'14 NC RB Elijah Hood (UNC Verbal)

[WestCoast]

But it's night and day compared to what they'd experience at a school like FSU or Ole Miss. Those guys are, as they say, "drowning in it".

FSU/Ole Miss teach their chicks how to waterboard? Brutal.

 

[woolybug25]

I've studied at ND and at a top rung Ivy. ND really doesn't hold a candle to say Harvard/Yale on a global scale. ND should academically be compared to "national level" schools like Rice, Duke, Vandy...maybe if you stretch it Northwestern.

Harvard and Yale truly are global institutions, and something like 50% of Yale undergrads are international students. Notre Dame just doesn't compare.

That said, i wouldnt fault a player for turning down a free ride at ND vs paying full tuition at an ivy.

I actually agree with that fully (although I don't see NW as a stretch and I would add Stanford to that list). Yet we hear no screams when players on our team have offers to Harvard and chose ND instead.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The Grove = at least one 5* per year.

 

[greyhammer90]

I actually agree with that fully (although I don't see NW as a stretch and I would add Stanford to that list). Yet we hear no screams when players on our team have offers to Harvard and chose ND instead.

I was under the impression that Ivy League schools like Harvard don't offer full rides for football?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I've studied at ND and at a top rung Ivy. ND really doesn't hold a candle to say Harvard/Yale on a global scale. ND should academically be compared to "national level" schools like Rice, Duke, Vandy...maybe if you stretch it Northwestern.

Harvard and Yale truly are global institutions, and something like 50% of Yale undergrads are international students. Notre Dame just doesn't compare.

What does that even mean? ND's a small liberal arts school, so it obviously doesn't appeal to international rankings which focus on graduate research. Harvard and Yale have been among the best schools in the world for a long time, so it's unsurprising that their brands have more international cache than ND's. That's hardly dispositive of how ND compares academically, though.

ND's just barely behind Yale on 30y ROI, and is significantly ahead of all the schools you mentioned save for Duke.

 

[woolybug25]

I was under the impression that Ivy League schools like Harvard don't offer full rides for football?

They don't. I said "offers" as in "offers to play football". That being said, they have tuition assistance that acts almost like a free ride. Its more work for a player, but nowadays an athlete in the Ivy's can go to school for very little out of pocket.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

FSU/Ole Miss teach their chicks how to waterboard? Brutal.

It's part of orientation for freshman football players there. I hear it's very enjoyable.

 

[T Town Tommy]

What does that even mean? ND's a small liberal arts school, so it obviously doesn't appeal to international rankings which focus on graduate research. Harvard and Yale have been among the best schools in the world for a long time, so it's unsurprising that their brand has more international cache than ND's. That's hardly dispositive of how ND compares academically, though.

ND's just barely behind Yale on 30y ROI, and is significantly ahead of all the schools you mentioned save for Duke.

Whiskey... you should be in charge of parental relations at ND with recruits who are considering ND. You are bringing the facts. Well done.

 

[IrishLax]

I've studied at ND and at a top rung Ivy. ND really doesn't hold a candle to say Harvard/Yale on a global scale. ND should academically be compared to "national level" schools like Rice, Duke, Vandy...maybe if you stretch it Northwestern.

Harvard and Yale truly are global institutions, and something like 50% of Yale undergrads are international students. Notre Dame just doesn't compare.

That said, i wouldnt fault a player for turning down a free ride at ND vs paying full tuition at an ivy.

You better duck.

He's not wrong about the "global scale" thing. Nationally, Notre Dame is great for undergrad and the alumni network... a lot of successful people who did undergrad at ND. Worldwide? The big research institutions even have more name recognition than ND because of their large international enrollments and tons of graduate research $$. But most of us aren't looking for a job in India... or if we were, it'd be through an American company. I'm not really sure why we would care about having a 50% international enrollment (I'd actually consider that a bad thing for undergrad, probably?).

For the schools he listed, the objective quality of student admitted to each school is basically equivalent. SAT range for each: NW = 1380-1540, Duke = 1350-1530, ND = 1340-1520. Nothing wrong with his statement there. Notre Dame graduates tend to outperform those of all the schools he listed in their careers (measured by earnings) and be very close to those from the Ivies. But for pure academia... I'd put ND a step behind Chicago, Stanford, and a few Ivies.

Business as a joke major? Even as a snobbish engineer who looks down on those who didn't have to pull regular all-nighters, I have no idea what he could possibly mean.

 

[clashmore_jon]

What does that even mean? ND's a small liberal arts school, so it obviously doesn't appeal to international rankings which focus on graduate research. Harvard and Yale have been among the best schools in the world for a long time, so it's unsurprising that their brands have more international cache than ND's. That's hardly dispositive of how ND compares academically, though.

ND's just barely behind Yale on 30y ROI, and is significantly ahead of all the schools you mentioned save for Duke.

The point I was making is that ND is not nearly the global power as Harvard/Yale. Which you basically just restated. I was making that point in response to a previous post that was not aligned with our position.

 

[IrishLax]

The point I was making is that ND is not nearly the global power as Harvard/Yale. Which you basically just restated. I was making that point in response to a previous post that was not aligned with our position.

This is an irrefutable statement. Not really sure the bone some have to pick here.

Big cleanup incoming later to move these OT posts elsewhere... get your akamademics discussion in now.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

This is an irrefutable statement. Not really sure the bone some have to pick here.

Big cleanup incoming later to move these OT posts elsewhere... get your akamademics discussion in now.

Where does Ball So Hard University rank?

 

[woolybug25]

Can you guys explain why you put Stanford in the same class as Ivy League? I see them a rung above ND academically, but under Ivy. Is that just based on opinion or some type of actual metric?

 

[T Town Tommy]

Work with another engineer who went to Mich St for undergrad degree and then to UM for his grad work. Simply put, he is no better in the field than the other engineers I work with... many who received their degrees like me at much lesser known schools. Not using this as a blanket statement or a poke at MSU or UM but for the money I don't see their engineering paths being much different than most.
And no... this really isn't relevant to Hood so sorry I contributed to the derailment of the thread.

 

[WestCoast]

Big cleanup incoming later to move these OT posts elsewhere... get your akamademics discussion in now.

 

[OCIrish]

FSU/Ole Miss teach their chicks how to waterboard? Brutal.

I prefer the term "motor boating".......

 

[Domina Nostra]

Can you guys explain why you put Stanford in the same class as Ivy League? I see them a rung above ND academically, but under Ivy. Is that just based on opinion or some type of actual metric?

I consider it more prestigious than every school accept Harvard and Yale (Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Columbia). The only other Ivy I'd put up there with it, at least for undergraduate, is Princeton.

Besides the rankings, I just think of it as California being a huge place with tons of money and business. Lots of people don't ever want to leave there (or the West more generally), and so they send their best and brightest to Stanford.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Everything has changed since Holtz, really thanks to Monk Malloy. We were at the top of CFB, and then we actively tried to basically disassociate the university from football. Pay, facilities, etc. all fell WAY behind to the point where when Willingham took over it was the perfect combination of incompetence and institutional failure.

We still get 5 players. Last year we signed FOUR of them and 3... by early reports... seem to be great fits. But there are a lot of 5 players with all kinds of baggage that we don't cater too and will accordingly wash out. And even the ones we do cater to will continue to be tough pulls because of the way the recruiting game has changed. Just have to live with it and accept the fact that most years we will be coming into the season with ~80 players if we continue to dig for diamonds and go actively into places in the south. The alternative is going the Stanford route... small recruiting classes, not much focus on high players unless they're truly a perfect fit, lots of unheralded players that you think you can develop. I don't think that's a good idea. Really, all our issues could be fixed by simply aiming to oversign by a player or two to account for attrition... or taking JUCOs.



This is largely contradictory. Yes, during and around Willingham we were devoid of talent. But you just listed a bunch of high draft picks since Weis started recruiting and Kelly started developing. In modern history... which is what kids would be looking at... we're doing just fine, if not great. Since 2010, we have 7 players drafted in the top 2 rounds. This is MUCH better than the other Midwest powers. Michigan has only 2. Ohio State has only 3. Stanford? 5. Alabama is the king of the hill with 17 and no one approaches them. Florida has 11.

So this is obviously not the issue. We're MUCH better in recent history at putting kids in the league than most schools we're recruiting against and nationally only fall behind the SEC powers. And we're going to have, barring injury, at least 2 more 1st round draft picks this year.

I think we need to look at that a bit closer. Quinn was in those numbers and he flopped hard, same with Clausen. Rudolph has been excellent, Tate has been okay, Floyd is still learning to develop. We will see what happens with Teo and Eifert. All the guys we mentioned were offensive except for Teo. So, recruiting elite defensive talent is an uphill battle. Yes, Nix and Tuitt will help, but, IMO, we need more than just 3 or 4 years of high picks. Especially, when you consider they guys we are going after usually do have offers from Bama, Florida, LSU, USC, OSU etc.

We also need kids that are 7,8 or 9 years old rooting for and following ND again. Many of the 17 year olds today really grew up with ND being inconsistent are largely out of the national title picture year in and year out. It was only last year that ND was part of the realistic National Title picture in late October of early November in a long time. We follow that up with a BCS bowl game this year, we are on our way.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I should have paid closer attention to the post clashmore jon was responding to. I'd suggest that: (1) he took BGIF's use of "world class" a bit too literally; and (2) ND > Harvard for football players shouldn't be controversial.

I agree that Harvard and Yale having superior international cache is indisputable.

 

[woolybug25]

I consider it more prestigious than every school accept Harvard and Yale (Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Columbia). The only other Ivy I'd put up there with it, at least for undergraduate, is Princeton.

Besides the rankings, I just think of it as California being a huge place with tons of money and business. Lots of people don't ever want to leave there (or the West more generally), and so they send their best and brightest to Stanford.

What rankings does it perform better? Also, its not an actual Ivy League school. It also doesn't have the international cache that Ivy Leagues do.

 

[clashmore_jon]

he took BGIF's use of "world class" a bit too literally

Probably. but it was a nice diversion mid-workday

 

[BeauBenken]

Where does Ball So Hard University rank?

#BallerState

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Standford Med is always believed to be the top med school. At least among laypeople.

 

[PerthDomer]

when people talk about top undergrads they use the acronym HPYSMIT. Harvard Princeton, Yale, Stanford, MIT and then everyone else. in terms of med schools Stanford is the second best in the bay area. UCSF is just better. In terms of med school in general it's the 2 H's and then everyone else. Hopkins and Harvard.

 

[ThePiombino]

Surely there is another thread for all this.

 

[IrishLax]

I think we need to look at that a bit closer. Quinn was in those numbers and he flopped hard, same with Clausen. Rudolph has been excellent, Tate has been okay, Floyd is still learning to develop. We will see what happens with Teo and Eifert. All the guys we mentioned were offensive except for Teo. So, recruiting elite defensive talent is an uphill battle. Yes, Nix and Tuitt will help, but, IMO, we need more than just 3 or 4 years of high picks. Especially, when you consider they guys we are going after usually do have offers from Bama, Florida, LSU, USC, OSU etc.

OK let's pump the breaks for a second. First, Quinn was not in those numbers. He was drafted several years before the 2010 draft. Second, you left off Harrison Smith? 1st round draft pick and played near a pro-bowl level as a rookie. Third, for every "bust" we have so does every other school. For Alabama, everyone besides Julio Jones and Trent Richardson has basically been a "bust" to some degree. You're talking about the vast majority of their players failing to produce at the level they should for a high draft pick and/or completely washing out of the league. I'd have to look up Stanford's 5 and Michigan's 2 and Ohio State's 3 to see how they're doing... but I'm imagining there are busts there.

Why would we need more than 3-4 years of high picks? That's the entire range for which Kelly has been coaching and developing players. And it's pre-dates when current recruits even starting high school... so the entire time they've been going through recruiting, we've been putting guys in the league better than a lot of power programs. None of the schools I listed besides Alabama even have 3-4 years of consistently putting out top tier talent at the rate of ND. I'm sure there are other places (like maybe LSU? Florida State?) that I didn't look at that are putting more kids in the first 2 rounds recently than ND... but the idea that kids don't want to come to ND because we're not getting enough kids drafted just doesn't jive with the facts.

We also need kids that are 7,8 or 9 years old rooting for and following ND again. Many of the 17 year olds today really grew up with ND being inconsistent are largely out of the national title picture year in and year out. It was only last year that ND was part of the realistic National Title picture in late October of early November in a long time. We follow that up with a BCS bowl game this year, we are on our way.

I couldn't agree with this more. Momentum and perception are huge. Because of the blowout + Te'o hoax + list everything else that happened this offseason, there are a lot of people who are skeptical about ND still. We've been to 3 BCS bowls in the past 8 seasons... and while that isn't terrible, it isn't good enough either to silence negative recruiting and doubts many kids might have that come from parts of the country or families that aren't ND friendly. This is a very important season towards changing perception and I'm crossing my fingers that Tommy can get it done, and the BoT gets their heads out of their collective asses to get this contract extension finalized.

 

[ACamp1900]

Surely there is another thread for all this.

This. I just went through two pages of this thread and maybe two posts even mention Hood... lol.. not that it isn't great dialogue...

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Standford Med is always believed to be the top med school. At least among laypeople.

Where is this Standford School you talk about and what does the opinion of people getting laid have to do w which schools are best? And remind me how this all has to do w the recruitment of one Elijah Hood? Color me confused.

 

[GowerND11]

This. I just went through two pages of this thread and maybe two posts even mention Hood... lol.. not that it isn't great dialogue...

Haha, isn't this why we created this thread? http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/leprechaun-lounge/79907-off-topic-posts-formerly-found-recruiting-profiles.html

 

[Irish#1]

I understand wanting to stay close to home for family reasons, but if his parents wanted him to stay close to home then I find that be a huge disservice to any child.

The opportunity to graduate from Notre Dame, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke, Northwestern, etc. without any debt is an absolute godsend. I just don't get it when parents want to limit their children for their own satisfaction.

My parents were not like that and it rubbed off on me. I appreciated it tremendously that they pushed me academically, but let me make my own decision.

I respect the Hood family's decision, but I strongly disagree with it. It bothered me when my friends in high school "stayed home" instead of continuing to challenge themselves academically and socially. To me, student-athlete or not, college is a time to grow as a person. Sometimes circumstances dictate that students stay closer - but declining such wonderful opportunities (or being talked out of them) is silly.

To each their own I suppose....

Well said. One of my boys had a scholarship to wrestle and be very close to home. He decided to go to Purdue and get a degree in Landscape Architecture. This tore me up inside, but I knew it was his decision and it was a good decision. I had to grow up, not be selfish and let him make it.