'13 CA DT Eddie Vanderdoes (UCLA)

[Irish8248]

we had 3 DL last year thogh, 2 of which were DTs..... this year we only have 1 -- which im very thankful for lol -- and thats assuming AQM will be on the outside like a shembo.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

They have plenty of quality talent that can play DT. Thats not an issue. ND has 2 spots left. 3 if 1 of Carlo/Fox dont return. Ideally you want Carlo and Fox back next year so that the middle is totally depleted. Don't get me wrong I'd take Eddie in a heartbeat, but to theres a reason why ND hasnt been in contact with him since early summer and that reason isnt bc he was verbally committed. I think when all these big names come into the picture that the biggest factors in recruiting/numbers game is lost. You cant put a price on a 5th year guy that has experience, and you have to realize that there is a master list and kids that do rank higher due to need to balance the depth chart out.

Example.

Say ND gets Redfield, AQM.

ND needs quality depth at safety. AQM provides depth at DE which is needed. DE depth means that you can develop and move guys to a swing position aka KAP/Tuitt/Kona/Springmann/Hounshell, where they can play DE or inside in 4 man fronts. Springmann/Kona are more than capable of holding down the middle in a 3-4 as well. So therefore Vanderdoes isnt a position of immediate need if ND decides to fill a 3rd spot. That 3rd spot can be left open for him obviously, but ND needs a playmaking WR (Treadwell), running back (Bryant,Folston), CB (Willis, Moore, Alexander,Hawkins).



The staff is really good at letting these kids know where they stand in the process. So if by some chance ND gets a Folston/Bryant then im fairly certain Jamel isnt coming, so they have already built a connection with Vanderdoes if he does infact like ND more than lip service. Its a great strategy bc last year the staff did a hell of a job, but got burned at the end bc of 18 year olds changing their minds. They are planting the seed so if they do get burned theres something to potentially push at another kid. Its great that top kids are open to ND and letting ND visit and give their pitch. But 2013 is pretty much wrapped up and the effects of 12-0 is going to be seen in the 2014 class instead of 2013.

Last year the staff pushed BCS and it didnt happen. They stepped away from that to a point this year, but sold ND. Like we all say, ND sells itself. The staff learned from experience and has pulled in a hell of a class. Now if ND has this season last year, you would have seen more a stable class come in. Algohlor may have legit considered ND, Darby may have stuck it out, Poole may have flipped...etc. 2014 kids have seen the progress, and that it can be done. So those questions the 2012 class had that never got answered...now can be answered.

 

[ThePiombino]

Tommy Schutt Part II

Ugh. Can't help but feel this would eventually come back to bite us in the ***. Nix won't be around forever, and probably not long enough to allow time for someone in the '14 class to mature enough to step in.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Lol on Tommy Schutt...theres a reason why the big boys pulled their schollys and he ended up at osu. Ill take Sheldon Day everyday of the week.

And its not even comparable to Schutt. Schutt was going to commit to ND. Vanderdoes hasnt talked to ND since early summer and vice versa, and is committed to usc lol. Lord have mercy

 

[ThePiombino]

They have plenty of quality talent that can play DT. Thats not an issue. ND has 2 spots left. 3 if 1 of Carlo/Fox dont return. Ideally you want Carlo and Fox back next year so that the middle is totally depleted. Don't get me wrong I'd take Eddie in a heartbeat, but to theres a reason why ND hasnt been in contact with him since early summer and that reason isnt bc he was verbally committed. I think when all these big names come into the picture that the biggest factors in recruiting/numbers game is lost. You cant put a price on a 5th year guy that has experience, and you have to realize that there is a master list and kids that do rank higher due to need to balance the depth chart out.

Example.

Say ND gets Redfield, AQM.

ND needs quality depth at safety. AQM provides depth at DE which is needed. DE depth means that you can develop and move guys to a swing position aka KAP/Tuitt/Kona/Springmann/Hounshell, where they can play DE or inside in 4 man fronts. Springmann/Kona are more than capable of holding down the middle in a 3-4 as well. So therefore Vanderdoes isnt a position of immediate need if ND decides to fill a 3rd spot. That 3rd spot can be left open for him obviously, but ND needs a playmaking WR (Treadwell), running back (Bryant,Folston), CB (Willis, Moore, Alexander,Hawkins).



The staff is really good at letting these kids know where they stand in the process. So if by some chance ND gets a Folston/Bryant then im fairly certain Jamel isnt coming, so they have already built a connection with Vanderdoes if he does infact like ND more than lip service. Its a great strategy bc last year the staff did a hell of a job, but got burned at the end bc of 18 year olds changing their minds. They are planting the seed so if they do get burned theres something to potentially push at another kid. Its great that top kids are open to ND and letting ND visit and give their pitch. But 2013 is pretty much wrapped up and the effects of 12-0 is going to be seen in the 2014 class instead of 2013.

Last year the staff pushed BCS and it didnt happen. They stepped away from that to a point this year, but sold ND. Like we all say, ND sells itself. The staff learned from experience and has pulled in a hell of a class. Now if ND has this season last year, you would have seen more a stable class come in. Algohlor may have legit considered ND, Darby may have stuck it out, Poole may have flipped...etc. 2014 kids have seen the progress, and that it can be done. So those questions the 2012 class had that never got answered...now can be answered.

Great post. Reps.

 

[Luckylucci]

Agreed very well said. I just thought he'd be in that too good to pass up category.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

ND needs quality depth at safety. AQM provides depth at DE which is needed. DE depth means that you can develop and move guys to a swing position aka KAP/Tuitt/Kona/Springmann/Hounshell, where they can play DE or inside in 4 man fronts. Springmann/Kona are more than capable of holding down the middle in a 3-4 as well. So therefore Vanderdoes isnt a position of immediate need if ND decides to fill a 3rd spot. That 3rd spot can be left open for him obviously, but ND needs a playmaking WR (Treadwell), running back (Bryant,Folston), CB (Willis, Moore, Alexander,Hawkins).

Color me skeptical. I'm thrilled those two have been able to provide quality depth behind Nix, but Big Lou is the best NT in the nation. He was a huge part (literally) of all those goal-line stands this year, and I'd be hard pressed to name a more important member of our defense.

We don't have anyone else like him on our roster. I'm terrified for our DL after he leaves. How is DT not the top position of need?

 

[Rhode Irish]

They have plenty of quality talent that can play DT. Thats not an issue. ND has 2 spots left. 3 if 1 of Carlo/Fox dont return. Ideally you want Carlo and Fox back next year so that the middle is totally depleted. Don't get me wrong I'd take Eddie in a heartbeat, but to theres a reason why ND hasnt been in contact with him since early summer and that reason isnt bc he was verbally committed. I think when all these big names come into the picture that the biggest factors in recruiting/numbers game is lost. You cant put a price on a 5th year guy that has experience, and you have to realize that there is a master list and kids that do rank higher due to need to balance the depth chart out.

Example.

Say ND gets Redfield, AQM.

ND needs quality depth at safety. AQM provides depth at DE which is needed. DE depth means that you can develop and move guys to a swing position aka KAP/Tuitt/Kona/Springmann/Hounshell, where they can play DE or inside in 4 man fronts. Springmann/Kona are more than capable of holding down the middle in a 3-4 as well. So therefore Vanderdoes isnt a position of immediate need if ND decides to fill a 3rd spot. That 3rd spot can be left open for him obviously, but ND needs a playmaking WR (Treadwell), running back (Bryant,Folston), CB (Willis, Moore, Alexander,Hawkins).



The staff is really good at letting these kids know where they stand in the process. So if by some chance ND gets a Folston/Bryant then im fairly certain Jamel isnt coming, so they have already built a connection with Vanderdoes if he does infact like ND more than lip service. Its a great strategy bc last year the staff did a hell of a job, but got burned at the end bc of 18 year olds changing their minds. They are planting the seed so if they do get burned theres something to potentially push at another kid. Its great that top kids are open to ND and letting ND visit and give their pitch. But 2013 is pretty much wrapped up and the effects of 12-0 is going to be seen in the 2014 class instead of 2013.

Last year the staff pushed BCS and it didnt happen. They stepped away from that to a point this year, but sold ND. Like we all say, ND sells itself. The staff learned from experience and has pulled in a hell of a class. Now if ND has this season last year, you would have seen more a stable class come in. Algohlor may have legit considered ND, Darby may have stuck it out, Poole may have flipped...etc. 2014 kids have seen the progress, and that it can be done. So those questions the 2012 class had that never got answered...now can be answered.

All due respect, this kid would be my number one target if we have a legit shot with him. In this defense, there is no position as important as nose tackle. Louis Nix has shown that - in my opinion Manti should win the Heisman and Tuitt is a freak, but Nix makes the biggest difference in this defense. Maybe Springmann and Kona could be serviceable, but a stud in that spot is the difference between a good defense and a great one. Redfield and AQM are both terrific and both are positions of need on this roster. A Bryant or a Treadwell would also be steal in a position we could use a guy or two. But to me, based on what I've seen this year, I'd take Vanderdoes first among them, 10 times out of 10.

 

[D-BOE34]

Color me skeptical. I'm thrilled those two have been able to provide quality depth behind Nix, but Big Lou is the best NT in the nation. He was a huge part (literally) of all those goal-line stands this year, and I'd be hard pressed to name a more important member of our defense.

We don't have anyone else like him on our roster. I'm terrified for our DL after he leaves. How is DT not the top position of need?

Nix started as an over weight redshirt. I am convinced that a few solid NT can be good enough with the young depth we have at other positions. Don't get me wrong, it is hard to replace a Nix. The rest of the D has to step up. Just don't count out a guy like Rochell or Jones just yet. We always look at the recruits this time of year against the guys on board who are yet to be seen. Next year will say a lot more on where we stand. Nix will be back for one more.

 

[BeauBenken]

I don't know if we've reached that point yet.

Apologies. My attempt at bad humor.

 

[SoJerseyIrish]

So the facts are that we haven't spoken to him in around 6 months, they just talked to him and did an 'in home' visit........and that is pretty much all that is happening right now.

Call me crazy if you want but I just don't see much happening here, this sounds more like an attempt for ND to grab some headlines in recruiting and to make USC uncomfortable and put the screws to them a little on the recruiting trail. Get this kid in for an official visit and then we can get excited, otherwise, I think this is a non-event and just a nice way to keep ND's name in the recruiting headlines.

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Color me skeptical. I'm thrilled those two have been able to provide quality depth behind Nix, but Big Lou is the best NT in the nation. He was a huge part (literally) of all those goal-line stands this year, and I'd be hard pressed to name a more important member of our defense.

We don't have anyone else like him on our roster. I'm terrified for our DL after he leaves. How is DT not the top position of need?

+1
The 3-4 defence is completely dependent on a nose tackle that is able to take up double teams and keep the linebackers free from o-line blocks. The bonus with Nix is that he can break through and distrupt the qb too. I like that we are consistently getting good defensive ends but 2014 is scary when we lose Nix and Kona and only really have Springman as the proven player. Unless Jones or Day move to Nose next year or they switch to a 4-3 then I think a real defensive tackle that can play nose is needed. The guys don't just grow on trees. I would probably take him over anyone that ND has left on the board.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Schutt is exactly who I thought of. It's not exactly the same circumstances, but if this staff is seriously willing to pass on Eddie because he's not ahead of some others, they're crazy. This staff does a helluva job recruiting, but the reason ND is going to the Ship is because of our front seven. We need to keep the cupboards stocked full of elite DL to maintain this dominant defense. Btw, no one is questioning the choice to pick Day over Schutt. The problem is that people wanted BOTH. This team could've used BOTH. In the end, there was room for BOTH. Never pass on an elite DL. Never. Based on the current depth chart, and the current commits at their respected positions, you can't convince me that another RB or WR should be ahead of a top 10 DT. Sorry just my two cents.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Color me skeptical. I'm thrilled those two have been able to provide quality depth behind Nix, but Big Lou is the best NT in the nation. He was a huge part (literally) of all those goal-line stands this year, and I'd be hard pressed to name a more important member of our defense.

We don't have anyone else like him on our roster. I'm terrified for our DL after he leaves. How is DT not the top position of need?

+1 Springmann and Kona may in fact be serviceable, but Lou is a difference maker. He isn't just "filling the middle."

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Surprised no one said it yet but he said his visit with ND went great, UW went good. Twitter

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Surprised no one said it yet but he said his visit with ND went great, UW went good. Twitter

Doesn't matter. "No room in the inn."

I'm not buying it. Hypothetically, if he were to commit today, I don't foresee the staff saying, "No thanks, we're full."

Does anyone know if that visit last night pushed us into the top 5 for OVs? Last I knew he was only visiting ND if he didn't visit LSU...

 

[koonja]

I respect TP, but I hope you're wrong on this one. Elite defensive/offensive linemen (DTs specifically) are the most important position, spare quarterbacks.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I don't see him coming to ND at all. Besides being late to the party and sitting in 6th place before last night, we also run a 3-4 and he fancies himself in a 4-3. TONS of ground to make up PLUS he's still committed to another school that is local PLUS we don't play the defense he likes PLUS he dropped us out of his top 10 (top 15?) a long time ago, so it's not like we just missed out on him.

I just wouldn't get your hopes up yet...

 

[koonja]

I don't see him coming to ND at all. Besides being late to the party and sitting in 6th place before last night, we also run a 3-4 and he fancies himself in a 4-3. TONS of ground to make up PLUS he's still committed to another school that is local PLUS we don't play the defense he likes PLUS he dropped us out of his top 10 (top 15?) a long time ago, so it's not like we just missed out on him.

I just wouldn't get your hopes up yet...

[Glass half full guy].

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this season I bet we've ran 4-3 over 3-4 about 2-1 ratio. Staff would make that very clear I'm sure. He agreed to meet with Denbrock. He's obviously interested to see what ND offers and what ND offers right now is unbeatable (granted, it depends on your priorities). Plus, his former, future teammate, Max Redfield (also a local boy) has jumped shipped and it looks like he's headed to ND. Plus, he's visiting ND (isn't he?). Cali boys don't visit ND, mid-winter, when there's not even a game to attend.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

NDinLA is being very rational and non-argumentative. Listen to what he says.

But before that post, it seems to me some of you need to listen more and argue less.

I am all of a sudden very sensible to people's attitudes. The Chicken Little skies are falling folks have not shuffled off this mortal coyle; they are just trying to get ND to stock up on the wrong kind of big uglies, just to have plenty of big uglies. And when that doesn't work . . . the sky will be falling . . .

 

[ThePiombino]

[Glass half full guy].

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this season I bet we've ran 4-3 over 3-4 about 2-1 ratio. Staff would make that very clear I'm sure. He agreed to meet with Denbrock. He's obviously interested to see what ND offers and what ND offers right now is unbeatable (granted, it depends on your priorities). Plus, his former, future teammate, Max Redfield (also a local boy) has jumped shipped and it looks like he's headed to ND. Plus, he's visiting ND (isn't he?). Cali boys don't visit ND, mid-winter when there's not even a game he'd be going to see.

A few things to focus on:

* #1 defense
* #1 grad rate
* #1 ranked team
* heir apparent to future 1st round pick

^some things have changed since he last evaluated us as a potential suitor.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

[Glass half full guy].

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this season I bet we've ran 4-3 over 3-4 about 2-1 ratio. Staff would make that very clear I'm sure. He agreed to meet with Denbrock. He's obviously interested to see what ND offers and what ND offers right now is unbeatable (granted, it depends on your priorities). Plus, his former, future teammate, Max Redfield (also a local boy) has jumped shipped and it looks like he's headed to ND. Plus, he's visiting ND (isn't he?). Cali boys don't visit ND, mid-winter when there's not even a game he'd be going to see.

We never ran a 4-3. We ran a 4-2-5. Different animal entirely. What allowed us to do this, because whe had the meat, was an incredible freak-of-an-athlete, Danny Spond. I was always a big Danny fan, but what he did this year is give us a 250lb cornerback. Who could play. Lights out. From coverage of a number two, to shocking a tight end to coming up and playing the run extrordinarily, (how many people could knock the ball out of Denards hands when he was healthy? Hell, most people couldn't even get a decent hit on!)

 

[koonja]

We never ran a 4-3. We ran a 4-2-5. Different animal entirely. What allowed us to do this, because whe had the meat, was an incredible freak-of-an-athlete, Danny Spond. I was always a big Danny fan, but what he did this year is give us a 250lb cornerback. Who could play. Lights out. From coverage of a number two, to shocking a tight end to coming up and playing the run extrordinarily, (how many people could knock the ball out of Denards hands when he was healthy? Hell, most people couldn't even get a decent hit on!)

Scheme wise, no doubt. But IDK how much that matters to a DL who wants to play in a 4-down scheme. It's still 4-down.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Just different line techniques.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

lol. the scheme is huge. aka aaron lynch. the primary reason he committed to fsu was bc of the scheme. he saw himself as a 4-3 guy that attacked the qb on every play instead of a 3-4 guy where gap control is essential so you cant just rush anytime you want. ND runs a 3-4 where everything is based on gap control and DL have to be disciplined to stay in those gaps so the LBs can make plays. ND gets after the QB bc they have talent...but make no mistake Diaco isnt running a Steelers/Ravens 3-4 where you have blitzes coming from everywhere.

To those who think we should have taken Day and Schutt...ND was not the only school to pull his offer that could have used a big body.

Like I said before, Vanderdoes would be a awesome addition to the class, but ND can't take everyone who would want to come. From everything I have heard theres a better chance that Bryant comes to ND before Vanderdoes and Bryant is a longshot at this point

 

[koonja]

lol. the scheme is huge. aka aaron lynch. the primary reason he committed to fsu was bc of the scheme. he saw himself as a 4-3 guy that attacked the qb on every play instead of a 3-4 guy where gap control is essential so you cant just rush anytime you want. ND runs a 3-4 where everything is based on gap control and DL have to be disciplined to stay in those gaps so the LBs can make plays. ND gets after the QB bc they have talent...but make no mistake Diaco isnt running a Steelers/Ravens 3-4 where you have blitzes coming from everywhere.

To those who think we should have taken Day and Schutt...ND was not the only school to pull his offer that could have used a big body.

Like I said before, Vanderdoes would be a awesome addition to the class, but ND can't take everyone who would want to come. From everything I have heard theres a better chance that Bryant comes to ND before Vanderdoes and Bryant is a longshot at this point

TP, but how often are we in a 4-down scheme? It seems that we have 4-down more than 3-down.

 

[ND NYC]

the admiral and torii hunter senior could free up some schollys

 

[Emcee77]

Sounds like there's too much up in the air to know what's going to happen here, but it's exciting that we're still aggressively pursuing top prospects like this guy.

Obviously we won't have room for all the top prospects we are pursuing; there could be as few as 2 spots left, which are promised to AQM and Redfield. But you don't know how things will shake out with 5Ys, career-ending injuries and decommits (there could be as many as 5 spots left), so it's great that we are staying aggressive on the recruiting trail.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

TP, but how often are we in a 4-down scheme? It seems that we have 4-down more than 3-down.

It is angle gap, versus playing heads up and playing two gap. Diaco has the guys do the latter. AL couldn't do it. Many players cannot. For example, Ishaq Williams, who is basically a CAT can put his had down and do it. He gets little or no outside credit for what he does. Where I still hear people pining for AL. That is what aggravates me. Not you. ND plays two gap between 60 and 80% of the time. That is why you cannot replace a Kona or a Tony, along with a Louis. It truly is all of them. But Day, Springman, and Schwenke can move inside or out. In fact, both Tuitt and Moore did it at times Saturday Last. That is why the defense is so brolic. Big, strong, disciplined, accomplished, mentally tough men; not a personality.

Has anyone heard about Hegarty lately?

 

[Old Man Mike]

My current "dogmatic opinions":

1). our current class is absolutely great, and if we can hold, we will be fine; further optimization, however, is possible;
2). Kona and Tony are good players who are nowhere near the great asset of Big Lou, who IS, as stated by me ad nauseum, the key to our whole defense;
3). only Sheldon looks as if he could do somewhat of a Big Lou imitation, which is why they picked him quickly over Schutt, and only he can reasonably give us hope under current roster conditions of maintaining defensive dominance two seasons from now;
4). whereas Tony and Jarron and even Romeo and the rookies look like good prospects, none of them projects comfortably as an elite jumbo DT who can if needed wreak havoc at the nose;
5). DE is in great shape, especially with the highly desirable addition of AMuhammed sooner or later. We have all sorts of guys who look like potential line-disruptors and pass-rushers there;
6). everyone knows that Vanderdoes is a longshot --- no one is counting any chickens there. There IS however a legitimate desire and hope for a superior candidate for a jumbo D-Lineman;
7). IF Vanderdoes wanted to come, GRAB and hold on tight. Add AMuhammed. Then, if required [and given the fluctuating elements currently about concerning medical issues with some players and flip possibilities of one or two verbals, this might not be necessary], thank Carlo for his fine service, especially this season, and let him go. KEEP FOX;
8). concerns over leadership at LB are misplaced. Fox, Spond, and Shembo are returning veterans of VERY high quality. Grace will do well at MIKE, where no one can replace the MAN. Spond and Shembo are backed already with two guys who'd start nearly anywhere else. Both Rabasa and Moore can fill at MIKE and WILL if needed. Plus this gives players like Anzalone and Deeb closer smells of the field;
9). with the "Carlo spot" or another due to the factors above, add Redfield. with a flip, add Bryant. with a medical, add Treadwell ... or whatever ones fantasy is. Yes, Eddie Vanderdoes is a longshot --- but REALLY worth trying for.

Dogmas will change anytime this week.