'14 CO ATH Nathan Starks (UCLA Verbal)

[pkt77242]

And both are criminal offenses.

Is he even being charged with a criminal offense? I don't believe that I have read anywhere that he is being charged. So if that is the rumor or even truth does it get held against him if there are no criminal charges?

 

[Buster Bluth]

Is he even being charged with a criminal offense? I don't believe that I have read anywhere that he is being charged. So if that is the rumor or even truth does it get held against him if there are no criminal charges?

No, which strengthens my assumption that he was busted at a party by parents. You don't get caught with molly by the cops and live to tell about it. I'm on a grand jury right now and see plenty of cases with it; it doesn't take much (in weight) to be ****ed for a long time.

 

[dwshade]

I'm sure it does matter, if it even gets that far. They aren't stupid.

I know 0% about his situation, so I won't pretend like I do. But there's a HUGE difference between a guy slinging dope on a street corner and wealthy high school kids being immature/experimenting with drugs. One launders money, kills people systematically, and generally sends you to prison for a stint to two or ten; the other is not even uncommon and certainly isn't the variable that makes someone a loser. I'd bet any amount of money Alford (and anyone with a brain) sees it that way too. Will ND admissions see it that way? I'm sure they're cognizant of it too, but that doesn't mean it will prevent the rejection. I think that's a fair way of stating it.

If you think ND would admit him you might be on ecstasy. Name the last time ND admitted ANY student who had been expelled from school his SR. year. And if you think he gets an exception because he plays football then you don't understand ND. Suppose this incident had occurred his FR. year at ND. Selling ecstasy to rich kids who want to "experiment" at ND. He'd be expelled so fast his head would spin. I applaud Tony Alford for his mentoring efforts and I hope the kid gets his act together (there were other problems with him outside of this incident) but ND isn't taking him.

 

[IrishLax]

ND dropped Yuri Wright for character concerns, the chief publicly known offense being the content of some tweets. With that as precedent, I find it hard to believe that there would be a scenario where we could take Starks.

 

[Rhode Irish]

If you think ND would admit him you might be on ecstasy. Name the last time ND admitted ANY student who had been expelled from school his SR. year. And if you think he gets an exception because he plays football then you don't understand ND. Suppose this incident had occurred his FR. year at ND. Selling ecstasy to rich kids who want to "experiment" at ND. He'd be expelled so fast his head would spin. I applaud Tony Alford for his mentoring efforts and I hope the kid gets his act together (there were other problems with him outside of this incident) but ND isn't taking him.

I agree with this, but I also agree with Buster's point that the guys that get the drugs and sell them to their rich friends commonly go on to good colleges (where they may or may not continue to get drugs and sell them to their rich friends) and then become bankers, lawyers, managers, accountants, etc., and that isn't the same thing as being a drug dealer (where selling drugs is actually your career, versus being your role in your social circle). Somebody will look past it and give the kid a chance, and somebody should. It just probably won't be ND, and that is OK.

 

[dwshade]

I agree with this, but I also agree with Buster's point that the guys that get the drugs and sell them to their rich friends commonly go on to good colleges (where they may or may not continue to get drugs and sell them to their rich friends) and then become bankers, lawyers, managers, accountants, etc., and that isn't the same thing as being a drug dealer (where selling drugs is actually your career, versus being your role in your social circle). Somebody will look past it and give the kid a chance, and somebody should. It just probably won't be ND, and that is OK.

I don't disagree at all with this. Agree.

 

[IrishLax]

I agree with this, but I also agree with Buster's point that the guys that get the drugs and sell them to their rich friends commonly go on to good colleges (where they may or may not continue to get drugs and sell them to their rich friends) and then become bankers, lawyers, managers, accountants, etc., and that isn't the same thing as being a drug dealer (where selling drugs is actually your career, versus being your role in your social circle). Somebody will look past it and give the kid a chance, and somebody should. It just probably won't be ND, and that is OK.

Pun intended? Or awesome coincidence?

 

[Emcee77]

Floyd was already a part of the ND family. There is a major difference between giving a second chance to a guy who you have invested something in and who has built a reputation and inviting a kid with a major red flag into the group.

Suppose this incident had occurred his FR. year at ND. Selling ecstasy to rich kids who want to "experiment" at ND. He'd be expelled so fast his head would spin.

I've seen this reasoning a couple of times today, but I'm not sure how sound it is. Is denying a kid admission to ND because he sold drugs (perhaps only once) in his past the same as throwing a current student out because he sold ecstasy at ND? Not quite, is it?

When you get to ND, and agree to abide by the rules of DuLac, and then breach your agreement by selling drugs, you've done wrong by ND. ND has to punish you for breaking its rules, the rules you agreed to follow when you enrolled. They can't be seen to tolerate their own students engaging in that behavior; if left unchecked behavior like that could turn the campus into a lawless environment. On the other hand, when you've made a mistake in your past, even if the mistake is something ND wouldn't approve of its students doing, you haven't done wrong by ND, not yet. There's no punishment motive. ND just has to decide whether your action was an isolated mistake by a basically good kid, or whether it's an indication that you are a bad kid. It's an altogether different situation, and ND will look at it through an entirely different lens.

That's my view, anyway. It may be way off. And of course I don't know what happened ... like everyone is saying, if Starks was truly dealing drugs, there's definitely no way he is getting into ND. But if he sold something once ... that might keep him out but I don't know if we can say for sure.

 

[95NDAlumNM]

I agree with this, but I also agree with Buster's point that the guys that get the drugs and sell them to their rich friends commonly go on to good colleges (where they may or may not continue to get drugs and sell them to their rich friends) and then become bankers, lawyers, managers, accountants, etc., and that isn't the same thing as being a drug dealer (where selling drugs is actually your career, versus being your role in your social circle). Somebody will look past it and give the kid a chance, and somebody should. It just probably won't be ND, and that is OK.

So you are talking about republicans!

 

[Redbar]

Pun intended? Or awesome coincidence?

With what I know of Rhode...it could be either.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Pun intended? Or awesome coincidence?

Ugh....wish it was intended. That one just got by my. Totally missed it.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

I've seen this reasoning a couple of times today, but I'm not sure how sound it is. Is denying a kid admission to ND because he sold drugs (perhaps only once) in his past the same as throwing a current student out because he sold ecstasy at ND? Not quite, is it?

I'm not quite sure the above represents my position. Regardless, I stand by my reasoning. If you care to discuss we can PM.

 

[Emcee77]

I'm not quite sure the above represents my position. Regardless, I stand by my reasoning. If you care to discuss we can PM.

No, you're right, I guess it doesn't. That was more like what dwshade said. Your comments were only alike in that they seemed to be saying that ND may be more lenient with a current student who broke its rules while enrolled at ND than with a student who had made a mistake before enrolling. I could be wrong but I think the opposite might be true if the transgression was an isolated mistake. In other words, ND might be more likely to forgive a mistake made and paid for some time before the student enrolled at ND than it is to forgive a mistake made by a student WHILE he is at ND, because ND might need to make an example of the current student.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If you think ND would admit him you might be on ecstasy. Name the last time ND admitted ANY student who had been expelled from school his SR. year. And if you think he gets an exception because he plays football then you don't understand ND. Suppose this incident had occurred his FR. year at ND. Selling ecstasy to rich kids who want to "experiment" at ND. He'd be expelled so fast his head would spin. I applaud Tony Alford for his mentoring efforts and I hope the kid gets his act together (there were other problems with him outside of this incident) but ND isn't taking him.

Well again, we don't know anything.

But for the record, you don't have to sell to be charged with selling drugs. You can get caught with over an ounce of weed and you're instantly, legally speaking, a drug dealer. There is an amount with molly and it's of course very low.

I have no expectations of him getting into ND, but if it happened it's because he was a drug dealer per se and demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that he's matured.

 

[autry_denson]

I agree with this, but I also agree with Buster's point that the guys that get the drugs and sell them to their rich friends commonly go on to good colleges (where they may or may not continue to get drugs and sell them to their rich friends) and then become bankers, lawyers, managers, accountants, etc., and that isn't the same thing as being a drug dealer (where selling drugs is actually your career, versus being your role in your social circle). Somebody will look past it and give the kid a chance, and somebody should. It just probably won't be ND, and that is OK.

I agree with this completely, and it's also a very revealing observation about criminality and 'character'. There are as many drug dealers in wealthy neighborhoods as there are in tough neighborhoods, but the consequences differ wildly.

Multiple types of evidence (self-reports from surveys, emergency room data on overdoses) tell us that there are *more* drug users (for all drugs except for marijuana, which is equally prevalent) in wealthy neighborhoods than in poor neighborhoods - but again, the consequences of use are totally different.

A kid growing up in a poor neighborhood who does or deals drugs is at high risk of spending a long time in prison and essentially ending his chances of being a productive member of society. A kid growing up in a middle or upper-income neighborhood who does or deals drugs doesn't have nearly the same risk - they're unlikely to get caught, they are much more likely to get second and third chances.

Something to keep in mind when we're talking about character issues of recruits with different backgrounds. The same behaviors are viewed very differently depending on where the kid is from and what he looks like.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Sorry fellas didn't meant to kick the hornets nest, i was just interested with whats going on with his recruitment.

 

[irishpat183]

I agree with this, but I also agree with Buster's point that the guys that get the drugs and sell them to their rich friends commonly go on to good colleges (where they may or may not continue to get drugs and sell them to their rich friends) and then become bankers, lawyers, managers, accountants, etc., and that isn't the same thing as being a drug dealer (where selling drugs is actually your career, versus being your role in your social circle). Somebody will look past it and give the kid a chance, and somebody should. It just probably won't be ND, and that is OK.

WTF???

LOL!!!!!


This is just so off base. No, I'm sorry...most drug dealers don't go on to be bankers and lawyers....LOL. And if you sell drugs, you are a drug dealer. I don't care if it's too yoru buddies or strangers. You deal drugs.



This is just mind boggling.

 

[irishpat183]

The last few posts of this thread are hilarious.


"Well, he's not REALLY a drug dealer...he just sells to friends and most guys like that end up successful"



MORONIC

 

[autry_denson]

WTF???

LOL!!!!!


This is just so off base. No, I'm sorry...most drug dealers don't go on to be bankers and lawyers....LOL. And if you sell drugs, you are a drug dealer. I don't care if it's too yoru buddies or strangers. You deal drugs.



This is just mind boggling.

classic irishpat, living up to the hype!

 

[Andy in Sactown]

The last few posts of this thread are hilarious.


"Well, he's not REALLY a drug dealer...he just sells to friends and most guys like that end up successful"



MORONIC

LOUD NOISES! WHO IS MOLLY? IS SHE HOT? DOES SHE HAVE A SISTER? IS SHE HOT?

So confused.

 

[IrishLion]

I still laugh whenever Pat posts because I read in Charlie Day's voice.

 

[koonja]

I still laugh whenever Pat posts because I read in Charlie Day's voice.

+1

And Pat, there's a difference between Johnny depp in 'Blow' and a kid hypothetically 'picking up the loot' that he and his friends agree to buy together, then selling their share to his two buddies.

Not saying its ok, but there's a difference.

 

[Buster Bluth]

WTF???

LOL!!!!!


This is just so off base. No, I'm sorry...most drug dealers don't go on to be bankers and lawyers....LOL. And if you sell drugs, you are a drug dealer. I don't care if it's too yoru buddies or strangers. You deal drugs.



This is just mind boggling.

Of all of my buddies from whom you could buy weed at my job on campus, 95% of them I would label as "very successful." From a 3.9 in Pharm grad school to getting into OSU Law. The one borderline guy liked shrooms a bit too much and teaches HS history now...

Alcohol is a drug. This country is obsessed with alcohol. This forum has a thread or two devoted to the consumption of various types of alcohol. Replace alcohol with drug and you can immediately see how asinine this country's opinion on "drugs" is.

Whats really nuts is how we like that recruits come to ND on visits and go out with players and yeah, DO DRUGS. All who do that are guilty of consuming DRUGS...ILLEGALLY!

Now I'm going to get off work in fifteen and go to the bars tonight and DO DRUGS! It's going to be great!

 

[Rhode Irish]

WTF???

LOL!!!!!


This is just so off base. No, I'm sorry...most drug dealers don't go on to be bankers and lawyers....LOL. And if you sell drugs, you are a drug dealer. I don't care if it's too yoru buddies or strangers. You deal drugs.



This is just mind boggling.

You're right, most drug dealers don't go on to fabulous careers in other fields. As I said, drug dealers sell drugs for a living.

You know those schools where 100% of the graduates go to college? Guess what? Those schools have drugs in them, and somebody is selling it. I know, because I went to one of those schools. And the guy who got all the drugs for everyone was by far the best business person in the school, and now makes more money than all of us selling legal things. I knew kids in college the same way. Just because you haven't been exposed to something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know that what I said is true, not because I assume or wish or theorize that it might be true, but because I know from personal experience that it is true.

 

[Emcee77]

Of all of my buddies from whom you could buy weed at my job on campus, 95% of them I would label as "very successful." From a 3.9 in Pharm grad school to getting into OSU Law. The one borderline guy liked shrooms a bit too much and teaches HS history now...

You're right, most drug dealers don't go on to fabulous careers in other fields. As I said, drug dealers sell drugs for a living.

You know those schools where 100% of the graduates go to college? Guess what? Those schools have drugs in them, and somebody is selling it. I know, because I went to one of those schools. And the guy who got all the drugs for everyone was by far the best business person in the school, and now makes more money than all of us selling legal things. I knew kids in college the same way. Just because you haven't been exposed to something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know that what I said is true, not because I assume or wish or theorize that it might be true, but because I know from personal experience that it is true.

Right and right. I knew plenty of people growing up who used drugs often and sold them among their friends and are now extremely successful professionals. I would definitely agree with Rhode that that is "common." The idea that a person who experiments with or sold drugs in his youth doesn't belong at ND is really kind of absurd when (I promise this is true) there are MANY people at ND who did those things while they were young and then went on to become successful, drug-free citizens.

P.S. the H.S. history teacher is "borderline" successful? In 5 years or so, ask the lawyer if he'd rather be teaching H.S. history. When I was a litigation associate at a downtown law firm/legal sweatshop, high school teacher was an aspirational job for me.

 

[irishroo]

So consensus is that picking up drugs for your friends is not the same as slinging rocks on the corner, but even still he probably doesn't get in to Notre Dame? Agreed on both counts.

 

[Buster Bluth]

P.S. the H.S. history teacher is "borderline" successful? In 5 years or so, ask the lawyer if he'd rather be teaching H.S. history. When I was a litigation associate at a downtown law firm/legal sweatshop, high school teacher was an aspirational job for me.

It doesn't go from borderline successful to very successful. He is less than very successful for other reasons, he fell into the job so to speak. I only used the other examples (Pharm/Law school) because people equate jobs/education with success. I don't always feel that way.

btw I'd teach the hell out of history and then go home and vape and not think twice about how awesome my life is. After all: "Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Emcee77]

It doesn't go from borderline successful to very successful. He is less than very successful for other reasons, he fell into the job so to speak. I only used the other examples (Pharm/Law school) because people equate jobs/education with success. I don't always feel that way.

btw I'd teach the hell out of history and then go home and vape and not think twice about how awesome my life is. After all: "Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica." - Abraham Lincoln

Oh, haha, I follow ya.

 

[irishpat183]

Of all of my buddies from whom you could buy weed at my job on campus, 95% of them I would label as "very successful." From a 3.9 in Pharm grad school to getting into OSU Law. The one borderline guy liked shrooms a bit too much and teaches HS history now...

Alcohol is a drug. This country is obsessed with alcohol. This forum has a thread or two devoted to the consumption of various types of alcohol. Replace alcohol with drug and you can immediately see how asinine this country's opinion on "drugs" is.

Whats really nuts is how we like that recruits come to ND on visits and go out with players and yeah, DO DRUGS. All who do that are guilty of consuming DRUGS...ILLEGALLY!

Now I'm going to get off work in fifteen and go to the bars tonight and DO DRUGS! It's going to be great!

You're right, most drug dealers don't go on to fabulous careers in other fields. As I said, drug dealers sell drugs for a living.

You know those schools where 100% of the graduates go to college? Guess what? Those schools have drugs in them, and somebody is selling it. I know, because I went to one of those schools. And the guy who got all the drugs for everyone was by far the best business person in the school, and now makes more money than all of us selling legal things. I knew kids in college the same way. Just because you haven't been exposed to something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know that what I said is true, not because I assume or wish or theorize that it might be true, but because I know from personal experience that it is true.

And I have about a million other examples of guys being total failures for simply "picking up drugs" for their buddies. Those far outweigh the guys that you mention.

The **** you guys are mentioning only happens in the movies, fellas.

 

[Rhode Irish]

And I have about a million other examples of guys being total failures for simply "picking up drugs" for their buddies. Those far outweigh the guys that you mention.

The **** you guys are mentioning only happens in the movies, fellas.

In the movies and in my life, apparently. As autrey_denson alluded to, who gets caught and becomes a failure and who doesn't has a lot to do with socioeconomics. Kids in affluent towns and schools do just as much drugs as kids in poor towns, but for a variety of reasons the suppliers in the affluent towns stay out of trouble long enough to outgrow it and move on about 95% of the time (anecdotally - I don't have actual statistics just observations from my life). There are obviously exceptions on both sides (rich kids who get caught and poor kids that make it), but otherwise that is the distinction we are talking about here.