'13 IL RB Ty Isaac (Michigan Transfer)

[koonja]

Trying to understand this block thing..

So if USC blocks him from, say, ND, does that mean Ty can never be on scholarship at ND? Or just that he has to sit out one year?

 

[phork]

Trying to understand this block thing..

So if USC blocks him from, say, ND, does that mean Ty can never be on scholarship at ND? Or just that he has to sit out one year?

They will not release him to go to ND. Only the authorized schools.

 

[koonja]

They will not release him to go to ND. Only the authorized schools.

But if he REALLY wanted to go to ND (I know this isn't happening), and USC blocks ND, can does that mean he would have to sit out for a year before going to ND, or he can literally never in his 4 years be on scholarship at ND?

 

[NDdomer2]

He would have to pay his way at ND to play and that's just not going to happen.

 

[koonja]

He would have to pay his way at ND to play and that's just not going to happen.

Just for that first year? Or for all 4 years?

I know it's not happening, I'm just trying to figure out how fierce this block really is.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Brian Kelly sounded very open to the idea of a potential transfer coming into <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a>. (Re: <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23USC&src=hash">#USC</a> RB Ty Isaac)</p>— Matt Fortuna (@Matt_Fortuna) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matt_Fortuna/statuses/466948457282822145">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Also said <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> "always has an ear to the ground" for potential transfers. Could be open to adding a running back.</p>— Dan Murphy (@BGI_DanMurphy) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_DanMurphy/statuses/466949041314885632">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Kelly said Notre Dame is open to transfers and is considering some at the moment. The preference is they have 3 years of eligibility left.</p>— Eric Hansen (@hansenNDInsider) <a href="https://twitter.com/hansenNDInsider/statuses/466949191483133952">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[GoIrish41]

Just for that first year? Or for all 4 years?

I know it's not happening, I'm just trying to figure out how fierce this block really is.

I believe after a year he could do whatever he wanted to do.

 

[phork]

He can be open all he likes but unless we know if the release was open or a list as indicated above, we gots nothing.

 

[Emcee77]

Trying to understand this block thing..

So if USC blocks him from, say, ND, does that mean Ty can never be on scholarship at ND? Or just that he has to sit out one year?

I've never fully understood how schools accomplish conditional releases mechanically. Do the kids sign something saying that if they get their release, they will not go to certain schools? What power does the original school have to enforce the agreement? Why can't the kids just say whatever they want to get their release and then renege?

But I think it's true that Ty can take a year off from D-I football, then enroll wherever he wants.

Konrad Reuland did that, IIRC. He wanted to transfer to Stanford, which Weis would not allow. He left ND, enrolled in some small college for a brief period of time and then enrolled at Stanford down the road.

Do I have that basically right? Others will remember the details better than I do.

 

[PANDFAN]

I believe after a year he could do whatever he wanted to do.

correct

I've never fully understood how schools accomplish conditional releases mechanically (do the kids sign something saying that if they get their release, they will not go to certain schools? What power does the original school have to enforce the agreement? Why can't the kids just say whatever they want to get their release and then renege?), but I think it's true that Ty can take a year off from D-I football, then enroll wherever he wants.

Konrad Reuland did that, IIRC. He wanted to transfer to Stanford, which Weis would not allow. He left ND, enrolled in some small college for a brief period of time and then enrolled at Stanford down the road.

Others will remember the details better than I do.

by signing the documents to be released from their scholarship is a legal binding document which they are agreeing to the terms...i would assume that the university could go after the former player if in fact they tried to enroll at a college they were blocked from or the ncaa could intervene and rule the person ineligible ---i know far fetched but you get the idea

 

[ResLife Hero]

He would have to pay his way at ND to play and that's just not going to happen.

If his mom's illness puts the family under financial stress, he might qualify for need-based scholarship. As long as he didn't see any game time, that would be allowable right?

I don't have a firm grasp on how the release process works though, and it sounds like USC made it tough for him to choose ND.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Brian Kelly sounded very open to the idea of a potential transfer coming into <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a>. (Re: <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23USC&src=hash">#USC</a> RB Ty Isaac)</p>— Matt Fortuna (@Matt_Fortuna) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matt_Fortuna/statuses/466948457282822145">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Also said <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> "always has an ear to the ground" for potential transfers. Could be open to adding a running back.</p>— Dan Murphy (@BGI_DanMurphy) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_DanMurphy/statuses/466949041314885632">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Kelly said Notre Dame is open to transfers and is considering some at the moment. The preference is they have 3 years of eligibility left.</p>— Eric Hansen (@hansenNDInsider) <a href="https://twitter.com/hansenNDInsider/statuses/466949191483133952">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Emcee77]

correct


by signing the documents to be released from their scholarship is a legal binding document which they are agreeing to the terms...i would assume that the university could go after the former player if in fact they tried to enroll at a college they were blocked from or the ncaa could intervene and rule the person ineligible ---i know far fetched but you get the idea

I don't think the players sign anything with the original school agreeing not to use the release to go to certain schools. They ask for a release from their NLI and the school grants it or doesn't.

I'm gathering that what the players do have to do is specifically request permission to speak with another school about transferring in, PRIOR to actually getting released, and it is at that stage that the original school can exercise discretion by granting permission to contact some schools but not others:
College Athletic Scholarships & Transfer Issues | Informed Athlete | The Allen Group Services, Inc. |

The timing of that permission-to-contact is where the schools wield real power. As this article states about Wes Lunt, Gundy eventually gave Lunt permission to contact certain schools that were near the top of this list, but by the time he did so, it was too late to transfer there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/s...mit-athletes-options.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[PANDFAN]

I don't think the players sign anything with the original school agreeing not to use the release to go to certain schools. They ask for a release from their NLI and the school grants it or doesn't.

I'm gathering that what the players do have to do is specifically request permission to speak with another school about transferring in, PRIOR to actually getting released, and it is at that stage that the original school can exercise discretion by granting permission to contact some schools but not others:
College Athletic Scholarships & Transfer Issues | Informed Athlete | The Allen Group Services, Inc. |

The timing of that permission-to-contact is where the schools wield real power. As this article states about Wes Lunt, Gundy eventually gave Lunt permission to contact certain schools that were near the top of this list, but by the time he did so, it was too late to transfer there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/s...mit-athletes-options.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

fter a massive public outcry, Ryan and Wisconsin partially relented, granting Uthoff a release to any university outside the Big Ten. In the end, the player defied his coach and enrolled at Iowa, foregoing a scholarship so he could go to a Big Ten school. "We can afford to pay for my education for a year," Uthoff told ESPN. In that regard, Uthoff is a lucky guy—a whole lot of college students don’t have that kind of financial freedom. (I know of just one other high-level player, former Tennessee and Kansas State running back Bryce Brown, who has disregarded a coach’s blockade and paid his own way at a new school.)

 

[stlnd01]

If his mom's illness puts the family under financial stress, he might qualify for need-based scholarship. As long as he didn't see any game time, that would be allowable right?

I don't have a firm grasp on how the release process works though, and it sounds like USC made it tough for him to choose ND.

If that need-based scholarship idea actually worked it would drive a truck through the ability of schools to block transfers. Under standard operating procedure transfers already have to sit a year. It's actually better for the receiving program if they don't have to eat a scholarship while they do so. And "need" is totally in the eye of the beholder. Basically that would let you poach from rivals with impunity.
USC can, and perhaps did, make it tough for him to transfer to ND, which is their right. If we're where he really really wanted to be, he could probably go to Holy Cross (or any Juco/Non D-1 program) for a year and then transfer in - assuming he maintained the right grades/courseload. But for the obvious practical reasons that doesn't happen very often.
The whole transfer situation is another example of how the NCAA writes the rules to benefit the institutions instead of the players. But, of course, it's a membership club and they'll do that.
Also these rules cut both ways. I'm sure there are transfers we've blocked to USC over the years, and kids who decided to stick around at Notre Dame instead of sit out a year.

 

[STLDomer]

Wiltfong:

Regarding Notre Dame, there has been no clearance from the Trojans. If the Irish did get clearance, they could certainly be in the mix. Northwestern remains a school to watch. If Michigan has an opportunity they'd likely be in the mix too according to a source.

 

[IrishLax]

So help me God if he ends up at Michigan or Northwestern and is eligible to play this year.......

 

[Emcee77]

fter a massive public outcry, Ryan and Wisconsin partially relented, granting Uthoff a release to any university outside the Big Ten. In the end, the player defied his coach and enrolled at Iowa, foregoing a scholarship so he could go to a Big Ten school. "We can afford to pay for my education for a year," Uthoff told ESPN. In that regard, Uthoff is a lucky guy—a whole lot of college students don’t have that kind of financial freedom. (I know of just one other high-level player, former Tennessee and Kansas State running back Bryce Brown, who has disregarded a coach’s blockade and paid his own way at a new school.)

Are you linking to this?

NCAA transfer rule: College coaches can block their former players from getting scholarships after they transfer. Seriously.

I've read that article too. The passage you quoted is sloppily and misleadingly written, and I think the article as a whole supports my view. Consider this passage, in which the author explains that what he is really talking about here regarding Wisconsin and Ryan is granting Uthoff "permission to contact":

Coaches can block a player’s “permission to contact” for a number of dumb reasons—to prevent a former assistant coach from “poaching” talent, for one—or for no discernible reason at all. In the case of Jarrod Uthoff, Ryan clearly wanted to avoid a future match-up with his ex-player, lest he pass along the deepest, darkest secrets of the Badgers’ playbook. (For that reason, most Division I athletic conferences have rules that make it very difficult for an athlete to transfer to a conference rival.) Michigan basketball coach John Beilein has admitted this reasoning openly, saying, “We don’t want a young man to take our playbook and go to the next school. It just doesn’t make sense.” Now, recall that the NCAA’s stated purpose in having transfers sit out a year is to allow them to adjust academically. Football and basketball coaches’ strategic, playbook-protecting blockades reveal that this is a lie—that the supposedly academic rationale behind transfer restrictions is a cover for purely athletic considerations.

People often talk about granting a release to a particular school, but I think what they are really talking about is permission to contact.

I should say though that that very passage makes me question whether this writer knows what he is talking about at all. The underlined totally misses the issue. The NCAA has a one-year "year-in-residence" requirement to allow transferring athletes to adjust academically to their new school. That is totally separate from the NLI program and granting a release from the NLI and the one-year penalty for breaking it, but this writer doesn't understand this nuance. We know more about transfers than he does.

 

[irish1958]

The NCAA can choose to ignore their own rules when it pleases them. Remember the recent DT debacle with UCLA.

 

[Big23Head]

FWIW, yesterday some of us asked about Isaac over at Irish Eyes. Tim said he had a source to ask in person about Isaac. He says ND is in the mix.

EDIT: BK was one of the people Tim spoke to today.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> HC Brian Kelly didn’t mention former <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23USC&src=hash">#USC</a> RB Ty Isaac but talked of exploring transfer possibilities ($): <a href="http://t.co/Mf9s18OfBw">http://t.co/Mf9s18OfBw</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@NDatRivals) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDatRivals/statuses/466998455949623296">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[gkIrish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Word from the USC campus: Transfer RB Ty Isaac likely to visit Champaign this weekend. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Illini&src=hash">#Illini</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Bolts&src=hash">#Bolts</a> (VIP) <a href="http://t.co/TsTDGCxw5w">http://t.co/TsTDGCxw5w</a></p>— Derek Piper (@DerekPiper247) <a href="https://twitter.com/DerekPiper247/statuses/467067603488624640">May 15, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLax]

Would not mind him transferring to Illinois at all.

 

[Booslum31]

Would not mind him transferring to Illinois at all.

Yeah...if he can't land at ND then Illinois would be a great spot for him.

 

[Luckylucci]

Agreed.

 

[STLDomer]

From the report:

Notre Dame was another school mentioned, but it sounds like USC will not grant him a release to South Bend. Major contenders appear to be Illinois, Michigan, Northern Illinois and Northwestern at this point.

Welp

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Booooooooooo

 

[Crazy Balki]

A part of me wants to say that makes sense, because we play them every year, but another part says that it's kind of a dick move to block a kid to go to a prestigious school such as Notre Dame, however, if education was the first thing on his mind, he would've picked ND the first time around.

 

[IrishLax]

A guy on ISD with ties to the family posted some many hours ago (but I'm just now seeing it) that USC will not release him to any schools on their schedule (i.e. Notre Dame). So he's looking for a B1G school close to home... Illinois, NW, and Michigan seem like the ones in the running.

Apparently, his mother had a surgery that caused her to lose almost all of her hearing and she is suffering from very bad migraines. The poster then went on a rant about people assuming all "hardship" waivers are BS without knowing the facts.

 

[gkIrish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Notre Dame might not be out for Ty Isaac. Per Isaac's mom USC missed a deadline on his release which would allow him to look at any school.</p>— Tom VanHaaren (@TomVH) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomVH/statuses/467118642942214144">May 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ty Isaac's mom said his final four during his recruitment was USC, Notre Dame, Michigan & Auburn. Other teams have been in contact already</p>— Tom VanHaaren (@TomVH) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomVH/statuses/467119141166780416">May 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>