Very Post Game Observations (Michigan State) ....

[TheSunIsRising]

Domer4Ever was at least marginally civil when he was arguing with just me earlier today, but since then, he's: (1) put down our community generally; (2) personally attacked individual members; and (3) used gratuitously vulgar language.

He's got 3 months off. If he can learn some civility in the interim, he's welcome to return after the regular season. Apologies to those who were enjoying the back and forth.

and 4)???

He has a game against Texas Tech to prep for after this bye week???

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So, anything been happening lately?

 

[Irish Insanity]

I've figured it out. We are similar to the team in the aspect that we are getting the job done on this board, but if ain't ****ing pretty lately.

 

[PANDFAN]

 

[dublinirish]

watching that Run its all Troy gawdamn he is a stud he was moving that dude like he was just a blocking sled.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Z Mart looks pretty phenomenal too on that play...was blocking a pretty decent player too. That's definitely one to send to the NFL scouts

 

[RDU Irish]

A few items that raised my blood pressure this weekend

WTF with an empty backfield on 3rd and short plays, all day long? We get favorable down/distance scenario and we take the risk of run completely off the table? That only makes the pass less effective and takes an option off the table for Tommy to check to.

1st and goal from 2 yard line. I don't understand how we don't have a play to run up and go with quickly. It was like we were more surprised than anyone we completed a pass. One time out left, plenty of time really, quick run play and if stopped call the TO. Better yet, have WRs to check to if the defense is not set. How often, especially in college ball, do you see a team run up and get that play off and the defense is not ready. Wasted TO IMO and took the run completely off the table. Thanks for bailing us out TJ.

While I thought Tommy was inaccurate, it's not like I expected him to suddenly become proficient at long throws. I can appreciate he is better long than short to cut down on INTs. I also saw the illegal contact (pretty much no close ups where the jersey was not being pulled) that warranted the high number of PI calls. At some point, isn't it better to run a less optimal play on which we have better execution than the optimal play that we can't execute? End of the day, the bomb strategy worked, Tommy didn't under throw and we won.

Three and outs on offense are toxic. Cannot for the life of me understand why we can't sustain a drive to start a game. End of the game, trying to run into one of the better run defenses in the country seemed a bit suicidal. Would have liked to see us pass at least once in those three series to try to move the chains instead of putting it all on our defense. Seen too many MSU miracles in the last decade.

All the calls for youth in the secondary don't seem to care that our defense lacks leadership. It took three years for Manti Teo to impose his will on the entire unit, I don't think Redfield and Jaylon will do it as freshmen. I grossly underestimated the value of T'eo and Motta last year. At the same point, I scratch my head at how we dominate late and can get rolled over early.

 

[PANDFAN]

WatchND.tv

inside the irish w/ jack nolan ...interview w/ BK

 

[dublinirish]

WatchND.tv

inside the irish w/ jack nolan ...interview w/ BK

Jack Nolan needs to go, every other school in the land would have some chick doing the presenting instead of Monty Burn's long lost son.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Jack Nolan needs to go, every other school in the land would have some chick doing the presenting instead of Monty Burn's long lost son.

No.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Our defense finally out-performed the offense.

The Defense played well at times, but I think statistically they're getting a little too much credit for plays that were really just MSU's QB incompetence.

 

[dublinirish]

trust me as bad as we rag on Reesus, MSU fans have a special place in hell for Andrew Maxwell.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

trust me as bad as we rag on Reesus, MSU fans have a special place in hell for Andrew Maxwell.

For real. Of Cooks, Maxwell and Rees, we clearly have the best of the bunch...

 

[RDU Irish]

Huge QB advantage for ND vs. MSU.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

OFD just posted a film review of the MSU game. Some good stuff in there on our packaged plays. After reading the article and comments, I feel a little better about our playcalling. Looks like it's mostly an execution issue, which should improve as the season progresses.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Back to the run. Please note; every offensive linemen was awesome on this play. Christian, the whipping boy, (normally) walled off the whole outside on this play by himself. Look again. Ronny Stanley drove his man, as did young Martin. Zack took his man out, and then when his man made a second effort, Zack almost drove him past the pile into the endzone. Even Smith had an attempted block, which counted as a keeping his DB occupied long enough for the play to develop!

If we do half this against the Sooners, we will have over two bills on the ground!

 

[Kak7304]

Back to the run. Please note; every offensive linemen was awesome on this play. Christian, the whipping boy, (normally) walled off the whole outside on this play by himself. Look again. Ronny Stanley drove his man, as did young Martin. Zack took his man out, and then when his man made a second effort, Zack almost drove him past the pile into the endzone. Even Smith had an attempted block, which counted as a keeping his DB occupied long enough for the play to develop!

If we do half this against the Sooners, we will have over two bills on the ground!

If Smith gets a piece of that guy from the start, Cam could have cut to the right and run for a huge gain.

 

[irishfanjho15]

I hate to just show back up and do this.....but damn, the rampant and unfounded speculation in this thread alone is why I don't come around much anymore.

I know it's hard for some of the members here, but can we not act like everyone is upset at ND. They are 3-1. 23-3 in last 26 regular season games and that's with a ton of adversity. The future is bright for ND. Great programs find ways to win, few years ago all this program did was find ways to lose.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I hate to just show back up and do this.....but damn, the rampant and unfounded speculation in this thread alone is why I don't come around much anymore.

I know it's hard for some of the members here, but can we not act like everyone is upset at ND. They are 3-1. 23-3 in last 26 regular season games and that's with a ton of adversity. The future is bright for ND. Great programs find ways to win, few years ago all this program did was find ways to lose.

Amen.

This is what I've been trying to explain.

Let's just watch the product on the field.

 

[NDhoosier]

I hate to just show back up and do this.....but damn, the rampant and unfounded speculation in this thread alone is why I don't come around much anymore.

I know it's hard for some of the members here, but can we not act like everyone is upset at ND. They are 3-1. 23-3 in last 26 regular season games and that's with a ton of adversity. The future is bright for ND. Great programs find ways to win, few years ago all this program did was find ways to lose.

It is pretty negative around ND FAN boards recently, but not all of us are upset with ND. I am just tired of arguing with pessimists about ND.

 

[irishfanjho15]

It is pretty negative around ND FAN boards recently, but not all of us are upset with ND. I am just tired of arguing with pessimists about ND.

I think you read my post wrong. I am saying that I don't understand why a lot of members here think everyone at ND is so unhappy. A lot of winning going on for everyone around the program to be upset with their positions and roles.

Maybe the real problem is that a lot members think they know a lot more about the game and program than the people that are coaching, playing, and people who actually (in real life) have a part in the program.

 

[Emcee77]

I think you read my post wrong. I am saying that I don't understand why a lot of members here think everyone at ND is so unhappy. A lot of winning going on for everyone around the program to be upset with their positions and roles.

Maybe the real problem is that a lot members think they know a lot more about the game and program than the people that are coaching, playing, and people who actually (in real life) have a part in the program.

I thought it was really interesting how Mayock said at the start of the third quarter during Saturday's telecast that everyone he encountered in the stadium at halftime was freaking out -- "Can you believe how bad we look??" etc. -- but he didn't see any reason to feel that way ... we were probably playing just the game we wanted to play. Low-scoring, no mistakes, don't give MSU anything easy.

It's helpful to have that outside perspective sometimes. I think we ND fans had a taste of success last season and we were really hoping to turn a corner HARD this season. It looks like turning that corner is going to be more of a process, and that should be ok,as long as you believe we're still pointed in the right direction, even if it's two steps forward, one step back.

 

[irishfan]

I think a lot of people are upset that we "look worse" than we did last year. We were just 1 year ahead of schedule last year, plain and simple. We got every bounce possible. We won 5 games by one score (Purdue, Michigan, Stanford, BYU, Pitt), and that doesn't even count Oklahoma (tie game with 8 mins left) and USC (much, much closer than 9 points). We probably should have been closer to 9-3 than 12-0, but it was just one of those years.

If we had gone 9-3 last year and had lost Golson in the off-season, everyone would be excpecting/hoping for 9 wins again this year. As it is, most people are all riding a 12-0 year last year and think of 10-2 as being a down year for this year.

I'm as guilty as anyone else hear of complaining. I've bitched long and hard to anyone who will listen about how bad ND has looked, but I think its going to be a year where we just win ugly (kind of like last year), except we've got a boring, senior QB as opposed to a flashy, freshman one so the excitement is much lower.

I posted when Golson got hurt (http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/not...lson-no-longer-enrolled-nd-15.html#post997606) that we could ride our D to a 10-2 record like LSU seemed to do forever when they had no offense. I still think that's possible. Our schedule isn't that tough, and our D is seemingly improving. We can still turn this into a BCS season.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I think a lot of people are upset that we "look worse" than we did last year. We were just 1 year ahead of schedule last year, plain and simple. We got every bounce possible. We won 5 games by one score (Purdue, Michigan, Stanford, BYU, Pitt), and that doesn't even count Oklahoma (tie game with 8 mins left) and USC (much, much closer than 9 points). We probably should have been closer to 9-3 than 12-0, but it was just one of those years.

If we had gone 9-3 last year and had lost Golson in the off-season, everyone would be excpecting/hoping for 9 wins again this year. As it is, most people are all riding a 12-0 year last year and think of 10-2 as being a down year for this year.

I'm as guilty as anyone else hear of complaining. I've bitched long and hard to anyone who will listen about how bad ND has looked, but I think its going to be a year where we just win ugly (kind of like last year), except we've got a boring, senior QB as opposed to a flashy, freshman one so the excitement is much lower.

I posted when Golson got hurt (http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/not...lson-no-longer-enrolled-nd-15.html#post997606) that we could ride our D to a 10-2 record like LSU seemed to do forever when they had no offense. I still think that's possible. Our schedule isn't that tough, and our D is seemingly improving. We can still turn this into a BCS season.

EDIT: Didn't realize this was Bryant's thread that had been derailed.

This. Notre Dame deserved to lose to Michigan and Pittsburgh last season. And the Oklahoma game was honestly lost by Oklahoma just as much as the Irish won it (they were 1/5 in the redzone apparently). I loved 2012, it was amazing, but the team had flaws and got lucky when it needed too. Still, a sh'load of great times!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think a lot of people are upset that we "look worse" than we did last year. We were just 1 year ahead of schedule last year, plain and simple. We got every bounce possible.

Don't sell our accomplishments last year short. Of course we caught some breaks-- no team goes undefeated without a little luck-- but we also overcame a lot of bad breaks, too. Last season wasn't a fluke.

We won 5 games by one score (Purdue, Michigan, Stanford, BYU, Pitt), and that doesn't even count Oklahoma (tie game with 8 mins left) and USC (much, much closer than 9 points). We probably should have been closer to 9-3 than 12-0, but it was just one of those years.

And we've already won two more games this season by a single possession. At what point does this stop being luck and start being a tough team-identity type thing?

Our schedule isn't that tough, and our D is seemingly improving. We can still turn this into a BCS season.

No other team consistently plays against the same tough SoS that we do. There are no DIII cupcakes on our schedule; whenever one rival is down (USC), another is firing on all cylinders (Stanford).

This. Notre Dame deserved to lose to Michigan and Pittsburgh last season. And the Oklahoma game was honestly lost by Oklahoma just as much as the Irish won it (they were 1/5 in the redzone apparently). I loved 2012, it was amazing, but the team had flaws and got lucky when it needed too. Still, a sh'load of great times!

Our defense was dominant in the redzone all throughout 2012. Not sure how you can argue that luck had anything to do with it.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

If you read back, I did give Kelly credit for streamlining the program which did obviously help in last season's ultimate success. Look, Kelly is a good coach.....but I don't buy into him being the second coming like so many of you do based on what is plain as day to see. Also, why is it so convenient for you to grasp that the senior class last year, which was recruited by Weis, was a huge reason this team went as far as they did, but yet are quick to tab Weis's early success on "Willingham's recruits." Is there not a parallel there? Hypocritical anyone?

The bottom line here is I'm giving an opinionated critique, you just don't like what I had to say because you think Kelly is beyond reproach. You have your opinions and I have mine, and that doesn't make me "arguing in bad faith" or "having an axe to grind" when you just don't agree with my critique. It also doesn't make your opinion right and mine wrong. For you to infer that I'm some nitwit "who can't possibly know enough about the program to form an educated opinion" is about as dumb of a statement as I have heard on this board and I take offense to that being that every Joe Schmoe on this board (yourself included) throws around opinions like rice at a wedding. But I guess my application to the "senior frat house" was denied because I don't share in your homeristic view points. Oh well. With all due respect I think I'll stick around to provide a differing viewpoint from the normal drivel.

Weis' early success was with all of Willingham's recruits. He had 1 real class on his 2006 team, the 2005 team was a mix of his and Willingham's. Kelly had only 1 real full class in 2012 that was Weis' and the rest of his players were his. He had a few 5th year guys but a lot of his players were his players on that team (Jackson, Russell, Farley, Shumate, Tuitt, I will say Nix since he committed after Weis was fired, Spond, Shembo, Ishaq, Golson, Lombard, Davaris, Hercules, Cam, GAIII, Koyak, Brown). I named mostly guys that contributed the most but there were others that saw a lot of PT. How can you look at all of those starters or significant players and think that Kelly won last year because of Weis' recruits? He won with both his and Weis' but mostly his. Weis won with almost all of Willingham's and very few of his own.

 

[Irishman77]

This. Notre Dame deserved to lose to Michigan and Pittsburgh last season. And the Oklahoma game was honestly lost by Oklahoma just as much as the Irish won it (they were 1/5 in the redzone apparently). I loved 2012, it was amazing, but the team had flaws and got lucky when it needed too. Still, a sh'load of great times!

I disagree. We had the #1 defense playing the toughest schedule... No luck there. Luck, could've , should've is lala land talk.

 

[Patulski]

I watched the game again. It is difficult to know how good their cornerback Denard is, because he holds so often. He held on the line of scrimmage, pushed with his arm as the receiver ran down the field and then held a jersey or an arm when the ball was in the air. I don't think I've ever seen a player hold as much as that guy. For all the calls that have gone against us over the years by Big 10 officialz, I have to hand it to them that they continued to call holding against MSU.

 

[ND NYC]

for all this talk about luck, etc...i am reminded of the famous line by Bill Parcells:

"You are what your record says you are".

and thats that.

every team has bad luck and every team has good luck.

its all about the W's (and nothing else)

 

[IrishJayhawk]

for all this talk about luck, etc...i am reminded of the famous line by Bill Parcells:

"You are what your record says you are".

and thats that.

every team has bad luck and every team has good luck.

its all about the W's (and nothing else)

Especially when you play our schedule.