Upshot for the Rest of the Class (2014 Edition)

[Crazy Balki]

Nah, I mean that's just a school policy as far as I'm aware. If you haven't passed admissions, we're not sending you an LOI to sign. Other places will sign as many people as they can and figure out the numbers/qualification later.

Honestly, I think that qualifies as "cheating". How can you sign a player who is not academically eligible yet? There should definitely be a clause forbidding this from happening. It puts Universities like ND who actually hold athletes to an academic standard at a disadvantage, or EVEN MORE OF A DISADVANTAGE!

 

[BGIF]

Nah, I mean that's just a school policy as far as I'm aware. If you haven't passed admissions, we're not sending you an LOI to sign. Other places will sign as many people as they can and figure out the numbers/qualification later.

During most of the Holtz era, offers couldn't be made until Admissions approved a recruit. For questionable recruits admissions wanted first semester senior transcripts running the coaches decision into January. There was a tenuous relationship between Holtaz, Cerrato, and Rooney in Admissions.

There were allegations that Holtz and Cerrato played admissions, holding up submissions of academic info causing admissions to have insufficient time to evaluate some recruits. The Administration also grumbled about an increase in football academic casulties. Football supporters claimed admissions policies was hurting the program. When the NCAA eliminated full time recruiters and Cerrato left ND, the administration was relieved.

ND's football fall began with the '94 season, the year after Cerrato's last recruiting class graduated. In '95 Holtz announced two 5 star players as part of his recruiting class. A day or two later the two superstar recruits were dropped from ND's class. It turned out neither had ever cleared ND admissions. About 18 months later Holtz resigned.

Back then recruiting commitments preseason were rare. JoePA and a couple of other coaches started locking up recruits in summer camps changing the cycle. Then the recruiting services went from 1-800 numbers to the Internet providing 24/7 coverage and stimulating early offers and verbals to feed the news.

ND coaches and Admissions were both in a dilemma. ND required 16 core courses at a time when the NCAA and most schools only required 12. How was Admissions supposed to make a dertimination that a recruit could succeed in ND's academic environment when the student had only taken half or LESS of the courses ND required.

Davie in his first head coaching job was not about to push the way Holtz did. Nor was Willingham. Weis to his credit approached admissions to better understand what admissions looked for and how he and his staff could help rather than hinder the process. His assistants worked at screening recruits better academically and encouraging underclassmen with an interest in ND to take courses ND required before they became seniors to increase their chance at approval and to take their test earlier.

The NCAA requirements have risen through the past few years to 16 core courses. By 2016 the minimum GPA will be 2.3 and recruits will have to take a specified number courses throughout their HS years. This will help ND admissions while possibly reducing the size of the eligible recruiting pool for everybody.

 

[Irish YJ]

There's potential... but there's the rub. Every single year we end up marching a team out there under the 85 limit.

I don't know the answer. But I do know that most teams don't let logjams effect NSD. Seems to work for them. We have taken this same approach of wariness of "oversigning" and then not field a full roster every year. If we want to see that changed, then it seems like continuing to do the same thing would be the definition of insanity.

Amen. It's as simple as mathematics. Just one hypothetical situation..... Let's say that one out of every three 4star recruits is a starter or in the two deep by year three. How many starters are we giving up by running under 85 every year, + constantly keeping 5th year guys who will likely not compare to a potential incoming 4star even it takes that 4star a few years to compete. That's why teams "reload". And I'm OK with a few positions "log jamming" so long as those positions equate to improved ST competition.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Sure, here are the eligible players:
Lombard
Moore
Utupo
Collinsworth

IMHO I would only keep the bolded names. Tell Utupo we will tell him after NSD if we are going to offer a 5th year. And I'd help Collinsworth find somewhere to play if he can.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Amen. It's as simple as mathematics. Just one hypothetical situation..... Let's say that one out of every three 4star recruits is a starter or in the two deep by year three. How many starters are we giving up by running under 85 every year, + constantly keeping 5th year guys who will likely not compare to a potential incoming 4star even it takes that 4star a few years to compete. That's why teams "reload". And I'm OK with a few positions "log jamming" so long as those positions equate to improved ST competition.

Exactly get the best pure football players and athletes you can and figure it out. I agree that being under year after year kills us, especially in a year like 2013 when we needed quality depth to the third man+. I just wish there was a JUCO exemption the team could use with admissions. Either need to figure out a JUCO plan or start taking a lot of transfers. I understand that would be problematic in other ways though.

 

[Rocket 94]

One dynamic will VanGorder evaluating and pursuing new prospects on the DL. Maybe we get back in with a Marcus Griffin or someone else.

 

[Irish YJ]

Exactly get the best pure football players and athletes you can and figure it out. I agree that being under year after year kills us, especially in a year like 2013 when we needed quality depth to the third man+. I just wish there was a JUCO exemption the team could use with admissions. Either need to figure out a JUCO plan or start taking a lot of transfers. I understand that would be problematic in other ways though.

We should take JC transfers.... The reason behind not taking them is old school, pretentious, and just plain unfair to a kid who goes and works his @$$ off for two year to improve his situation and go to a D1 school. If a kid can qualify, why not... ND wants to see themselves as a 4 year school for 4 year students, however we'll take transfers, and see multiple transfers from ND each year on average.

 

[stlnd01]

We should take JC transfers.... The reason behind not taking them is old school, pretentious, and just plain unfair to a kid who goes and works his @$$ off for two year to improve his situation and go to a D1 school. If a kid can qualify, why not... ND wants to see themselves as a 4 year school for 4 year students, however we'll take transfers, and see multiple transfers from ND each year on average.

It's been discussed on here before, but I think the issue is not so much an opposition to JC transfers in and of themselves as the reality that JC transfers are highly unlikely to have the coursework required of any student to graduate from Notre Dame (which includes multiple classes each in math, science, language, theology and philosophy), and are unlikely to be able to squeeze those classes and a regular major in to two years. Most regular-student transfers come between freshman and sophomore year, which gives more time to get through required courses.
To make it work, you'd basically have to go to junior college planning to transfer to Notre Dame specifically, and how many kids are doing that?
The alternative would be watering down graduation requirements for athletes, which seems unlikely. Or set up a farm team at Holy Cross.

 

[STLDomer]

One dynamic will VanGorder evaluating and pursuing new prospects on the DL. Maybe we get back in with a Marcus Griffin or someone else.

Sources say Cooks/Elston/Elliott have a binder full of guys that they liked but Diaco thought were too short.

 

[koonja]

When is VanGorder expected to announce?

Seems like a boring finish (although we're getting Morgan tomorrow, so I cannot complain), but the main thing will be to escape without a decommit. Add Morgan, keep the current class, and we've had a very successful year in recruiting.

Wins=recruits, and since 2015's class is so small and we're going to win more games next year, I'm not against bringing back more 5th year guys and saving a scholarship or two for next year's small class. Of course, this can never be set in stone because who knows what recruit will want in and what 5th year we're talking about, but on the surface this is my feeling.

No info, but I expect at least one commit from somewhere unexpected. Maybe that Terrance CB, maybe Springs who's an Oregon commit, Erik Brown, or someone who's a result of coaching changes. Happens every year it seems.

Lastly, lets all thank Bob Stoops for being a boss yesterday and today on the radio, and pray to God he wants to coach in the NFL, because that means we get Quick IMO. If Stoops stays, he's all Sooner.

 

[NDWorld247]

With Morgan's commitment bringing us to 23, does that mean we have 4 spots left for '14 commits and/or 5Ys (assuming Tuitt comes back)? Without naming names, what's the expected number of transfers/medicals? 1-3?

Assuming we have 4 spots left + 2 transfers, I'd like to see us finish with:

1. CB T. Alexander
2. OG B. Smith
3. WR M. Quick

4. ILB K. Moore
5. OL C. Lombard
6. S A. Collinsworth OR DL J. Utupo

 

[Emcee77]

With Morgan's commitment bringing us to 23, does that mean we have 4 spots left for '14 commits and/or 5Ys (assuming Tuitt comes back)? Without naming names, what's the expected number of transfers/medicals? 1-3?

Assuming we have 4 spots left + 2 transfers, I'd like to see us finish with:

1. CB T. Alexander
2. OG B. Smith
3. WR M. Quick

4. ILB K. Moore
5. OL C. Lombard
6. S A. Collinsworth OR DL J. Utupo

I counted three spots for 5Ys/frosh, assuming Tuitt and GAIII come back and no transfers/medicals (not that I think it will go down like that). I typed this in the Jeff Jones thread yesterday:

I've got 58 non-seniors returning. Lombard is a virtual certainty for a 5Y so let's say 59 returning. That number could rise to 62 (Kendall Moore, Collinsworth and Utupo could all conceivably return) or fall to 57 (we could take none of Moore, Collinsworth and Utupo and lose Tuitt and GAIII to the NFL).

Right now we have 23 commits counting Morgan (as apparently the staff is). So we are at 85 already if everyone comes back, which I think we want to happen; I do, anyway. The only player of the 5 bubble guys that I could take or leave is GAIII, and even he is a real asset on kick returns. We have little experienced depth at Moore and Utupo's positions, Collinsworth can provide veteran leadership and consistency, and Tuitt speaks for himself.

We are still pursuing, and have a decent shot at, McKenzie/Nelson, Juju, Quick, Braden Smith, Alexander, and Holley (per Loy ... depends on whether PSU's new coach retains Larry Johnson). Then there's P. Hendrix hanging around, whom we could maybe flip if we made a NSD-eve push.

 

[Brooklyn]

With Morgan's commitment bringing us to 23, does that mean we have 4 spots left for '14 commits and/or 5Ys (assuming Tuitt comes back)? Without naming names, what's the expected number of transfers/medicals? 1-3?

Assuming we have 4 spots left + 2 transfers, I'd like to see us finish with:

1. CB T. Alexander
2. OG B. Smith
3. WR M. Quick

4. ILB K. Moore
5. OL C. Lombard
6. S A. Collinsworth OR DL J. Utupo

If everyone comes back and Tuitt stays we have three scholarships remaining (without any 5th year SRs). With Lombard and Moore back this is how we look:

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/1199436-post143.html

I would think Tuitt, George Atkinson III, Josh Atkinson, Jalen Brown, John Turner have some chance of transferring (leaving to the draft). Also the unknown transfer/medical scholarship always happens.

 

[NDWorld247]

Thanks, guys. With three scholarships, and assuming the draft/transfers and 5Ys cancel each other out, I think my top 3 wants are, in order:

Alexander - going to be a stud and you can never have enough studs at CB.

B. Smith - better than any guard, with the exception of Bivin if you consider him a guard, we've signed in the past two classes.

M. Quick - explosive athlete with position versatility. I'm not real confident we land him, but among the remaining targets, he may be the most likely.

I think JuJu is gone. Would love to land Schultz, but very likely not happening unless Luatua pulls out and we make a strong push towards NSD. I like McKenzie A LOT more than Nelson (I haven't followed his recruitment much), and would love for him to be a part of this class, but I'm leaning towards the pessimistic reports on his situation.

 

[yankeeND]

Thanks, guys. With three scholarships, and assuming the draft/transfers and 5Ys cancel each other out, I think my top 3 wants are, in order:

Alexander - going to be a stud and you can never have enough studs at CB.

B. Smith - better than any guard, with the exception of Bivin if you consider him a guard, we've signed in the past two classes.

M. Quick - explosive athlete with position versatility. I'm not real confident we land him, but among the remaining targets, he may be the most likely.

I think JuJu is gone. Would love to land Schultz, but very likely not happening unless Luatua pulls out and we make a strong push towards NSD. I like McKenzie A LOT more than Nelson (I haven't followed his recruitment much), and would love for him to be a part of this class, but I'm leaning towards the pessimistic reports on his situation.

I could live with that. Do you think any of the three wants at likely? I was just sitting here thinking we are probably done but with a whole month to go who knows?

 

[NDWorld247]

I could live with that. Do you think any of the three wants at likely? I was just sitting here thinking we are probably done but with a whole month to go who knows?

I wouldn't say likely, but I like where we stand with the first two, Alexander and Smith.

From reports it sounds like Alexander will give ND an honest look, along with some other schools. He could fall in love with campus, etc, or decide it's not for him. I don't know, but I like that he's going to come to campus and check it out.

As for Smith, I've always liked our chances. He's visiting this month and I think it's a TCU/ND battle, as it's been for months. We'll see...

I definitely don't think we're done. My guess is we take at least two more.

 

[Redbar]

Does anyone think we have a shot with Moten now that Golden is leaving or with another DT?

 

[irishff1014]

Does anyone think we have a shot with Moten now that Golden is leaving or with another DT?

Doubtful i think they like the Miami.

 

[yankeeND]

I wouldn't say likely, but I like where we stand with the first two, Alexander and Smith.

From reports it sounds like Alexander will give ND an honest look, along with some other schools. He could fall in love with campus, etc, or decide it's not for him. I don't know, but I like that he's going to come to campus and check it out.

As for Smith, I've always liked our chances. He's visiting this month and I think it's a TCU/ND battle, as it's been for months. We'll see...

I definitely don't think we're done. My guess is we take at least two more.

Awesome, thanks bro!

 

[woolybug25]

I wouldn't care if we got any other commits if we somehow could land Braden Smith. That would be a game changing peice for us. Our Oline is already looking pretty sick going forward. But Smith would just give us unreal depth there.

 

[yankeeND]

I wouldn't care if we got any other commits if we somehow could land Braden Smith. That would be a game changing peice for us. Our Oline is already looking pretty sick going forward. But Smith would just give us unreal depth there.

Agree with this completely. Smith would be a huge get.

 

[Ironman8]

In terms of wants out of the rest or of our targets:

1. JuJu Smith
2. Terrence Alexander
3. Miciah Quick
4. Braden Smith
5. Dalton Schultz
6. Isaiah McKenzie
7. Charles Nelson

 

[Me2SouthBend]

In terms of wants out of the rest or of our targets:

1. JuJu Smith
2. Terrence Alexander
3. Miciah Quick
4. Braden Smith
5. Dalton Schultz
6. Isaiah McKenzie
7. Charles Nelson

Great list. I would only insert Solomon Thomas (if it is a possibility) between Smith and Schultz or even between Quick and Smith.

 

[woolybug25]

In terms of wants out of the rest or of our targets:

1. JuJu Smith
2. Terrence Alexander
3. Miciah Quick
4. Braden Smith
5. Dalton Schultz
6. Isaiah McKenzie
7. Charles Nelson

Mine:

1) Braden Smith
2) JuJu Smith
3) Miciah Quick
4) Isaiah McKenzie
5) Terrance Alexander
6) Dalton Shultz

 

[gkIrish]

Mine:

1) Braden Smith
2) JuJu Smith
3) Miciah Quick
4) Isaiah McKenzie
5) Terrance Alexander
6) Dalton Shultz

Mine is

1) JuJu Smith


2) Miciah Quick
3) Braden Smith
4) Isaiah McKenzie
5) Terrance Alexander

 

[Brooklyn]

Mine:

1) Braden Smith
2) JuJu Smith
3) Miciah Quick
4) Isaiah McKenzie
5) Terrance Alexander
6) Dalton Shultz

Like yours a little more. This is how I'd rank em:

Miciah Quick
Braden Smith
Isaiah McKenzie
JuJu Smith
Terrance Alexander
Dalton Shultz
Charles Nelson

Mainly have JuJu at #4, because I'd rather have a shifty receiver/kick returner at this point than a safety.

 

[Kak7304]

Could be a crazy end to recruiting with all the big coaching vacancies and changes. I wouldn't be surprised if we picked up someone we weren't expecting or if we lost a recruit or two. Would love to see us make a late push for Holley.

 

[deise mike]

I am cautious about flipping people at this stage. It hasn't worked out well recently, Lynch, Kiel, EVD etc.

 

[dwshade]

If I'm not mistaken Smith is adamant about playing tackle. I believe he agreed to visit ND only after they told him he could play tackle.

 

[Irish YJ]

Does anyone have an educated guess about the "VanGorder" effect. Other than marvelous hair, and the passionate stache, anyone have any insightful thoughts about how he might impact recruiting this year. Part of me hopes he can dial up a few studs in the South at this late stage.