Players Skipping Alma Mater

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Cackalacky

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I am confused. Is Kelly gonna suspend those who went into the tunnel or those who went to sing the alma mater?
 
Jason Pham

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First of all, some of you need to tone the rhetoric down. The "you guys are thumb suckers" shtick is hyperbolic and tiring. If our nation seems to be "softening," it isn't only, if at all, because of an increase in "soft" sentiment; there ought to be more articulate voices on the pragmatic side of things that are able to thoughtfully engage and balance out the other side, yet there fewer and fewer of these voices and more and more hyperbole.

I get the sentiments of the administration, Kelly, and some of the players on this. We've got plenty of asshats for fans, including among the students, who seriously lack good judgment. See, for example, the creeps on Twitter and what they have to say about Rees. See, also, the comments made toward Weis' kid. (His imprudently putting his kid in the spotlight does not absolve the rest of us from acting like adults; it's called self-control). I can understand the Kelly's and the administration's desire to protect the players from being "exposed" in a situation where there's "lots of emotion" (though this does seem to turn the tough-guy argument on its head). I also can understand wanting to run straight into the locker room after a defeat.

That said, some among you seem to think that singing the alma mater after a game is nothing more than a celebratory gesture to be saved for victories or, in the case of a loss, a conciliatory hug to be reserved for "nerdy whiners." Not surprisingly, it's neither. There is, on the other side, some who think the alma mater is owed by the football team to the student body. Again not surprisingly, it's not that either. The alma mater is about moving beyond what is owed to you, moving beyond what pain or embarrassment you carry, it's about recognizing that at Notre Dame, you're part of something much bigger than you; you're part of a tradition of endeavoring for excellence and giving your very best to those around you. It's about a commitment to responsibility, integrity, and community. And it's about doing all of these things together.

Not all of the players that come to Notre Dame are looking for the above, not all of the players that come care; but I'm willing to bet that most of them will leave knowing and appreciating the exceptional experience they received having been part of Notre Dame. And maybe it's naive and idealistic on my part, and it'll certainly come off as arrogant to some, but I believe that I'm not just cheering for some random team here, and that the flakes in our helmets don't just come from some random dome.
 
kmoose

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Jason Pham said:
First of all, some of you need to tone the rhetoric down. The "you guys are thumb suckers" shtick is hyperbolic and tiring. If our nation seems to be "softening," it isn't only, if at all, because of an increase in "soft" sentiment; there ought to be more articulate voices on the pragmatic side of things that are able to thoughtfully engage and balance out the other side, yet there fewer and fewer of these voices and more and more hyperbole.

I get the sentiments of the administration, Kelly, and some of the players on this. We've got plenty of asshats for fans, including among the students, who seriously lack good judgment. See, for example, the creeps on Twitter and what they have to say about Rees. See, also, the comments made toward Weis' kid. (His imprudently putting his kid in the spotlight does not absolve the rest of us from acting like adults; it's called self-control). I can understand the Kelly's and the administration's desire to protect the players from being "exposed" in a situation where there's "lots of emotion" (though this does seem to turn the tough-guy argument on its head). I also can understand wanting to run straight into the locker room after a defeat.

That said, some among you seem to think that singing the alma mater after a game is nothing more than a celebratory gesture to be saved for victories or, in the case of a loss, a conciliatory hug to be reserved for "nerdy whiners." Not surprisingly, it's neither. There is, on the other side, some who think the alma mater is owed by the football team to the student body. Again not surprisingly, it's not that either. The alma mater is about moving beyond what is owed to you, moving beyond what pain or embarrassment you carry, it's about recognizing that at Notre Dame, you're part of something much bigger than you; you're part of a tradition of endeavoring for excellence and giving your very best to those around you. It's about a commitment to responsibility, integrity, and community. And it's about doing all of these things together.

Not all of the players that come to Notre Dame are looking for the above, not all of the players that come care; but I'm willing to bet that most of them will leave knowing and appreciating the exceptional experience they received having been part of Notre Dame. And maybe it's naive and idealistic on my part, and it'll certainly come off as arrogant to some, but I believe that I'm not just cheering for some random team here, and that the flakes in our helmets don't just come from some random dome.
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Thank you.
 
Grahambo

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Jason Pham said:
That said, some among you seem to think that singing the alma mater after a game is nothing more than a celebratory gesture to be saved for victories or, in the case of a loss, a conciliatory hug to be reserved for "nerdy whiners." Not surprisingly, it's neither. There is, on the other side, some who think the alma mater is owed by the football team to the student body. Again not surprisingly, it's not that either. The alma mater is about moving beyond what is owed to you, moving beyond what pain or embarrassment you carry, it's about recognizing that at Notre Dame, you're part of something much bigger than you; you're part of a tradition of endeavoring for excellence and giving your very best to those around you. It's about a commitment to responsibility, integrity, and community. And it's about doing all of these things together.
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Is there no other way to go about the bold then to only sing at the end of a game? Some on here and other places are making it to be a bigger problem then it needs to be.
 
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koonja

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It's just irrational to expect it to go smoothly on both the fans side and also the coaches/players side every time we lose at home. There's too much emotion and it only takes one idiot to make a scene.

This loss wasn't even a heartbreaker. It was not to a rival, it was not a close game. What happens when we lose to Michigan/USC on a last second play? It's asking for trouble. I'm glad they will no longer be singing after losses.
 
kmoose

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Grahambo said:
Is there no other way to go about the bold then to only sing at the end of a game? Some on here and other places are making it to be a bigger problem then it needs to be.
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The singing is not what people are complaining about. As JPham so eloquently pointed out; it's what the singing represents that has some people fired up. And let's be clear about this:

As a fan who did not attend ND, I have my ideas about what is appropriate and what is not. But this particular tradition is entirely about the idea that the football players are not above the rest of the student body. They are ONE with the rest of the student body. And that's where I think this focus should be. If the student body is leaving early, in the losses, then they have nothing to complain about. However, if the student body is there until the final whistle; rain, shine, snow, whatever, then I feel they have a right to be upset about it. The whole tradition is FOR the student body. So, while the rest of us may have opinions, and maybe have some great logic behind them, our opinions are really moot. It's not about the singing. The singing is merely a symbolic gesture, by the team, that says, "We're not any better(or worse) than you, our classmates." It's about God, Country, Notre Dame! Note that there was no "God, Country, ME, Notre Dame" in there...
 
Jason Pham

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Grahambo said:
Is there no other way to go about the bold then to only sing at the end of a game? Some on here and other places are making it to be a bigger problem then it needs to be.
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There may be another way. My most preferred method would be to win every damned home game, but then again I can be idealistic. I don't disagree that there are some who will overreact just as much as others will overreact to that reaction. I want to emphasize, though, that it isn't the non-issue some are making it out to be and in fact, to some, it can mean a great deal for what I think are good reasons.
 
CHIDomer9

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Cackalacky said:
I am confused. Is Kelly gonna suspend those who went into the tunnel or those who went to sing the alma mater?
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I think he is going to suspend anyone who sang from the tunnel, or those that were outside the tunnel and just mouthed the words. Need to get this figured out before he works on making the offense less predictable.
 
ulukinatme

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I'm kind of torn on this issue. If singing /w the students supposedly began with Weis (I thought we've been doing this longer), I wouldn't consider this "tradition." 6 or 7 years does not tradition make. Also, in some respects I could see where the TV cameras showing the players and emotions as they sang after a loss could be a negative thing. It may be better to shuffle the players to the locker room and not put the guys on display when they're at they're lowest. Yeah, it shows some solidarity, but it can be tough to watch especially after some losses.

On the other hand, how do you reward the students that have stood the entire game and cheered for the team? Thats a big part of singing the Alma matter with them, is it not? Maybe they just raise their helmets to them as they go by?
 
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koonja

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In general, it's not a great idea to be married to every tradition. Loyalty has its limits. The violinists on the Titanic were loyal. They died.

Even if this is a tradition that goes back 50 years, I'd be OK with going away with it for the reasons I posted above. In order to be successful and ahead of the game as a person, business, or football team, you have to be progressive. Just because something's working really well doesn't mean you sit on it.

Not having a video screen, music, or field turf can be considered traditional at ND, but I think most of us agree that it'd be much better with most/all of those things. It's the way of the world now and if you don't evolve, you sink.

Sometimes tradition can hold you back.
 
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ulukinatme

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kuehnja said:
Not having a video screen, music, or field turf can be considered traditional at ND, but I think most of us agree that it'd be much better with most/all of those things. Sometimes tradition can hold you back.
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This is something that needs to change, imo. Piping the music into the stadium has helped, in some small degree, to get fans louder during games. We're still not quite there, from an intimidation standpoint, but we're improving. Maybe the additions to the stadium that were talked about in May will help push some blue hairs to the new enclosed seating that looks to be added in the corners of the stadium?
 
Grahambo

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Jason Pham said:
There may be another way. My most preferred method would be to win every damned home game, but then again I can be idealistic. I don't disagree that there are some who will overreact just as much as others will overreact to that reaction. I want to emphasize, though, that it isn't the non-issue some are making it out to be and in fact, to some, it can mean a great deal for what I think are good reasons.
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/thread

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong but if I understood the new policy correctly, it was the players were to return to the locker room to collect themselves and then come back out for alma mater? No?
 
Irish Insanity

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kuehnja said:
Not having a video screen, music, or field turf can be considered traditional at ND, but I think most of us agree that it'd be much better with most/all of those things. It's the way of the world now and if you don't evolve, you sink.

Sometimes tradition can hold you back.
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Both paragraphs are right on point. But in regards to the singing, I don't think anything associated with it would hold us back.
 
stlnd01

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Grahambo said:
/thread

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong but if I understood the new policy correctly, it was the players were to return to the locker room to collect themselves and then come back out for alma mater? No?
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That is - according to some reports - the new policy. It just seems unrealistic in practice.

Jason's wise post more or less sums it up for me. The act of the alma mater matters.
It is symbolic of the bond between the students who stand and yell and support their team for four quarters no matter the score or the weather or the opponent, and the players that they're supporting. It is symbolic of the idea that those players are also students and that they're all part of something larger than themselves. It is, frankly, symbolic of the reality that bond is rare in modern-day major college sports, and that Notre Dame is an unusual place in that regard, or at least strives to be.

To me, it doesn't really matter if they've been doing it 6 years or 60 (when I was a student in the late 90s, the players more typically raised their helmets in the general direction of the student body on their way to the locker room, and the alma mater came at the end of the band post-game concert. Pretty much all the students stayed for it.) It's a good thing to do. And the players who don't want to be a part of it after a loss for years have trickled into the locker room. No one really minds.

Regarding the concern about some "incident" that might happen when "emotions run high," what are you worried about?
 
Emcee77

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Grahambo said:
Is there no other way to go about the bold then to only sing at the end of a game? Some on here and other places are making it to be a bigger problem then it needs to be.
Click to expand...

That's sort of how I feel about it. Staying to sing the alma mater after the game is a tradition for the students, but the players haven't always participated, and I was fine with it when they didn't. When they started coming over to sing with the students under Weis, I was fine with that too, but if Kelly thinks it's a bad idea after losses, why would we get all up in arms about it? It's not like this is a 140 year tradition he's changing ... this is something that's ebbed and flowed, kind of like uniform tweaks, with coaching changes.

If Kelly were to somehow and for some reason prevent the alma mater from being played at all, that would be an unacceptable assault on a time-honored tradition. I've never left ND stadium before singing the alma mater and I never will. But whether the players participate in the singing or not ... not a major issue to me. I guess I think of the ritual as something the fans do to help each other wind down after the emotions of the game and express their support and love for ND, win or lose. The ritual just doesn't require the players, imho.
 
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Folsteam_Ahead

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Emcee77 said:
That's sort of how I feel about it. Staying to sing the alma mater after the game is a tradition for the students, but the players haven't always participated, and I was fine with it when they didn't. When they started coming over to sing with the students under Weis, I was fine with that too, but if Kelly thinks it's a bad idea after losses, why would we get all up in arms about it? It's not like this is a 140 year tradition he's changing ... this is something that's ebbed and flowed, kind of like uniform tweaks, with coaching changes.

If Kelly were to somehow and for some reason prevent the alma mater from being played at all, that would be an unacceptable assault on a time-honored tradition. I've never left ND stadium before singing the alma mater and I never will. But whether the players participate in the singing or not ... not a major issue to me. I guess I think of the ritual as something the fans do to help each other wind down after the emotions of the game and express their support and love for ND, win or lose. The ritual just doesn't require the players, imho.
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this is a very elegant way of telling people to get over themselves. thumbs up.
 
sparkyND

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Getting What We Paid For | Ideas of a University

I don't know if this was posted elsewhere but I thought it was relevant for this thread. I am surprised to see that a lot of ND traditions have ended during Brian Kelly's tenure here:

Traditions ended during Kelly’s tenure as head coach at Notre Dame:

"Having the student managers paint the team’s helmets before each game. (before 1990′s- 2011).
Having the team process from the Basilica to the stadium before each game. (1920‘s - 2011).
Having the team attend Mass together the morning of the game. (1920‘s – 2013)
Having the team sing the alma mater after every home football game. (2006 – 2011).
Having the Notre Dame Band provide all music for the home games. (1887 – 2011)."

Just wanted to see what others thought about this trend and related issues.
 
K

koonja

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sparkyND said:
Getting What We Paid For | Ideas of a University

I don't know if this was posted elsewhere but I thought it was relevant for this thread. I am surprised to see that a lot of ND traditions have ended during Brian Kelly's tenure here:

Traditions ended during Kelly’s tenure as head coach at Notre Dame:

"Having the student managers paint the team’s helmets before each game. (before 1990′s- 2011).
Having the team process from the Basilica to the stadium before each game. (1920‘s - 2011).
Having the team attend Mass together the morning of the game. (1920‘s – 2013)
Having the team sing the alma mater after every home football game. (2006 – 2011).
Having the Notre Dame Band provide all music for the home games. (1887 – 2011)."

Just wanted to see what others thought about this trend and related issues.
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I agree with every change he's made, but I didn't know they no longer do the 'player's walk'? That one I liked. I got to high-5 Manti because of it. I wish that one would stay.
 
dublinirish

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kuehnja said:
I agree with every change he's made, but I didn't know they no longer do the 'player's walk'? That one I liked. I got to high-5 Manti because of it. I wish that one would stay.
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they walk from the Gug to the stadium instead right?
 
NDdomer2

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hey not sorting through all this to see if its been discussed and if it has just say so.

When we play Navy we always go with them to do their alma mater.

So if they beat us at home we are just going to run off the field?
 
gkIrish

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NDdomer2 said:
hey not sorting through all this to see if its been discussed and if it has just say so.

When we play Navy we always go with them to do their alma mater.

So if they beat us at home we are just going to run off the field?
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mind-blowing_1454.gif
 
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