Silly Season '13 (Coaching Changes)

[ACamp1900]

So you think they would have gone undefeated in the SEC with Vandy's schedule?

He yup'd my point, which was they would have a higher chance of winning all of them than losing all of them... your post that listed those games seemed to imply they'd lose each, or at least three...

 

[woolybug25]

Can i make a point that may be unpopular... just chew on it for a while... if eight wins at Vandy is nothing to pump your chest at, then how in the world is Brian Kelly anywhere near the top 15 coaches in the country list???

A plus .700 winning pct with two undefeated seasons with two teams. Several wins over ranked teams. Great recruiter. Very nice pair of boots.

 

[ACamp1900]

A plus .700 winning pct with two undefeated seasons with two teams. Several wins over ranked teams. Great recruiter. Very nice pair of boots.

I guess the boots settles it...

 

[IrishJayhawk]

He yup'd my point, which was they would have a higher chance of winning all of them than losing all of them... your post that listed those games seemed to imply they'd lose each, or at least three...

That's why I asked for clarification. Unclear what he would predict.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Can i make a point that may be unpopular... just chew on it for a while... if eight wins at Vandy is nothing to pump your chest at, then how in the world is Brian Kelly anywhere near the top 15 coaches in the country list???

I don't want to make Wooly's argument for him because I don't agree with his underlying point, but Brian Kelly has had seasons with 13, 14, 14, 10, 11, 12 and 12 wins in his career, plus another four 9-win seasons with another one 10 days away. Franklin has one nine win season. The obvious counter-argument is that a lot of Kelly's big seasons were in lower-tier jobs and he has worked many more years, but still there is something there to point to to "prove" he can do it. Personally, I think Franklin will win double-digit games multiple times before his career is over.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I don't want to make Wooly's argument for him because I don't agree with his underlying point, but Brian Kelly has had seasons with 13, 14, 14, 10, 11, 12 and 12 wins in his career, plus another four 9-win seasons with another one 10 days away. Franklin has one nine win season. The obvious counter-argument is that a lot of Kelly's big seasons were in lower-tier jobs and he has worked many more years, but still there is something there to point to to "prove" he can do it. Personally, I think Franklin will win double-digit games multiple times before his career is over.

Franklin is also averaging more wins per season in at Vandy (7.7) than Mack Brown has averaged in his last 4 years at Texas (7.5).

EDIT: I just wanted to reiterate that Franklin coaches at Vandy.

 

[woolybug25]

Franklin is also averaging more wins per season in at Vandy (7.7) than Mack Brown has averaged in his last 4 years at Texas (7.5).

EDIT: I just wanted to reiterate that Franklin coaches at Vandy.

And less wins than Mack against ranked teams.

Mack wouldn't cry at a press conference either.

 

[ACamp1900]

I thought the ND tie would make my point easily lost… the qualifier is this point that seems to be the whole problem here, that 8 wins at Vandy isn’t good enough or impressive... Well, if it isn’t good enough THERE…….. also, if what happened ten years ago is a standard for ranking today then where do we put Mack Brown?? (assuming we are just ranking coaches and not ranking those in line for his job) He, of course is still an active coach. Anyway,…

 

[IrishJayhawk]

And less wins than Mack against ranked teams.

Mack wouldn't cry at a press conference either.

Great point.

 

[pkt77242]

You stated very clearly that he is a top 15 coach. Then stated you would take him over Dantonio on my list of 15. What am I missing?

I actually stated he was for sure a top 25 and maybe a top 15 coach. Go back and read it. I also never commented on who I would take Franklin over on your list. I just pointed out that most of those people weren't going to take the Texas job and that of the maybe 3 people who would take that job he would be viewed the same as Dantonio by the fan base as in he wouldn't be viewed as a homerun hire like Saban would have been. Nice try. Try again.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Mack has 4 wins against ranked opponents in the last 4 years.
2013 - Oklahoma
2013 - Texas Tech & Oregon State
2010 - Nebraska

At Texas.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Franklin is also averaging more wins per season in at Vandy (7.7) than Mack Brown has averaged in his last 4 years at Texas (7.5).

EDIT: I just wanted to reiterate that Franklin coaches at Vandy.

I'm on my phone and looking this up is a huge pain in the ass so if someone can help me there's a rep. I seem to recall that vandy didn't beat a team with a winning record last year. So yeah, they won 8 regular season games but good lord that's soft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Mack has 4 wins against ranked opponents in the last 4 years.
2013 - Oklahoma
2013 - Texas Tech & Oregon State
2010 - Nebraska

At Texas.

And he got forced out for it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[woolybug25]

Mack has 4 wins against ranked opponents in the last 4 years.
2013 - Oklahoma
2013 - Texas Tech & Oregon State
2010 - Nebraska

At Texas.

And he's getting fired for it. That's three more than Franklin has in his career and he's being anointed as one of the best out there. That's a pretty drastic difference.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I'm on my phone and looking this up is a huge pain in the ass so if someone can help me there's a rep. I seem to recall that vandy didn't beat a team with a winning record last year. So yeah, they won 8 regular season games but good lord that's soft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last year they beat Ole Miss and NC State, both of whom were 7-6.

Looks like that's it.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Last year they beat Ole Miss and NC State, both of whom were 7-6.

Looks like that's it.

Were they 7-5 or 6-6 pre bowl game


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ACamp1900]

Brown got fired??

 

[Rhode Irish]

And he's getting fired for it. That's three more than Franklin has in his career and he's being anointed as one of the best out there. That's a pretty drastic difference.

OK, let's pretend Mack and Franklin swapped rosters and schedules (or...errr...jobs), would you bet your house that Franklin would not have done better than Mack did over the last few years? Or that Mack would have done more than Franklin? Gun to your head, who would you take? I'd take Franklin.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

And he's getting fired for it. That's three more than Franklin has in his career and he's being anointed as one of the best out there. That's a pretty drastic difference.

As pkt pointed out, though...Vandy has 60-70 rated recruiting classes in their sophomore through senior classes. Texas has top 5 classes.

I'll give you that his resume is short. I just don't think it's as questionable as you think.

And you still haven't told me what record you think Michigan State would have had with Vandy's schedule this year.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm on my phone and looking this up is a huge pain in the ass so if someone can help me there's a rep. I seem to recall that vandy didn't beat a team with a winning record last year. So yeah, they won 8 regular season games but good lord that's soft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They beat Ole Miss, who was 7-6. Their best regular season win and only win against a team with a winning record last year.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

OK, let's pretend Mack and Franklin swapped rosters and schedules (or...errr...jobs), would you bet your house that Franklin would not have done better than Mack did over the last few years? Or that Mack would have done more than Franklin? Gun to your head, who would you take? I'd take Franklin.

That might be the case but does that mean he is the man for the job or is worthy of the job? Doing better than a guy who is getting booted isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Were they 7-5 or 6-6 pre bowl game


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last year they were 8-4 pre bowl and had played one team with a winning record. Then they beat NC State in the bowl to go 9-4 on the season.

 

[ACamp1900]

Last year they were 8-4 pre bowl and had played one team with a winning record. Then they beat NC State in the bowl to go 9-4 on the season.

He won 9 Games!!!!! At freaking Vandy!!!!

VANDY!!!!!


What are we even talking bout here?!? I ain't got time pho all dis!

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Last year they were 8-4 pre bowl and had played one team with a winning record. Then they beat NC State in the bowl to go 9-4 on the season.

I meant the teams they beat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I meant the teams they beat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I see. Good point. Ole Miss beat Pitt in a bowl to go 7-6. They were 6-6 going in.

 

[Rhode Irish]

That might be the case but does that mean he is the man for the job or is worthy of the job? Doing better than a guy who is getting booted isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha...no. You're right, it isn't. I was only arguing the point as it pertained to Mack Brown, though. I don't know if he is the "right" man for the job (nobody will until later), but I think he could be the "best" man for the job depending on who else they could bring in. I think he is at least worthy of consideration.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

He won 9 Games!!!!! At freaking Vandy!!!!

VANDY!!!!!


What are we even talking bout here?!? I ain't got time pho all dis!

I still just don't understand this argument. It does not follow that a team that has sucked will continue to suck. You role over the entire roster every 4 years and have significant turnover year to year. Historical success is not a good measure for future success and historical failure doesn't mean suck forever. The dude can recruit his ass off and he has changed the culture of vandy football. But he still only has one win over a team he shouldn't have beat. Texas needs a culture change, sure, but I'm not sure that simply doing that means Texas will be back, which is the goal of this hire


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gkIrish]

Some of you seem to forget BK came from Cincinnati. Overachieving with inferior talent = good coaching.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Some of you seem to forget BK came from Cincinnati. Overachieving with inferior talent = good coaching.

I don't think Franklin is overachieving


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[woolybug25]

As pkt pointed out, though...Vandy has 60-70 rated recruiting classes in their sophomore through senior classes. Texas has top 5 classes.

I'll give you that his resume is short. I just don't think it's as questionable as you think.

And you still haven't told me what record you think Michigan State would have had with Vandy's schedule this year.

Since you responded to ACamp, I assumed we were past that. My answer is the same as his.

Regardless of his recruiting classes, he still only has one win over ranked teams. Even if Mack's teams are, say... Four times as talented. Then Mack is getting fired for the same results as Franklin is getting praised for.

Poor recruiting classes never stopped guys like Peterson, Patterson and Briles from beating ranked teams on big stages. That's how they got their reputations. Franklin is getting more love than those dudes for winning less than half of his conference games, 60% of all games (includes cupcakes) and beating one ranked team.