We are slow, Longo must go?

[IrishJayhawk]

You keep pointing to those two games...OU isn't the OU of old. They only beat one ranked team last year, UT (who was terrible).

And Stanford has been on fire. I'll give you that. I admire their program.

We've had very comparable recruiting to Oklahoma in the last 5 years.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I would say that this portion of your statement ties into what I was stating earlier that time is a factor in strength and conditioning. Being that time is limited, it is probably very hard to increase an individuals speed and/or quickness. I do know that it is fairly evident that speed can be increased through training. Granted you are not going to take a lower tier athlete, and turn them into an olympic sprinter. This is what I believe Mike Joseph was referring to, when stating kids are either fast or they are not.

I have seen individuals increase their 40 time by .3 through strength and development, coupled with running technique. The problem with this is that speed on the field has a ton to do with reaction time, as you are constantly reacting to a play and moving towards it. This is why it is hard to see speed translate to the field, because most peoples reaction time can only be improved upon 10 to 20%. Average reaction time is .3 seconds, which would mean an increase would be highly unnoticeable.

One of my best friends is a S/C coach here in Bama and is regarded as one of the best in the state for high school football. It has become an increasing area of emphasis here and the results have shown in the last decade. They can't make a person faster but they can work with position coaches to develop great training programs that compliment what you are trying to accomplish. My friend is a wizard at it and he is the second highest paid coach on a staff of 12 coaches... just behind the HC.

 

[koonja]

I think what you are not getting is that ND football players have a **** ton more responsibility that most other schools. Just go and watch "Strong and True." Our guys have an academic adviser harassing them every day on their assignments and makes sure they are on track. I see tweets by our ND football players all the time talking about the level of school work they have to do (unlike playin at skool). They obviously don't have time to take weightlifting 400 and Golf 350 like Purdue's QB.

ND is different and special, and guys come here for that. If you (them) can't handle it, then IDK what to tell anyone, fan or player. No S/C coach can change that other than maximize their time while they are together.

You should re-read IrishLax's post that I quoted. It identified all of the major issues you are complaining about. None of which has anything to do with Longo.

BTW, this thread is a gutterball.

Would you agree Stanford over the past couple years has fielded a more athletic team than us? Their front 7 last year moved around better than anyone outside of bama/georgia IMO. Their athletes have similar school responsibilities to ours, and they're not getting classes as good as ours according to their rankings. They've finished outside of the top 50, 7th, and 22nd the past 3 years.

 

[irishpat183]

Brady Quinn and Golden Tate weren't developed at ND?

ND went to the NCG, last year. Since then, we have lost our two leading rushers, an All-American Tight End, our starting QB, our All-American MLB, and most of the leaders on defense (KLM, Teo, Motta) from last year. And this team can still win 10 games. It will take some bounces going their way, and they can't do it playing like Saturday night every week. But they can get better as the season progresses, and possibly win 10 games. WTF else do you people want? This isn't the f'in SEC, PAC-10, or B1G, where your program can regularly ignore recruiting rules, practice rules, and amateurism rules.

That's the issue. We act like we belong there and brag about our recruiting classes compared to theirs.

 

[GoIrish41]

I think everyone was anticipating the Defense to be better all throughout the offseason and that it was just a fact that we finally had depth along the lines and we would finally be able to plug in some high profile recruits. Then we had the offseason and lost Spond, Springman, transfers, and Golson goes bye bye.

I think more people were concerned with our offense after fall camp and expected the D to be better just by default. Then the Temple game which was explained away as a vanilla offense and tepid defense (not showing anything). Then the Michigan game where everyone's hopes for the defense were dashed against the rocks or explained away as being beat by a worldbeater and that we would be "just fine." Then comes Purdue who got trashed by Cincinnati and struggled to beat another inferior team and holds us off till the 4th quarter.

I don't think we have had an off week necessarily but it is more of the denial of the percieved reality and an acceptance of an objective analysis of what is really going on.

Our defense is just not good. We have no leadership, our depth is not that deep, and our scheme is allowing our weakness to become liabilities.

A few points that were suggested and largely accepted as facts over the offseason ...

1. B. Jackson is an all-American first or second round pick in the NFL. There was absolutely no evidence of that being the case.

2. Grace's athleticism and speed would mean a seemless transition at MLB. If he was that good, he would have played beside Teo last year instead of Fox, Calabrese.

3. Nix and Tuitt were going to be unstoppable world-beating studs on the DL. I think both of them have been negatively affected by the extra weight they put on this year, and without an All-American LB behind them to keep defensive lines honest, they are being double teamed and have not been difference makers. We are getting NO pressure on opposing QBs.

4. Amir was going to be the answer at tailback. I think Amir is talented, but he isn't strong enough to run it up the gut like teo, and he doesn't seem to have the "make you miss" that Wood had. The expectation that a guy coming off injury was going to replace two guys who made NFL rosters is a bit of a reach.

5. Jaylon Smith is going to step on the filed and make things happen. He's a true freshman who seems lost at times. He'll become great, but he is invisible at times on our defense.

6. Rees will be a solid replacement for Golson. He's actually doing better than I thought, but nobody in the world things that Rees is going to run the ball. That mobility was one of the things that made Golson effective -- especially as the season wound on last year. Rees gives up an important dimension in our offense.

7. Our line is going to dominate. So far, not so much. They were handled by Purdue and didn't noticably dominate any team this year.

 

[BobD]

Diaco needs to understand that "Bend but don't break" eventally is going to break. Especially when you don't have the talent to play that style of D.

What style would you suggest?

"Bend don't break" gives up the middle of the field to consolidate your defense into a smaller space, making it easier to defend, especially with less talented players.

Sorry, but I'm very curious to hear your answer.

 

[irishpat183]

Sorry, but I'm very curious to hear your answer.

He needs to change up what he's doing. Bring more pressure, encourage guys to make plays on the ball. Be agressive.

Just "giving" a team 5-7 yards isn't going to work with this group of kids. We can't keep letting teams march down the field and then hope to shut them down in the redZone like we did last year.

 

[Cackalacky]

He needs to change up what he's doing. Bring more pressure, encourage guys to make plays on the ball. Be agressive.

Just "giving" a team 5-7 yards isn't going to work with this group of kids. We can't keep letting teams march down the field and then hope to shut them down in the redZone like we did last year.

I have seen plenty of pressure with no sacks to show for it. Also Qbs are getting rid of the ball quickly. As several people have said when teams go conventional we eat them up, but most teams are taking advantage of the personnel groupings on the field and we have to adjust.

 

[NDBoiler]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharksamardzija8345
Secondly, I don't think the coaching staff allows the players to play naturally.. too much thinking, not enough instincts and making plays.. too robotic and systematic..


Isn't that exactly what Bellicheck said about ND?

 

[irishpat183]

A few points that were suggested and largely accepted as facts over the offseason ...

1. B. Jackson is an all-American first or second round pick in the NFL. There was absolutely no evidence of that being the case.

2. Grace's athleticism and speed would mean a seemless transition at MLB. If he was that good, he would have played beside Teo last year instead of Fox, Calabrese.

3. Nix and Tuitt were going to be unstoppable world-beating studs on the DL. I think both of them have been negatively affected by the extra weight they put on this year, and without an All-American LB behind them to keep defensive lines honest, they are being double teamed and have not been difference makers. We are getting NO pressure on opposing QBs.

4. Amir was going to be the answer at tailback. I think Amir is talented, but he isn't strong enough to run it up the gut like teo, and he doesn't seem to have the "make you miss" that Wood had. The expectation that a guy coming off injury was going to replace two guys who made NFL rosters is a bit of a reach.

5. Jaylon Smith is going to step on the filed and make things happen. He's a true freshman who seems lost at times. He'll become great, but he is invisible at times on our defense.

6. Rees will be a solid replacement for Golson. He's actually doing better than I thought, but nobody in the world things that Rees is going to run the ball. That mobility was one of the things that made Golson effective -- especially as the season wound on last year. Rees gives up an important dimension in our offense.

7. Our line is going to dominate. So far, not so much. They were handled by Purdue and didn't noticably dominate any team this year.

1. Agreed. That was possibly the dumbest thing I heard all off season besides Motta being a first day draft pick.

2. Yep. I like Grace and think he's going to be a good player, but he's got some learning to do

3. Agreed. The good thing is, if we can get a ILB to step up, those two are eating up OL and will free up our LB's

4. Amir is a very talented back...but you're right...he hasn't played in 2 yrs. Gonna be some adjustments and getting back into the groove, if he ever does.

5. Smith will be a beast one day. Just not this year. And it's scary that we feel the need to start him because we are so thin...not a knock on him, but that's tremendous pressure on a true freshman

6. Rees is VERY average. He's a good back up. That's all. He offers ZERO playmaking skills and really doesn't have that great of an arm. Can he make some throws and look good at times? Sure....but so can every other QB in D1

7. We're ok on the line. I'm actually not too down on them considering they have to protect a guy that can't move.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Just pointing out your words in this thread. And yes, they're immature, insulting, and embarrassing for this site. I've never insulted you, yet you, ThePiombi, and NDPhilly took tough guy shots at me. Read your words.

Lol, 95% of threads don't even get a 'star rating' regardless of how good/bad they are. 'The Post Game' Thread, 'Breaking Bad' thread don't even have a star rating... So by your reasoning they're among the worst threads on the site, which simply is NOT true.

I couldn't tell you. I would guess you just need a place to be tough, and this is your platform, unfortunately.

Absolutely. The things you've put on here shouldn't be allowed, IMO.

Not banning for your frustration, but for your poor lack of etiquette and disrespect for other posters.

For my questioning of our S/C coach? I'm fine with that. But drop the tough guy posts, the insults, and try to add to the discussion.


Ever notice how I get into discussions, but I never insult someone even when I completely disagree? That's called being an adult and respectful. Yet I take grenades from you and the others, and I have the problem? Lol.

I guess I'll be the bigger guy and back out of this. I've explained myself well enough.

Don't bring other posters into this, they've done nothing wrong.

And don't say I "disrespect other posters". I've never done such.

 

[koonja]

I guess I'll be the bigger guy and back out of this. I've explained myself well enough.

Don't bring other posters into this, they've done nothing wrong.

And don't say I "disrespect other posters". I've never done such.

You aren't being the bigger guy but simply no longer posting offensive things. I was the 'bigger man' by not engaging in offensive posts with you and the others.

It's in the thread. It's fact. If you don't think 'you're a clown', 'you must have an extra chromosome' (insinuating I have down-syndrome I believe), 'you should drink and drive home', 'you add nothing to this site' are examples of 'not doing anything wrong', you should not post here or anywhere else on the internet. You simply do not get it.

Again, your words are in this thread. I don't need an apology, but quit acting like you and the others mentioned were not irresponsible, insulting, and embarrassing.

If you have a problem with an opinion, then explain why you disagree. That generates a healthy discussion, which is what this site is for. It's not for bullying, or jumping on the pile, or just calling someone a moron because they see things differently than you. For all of the talking you and I have done in this thread, I've actually discussed the topic (Longo) and all you've done is call names and try to start fights.

If you want to keep posting in this thread, please add to the discussion rather than call me an idiot and then explain why that's not a big deal. If you can't get off of that, just PM me or write your negative things on my 'wall' so others don't have to be distracted by your problem with me.

 

[kmoose]

6. Rees is VERY average. He's a good back up. That's all. He offers ZERO playmaking skills and really doesn't have that great of an arm. Can he make some throws and look good at times? Sure....but so can every other QB in D1

60+% completions

~4000 yards

28TDs, 8 INTs

Yeah, Rees is well on his way to being VERY average....

 

[Cackalacky]

But does that say anything about their practices? All that being timid, not playing naturally should be things that they work through in practice.

This is where it hurts us. We are down to what, 75 scholarships? And a weak scout team? Wasn't this a criticism for the practicing up to the NCG... we did not get very physical?

 

[Cackalacky]

60+% completions

~4000 yards

28TDs, 8 INTs

Yeah, Rees is well on his way to being VERY average....

I am not big on extrapolating and then basing an argument on it but Rees has surprised me. I am less concerned about him now than I was at the beginning of fall camp, that is for sure.

 

[koonja]

I am not big on extrapolating and then basing an argument on it but Rees has surprised me. I am less concerned about him now than I was at the beginning of fall camp, that is for sure.

If you asked every ND fan if they'd be happy with 3 straight 300+ passing yards games and only 2 interceptions from Rees through 3 games, everyone would say hell yeah, I'll take it.

He doesn't have a ceiling but at least he's playing at his.

 

[T Town Tommy]

This is where it hurts us. We are down to what, 75 scholarships? And a weak scout team? Wasn't this a criticism for the practicing up to the NCG... we did not get very physical?

That is true. The lack of competitive practice will hinder the quality reps the guys are getting, thus leading to indecisiveness and timidness on gameday. Great point.

 

[kmoose]

I am not big on extrapolating and then basing an argument on it but Rees has surprised me. I am less concerned about him now than I was at the beginning of fall camp, that is for sure.

I'm not, either. But I'm sick and tired of people acting like Rees is still holding the team back. It really shows how ignorant some posters are, and how, when they watch games, they watch for evidence to back up their preconceived notions instead of watching what is happening and drawing conclusions from it.

 

[ickythump1225]

I'm not, either. But I'm sick and tired of people acting like Rees is still holding the team back. It really shows how ignorant some posters are, and how, when they watch games, they watch for evidence to back up their preconceived notions instead of watching what is happening and drawing conclusions from it.

Truth. Rees has played beyond my expectations. If Rees was more mobile he'd be really really good.

 

[IrishLax]

6. Rees is VERY average. He's a good back up. That's all. He offers ZERO playmaking skills and really doesn't have that great of an arm. Can he make some throws and look good at times? Sure....but so can every other QB in D1

Rees is playing pretty darn well. You have no clue how bad some of the other quarterbacking is in the FBS if you actually think we could trade Tommy for "any other guy" and be fine. He's not Boyd, Manziel, or Bridgewater... but he's definitely within the top 25 QBs in the FBS.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm too drunk to go in depth on this, but I've been skeptical of his work for years.

However, I'm not too drunk to see that we're less athletic than a team that thrives on 1/2 star players, and this is not uncommon, unfortunately.

A couple things I'll comment on. The difference between 4/5 stars and 2/3 stars isn't always athleticism in fact a lot of the times its based on skill set or measurables. There are some crazy athletic 2/3 star kids out there that may not have a lot of experience playing the game or refined skill set at a particular position that when they get that coaching turn into gems. Thats the inefficiency of ratings not Longo's fault. Secondly, I do think teams are exploiting our weakness in the middle. Calabrese, Fox, and Grace aren't the most athletic LB's out there and they never were but again Longo isn't going to be able to drastically change how fast they are. Thats recruiting a different type of ILB (which hasn't been successful for the most part). DB's and S's are plenty athletic and fast in fact watching K.Russ and B.Jax out there running, I don't think we've had better athletes at CB in a very long time. From my perspective its been about being in the right spot, making the right reads, and then making the tackle. If we tackle Gallon when contact is first made he has 50-70 yards less receiving. We were there in front of him just took poor angles and used poor technique. A lot of arm tackles by K.Russ and Farely so far this year. Has nothing to do with athleticism. They are in the moment and letting their technique and what they've been taught slip. I think Grace, Carlo, and Fox's biggest hurdle right now is the depth of their respective drops and then making the correct reads. None of this has to do with Longo and if you don't want to believe me go read any of the national analysts out there and they'll tell you that ND is more athletic now than they have been in years. In fact, ND hater Kirk Herstriebt jumped on the bandwagon last year talking about how athletic we've become.

 

[irishpat183]

60+% completions

~4000 yards

28TDs, 8 INTs

Yeah, Rees is well on his way to being VERY average....

Is he starting if Golson is here? Even though Golson isn't as impressive throwing the ball statistically??


I'll wait for your excuse.

 

[Luckylucci]

Is he starting if Golson is here? Even though Golson isn't as impressive throwing the ball statistically??


I'll wait for your excuse.

I know you two have a back and forth going but what does Golson being here or not have to do with whether Rees's performance is average?

 

[irishpat183]

60+% completions

~4000 yards

28TDs, 8 INTs

Yeah, Rees is well on his way to being VERY average....

And you assume that will be his final count. Nothing he's done in the past says he's not going to throw more ints.

He's average.

Let's start using "if"'s to explain the rest of the team, shall we? I wonder what DD is on pace to do???

 

[irishpat183]

I know you two have a back and forth going but what does Golson being here or not have to do with whether Rees's performance is average?

I was stating that Tommy is still staring from the sideline is Golson was here.

Don't you guys get it????? THE ONLY REASON TOMMY IS SNIFFING THE FIELD IS IF EG IS HURT OR SUSPENDED.


It's as if you guys are under the assumption he earned this spot. He's a stop gap.

 

[gkIrish]

And you assume that will be his final count. Nothing he's done in the past says he's not going to throw more ints.

He's average.

Let's start using "if"'s to explain the rest of the team, shall we? I wonder what DD is on pace to do???

1200 yards and 16 TDs. I bet he does at least one.

 

[GoIrish41]

Rees is playing pretty darn well. You have no clue how bad some of the other quarterbacking is in the FBS if you actually think we could trade Tommy for "any other guy" and be fine. He's not Boyd, Manziel, or Bridgewater... but he's definitely within the top 25 QBs in the FBS.

I'd call this a bit of a reach.

 

[irishpat183]

1200 yards and 16 TDs. I bet he does at least one.

16 TD's? Not a chance.

But I could see 1200 yards...I'll admit that.

 

[koonja]

A couple things I'll comment on. The difference between 4/5 stars and 2/3 stars isn't always athleticism in fact a lot of the times its based on skill set or measurables. There are some crazy athletic 2/3 star kids out there that may not have a lot of experience playing the game or refined skill set at a particular position that when they get that coaching turn into gems. Thats the inefficiency of ratings not Longo's fault. Secondly, I do think teams are exploiting our weakness in the middle. Calabrese, Fox, and Grace aren't the most athletic LB's out there and they never were but again Longo isn't going to be able to drastically change how fast they are. Thats recruiting a different type of ILB (which hasn't been successful for the most part). DB's and S's are plenty athletic and fast in fact watching K.Russ and B.Jax out there running, I don't think we've had better athletes at CB in a very long time. From my perspective its been about being in the right spot, making the right reads, and then making the tackle. If we tackle Gallon when contact is first made he has 50-70 yards less receiving. We were there in front of him just took poor angles and used poor technique. A lot of arm tackles by K.Russ and Farely so far this year. Has nothing to do with athleticism. They are in the moment and letting their technique and what they've been taught slip. I think Grace, Carlo, and Fox's biggest hurdle right now is the depth of their respective drops and then making the correct reads. None of this has to do with Longo and if you don't want to believe me go read any of the national analysts out there and they'll tell you that ND is more athletic now than they have been in years. In fact, ND hater Kirk Herstriebt jumped on the bandwagon last year talking about how athletic we've become.

That's fair.

Totally agree at CB, but I disagree at safety. Farley/Collinsworth have not impressed IMO, and they're not flying to the ball like you want your safeties to.

I agree. We're finally getting the talent and have the coach at the same time. Hasn't happened since Lou Holtz. But I still believe that the S/C coach should be judged team-wide, and the team-athleticism is reflected most on special teams, because everyone plays it. IMO our special teams (kicking/punting aside) coverage and returns have been awful. If you watch most other teams that recruits top-25 talent, their special teams >>>> ours, and I don't think it's to blame scheme, I think they're working with more athletic players.

 

[Luckylucci]

I was stating that Tommy is still staring from the sideline is Golson was here.

Don't you guys get it????? THE ONLY REASON TOMMY IS SNIFFING THE FIELD IS IF EG IS HURT OR SUSPENDED.


It's as if you guys are under the assumption he earned this spot. He's a stop gap.

The conversation was about you saying he was playing average football which actually has nothing to do with Golson. If Golson was here obviously Rees wouldn't be playing but Rees is playing and your saying he's playing average football. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The relevant points to look at would be statistics relative to other FBS QB's which Golson isn't one of.