A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[IrishinTN]

I am working with an editor on my novel now. I can tell you GRRM is not meeting the publishers expectations, but he knows he has them over a barrel, so what can they do about it? Nothing.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Jojen paste is not confirmed! I refuse to believe the little grandfather was cannibalized by Bran. I'll kick and scream until I read it in the pages, or HBO jumps the gun and shows me on screen...

Jojen paste? Jojen paste.

 

[gkIrish]

So as much as they changed the Hound story...it didn't change much.

 

[greyhammer90]

So listening to my dad tell me about the episode it seems like the didn't do the lady stark reveal? I thought for sure that would be how the season ended!

 

[gkIrish]

So listening to my dad tell me about the episode it seems like the didn't do the lady stark reveal? I thought for sure that would be how the season ended!

Nope. I get the feeling that they aren't going to do it at all.

 

[gkIrish]

And I was totally wrong on my <1% chance prediction on Bran getting to the Raven.

 

[wizards8507]

Jojen paste? Jojen paste.

So much Jojen paste.

So as much as they changed the Hound story...it didn't change much.

Those changes worked for me. I LIKE the "walking around and meeting random people" Brienne and Hound chapters in the books because it makes them feel more real, but this was nice and neat for show purposes.

So listening to my dad tell me about the episode it seems like the didn't do the lady stark reveal? I thought for sure that would be how the season ended!

Yeah, awesome episode overall but slightly anticlimactic ending.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[phork]

I doubt they will leave that reveal out, its too juicy.

 

[IrishLion]

I liked ending it with Arya leaving. It makes me hopeful that her part in the end will be much larger than I initially thought. Perhaps the show runners know that Arya will return to Westeros as a master assassin, team up with Nymeria and the pack, and lay waste to all things before them, providing distant support for Rickon Stark, the first of his name, king of the First Men and the Andals, lord of the North and all of the Seven Kingdoms.

 

[ND NYC]

am i wrong in thinking that Bran will take over Drogons body in some fashion in ether book 6 or 7? does anyone even speculate on this? i only ask b/c of the adament "you will fly" line last night.

great finale!

very impressive landscpaes, CGI on the dragons, etc those directors are on their game. hope they can keep it up for another 6 years

 

[Emcee77]

am i wrong in thinking that Bran will take over Drogons body in some fashion in ether book 6 or 7? does anyone even speculate on this? i only ask b/c of the adament "you will fly" line last night.

great finale!

very impressive landscpaes, CGI on the dragons, etc those directors are on their game. hope they can keep it up for another 6 years

Think raven, not dragon.

 

[wizards8507]

Think raven, not dragon.

Lord Bloodraven has a thousand eyes, and one.

Speaking of that, did Bloodraven have both is eyes last night?

 

[IrishLion]

Lord Bloodraven has a thousand eyes, and one.

Speaking of that, did Bloodraven have both is eyes last night?

They didn't show much of him, but it seemed like he was way more put-together than in the books, where if I remember correctly he had roots growing through an exposed skull, etc.

 

[IrishLion]

We didn't see the hound die, so that only reinforces the theory/evidence from the books that "if you don't see them die, they aren't dead." Sandor Clegane shall return as a champion of some noble cause.

A few questions for you guys now:

1. Why no Lady Stoneheart? I think they're saving it for next season, considering book 3 has way more "big event" type stuff than 4/5. They need a big shocker like that to keep the next season rolling, IMO, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

2. Did Varys end up going with Tyrion in the books? I didn't think so because of his little birds taking care of business at the end of ADwD. If not, this may be a spoiler for us book readers... in the show, why go across the sea? Perhaps to meet with a certain Prince-in-Hiding? Did the show inadvertently open the potential for the Blackfyre storyline/theories (Varys and Illyrio working together to bring a "Targaryen" to the throne once more)? I say this may be a spoiler because even if Varys stayed behind in the books, the end result may be the same in that he meets up with Griffin/"Targ," but in Westeros rather than across the sea.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

They didn't show much of him, but it seemed like he was way more put-together than in the books, where if I remember correctly he had roots growing through an exposed skull, etc.

I was really disappointed with their portrayal of Bloodraven. He's supposed to be much more tree than man by the time Bran reaches him, and yet they made him up like Father Time sitting among a bunch of roots. They could have easily used make-up/ prosthesis to do it right if CGI was getting too expensive.

That scene also comes halfway through ADwD. They're really moving up Bran's storyline.

1. Why no Lady Stoneheart? I think they're saving it for next season, considering book 3 has way more "big event" type stuff than 4/5. They need a big shocker like that to keep the next season rolling, IMO, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

That's one of the few plausible reasons I've read for why we haven't seen her yet. Two straights finales in a row without a Stoneheart reveal. My sister thinks they'll keep her in the background until she captures Brienne; though that would mean passing on the awesome shock value of showing her resurrection.

2. Did Varys end up going with Tyrion in the books? I didn't think so because of his little birds taking care of business at the end of ADwD. If not, this may be a spoiler for us book readers... in the show, why go across the sea? Perhaps to meet with a certain Prince-in-Hiding? Did the show inadvertently open the potential for the Blackfyre storyline/theories (Varys and Illyrio working together to bring a "Targaryen" to the throne once more)? I say this may be a spoiler because even if Varys stayed behind in the books, the end result may be the same in that he meets up with Griffin/"Targ," but in Westeros rather than across the sea.

IIRC, Varys isn't described as having traveled with Tyrion, but he does disappear for a significant length of time before resurfacing in the epilogue of AFfC . I wouldn't call it a spoiler, though. Much of what you've mentioned has plenty of textual support in the books already.

 

[IrishLax]

My general thoughts:
1. JOJEN PASTE, YO. Gosh... I can't believe it... was really rooting for that theory to be untrue.
2. Disappointed with how they showed Leaf. In the book the Children are not just little humans.
3. I kinda liked the Arya/Hound/Brienne interaction and resolution. Was interesting and a solid departure from the books.
4. No Stoneheart means that arc is either getting cut or it'll be a big Season 5 reveal to spice up the plodding storylines.
5. The Shae death scene was innnnteresting. I liked that they had her go for the knife first.
6. The dialogue between Tyrion and Tywin left me a bit wanting. Thought that scene would be a bit more powerful.

 

[ND NYC]

looking ahead...what main storylines do you think show will cover/not cover next season?

i think they put in a lot of stuff not yet in the books

 

[Emcee77]

1. Why no Lady Stoneheart? I think they're saving it for next season, considering book 3 has way more "big event" type stuff than 4/5. They need a big shocker like that to keep the next season rolling, IMO, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

That's one of the few plausible reasons I've read for why we haven't seen her yet. Two straights finales in a row without a Stoneheart reveal. My sister thinks they'll keep her in the background until she captures Brienne; though that would mean passing on the awesome shock value of showing her resurrection.

These big serial type of shows seem to like to open and close a storyline within a single season to the extent possible. That makes the story easier to follow, and it eases the administrative/logistical burden of having a huge cast and having to schedule in a lot of actors -- you can sign up the actress who plays Lady Catelyn for seasons 1 -3, then cut her loose till season 5.

So to the extent that the Lady Stoneheart storyline can be done in one season, they probably preferred to do it that way. Maybe we see her resurrection at the end of the Season 5 premiere?

 

[gkIrish]

What part of last night's episode made the Jojen Paste theory true?? Just the fact that he died?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Poking around the web for reactions to the finale, it seems like shownlies hated the Bran scenes. And it's not hard to understand why. Benioff and Weiss went full-blown "high fantasy" there-- skeletons popping out the ground (and displaying unlikely agility), an elf throwing fireballs, Bloodraven making ominous prophecies, etc. Was a very jarring experience for anyone who thought they were watching a medieval Sopranos.

Also, didn't Leaf hit Jojen's corpse with a fireball? Maybe Benioff and Weiss will serve Bran blackened shortribs instead of paste?

 

[IrishLion]

What part of last night's episode made the Jojen Paste theory true?? Just the fact that he died?

That's how I see it. If he died in the show, that means his arc in the books is just about shot.... considering that fact, along with all of the Jojen Paste evidence, would seem to show that Bran had to consume Jojen to awaken his "powers."

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

What part of last night's episode made the Jojen Paste theory true?? Just the fact that he died?

Seeing him die at the cave just brings the theory to mind.

 

[IrishLax]

What part of last night's episode made the Jojen Paste theory true?? Just the fact that he died?

Yeah, they left his life/death really ambiguous in the book. I thought he was still alive until wizard and people started posting theories.

To me, the fact that they killed him in the show when they did means that he is in fact dead in the books and was ground up into paste. Which is really fucked up.

 

[IrishLion]

Yeah, they left his life/death really ambiguous in the book. I thought he was still alive until wizard and people started posting theories.

To me, the fact that they killed him in the show when they did means that he is in fact dead in the books and was ground up into paste. Which is really fucked up.

No way bro. It's for the good of the North. Worth it.

10/10, would ingest again.

 

[Emcee77]

Jojen was killed immediately after telling Bran to "save yourself" or something like that, wasn't he? It did seem like Jojen was conscious of making an act of sacrifice there. I might be over-interpreting, but I tend to agree that last night's finale provides some support for the Jojen paste theory.

 

[gkIrish]

FWIW Jojen is not dead according to A Wiki of Fire and Ice. Or at least it's not noted there.

Jojen Reed - A Wiki of Ice and Fire

 

[Emcee77]

FWIW Jojen is not dead according to A Wiki of Fire and Ice. Or at least it's not noted there.

Jojen Reed - A Wiki of Ice and Fire

Right, in the books it's never clear whether he dies. Bran just looks around for him and Meera and can't find them, and his disappearance is what the Jojen paste theorists rely on to infer that he died, right? At least that's my recollection.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Right, in the books it's never clear whether he dies. Bran just looks around for him and Meera and can't find them, and his disappearance is what the Jojen paste theorists rely on to infer that he died, right? At least that's my recollection.

Yeah, that and his progressive weakening over time.

FWIW, I don't buy the Jojen paste theory because it seems weird and pointless. The version of the theory I saw was working from the basic assumption that Martin's work was going to strictly mirror Norse mythology. I don't think that's a sufficient reason dor it without something which makes it a little more sensible.

OTOH, a lot of characters seem to have a more predictable story arc but I don't pretend to have any idea where Bran's story is headed. I mean, it's obvious in a sense but I don't really see how it's going to tie back in a meaningful way.

 

[Corry]

Yeah, that and his progressive weakening over time.

FWIW, I don't buy the Jojen paste theory because it seems weird and pointless. The version of the theory I saw was working from the basic assumption that Martin's work was going to strictly mirror Norse mythology. I don't think that's a sufficient reason dor it without something which makes it a little more sensible.

OTOH, a lot of characters seem to have a more predictable story arc but I don't pretend to have any idea where Bran's story is headed. I mean, it's obvious in a sense but I don't really see how it's going to tie back in a meaningful way.

That's my biggest fear. But, it's leaning more and more like it's going to be a reality. I just don't see how GRRM is going to tie everything up in two books.

 

[IrishLion]

OTOH, a lot of characters seem to have a more predictable story arc but I don't pretend to have any idea where Bran's story is headed. I mean, it's obvious in a sense but I don't really see how it's going to tie back in a meaningful way.

Bran is going to become the Old Gods reincarnate, and will be there to watch from a distance as the Stark bloodline once again resides in the North after all is said and done.