and achieve his career goals. Look at NDinLA's post from earlier. He has every right to seek his career goals and doesn't owe the Notre Dame fan base anything that he hasn't already given us. Wish him well and move on.

 

[OCIrish]

Did you read my post not to far back......had this not been OSU, and some place else, it would be different. Alford sells these kids on challenging oneself, and going outside ones comfort level, and he does the exact opposite by taking the same job at a football factoey......to me, that's lying to a kid.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Did you read my post not to far back......had this not been OSU, and some place else, it would be different. Alford sells these kids on challenging oneself, and going outside ones comfort level, and he does the exact opposite by taking the same job at a football factoey......to me, that's lying to a kid.

Not quite the same job. He was named an Assitant Head Coach there in addition to RB coach. And that looks better on a resume than RB coach & recruiting coordinator. He has aspirations to be a head coach, and this move helps him towards this goal.

 

[Nick Setta]

Ohio State has rings we don't. A kid wants to win he goes to a winner and not us frankly.