Professional Ethics and Your Life

[Cackalacky]

I just attended a webinar with Dr. Vincent Drnevich Professor Emeritus at Purdue (Civil Engineering). He obtained his BS and MS at Notre Dame and his PhD at Michigan. It was a typical discussion on ethics but it did get me wondering at how my code impacts my day to day life and interpretation of things outside of my professional activities. How many of you guys have a professional ethics code you are bound to in your profession and how much does it spill over into your actions in the world outside of professional duties?

 

[kmoose]

I just attended a webinar with Dr. Vincent Drnevich Professor Emeritus at Purdue (Civil Engineering). He obtained his BS and MS at Notre Dame and his PhD at Michigan. It was a typical discussion on ethics but it did get me wondering at how my code impacts my day to day life and interpretation of things outside of my professional activities. How many of you guys have a professional ethics code you are bound to in your profession and how much does it spill over into your actions in the world outside of professional duties?

My dad taught me my ethics, as a young boy. I carry those with me, still today, and I think that I have gravitated to employment that values those ethics. I maintain and repair the equipment that TSA uses to screen passengers at airports, so ethics are a major portion of my employment. I think my experience is probably pretty typical of most people: they were taught ethics as a child, by family, and those are the ethics that they live by, in the present.

 

[Guest]

I have an ethics code I have signed and must follow as part of my professional certification. Plus the position I am in requires a strong sense of ethics.

 

[tadman95]

I've had positions where there were ethic codes to abide by. Never had to worry because I was lucky enough to have been taught them as a child.

 

[Emcee77]

My dad taught me my ethics, as a young boy. I carry those with me, still today, and I think that I have gravitated to employment that values those ethics. I maintain and repair the equipment that TSA uses to screen passengers at airports, so ethics are a major portion of my employment. I think my experience is probably pretty typical of most people: they were taught ethics as a child, by family, and those are the ethics that they live by, in the present.

I've had positions where there were ethic codes to abide by. Never had to worry because I was lucky enough to have been taught them as a child.

These responses might be missing Cack's point; but I can't improve upon them.

Obviously lawyers are bound by a code of professional ethics. Model Rules of Professional Conduct: Table of Contents | The Center for Professional Responsibility. In most states (maybe all of them?) you have to get a qualifying score on a standardized legal professional ethics exam before you can become a licensed attorney.

I would say most of the rules, though, either apply to anyone in any context (e.g., "don't lie" [cue the crooked lawyer jokes]) or they only apply to lawyers practicing law. So professional ethics doesn't really spill over into my personal life, or if it does, it does so only in a way that coincides with the normal ethical principles that I was raised on. Be honest, discreet, diligent, competent, loyal, etc.

 

[Grahambo]

I was taught my personal ethics by my dad and grandmother who molded them from Christianity. I carry it with me to this day with some minor tweaks and in my job, I must have the utmost ethical standards.

 

[woolybug25]

I just attended a webinar with Dr. Vincent Drnevich Professor Emeritus at Purdue (Civil Engineering). He obtained his BS and MS at Notre Dame and his PhD at Michigan. It was a typical discussion on ethics but it did get me wondering at how my code impacts my day to day life and interpretation of things outside of my professional activities. How many of you guys have a professional ethics code you are bound to in your profession and how much does it spill over into your actions in the world outside of professional duties?

Talk about lack of ethics!



Seriously though, I often think about how the ethics of my job have warped my personal ethics in life. It's funny how your career can change you in that way. As a commercial banker, I have to have lines of confidentiality, and I find myself doing that same thing in my personal life. Putting a certain importance on financial information that I know about my friends and family.

 

[Cackalacky]

I think there is some misunderstanding so hopefully this will clear it up. This is my professional Code of Ethics. I even have a ring that I wear to remind me and that everything I touch bears this responsibility. I find that this sometimes dominates the way I handle situations outside of work and in my interactions with people and regarding other things in politics, sports and such. Anyway the good Dr. giving the talk has some points that hit home today. I thought I would share.

 

[NDdomer2]

So as an auditor you must be independent from your clients. We obviously find errors in work all the time. But there is a fine line in notifying someone of an error and guiding them to proper answer/procedure and instructing them to how things should be done.

I've found when people in my personal life ask for advice that I now don't give my true opinions as I used to but examples or scenarios that can help them reach there own decision.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I always [well, since I actually decided to become an adult] have put Morality first. Ethics was applied if the ethical point was coherent with New Testament {Gospel-of-Love} Guiding Principles. The reason that I make this distinction is that I feel that you have a very difficult time philosophically deducing a truly self-sacrificing morality from mere ethics. Also, I believe that often things which are claimed to be "ethical" are confused with things which are only "legal." Sometimes this confusion is subtle, deeply colored by societal or organizational history and mores. The only way that I can strip some of this behaviorally programmed fog away from my moment-to-moment actions is to fall back on the Principles of the Beatitudes and The Gospel of Love. That is easier said than done of course, and I fail lots of the time.

 

[Cackalacky]

I appreciate your input OMM and I do struggle with certain things sometimes, as do we all. Its interesting to me because the distinction between my morality and ethics as not necessarily that different, as I would hope that the public welfare being paramount is a consideration worthy of keeping true on any level and in any profession, but that is not the case across the board.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Hello, Cack. I had it relatively easy as a college professor, so I'm not one to take any high horse position. But even in academia there were morality/ethics dichotomies --- in some of these it came down to decisions of simple love {and mercy} vs "justice".

Any human being who has a heart must struggle with these dilemmas. Those without much of a heart use, I believe, the "ethical" stance as a "legal" stance to defend more hard-assed decisions from which they can coldly walk away. Ethics much of the time tempts you to make one move and then walk away. Morality often will not allow you to do only that. Jesus said that His way was hard --- He was sure right.

 

[Cackalacky]

Hello, Cack. I had it relatively easy as a college professor, so I'm not one to take any high horse position. But even in academia there were morality/ethics dichotomies --- in some of these it came down to decisions of simple love {and mercy} vs "justice".

Any human being who has a heart must struggle with these dilemmas. Those without much of a heart use, I believe, the "ethical" stance as a "legal" stance to defend more hard-assed decisions from which they can coldly walk away. Ethics much of the time tempts you to make one move and then walk away. Morality often will not allow you to do only that. Jesus said that His way was hard --- He was sure right.

Yep. I totally understand that. In the professional setting, especially in a virtually amoral capitalist economy, the client can make some decisions/chioces very difficult in deed.
There were a couple of cases that were discussed in the webinar and it really made me think about putting myself in that situation, especially in the light of engineering ethics which, to me appear to be pretty good standards to operate on. I would think I would have the heart to walk away from something that was not up to my standards, morally and ethically. Luckily I have yet to be tested in that manner but once and I walked away.

I was also curious about others professional codes more to see how they compare to the engineers.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

These responses might be missing Cack's point; but I can't improve upon them.

Obviously lawyers are bound by a code of professional ethics. Model Rules of Professional Conduct: Table of Contents | The Center for Professional Responsibility. In most states (maybe all of them?) you have to get a qualifying score on a standardized legal professional ethics exam before you can become a licensed attorney.

I would say most of the rules, though, either apply to anyone in any context (e.g., "don't lie" [cue the crooked lawyer jokes]) or they only apply to lawyers practicing law. So professional ethics doesn't really spill over into my personal life, or if it does, it does so only in a way that coincides with the normal ethical principles that I was raised on. Be honest, discreet, diligent, competent, loyal, etc.

Baby lawyer here. I actually have yet to be sworn in so I'm technically not yet an attorney. MD does not require the MPRE exam, nor does it test ethics in an essay. I have day long ethics seminar coming up though, and if I botch it at all I won't be sworn in come the end of December.

Most of the rules for lawyers, as you say, apply to everyone. Don't steal, don't lie, and don't bone your clients. I do have a problem with the affirmative duty to snitch though. Remember, "FREE BOOOZY!!! JUST REMEMBER SNITCHES GET STITCHES!! U KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!" Griffin v. State, 419 Md. 343, 348 (2011). <-------- A real cite, btw



But yeah, lawyers have to snitch on each other. Rule 8.3 Reporting Professional Misconduct Rule 8.3: Reporting Professional Misconduct | The Center for Professional Responsibility

(a) A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects, shall inform the appropriate professional authority.

(b) A lawyer who knows that a judge has committed a violation of applicable rules of judicial conduct that raises a substantial question as to the judge's fitness for office shall inform the appropriate authority.

(c) This Rule does not require disclosure of information otherwise protected by Rule 1.6 or information gained by a lawyer or judge while participating in an approved lawyers assistance program.

 

[Cackalacky]

Baby lawyer here. I actually have yet to be sworn in so I'm technically not yet an attorney. MD does not require the MPRE exam, nor does it test ethics in an essay. I have day long ethics seminar coming up though, and if I botch it at all I won't be sworn in come the end of December.

Most of the rules for lawyers, as you say, apply to everyone. Don't steal, don't lie, and don't bone your clients. I do have a problem with the affirmative duty to snitch though. Remember, "FREE BOOOZY!!! JUST REMEMBER SNITCHES GET STITCHES!! U KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!" Griffin v. State, 419 Md. 343, 348 (2011). <-------- A real cite, btw



But yeah, lawyers have to snitch on each other. Rule 8.3 Reporting Professional Misconduct Rule 8.3: Reporting Professional Misconduct | The Center for Professional Responsibility

Engineers also are obliged to report mistatements or erroneous designs or identification of possibly dangerous situations. Doing so must be submitted with evidence and erroneously/falsely doing so can cause your license to be revoked.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Engineers also are obliged to report mistatements or erroneous designs or identification of possibly dangerous situations. Doing so must be submitted with evidence and erroneously/falsely doing so can cause your license to be revoked.

Yep. Just ask some of the General Motors engineers that are currently walking legal tightropes with their ignition switch issues that have allegedly led to some fatalities. In automotive, as in all engineering fields, we have a duty and an obligation to report such findings as well as follow their resolution to the end. In the case of GM, it appears that may have been splittered. I take that responsibility seriously as it can potentially be life and death. Just my two cents worth.

 

[stlnd01]

I work in a profession that many people in the general public hold in low ethical esteem (I'm a newspaper reporter), but which - among those of us who've built a career at it - actually has a pretty strong code of ethics which can be summed up like this: Be honest and straightforward and don't screw people for short-term gain.
I have found that code to serve me well in both my professional and personal lives.

 

[BGIF]

... How many of you guys have a professional ethics code you are bound to in your profession and how much does it spill over into your actions in the world outside of professional duties?

I was generally bound by the same ones you are.

In my case, PE Licensing Boards, NSPE, ASCE, AWWA, WEF, SMPS.

 

[TheItalian]

I manage a hotel for a very large company. We have a code, although, we don't call it a Code of Ethics. And we live by it everyday.

I've been in this industry for about 13 years now and its absolutely carried over into my personal life.

 

[irishtrain]

These responses might be missing Cack's point; but I can't improve upon them.

Obviously lawyers are bound by a code of professional ethics. Model Rules of Professional Conduct: Table of Contents | The Center for Professional Responsibility. In most states (maybe all of them?) you have to get a qualifying score on a standardized legal professional ethics exam before you can become a licensed attorney.

I would say most of the rules, though, either apply to anyone in any context (e.g., "don't lie" [cue the crooked lawyer jokes]) or they only apply to lawyers practicing law. So professional ethics doesn't really spill over into my personal life, or if it does, it does so only in a way that coincides with the normal ethical principles that I was raised on. Be honest, discreet, diligent, competent, loyal, etc.

Thank you Mom/Dad, same here

 

[koonja]

There's one code of conduct in my world. All you gotta do is say 'Claimed'. That's it.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The official code:
NEA - Code of Ethics

My personal quick and dirty version (apologies to the doctors in the house):
First, do no harm.

 

[Fbolt]

I have many standards and ethics work attempts to pressure me with. Can't keep them straight. I know when I fail and exert myself to improve.

Learned this at age 19 and the principles have stayed with me.

NCO Creed

No one is more professional than I. I am a noncommissioned officer, a leader of Soldiers. As a noncommissioned officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of noncommissioned officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.

Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind—accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a noncommissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my Soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, noncommissioned officers, leaders!