'13 FL RB Greg Bryant (R.I.P.)

[Junkhead]

Perhaps we are currently living in a perfect football world, and BK was just saving GB, Folston, Robinson, etc. as the secret weapons for Michigan this Saturday.

I seem to remember Darius Walker breaking out against Michigan his freshman year.

 

[stlnd01]

Kinda glad if he was mad. This kid has the talent to start now and honestly he probably should. Still you have to give every opportunity to the upperclassmen to prove that they can get it done first only if it is not at the expense of the ever chased after W. I hope GB gets his shot sooner than later because IMO he is the workhorse back we have been waiting a long time for.

Yep. Long run, Bryant probably is our best between-the-tackles banger. Especially if he can block. But McDaniel and GAIII have earned their shot, and they should get it.

 

[Junkhead]

Yep. Long run, Bryant probably is our best between-the-tackles banger. Especially if he can block. But McDaniel and GAIII have earned their shot, and they should get it.

Best guys play, no disrespect to the others. Should Heggie be starting since he's a senior? Cam has maybe shown to deserve it, but IMHO, not GAIII so much.

 

[EMAN51]

My crystal ball tells me that the coaches are going to go with the guys that will give them the best chance to win the game that is on the schedule. Why would you reward players simply due to longevity in the program at the expense of the team? I am a fan of every player on the team, but good Lord, GB, Folston and Carlisle deserve serious playing time. IMO, both GAIII and Cam have their skill set and can contribute. If we need to run the ball to salt away the game, I can see Cam filling that role. Me thinks he got the majority of carries in the Temple game to get him the carries that might not be there down the road. The experienced backs can pick up for the young guys if the weight of the game overwhelms. Situation, circumstance and game plan will dictate. But how can you keep those three off the field, even against a big time opponent early on the schedule when you may need to take some risks to gain the advantage?

 

[dublinirish]

Best guys play, no disrespect to the others. Should Heggie be starting since he's a senior? Cam has maybe shown to deserve it, but IMHO, not GAIII so much.

dont really think GA3 has earnt much either, all spring he was told to lower his pad level, first carry he runs into contact like a baby giraffe and gets nailed.

 

[phgreek]

My crystal ball tells me that the coaches are going to go with the guys that will give them the best chance to win the game that is on the schedule. Why would you reward players simply due to longevity in the program at the expense of the team? I am a fan of every player on the team, but good Lord, GB, Folston and Carlisle deserve serious playing time. IMO, both GAIII and Cam have their skill set and can contribute. If we need to run the ball to salt away the game, I can see Cam filling that role. Me thinks he got the majority of carries in the Temple game to get him the carries that might not be there down the road. The experienced backs can pick up for the young guys if the weight of the game overwhelms. Situation, circumstance and game plan will dictate. But how can you keep those three off the field, even against a big time opponent early on the schedule when you may need to take some risks to gain the advantage?

I'm a huge proponent of weighing experience. Easy to get alignment, assignment, and technique right on the practice field because folks want to reinforce success. But when the other team employs grown men, full time to fool you, and the weight of the moment sets in...do you doubt, hesitate...takes but a kernel of indecision and Tommy gets KO'd, or a play or series of plays lose effectiveness. Knowing the playbook and getting passive reps on the sideline and in the film room are pretty important to develop the mental side. Is GB physically gifted...clearly. Is he ready to be the guy...doubt it. Can his role grow this year...absolutely.

In my book, when everything hinges on precision, proven trumps potential. GB might get more and more opportunities...but you earn gameday trust, and even moreso clutch time trust.

 

[stlnd01]

Best guys play, no disrespect to the others. Should Heggie be starting since he's a senior? Cam has maybe shown to deserve it, but IMHO, not GAIII so much.

All I meant was they've earned a shot at the starting job (which they're getting). They've done this - presumably - the ways PhGreek suggests, by learning the system, understanding blocking, and, yes, waiting patiently behind (and learning from) Wood and Riddick the last couple of years. A lot of this we never see. Experience does matter, and they've got it. Right now, that hopefully makes them better players. They should get the chance to prove that on the field and not be tossed aside just because some freshman comes in with more stars on Rivals.

That said, talent absolutely should win out in the long run. And it will. If Atkinson in particular doesn't pick up his game he'll be third-string within the month. Kelly has shown no hesitation to play more-talented freshmen over more-experienced upperclassmen if he thinks they're ready, and when Bryant/Folston are ready, they'll get their shot too. Maybe Saturday.

 

[Cackalacky]

All I meant was they've earned a shot at the starting job (which they're getting). They've done this - presumably - the ways PhGreek suggests, by learning the system, understanding blocking, and, yes, waiting patiently behind (and learning from) Wood and Riddick the last couple of years. A lot of this we never see. Experience does matter, and they've got it. Right now, that hopefully makes them better players. They should get the chance to prove that on the field and not be tossed aside just because some freshman comes in with more stars on Rivals.

That said, talent absolutely should win out in the long run. And it will. If Atkinson in particular doesn't pick up his game he'll be third-string within the month. Kelly has shown no hesitation to play more-talented freshmen over more-experienced upperclassmen if he thinks they're ready, and when Bryant/Folston are ready, they'll get their shot too. Maybe Saturday.

Agree. Kelly has said incontrovertibly that they want a RB who runs the way they want a RB to run to be the on the field. Last year that was Riddick and it took half the season for him to emerge as that guy. GAIII is not that type of runner. GB and Folston can be along with Mahone. I would say Cam has shown some promise and Amir has to prove durable. The spots are GB's and TF's to lose IMO.

 

[ulukinatme]

The spots are GB's and TF's to lose IMO.

It can't be their spots to lose if they're at #4 and #5 on the depth chart, respectively. Heck, they may be #5 and #6 if Mahone is healthy, we don't know what he's going to look like once he's back. We've only seen what GB and TF can do in garbage time. So far Amir and Cam have shown me the most if we're just going off Temple tape. I'm not going to rule out GA III yet, but I think Cam definitely runs between the tackles better than the other two upperclassmen, and Amir has shown his instant burst of speed coupled with his ability to be shifty. I think Bryant is going to be special for sure, but he's not there yet. I'm not sure about TF. While he didn't get a lot of carries, it was 3 less than GA III and he wound up with 2.8 yac in garbage time. He did snag one pass though.

 

[tko]

It can't be their spots to lose if they're at #4 and #5 on the depth chart, respectively. Heck, they may be #5 and #6 if Mahone is healthy, we don't know what he's going to look like once he's healthy. We've only seen what GB and TF can do in garbage time. So far Amir and Cam have shown me the most if we're just going off Temple tape. I'm not going to rule out GA III yet, but I think Cam definitely runs between the tackles better than the other two upperclassmen, and Amir has shown his instant burst of speed coupled with his ability to be shifty.

Mahone is working in the slot, no?

 

[ulukinatme]

Mahone is working in the slot, no?

I thought he was taking some snaps there, but still considered in the RB group for all intents and purposes?

 

[tko]

I thought he was taking some snaps there, but still considered in the RB group for all intents and purposes?

yeah, not sure where things left off prior to ankle injury. i do want him back soon though!

 

[Cackalacky]

It can't be their spots to lose if they're at #4 and #5 on the depth chart, respectively. Heck, they may be #5 and #6 if Mahone is healthy, we don't know what he's going to look like once he's back. We've only seen what GB and TF can do in garbage time. So far Amir and Cam have shown me the most if we're just going off Temple tape. I'm not going to rule out GA III yet, but I think Cam definitely runs between the tackles better than the other two upperclassmen, and Amir has shown his instant burst of speed coupled with his ability to be shifty. I think Bryant is going to be special for sure, but he's not there yet. I'm not sure about TF. While he didn't get a lot of carries, it was 3 less than GA III and he wound up with 2.8 yac in garbage time. He did snag one pass though.

I meant projecting over the course of the season. Not just on one game. Kelly will go with who is running the best in the end is all I was saying. Go back and re-read what I posted. I think by the end of the year, GB and TF will be getting the majority of the carries (Mahone could be there as well). Amir will be in the slot primarily.

 

[ulukinatme]

I meant projecting over the course of the season. Not just on one game. Kelly will go with who is running the best in the end is all I was saying. Go back and re-read what I posted. I think by the end of the year, GB and TF will be getting the majority of the carries (Mahone could be there as well). Amir will be in the slot primarily.

I don't know. We're still talking about freshmen here. I don't expect both to be getting the majority of the carries, no way that happens. Maybe GB steps in to the #3 or maybe even the #2 role by the end of the year as he continues to pick things up. They're not going to unseat all the upperclassmen though. While Amir would do great in the slot, I think he provides the kind of home run threat at RB that makes him a more dangerous weapon in the backfield (Although it does open him up to more injuries if a lineman gets his hands on him). The other conundrum is...if Amir moves to slot mostly, does TJ move back to the outside and do you take Chris Brown off the field?

 

[Domina Nostra]

My theory...

(1) GAIII and Cam McD are good RBs, that do some things very well, but appear to be a step below Riddick and Wood, in my estimation.
(2) We know that highly-ranked freshman RBs often perform at a very high level early in their careers, even in the SEC.

(3) However, Kelly talks as if RBs have a ton to learn in an offense. This stands somewhat in contrast to what I see around the country, but I assume this is because his offense is a little different.

(4) Learning an entire offense is one thing, learning 5 or 6 plays is another.


Taking these together, I think it is pretty likely that Kelly was saving Bryant and Folston for Michigan. He got them in enough that they got to feel the college game, but not enough to give Michigan tape on the 5or 6 plays that they have really mastered throughout the camp. Since Michigan is so early in the season, this deems like a possibility to me.

It's equally possible that he was just playing the best players. And some people get outraged at the suggestion anyone holds anythign back ever. But that was Temple, we got up early, and Michigan was only one week away.

 

[ulukinatme]

My theory...

(1) GAIII and Cam McD are good RBs, that do some things very well, but appear to be a step below Riddick and Wood, in my estimation.
(2) We know that highly-ranked freshman RBs often perform at a very high level early in their careers, even in the SEC.

(3) However, Kelly talks as if RBs have a ton to learn in an offense. This stands somewhat in contrast to what I see around the country, but I assume this is because his offense is a little different.

(4) Learning an entire offense is one thing, learning 5 or 6 plays is another.


Taking these together, I think it is pretty likely that Kelly was saving Bryant and Folston for Michigan. He got them in enough that they got to feel the college game, but not enough to give Michigan tape on the 5or 6 plays that they have really mastered throughout the camp. Since Michigan is so early in the season, this deems like a possibility to me.

It's equally possible that he was just playing the best players. And some people get outraged at the suggestion anyone holds anythign back ever. But that was Temple, we got up early, and Michigan was only one week away.

I don't know. Michigan is a pretty big game to be throwing your freshmen into if they're still struggling with the playbook. I can see where they may have a certain number of plays mastered and ready to go, but they're probably still adjusting to the speed of the game. This is a big time matchup here in prime time at the biggest college venue (Attendance-wise). Some freshmen have shined in the Michigan game, like Walker did. I can't think of any other freshmen that have played exceptionally in the last 12 years of the rivalry, and who knows when the last time a freshman did before that?

 

[Cackalacky]

By the years end (with all staying healthy) I see Amir and Mahone getting most of the reps in the slot and GB and Folston as the primary carriers. We may trend away from the 12 personnel and may go more 22 or 21, with Amir/Mahone in the slot and GB/Folston as the back (Just an opinionated hunch).

We could still have TJ and Niklas on the field with CB and/or Daniels. TJ is a playmaker and we will have to get him the ball too so he may get in the slot as well. If Rees can check into appropriate plays, going to 22 and 21 sets this could be seriously big time for our offense. So many options, especially with the pistol. Having a downhill runner inline with the Qb and a shifty slot with TJ and 1 or 2 huge receivers? Too awesome to think about what a defense would have to keep in mind on the field.

I am resigned to the fact we may only get 70 or so snaps a game. Assuming a balanced play call that is 35 +/- run plays to split. It will probably end up being more pass heavy this year.
Will we see GB/TF early this season? We will will see some, but I anticipate at least one or both taking over the majority of the carries. GAIII and Cam could easily slide back into where they were last year.

 

[wizards8507]

It can't be their spots to lose if they're at #4 and #5 on the depth chart, respectively. Heck, they may be #5 and #6 if Mahone is healthy, we don't know what he's going to look like once he's back. We've only seen what GB and TF can do in garbage time. So far Amir and Cam have shown me the most if we're just going off Temple tape. I'm not going to rule out GA III yet, but I think Cam definitely runs between the tackles better than the other two upperclassmen, and Amir has shown his instant burst of speed coupled with his ability to be shifty. I think Bryant is going to be special for sure, but he's not there yet. I'm not sure about TF. While he didn't get a lot of carries, it was 3 less than GA III and he wound up with 2.8 yac in garbage time. He did snag one pass though.

Has a Michigan depth chart been released? The most recent I've seen was Temple, and the fact is they WEREN'T #4 and #5. GAIII was first and Cam, Carlisle, and Bryant were all listed as "OR" at the #2 position. I'm reading between the lines a bit but I don't think BK is too happy with George at the moment. He's just not getting any better. He's always been a really fast dude who doesn't play the position properly, and that's STILL what he is. I'd rather see Cam do the Danny Woodhead thing and scamper for first downs. I cringe every time GAIII has the ball because it's only a matter of time before he blows out a knee.

 

[PANDFAN]

Has a Michigan depth chart been released? The most recent I've seen was Temple, and the fact is they WEREN'T #4 and #5. GAIII was first and Cam, Carlisle, and Bryant were all listed as "OR" at the #2 position. I'm reading between the lines a bit but I don't think BK is too happy with George at the moment. He's just not getting any better. He's always been a really fast dude who doesn't play the position properly, and that's STILL what he is. I'd rather see Cam do the Danny Woodhead thing and scamper for first downs. I cringe every time GAIII has the ball because it's only a matter of time before he blows out a knee.

yes, no changes
WR 7 TJ JONES*** 88 Corey Robinson
WR 10 DaVaris Daniels* 87 Daniel Smith
LT 70 ZACK MARTIN*** 57 Hunter Bivin
LG 66 CHRIS WATT*** 75 Mark Harrell
C 72 Nick Martin* 77 Matt Hegarty
RG 74 CHRISTIAN LOMBARD** 65 Conor Hanratty
RT 78 Ronnie Stanley 79 Steve Elmer
TE 85 TROY NIKLAS** 18 Ben Koyack**
82 Alex Welch
WR 2 Chris Brown* 17 James Onwualu
QB 11 TOMMY REES*** 12 Andrew Hendrix
RB 4 George Atkinson III** 3 Amir Carlisle
or 33 Cam McDaniel* or 1 Greg Bryant

Defense
DL 91 Sheldon Day* 90 Isaac Rochell
DL 1 LOUIS NIX III** 96 Kona Schwenke**
DL 7 STEPHON TUITT** 94 Jarron Jones
OLB 55 PRINCE SHEMBO*** 11 Ishaq Williams*
ILB 48 DAN FOX*** 59 Jarrett Grace*
ILB 44 CARLO CALABRESE*** 8 Kendall Moore**
OLB 9 Jaylon Smith 30 Ben Councell*
CB 6 KEIVARAE RUSSELL* 23 Lo Wood**
S 28 Austin Collinsworth** 22 Elijah Shumate*
S 41 MATTHIAS FARLEY* 16 Eilar Hardy
CB 2 BENNETT JACKSON*** 36 Cole Luke

Kicker/Punter To Be Determined during the week.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Michigan is a pretty big game to be throwing your freshmen into if they're still struggling with the playbook. I can see where they may have a certain number of plays mastered and ready to go, but they're probably still adjusting to the speed of the game.

This is my point. They would not be struggling with the play book. They would be doing one of a few things that they have potentially mastered.

It's not like Cam or GAIII are experienced and are used to the speed of the game. GAII's biggest problem seems to be his constant belief that he can outrun people even when he is not running full speed, and Cam's only really played against lesser opponents.

 

[Kak7304]

Just because Amir is a smaller, faster RB doesn't mean he's primarily going to be a slot guy.

 

[Cackalacky]

Our slot has been used by both the Z and a Rb. Riddick had 36 receptions (primarily from the z position). Throughout fall camp, it was said Amir and Mahone were both doing well in the slot position. That's not to say he won't be in at Rb and slide out to Z based on personnel. Due to injury concerns, I don't think he will be an inside the tackles RB. Alot hinges on Rees ability to get in a correct play.

Looking at the total rushing attempts last year Riddick had 190 and wood had 114.
Riddick had 36 receptions (I wanted targets but I can't find it). All other Rbs totaled less than 15 receptions.

So in essence that is 226 touches for Riddick. Can any one of our Rbs duplicate that this year? Maybe Amir can.

IMO, the Pistol with 2 Rbs give us a really good set to force the D to play both sides of the middle, while allowing Tommy to read the defense, do play action, and get our play makers into good matchups.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Just because Amir is a smaller, faster RB doesn't mean he's primarily going to be a slot guy.

Right, but it's a way to protect his body and get multiple RBs on the field at the same time.

 

[yankeeND]

Just because Amir is a smaller, faster RB doesn't mean he's primarily going to be a slot guy.

Of the three RB's not counting the FR, Amir looked the best to me. Cam looked very good as well, ripping off some great runs. GA3 didn't do bad but I thought he was the least impressive minus that 3rd down grab he made for a first down. It will be interesting to see what Kelly decides to do moving forward. Gut tells me Bryant starts to pick it up and gets more than his fair share soon. He is way too competitive to be watching from the sidelines. If he can protect Tommy it will be even sooner.

 

[ND NYC]

is it any wonder Elijah decommited?

 

[TDHeysus]

I was disappointed that GB didn't get in the game sooner, he was one of the players I REALLY wanted to see.(along with Jaylon Smith) ...however when Amir opens the game with a 45 yard run(and played like he did), I can see how its kinda hard to keep him off the field. Without saying anything negative about any other player(s); outside of Amir, I wanted to see GB on the field, and hopefully we'll see him in the 1 qtr against Michigan running with the big dogs.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

If he saw the field early, and puts on a clinic, my brain will melt in the best way possible.

 

[irishff1014]

Good Lord the last page and a half is a little bit crazy. I want him to play just as bad as anyone but this speculation about him being mad is a bit much.

 

[LeapinLeprechaun]

I honestly think by years end they need to look at GAIII, as a defensive back. He is super fast and the eye test shows that GB and Folston are obviously the more aggressive backs. I thought they screwed up by making him a running back in the first place. He has a better shot at making an NFL team as a defensive back.

 

[BGIF]

My theory...

(1) GAIII and Cam McD are good RBs, that do some things very well, but appear to be a step below Riddick and Wood, in my estimation.
(2) We know that highly-ranked freshman RBs often perform at a very high level early in their careers, even in the SEC.

(3) However, Kelly talks as if RBs have a ton to learn in an offense. This stands somewhat in contrast to what I see around the country, but I assume this is because his offense is a little different.

(4) Learning an entire offense is one thing, learning 5 or 6 plays is another.


Taking these together, I think it is pretty likely that Kelly was saving Bryant and Folston for Michigan. He got them in enough that they got to feel the college game, but not enough to give Michigan tape on the 5or 6 plays that they have really mastered throughout the camp. Since Michigan is so early in the season, this deems like a possibility to me.

It's equally possible that he was just playing the best players. And some people get outraged at the suggestion anyone holds anythign back ever. But that was Temple, we got up early, and Michigan was only one week away.

It's not just Kelly's offense which is complex. Lou Holtz didn't start freshman RBs in his option attack. And let's be candid, the RB didn't have any decisions to make. It was the QB that made the read and the decision to hand off or not to the FB. Then it was the QB's decision again make the next read and pitch the ball or keep it. IF the QB pitched it, the RB had to catch the pitch and make one decision, go wide or cut inside. Rod Culver and other talented freshman like him STILL had to work themselves into the rotation by demonstrating capablity. Blocking was a skill Holtz expected his RBs to do. Most HS stud RBs do little of that in HS.

When Julius Jones was a freshman, he got used sparingly in the first 5 or 6 games and fans groaned loudly. He was a much better athlete than those playing ahead of him. After he finally got to start he was interviewed and asked about having to stand on the sidelines in those early games. He commented that he needed every bit of that time to learn the plays, the audibles, and the skills he hadn't HAD TO develop earlier. The speed of the game was faster but his legs could deal with that. It was his brain that had to work harder to process all the new material and be on the same page with his QB.

When Clausen was a freshman some fan was screaming for a new RB to start as the playbook wasn't so difficult. I replied, "It is pretty simple to memorize a few hundred pages. But the price for not being fully ready to play will be clear when the ref calls a time out and the cameras zoom in on the trainers working on a motionless form on the ground you'll hear in the background from that rookie RB, "Sorry man, I didn't realize that audible made be blitz protection. I though I was supposed to run a wheel route. Can you move your legs yet, Jimmy"

It's not just about which hole to hit.


Right now ND has two QBs, Rees and Hendrix. Looking at Tommy's limited mobility viz a viz the Lombard Whiff, and then the 4th quarter offense without Rees, ND can't afford a RB on the field that can't adjust to audibles seamlessly, can't read blitz, nor be able to provide pass protection when it's necessary. Otherwise we'll be down to one QB.

Bryant and Folston are still asking directions to get around campus. Alford, Martin, and Kelly will have then on the field as they show they can handle all the aspects of the position.