Rumored Violations

[zelezo vlk]

Now in italics. Though I'm not sure if it should be.

.

I'm with Lax, unless BK is given assurances from Jack etc that the BS will be cut back (not sure how they could honestly promise that), he gone. And I don't blame him.

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[Sherm Sticky]

In general, I'm extremely skeptical that these players are getting a fair shake. I think the proof is in the pudding that this is a concentrated effort to inflict as much harm on the football program as possible... there aren't many other reasonable explanations for why you'd dig through thousands of emails or vacate wins just because you feel like it.

 

[MrIrishCanadian1]

I can't speak for other schools within ND, but I know for certain that's not the case in Arts and Letters.

I can speak for the philosophy department, and there's a heckuva lot of curving there.

 

[sfk324]

I'm with Lax, unless BK is given assurances from Jack etc that the BS will be cut back (not sure how they could honestly promise that), he gone. And I don't blame him.

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What BS exactly? That football players be treated the same as non-football players? These guys are getting the same "fair treatment" every other student gets, they just have the misfortune of having it play out in a semi-public arena.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

So this is what I have...

Fact: ND investigating 4 players for cheating that occurred during the 2012 season. 22 other students are being investigated for possible involvement.

Rumor: A disgruntled lover/tutor told ND officials about players cheating on assignments.

Rumor: A player (IW) turned in an assignment through email and left incriminating evidence on it. The professor notified ND officials about possible cheating.

 

[Rudy89]

Of this does make BK leave who in the hell could we possibly hire that can make us a decent team anymore. From what in reading from you his it seems like the university is on a crusade to make sure this school isn't known for football anymore by suspending good players without a fair shake and vacatin the last time we were truly one of the best teams.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

So this is what I have...

Fact: ND investigating 4 players for cheating that occurred during the 2012 season. 22 other students are being investigated for possible involvement.

Rumor: A disgruntled lover/tutor told ND officials about players cheating on assignments.

Rumor: A player (IW) turned in an assignment through email and left incriminating evidence on it. The professor notified ND officials about possible cheating.

Am I missing anything?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What I really wish is that the names of the people in charge of this witch hunt and combing through the emails would be leaked so they could get a piece of our collective minds.

Yes! They're doing immense harm to the University, and while the existence of a strong anti-football bloc within the administration is widely acknowledged, we're never given specific names.

If they want to play witch-hunter, let's see how well they hold up under public scrutiny.

 

[Cali_domer]

Of this does make BK leave who in the hell could we possibly hire that can make us a decent team anymore. From what in reading from you his it seems like the university is on a crusade to make sure this school isn't known for football anymore by suspending good players without a fair shake and vacatin the last time we were truly one of the best teams.

We won't...

But I don't think BK gone unless this blows up even worse.
If the NFL offers he gone though.

 

[koonja]

If these 4 are gone, we're going to win ~ 8 games at best, so IDK that he'd be at the top of anyone's list. At least not for a NFL job, I could see college job.

 

[NDdomer2]

If these 4 are gone, we're going to win ~ 8 games at best, so IDK that he'd be at the top of anyone's list. At least not for a NFL job, I could see college job.

I could see a scenario where florida shits the bed, Muschamp gets fired. You don't think they would be interested in Kelly?

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm with Lax, unless BK is given assurances from Jack etc that the BS will be cut back (not sure how they could honestly promise that), he gone. And I don't blame him.

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I would not disagree with this at all. There is no doubt in MY mind that if Belechick stepped aside, BK would crawl across a hundred yards of rusty Gillette razors for that job.

Anymore of this and he might take the Arizona Rattlers post.

.

 

[Rudy89]

We won't...

But I don't think BK gone unless this blows up even worse.
If the NFL offers he gone though.

That's what I'm saying the nfl will hire bk. If a team will give greg schiano a shot they will give bk one and he will have a lot less of a headache I feel like doing a Cartman rant lol over again with how I'm feeling about this school given the info I have been given. Just from what I've read here on this forum it seems the biggest hater of nd football isn't USC, Michigan, Stanford, FSU, Penn State, Alabama, the Big Ten, The Sec, ESPN, Collin Cowherd, Mark May, or anti-Catholics it's the university itself.

 

[BobD]

If this crap is true I don't know how any of them will face their mothers again. If it's not, the university has some big time apologizing to do.

It funny but that's how I use to think as a kid if I'd done something wrong and got caught. "Oh no what will my mom think of me?" Or worse grandma.

 

[Cali_domer]

That's what I'm saying the nfl will hire bk. If a team will give greg schiano a shot they will give bk one and he will have a lot less of a headache I feel like doing a Cartman rant lol over again with how I'm feeling about this school given the info I have been given. Just from what I've read here on this forum it seems the biggest hater of nd football isn't USC, Michigan, Stanford, FSU, Penn State, Alabama, the Big Ten, The Sec, ESPN, Collin Cowherd, Mark May, or anti-Catholics it's the university itself.

The University has ALWAYS struggled with having a winning program. Nothing new and it ain't going away anytime soon.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Who is capable of digging out the details? How can we find names of the administration that began all of this? It really shouldn't be that hard, who works for the university and has access to their email records?

 

[BobbyMac]

Congrats Rudy...

Number 2000. 72 hours... not too shabby.

*Actually 76... just to keep it factual... LIKE THE REST OF THIS THREAD.

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[tussin]

The University has ALWAYS struggled with having a winning program. Nothing new and it ain't going away anytime soon.

Why? Was it like this during the Holtz days? What has changed since then?

 

[Wild Bill]

Yes! They're doing immense harm to the University, and while the existence of a strong anti-football bloc within the administration is widely acknowledged, we're never given specific names.

If they want to play witch-hunter, let's see how well they hold up under public scrutiny.

Selfish pricks better pray I don't stumble into Phil Knight type money. State of the art facilities would be traded for names. Let's just hope it happens for me...for us.

 

[Emcee77]

Why? Was it like this during the Holtz days? What has changed since then?

This is where we need BGIF to chime in, but I think it was pretty much like this during the Holtz days. Holtz at least butted heads with the administration over admissions, right? I believe there were other struggles but there are other people on the board more competent to address the matter.

 

[tdbaum1]

I don't even really understand the notion of vacating wins. I can't unlive the memory of the 2012 season. It happened. I watched ND win those games. You can reduce the number in our alltime wins column if you want, but it's completely meaningless to me.

+1

 

[koonja]

DD's guy Chiro who claimed 2/3 were cleared finally chimed in:

"My 1st comment was from one source. That was that 2 guys would be cleared and then a 3rd one was cleared.

The second source told me that there were more things coming which did not include the 4 players. I'm only assuming that it would be vacating victories or something that would't affect this team.

These were two separate things.

I'm like the rest of you at this point. Just waiting to see who shows up for practice today."

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Yes! They're doing immense harm to the University, and while the existence of a strong anti-football bloc within the administration is widely acknowledged, we're never given specific names.

If they want to play witch-hunter, let's see how well they hold up under public scrutiny.

Might be a dumb question...Why are their some people in the administration that are "out to get" the football program?

If this is how they feel why does the University even have a football program? Or if the University wants a football program why are these people on the administration board, why have they not been removed?

 

[zelezo vlk]

What BS exactly? That football players be treated the same as non-football players? These guys are getting the same "fair treatment" every other student gets, they just have the misfortune of having it play out in a semi-public arena.

It's not semi-public. Their names are in articles all over the interwebs! It's one thing to punish a football player the same as any student, but these aren't most students. Three of them are probably considering a career of football post-ND. Even if the university clears their names, that doesn't change anything in the court of public opinion.

 

[MPClinton22]

I find it absolutely pathetic that the anyone within the administration/BoT would want the football program killed. Are they really so narrow-sighted that they don't understand all of the GOOD that the football program brings to the university? And pulling crap like this only makes the university as a WHOLE look bad - as unfair as that may be. And the money, publicity and public support that are all generated by the football program are what allowed ND to grow into the institution it is today. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

EDIT - This isn't to say that if these players TRULY did something wrong and committed academic fraud that I don't believe they should be held accountable. All I mean is that to go on this witch hunt for the sake of building up ill-will towards the football program would be short-sighted and irresponsible. But it remains to be seen if that's actually what is happening with this whole situation.

 

[PANDFAN]

DD's guy Chiro who claimed 2/3 were cleared finally chimed in:

"My 1st comment was from one source. That was that 2 guys would be cleared and then a 3rd one was cleared.

The second source told me that there were more things coming which did not include the 4 players. I'm only assuming that it would be vacating victories or something that would't affect this team.

These were two separate things.

I'm like the rest of you at this point. Just waiting to see who shows up for practice today."

I already posted...none of the 4did today

 

[kmoose]

It's particularly meaningless if we're only scratching them out in our private ledger, because the NCAA sure as hell isn't going to be vacating any of our wins. Seems like some factions within the administration are looking to make a statement here, which is very worrisome. Individual athletes and the football program as a whole suffer needlessly in these sorts of internal power struggles.

I really disagree. All Father Jenkins is saying is that if these players should have been ineligible, then the University will vacate those wins. It's symbolic, but significant. It is a message that says ND is still committed to doing things right. It says that ND will not take the easy way out; it won't use wriggle room within the rules, to show favor to athletics. And that's exactly the kind of attitude that ND is built on. It may be a different world in college football, but it has always been the way of Notre Dame.

If I were Swarbrick, and the contention that ND has incredibly few academic assistants available to athletes in comparison to other schools, I would use this incident as a catalyst to lobby for extra academic assistant positions within the Athletics Dept.

 

[Rudy89]

Congrats Rudy...

Number 2000. 72 hours... not too shabby.

*Actually 76... just to keep it factual... LIKE THE REST OF THIS THREAD.

.

Woohoo post 2000!*

After looking myself it says I'm post 2001 so I willingly vacate a faux congrats post even though IE has no issue with it.

Sorry if this double posts or is a double post having troubles with the ole iPhone

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Why? Was it like this during the Holtz days? What has changed since then?

Holtz did a great job of lobbying for academic exceptions. He was able to get the first (and last) Prop 48 players admitted. Of course, those kids (2-3?) went on to graduate. In fact, Zorich went on to graduate law school. Keep in mind, that ND was coming off the woeful Faust era and were anxious for a quick "return to glory". Holtz also had some great ADs supporting him in Moose Krause & Dick Rosenthal.

Once ND returned to dominance, the administration (or the anti-football sect) wanted to dial it back a bit. This started w/ running off ace recruiter, Vinny Cerrato. His last class at ND produced the 1993 National Champs runner up. Recruiting remained strong but not at the level of the halcyon days of Cerrato and the exceptions all but disappeared. The Kim Dunbar scandal sealed the deal on that. My cynical side tells me that the administration wants on-field success but once the HC becomes as big or bigger than the program, they dial it down by any means necessary. This was the theory of why Faust was brought in in 1981. It was his dream job...he was a HS coach...he was a loyal committed Catholic...he could be easily controlled. He was a perfect fit for the priests but it blew up in their faces.

Holtz was run off (or ran himself off) and the cycle started over w/ a longer drought (Davie, Willingham, Weis). The rumor (strictly rumor) was that Bob Stoops was set to take the ND job had he been given five academic exceptions. This did not happen & the rest is history. Let's hope it works out the way we hoped.

 

[ndfi78]

Am I missing anything?

AFAIK, there has been no confirmation of 22 other students being investigated. Just the 4 have been confirmed.