Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[jerboski]

Nothing against those guys, but that is so true.

Bobby Bowden used to say that every championship team needs one or two guys who grew up without a mailbox. And we all know exactly what he means by that -- the problem is that those guys tend not to gravitate to (or be eligible for) ND.

Agree, I cant think of one nasty type player on offense or defense. That is a problem, we are too nice and cute

 

[TDHeysus]

please lord, let this thread die a quick death from this point forward.

 

[IRISH in MT]

Nothing against those guys, but that is so true.

Bobby Bowden used to say that every championship team needs one or two guys who grew up without a mailbox. And we all know exactly what he means by that -- the problem is that those guys tend not to gravitate to (or be eligible for) ND.

Nasty players in the trenches win ball games. More players like Zorich, Aaron Lynch, Trevor Laws, etc. Dudes with jailhouse tats, mohawks, dreads, bad dental, scars, etc. The problem as you mentioned is academic eligibility and off field issues that come with those types. I love them on 4th and short and goalline though. You just know they will dig in, hold ground, or disrupt.

 

[ulukinatme]

I really cringe to think who we would possibly replace Kelly with at this point. That's not saying Kelly is one of the Top 5 coaches in the country, but I seriously doubt there's anyone better out there at this time that would come to ND.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Nasty players in the trenches win ball games. More players like Zorich, Aaron Lynch, Trevor Laws, etc. Dudes with jailhouse tats, mohawks, dreads, bad dental, scars, etc. The problem as you mentioned is academic eligibility and off field issues that come with those types. I love them on 4th and short and goalline though. You just know they will dig in, hold ground, or disrupt.

Did somebody say goal line stand?

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But we need more prison tats, right?

 

[dublinirish]

Tommy Rees got arrested, that's all i'm saying

 

[Grahambo]

Brian Kelly is a fucking great coach. Top 5.

No italics.

 

[IRISH in MT]

Did somebody say goal line stand?

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But we need more prison tats, right?

YEP!!! Both of those stands happened 2 years ago.

 

[IrishinSyria]

YEP!!! Both of those stands happened 2 years ago.

Epic goal line stands were definitely not our thing this year.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

YEP!!! Both of those stands happened 2 years ago.

For a Brian Kelly coached team.

 

[IrishinSyria]

For a Brian Kelly coached team.

On a Longo designed weight program. It's a miracle they didn't get blown into the back of the end zone.

 

[chicago51]

People can blame BK all they want, everyone can have an opinion. I think the real problem though is that the vbuck inflation at IE has gotten way way way out of control! I think over last year or to it has gotten out of control and that is causing bad mojo for ND athletics cross the board.

 

[anarin]

Would you rather have...

or

easy choice!!!

( I can do it to!)

 

[GoldenDomer]

Would you rather have...

or

easy choice!!!

( I can do it to!)

Is Arnold a strength coach somewhere getting better results than Longo!? Add another name to the list!!

 

[GoldenDomer]

We had a goal line stand once, therefore no need to get rid of Kelly.

 

[Rocket89]

We had a goal line stand once, therefore no need to get rid of Kelly.

How dare anyone point to actual football plays instead of trashing the S&C program.

But hey, Longo uploaded a super hyped up YouTube video for '12 Stanford week and the players wore loads of scary eye-black too. I have it on good word that we're going back to that plan again so guess what S&C problems solved.

 

[GoldenDomer]

How dare anyone point to actual football plays instead of trashing the S&C program.

But hey, Longo uploaded a super hyped up YouTube video for '12 Stanford week and the players wore loads of scary eye-black too. I have it on good word that we're going back to that plan again so guess what S&C problems solved.

 

[NDinL.A.]

We had a goal line stand once, therefore no need to get rid of Kelly.

The facepalm should be directed towards you for thinking anyone came to that conclusion based on a few goal line stands.

 

[Bishop2b5]

You don't have to have thugs and criminals on your team to get players who are physical and play with a mean, tough-ass, knock your butt in the dirt attitude. Some of the toughest, most physical players in CFB and NFL history were smart, nice guys off the field. They just knew how to bring it once the helmets were strapped on.

 

[GoldenDomer]

The facepalm should be directed towards you for thinking anyone came to that conclusion based on a few goal line stands.

The goal line stand posts were a response to the criticism of our guys not having toughness.

I was face palming the fact that people are using one series of plays to counter a fact that has played out over and over again.

 

[NDinL.A.]

The goal line stand posts were a response to the criticism of our guys not having toughness.

I was face palming the fact that people are using one series of plays to counter a fact that has played out over and over again.

And you and others are using a sweeping generalization that not one of Kelly's players have been tough, which is absolutely ridiculous. You think a team could go 12-0 and beat up a tough team like Stanford with a bunch of softies??? You think a team with a bunch of pussies could thrice beat a team like Michigan State, who has beat up almost every team they face and have turned themselves into a national program based almost exclusively on toughness? Really?

So Tuitt, Kapron, Motta, Jaylon, Zack Martin, Chris Watt, Trumbetti, Day, Schmidt, Morgan, Tranquill playing an entire half on a torn ACL, Eifert, Rochelle, Kona, etc etc etc...ALL softies, all pussies? Did you sleep through the 2012 season? Through the Michigan State and USC games in 2013? Through the FSU game this year? Where were these posts after Redfield knocked Gardner's head off after Shumate's pick? Where were these posts after we were robbed against FSU? So they were tough then and now they are pussies?

The team has a LOT of flaws, and as a whole, did not display mental toughness late in the year, especially against USC. And I would definitely like to a see more nasty as an entire team on a consistent basis. That has to happen. But to generalize that ALL players during the Kelly era except Manti were softies, which is what you and several others in this thread have done, is a fucking joke. So yeah, I'm going to stick to my facepalm comment.

 

[GoldenDomer]

And you and others are using a sweeping generalization that not one of Kelly's players have been tough, which is absolutely ridiculous. You think a team could go 12-0 and beat up a tough team like Stanford with a bunch of softies??? You think a team with a bunch of pussies could thrice beat a team like Michigan State, who has beat up almost every team they face and have turned themselves into a national program based almost exclusively on toughness? Really?

So Tuitt, Kapron, Motta, Jaylon, Zack Martin, Chris Watt, Trumbetti, Day, Schmidt, Morgan, Tranquill playing an entire half on a torn ACL, Eifert, Rochelle, Kona, etc...ALL softies, all pussies?

The team has a LOT of flaws, and as a whole, did not display mental toughness late in the year, especially against USC. But to generalize that all players during the Kelly era except Manti were softies is a fucking joke. So yeah, I'm going to stick to my facepalm comment.

I would probably have to go back and rewatch those games. Stanford, sure. Michigan state, ehh. We sure as hell didn't "beat them up" in 2013, and in the 2012 game against them, the team was rallying around Manti's "dead girlfriend".

We have had tough guys come through the program, so has every program in the nation. There is a difference between a physically tough dude who can take a beating, and someone who has the mental fortitude and attitude to dominate his opponent for 60 minutes, and as Nick Saban says, "make his ass quit."

The team I'm begging for doesn't have leaders like Golson who throw 3 picks and walk off the field like nothing happened. It's lead by competitors like Zaire who are in tears when they fuck up a hold to lose on Senior Day, even though the starter is the one who lost the game for the previous 59 minutes.

The result I'm looking for is not people losing their jobs. I just wish we put higher stock in creating hungry kids who are afraid of and embarrassed by failure.

 

[WestCoast]

as Nick Saban says, "make his ass quit."

Does he own a Chinese food buffet I went to one time? Cause that's what that food did to me. Explosive. It wasn't pretty.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I would probably have to go back and rewatch those games. Stanford, sure. Michigan state, ehh. We sure as hell didn't "beat them up" in 2013, and in the 2012 game against them, the team was rallying around Manti's "dead girlfriend".

We have had tough guys come through the program, so has every program in the nation. There is a difference between a physically tough dude who can take a beating, and someone who has the mental fortitude and attitude to dominate his opponent for 60 minutes, and as Nick Saban says, "make his ass quit."

The team I'm begging for doesn't have leaders like Golson who throw 3 picks and walk off the field like nothing happened. It's lead by competitors like Zaire who are in tears when they fuck up a hold to lose on Senior Day, even though the starter is the one who lost the game for the previous 59 minutes.

The result I'm looking for is not people losing their jobs. I just wish we put higher stock in creating hungry kids who are afraid of and embarrassed by failure.

First off, you're downplaying games where we physically outmanned teams because it doesn't fit your agenda. There have been SEVERAL teams that have called ND tough, after playing them, and it was that 2012 team that started that off. Again, answer this: how can a team go 12-0 with a bunch of softies?

Second, I don't disagree with a lot of what you wrote. But that wasn't my point at all. My point is, saying that everyone in the BK era (other than Manti) is a pussy, and ignoring all the players I mentioned, is a fucking joke. And nothing you said has countered that. I mean, Tranquill played an entire game on a torn ACL, and he's a pussy? Sheldon Day is soft? Zack Martin and Chris Watt were soft? Yeah, Martin's so soft he might be an all-pro as a rookie, but OK. These crazy generalizations that are thrown out by pissed off fans...that's the line of thinking I can't get with.

 

[kmoose]

We have had tough guys come through the program, so has every program in the nation. There is a difference between a physically tough dude who can take a beating, and someone who has the mental fortitude and attitude to dominate his opponent for 60 minutes, and as Nick Saban says, "make his ass quit."

The team I'm begging for doesn't have leaders like Golson who throw 3 picks and walk off the field like nothing happened. It's lead by competitors like Zaire who are in tears when they fuck up a hold to lose on Senior Day, even though the starter is the one who lost the game for the previous 59 minutes.

So which is it? Do you want tough guys? Or do you want crybabies?

 

[GoldenDomer]

First off, you're downplaying games where we physically outmanned teams because it doesn't fit your agenda. There have been SEVERAL teams that have called ND tough, after playing them, and it was that 2012 team that started that off. Again, answer this: how can a team go 12-0 with a bunch of softies?

Second, I don't disagree with a lot of what you wrote. But that wasn't my point at all. My point is, saying that everyone in the BK era (other than Manti) is a pussy, and ignoring all the players I mentioned, is a fucking joke. And nothing you said has countered that. I mean, Tranquill played an entire game on a torn ACL, and he's a pussy? Sheldon Day is soft? Zack Martin and Chris Watt were soft? Yeah, Martin's so soft he might be an all-pro as a rookie, but OK. These crazy generalizations that are thrown out by pissed off fans...that's the line of thinking I can't get with.

I actually did address that. I stated that there has been tough guys, like every program, but we are not tough enough as whole to compete with the big boys.

As for 2012, how impressive were those 12 wins?

I won't address the "gimme" games, but even most of those were a lot closer than they should have been.

Michigan State was 7-6, lost to every good team they played.
Michigan was an ehhh 8-5 Big 10 team.
Stanford was the signature win. Helluva night.
Oklahoma was also a good win, but Texas A&M dismantled them.

Then Bama happened.

12-0 is an accomplishment, I acknowledge that. The staff did a good job of that. We weren't in Bama's league. I can't put that on any one person. In hindsight, we probably were the 5th or 6th best team in the country.

The thing is, I have stated that my problem is that outside of 2012, we haven't done a damn thing under Kelly.

 

[GoldenDomer]

So which is it? Do you want tough guys? Or do you want crybabies?

Don't know whether to laugh or reply here...

I guess you could say I want passionate competitors that want nothing more than to see their team win a national championship.

Does Tebow crying after the SEC Championship throw his toughness out the window?

I hope you forgot italics.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I actually did address that. I stated that there has been tough guys, like every program, but we are not tough enough as whole to compete with the big boys.

As for 2012, how impressive were those 12 wins?

I won't address the "gimme" games, but even most of those were a lot closer than they should have been.

Michigan State was 7-6, lost to every good team they played.
Michigan was an ehhh 8-5 Big 10 team.
Stanford was the signature win. Helluva night.
Oklahoma was also a good win, but Texas A&M dismantled them.

Then Bama happened.

12-0 is an accomplishment, I acknowledge that. The staff did a good job of that. We weren't in Bama's league. I can't put that on any one person. In hindsight, we probably were the 5th or 6th best team in the country.

The thing is, I have stated that my problem is that outside of 2012, we haven't done a damn thing under Kelly.

I keep saying that in this thread I disagree with the premise that ND has no tough players and that the only tough player BK has had was Manti Te'o. THAT is what I completely disagree with.

I have no idea why you are bringing all this other stuff into it, but we're talking in circles here. Either you're not understanding what I mean, or you disagree with me and think that every player sans Manti is/was soft. Either way, have a good one.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I keep saying that in this thread I disagree with the premise that ND has no tough players and that the only tough player BK has had was Manti Te'o. THAT is what I completely disagree with.

I have no idea why you are bringing all this other stuff into it, but we're talking in circles here. Either you're not understanding what I mean, or you disagree with me and think that every player sans Manti is/was soft. Either way, have a good one.

If that is the one point you want to discuss, you're talking to the wrong person because somebody else made the post about him being our baddest dude.

 

[koonja]

'Tough guys' is subjective, but every team in the country has some on their team, including ND. We just don't have that many right now. You need a team of them, a culture of toughness.