Are we raising a generation of sissies?

[WestCoast]

I think one of our biggest problems is that everyone thinks everyone else is the problem.

No, I am the problem. You are the problem. Not some anonymous person somewhere out there in the world. I can only change me. So critically analyze yourself and your own issues and work on that.

 

[Cackalacky]

There is a distinct double-standard:

We complain that kids spend too much time on the internet and playing video games, and look at our post counts and all the video game threads.

We complain that kids are entitled, and then look at how quick threads go south here when a player decommits/transfers or another program does something we deem "cheating" without any evidence to back it up.

So you are a pussy too then?

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think one of our biggest problems is that everyone thinks everyone else is the problem.

No, I am the problem. You are the problem. Not some anonymous person somewhere out there in the world. I can only change me. So critically analyze yourself and your own issues and work on that.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Won't get in a word twisting contest, but I would not use the word enlightened to describe the latest generation. The country is soft, entitled, and losing freedoms everyday. If that means the world has passed me by, I'm giving it a kind wave! What made this country great for so many years was a tireless work effort, personal accountability, and community. Those three things are on the decline. If calling that out as a problem if considered bitching, I guess I'm guilty.

I think it is a matter of perspective. The world certainly isn't perfect, and no generation of teenagers or recent college grads is what you would call "enlightened." But overall, the unwillingness of society to accept racism, sexism, bullying, discrimination, bigotry, etc., is an advancement even though it is sometimes criticized as being too sensitive. As far as the virtues of sacrifice, hard work, etc., I do think we may have lost something there, but I know plenty of younger people who work hard and behave responsibly.

 

[Emcee77]

There are weak people in every generation. There are certainly plenty in this generation. At the same time, people sitting around bitching about it, reminiscing about how tough they used to be and prescribing their solution for fixing the "problem" is as pathetic as anything else.

The "everybody gets a trophy" is a well-meaning but ultimately misguided philosophy, but it isn't nearly as prevalent as some make it sound. A lot of what people identify as evidence of pussification or political correctness is really just the evolution of culture and the growing enlightenment of the people. Complaining about how terrible young people are is the first sign that the world has passed you by.

This, definitely. "Everybody gets a trophy" is no big deal. Having been raised in that environment, I can promise you that when you get a trophy, and you see that everyone else got the same trophy, you don't care. It literally has no effect on you at all. You do not think for one second, "Wow, I must be good because I got a trophy." You are not satisfied with the same trophy that everybody got. You only think that you are good when you WIN, and you aren't satisfied till you get the big trophy that the WINNERS get. That was true of prior generations and its true now, regardless of how many trophies people give out now because they are trying to be nice. So I hate hearing about how "everybody gets a trophy." That just doesn't matter. The trophy just commemorates the season; kids are not so dumb that they think it means they did well. Participation "awards" are not awards, and kids realize that.

But that's not necessarily to say that there's nothing wrong with the way we raise kids. I'm not sure whether this is just a current problem or something that's been a problem for every generation, but I do see a lot of this:

You have an entire generation of kids . . . taught they are all special and destined to be appointed head of UNICEF as soon as they graduate from college with their poetry degrees.

I see a lot of kids who graduate from college without realizing how hard you have to work just to get opportunities. They think they can just apply for this or that job and of course they'll be selected because they were officers of the College Such-and-such Club or whatever. Well, everyone has those credentials. No one's just going to give you anything. The hard work doesn't stop when you finish school; that's when it starts. I don't know what we can do to impress that on kids but I see a lot of that.

 

[Ndaccountant]

This, definitely. "Everybody gets a trophy" is no big deal. Having been raised in that environment, I can promise you that when you get a trophy, and you see that everyone else got the same trophy, you don't care. It literally has no effect on you at all. You do not think for one second, "Wow, I must be good because I got a trophy." You are not satisfied with the same trophy that everybody got. You only think that you are good when you WIN, and you aren't satisfied till you get the big trophy that the WINNERS get. That was true of prior generations and its true now, regardless of how many trophies people give out now because they are trying to be nice. So I hate hearing about how "everybody gets a trophy." That just doesn't matter. The trophy just commemorates the season; kids are not so dumb that they think it means they did well. Participation "awards" are not awards, and kids realize that.

But that's not necessarily to say that there's nothing wrong with the way we raise kids. I'm not sure whether this is just a current problem or something that's been a problem for every generation, but I do see a lot of this:



I see a lot of kids who graduate from college without realizing how hard you have to work just to get opportunities. They think they can just apply for this or that job and of course they'll be selected because they were officers of the College Such-and-such Club or whatever. Well, everyone has those credentials. No one's just going to give you anything. The hard work doesn't stop when you finish school; that's when it starts. I don't know what we can do to impress that on kids but I see a lot of that.

I think it has more to do with the fact that superior performance is not rewarded. I think self-esteem is critical and we should make sure we foster it accordingly. However, we also need to make sure we reward performance, both individual and team. I personally see that as the problem in the whole "trophey" discussion.

 

[Southside Sully]

100% yes we are.. Stop giving kids participation trophies, or giving coaches a hard time for having your kid ride the pine. Fact of the matter is kids need to learn how to lose, learn how to hear no, and get up and throw some mud on it. I do this all the time with my nephew and so does my brother. He whines, but he does not get his way. They are up for a huge disappointment in life if they are always getting there way! #southside

 

[WaveDomer]

I think a major issue today is that people seem to lack real meaning in their lives. Ask 50 people what they want their life to look like and you will probably get a bunch of vague answers and a bunch of shrugs. We are also twisted into thinking things that just fill some superficial need are really important. Sex is often used as a substitute for success, as an example. Or toys and money do the same. We've totally lost the "pursuit of happiness" in this society, thinking that happiness means pleasure and not virtue. When that happens, our egos grow larger than our commitments. So everything is about ego.

Many people's lives revolve around filler that brings brief joy but doesn't do anything to build your character. So now we feel the need to prop people up.

And I'm not a great example of this either. It's a constant fight because we are bombarded every single day with messages that our lives will be better if we fill them with meaningless crap. And downtime is great, we all need it, but we need real purpose too.

 

[WestCoast]

Ha ha. Speaking of analyzing yourself. NDAct, I hate to break this to you but, you um... are uh... wearing pink bunny fitted pjs. You look like a pink nightmare. just sayin'

 

[Mr. Larson]

I think a major issue today is that people seem to lack real meaning in their lives. Ask 50 people what they want their life to look like and you will probably get a bunch of vague answers and a bunch of shrugs. We are also twisted into thinking things that just fill some superficial need are really important. Sex is often used as a substitute for success, as an example. Or toys and money do the same. We've totally lost the "pursuit of happiness" in this society, thinking that happiness means pleasure and not virtue. When that happens, our egos grow larger than our commitments. So everything is about ego.

Many people's lives revolve around filler that brings brief joy but doesn't do anything to build your character. So now we feel the need to prop people up.

And I'm not a great example of this either. It's a constant fight because we are bombarded every single day with messages that our lives will be better if we fill them with meaningless crap. And downtime is great, we all need it, but we need real purpose too.

Is that you, Don?

 

[Irish YJ]

I think it is a matter of perspective. The world certainly isn't perfect, and no generation of teenagers or recent college grads is what you would call "enlightened." But overall, the unwillingness of society to accept racism, sexism, bullying, discrimination, bigotry, etc., is an advancement even though it is sometimes criticized as being too sensitive. As far as the virtues of sacrifice, hard work, etc., I do think we may have lost something there, but I know plenty of younger people who work hard and behave responsibly.

Bolded above. Agree, but I don't think it's relevant to the sissie conversation. Whole different issue.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I think it has more to do with the fact that superior performance is not rewarded. I think self-esteem is critical and we should make sure we foster it accordingly. However, we also need to make sure we reward performance, both individual and team. I personally see that as the problem in the whole "trophey" discussion.

You say that we don't reward performance, but yet what do we hear everytime someone talented gets in trouble or does something to show how socially maladjusted they are? We say that we put talented people on a pedestal from an early age and they develop a sense of entitlement that retards their growth. You hear this especially about athletes, but you hear it in other contexts, too. It can't be both, right? I think the reality is that people are flawed, but we are becoming increasingly aware of just how flawed as our world shrinks and privacy disappears and voyeurism becomes the norm. We have a media culture that assumes everything that happens is everyone's business. Some kid does something dumb 2000 miles away, someone posts a video of it, and now it is your evidence of how screwed up this generation is. Even 10 years ago you'd have never known that it happened.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Bolded above. Agree, but I don't think it's relevant to the sissie conversation. Whole different issue.

It is my sense that when young people are called soft it as at least partially due to their willingness to accept as friends those that are different than them, or their feeling that bullying/hazing is wrong. Maybe that is a misread on my part. I know it isn't the entirety of the issue, but it is at least somewhat relevant.

 

[Ndaccountant]

You say that we don't reward performance, but yet what do we hear everytime someone talented gets in trouble or does something to show how socially maladjusted they are? We say that we put talented people on a pedestal from an early age and they develop a sense of entitlement that retards their growth. You hear this especially about athletes, but you hear it in other contexts, too. It can't be both, right? I think the reality is that people are flawed, but we are becoming increasingly aware of just how flawed as our world shrinks and privacy disappears and voyeurism becomes the norm. We have a media culture that assumes everything that happens is everyone's business. Some kid does something dumb 2000 miles away, someone posts a video of it, and now it is your evidence of how screwed up this generation is. Even 10 years ago you'd have never known that it happened.

There is a huge difference between rewarding performance and fostering a prima donna.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Ha ha. Speaking of analyzing yourself. NDAct, I hate to break this to you but, you um... are uh... wearing pink bunny fitted pjs. You look like a pink nightmare. just sayin'

LOL.

I guess it was time for a change, since xmas is over and all.

 

[Cackalacky]

I went to college on student loans the 1st time around and got a 0.8 GPA 1st semester. Dad warned me to do better or I would be coming home. Got a 1.1 GPA 2nd semester. Went home for the summer and my dad put me to work on the floor of the factory he worked at. I stood at a terminal and pushed a button 2188 times a day for $17.00/hour for 11-15 hours per day. I know that because that is how many units we made each day.

Every day my dad asked me how I liked it. Every day I told him it was fine and I was making lots of money so I was happy. I was really saving the money because I had no time to spend it. My dad signed me up to work holidays and all the overtime the company would allow me (or him) to have and I had no summer break to speak of. But near the end of the summer I was exhausted fro mworkin all those hours and never really got to enjoy all that money I made. My dad then sat down with me and we did a budget of what my life would be like working like this all the time to include rent (mortgage), food, insurance blah blah and what would be left over for savings and retirement, kids, wife, cars. All my money magically went away leaving me with very little disposable income.

He then asked me to choose.... this life or going back to school in hopes of earning a degree that would give me an opportunity for a higher paying job with benefits, retirement options etc.

Needless to say, I chose to go back to school and do better but not without understanding my other choices first thanks to my dad. I learned a lot that summer about college, working in a factory, but most of all about who I was inside and who my dad was. My dad was always a teacher first.... Which is what I plan to be.

As an aside, I also grew up in the everyone gets a trophy era and it is bullshit. I never once felt better or less than anyone else.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

My first year coaching baseball, I had 15 kids try out, and about 4 of them simply were not that good.

Thinking I'd be Mr. Nice Guy, I told the kids (who were 14, so old enough to understand) "I won't be making any cuts, but some of you have to realize you will barely play, if you even do get to play. We are at a level now where winning is more important than personal feelings, so if you can accept that, you can stay."

They all stayed. Things were fine until the 2nd inning of the first game, when the benchwarmers were already pestering me to get into the game. I didnt put any in.

By game 3 or 4 I had moms calling and even harassing me at the field because their kid wasn't playing.

*To make the long story short(er), I have cut kids left and right ever since then, and still do. They are better for it, and one even worked his butt off that year on his own, and made the JV Team the next season.

 

[DSully1995]

As far as I know, Americans have always complanied that america isnt what it used to be.

 

[ACamp1900]

Outside of my parents I credit my baseball and football coach, same guy, with helping build the person I am today. He didn't hurt anyone, he wasn't sadistic, and he built a ton of character in his players... but he was TOUGH. He challenged you physically and mentally every single practice. For reference he was my coach for both from the age of 10 to 15… each year.

He'd also could very easily be arrested for doing what he did to us with today's kids... and this is only 20 or so years ago.

I see that as a net loss for this generation. Just my two cents.

 

[Cackalacky]

LOL.

I guess it was time for a change, since xmas is over and all.

Not much of an improvement. You still look like a pink nightmare. Or is that fucia...

 

[Irish YJ]

It is my sense that when young people are called soft it as at least partially due to their willingness to accept as friends those that are different than them, or their feeling that bullying/hazing is wrong. Maybe that is a misread on my part. I know it isn't the entirety of the issue, but it is at least somewhat relevant.

I don't deem that soft (bolded). I see that as strong. I think what we are talking about here is more about the lack of work ethic, fortitude, toughness, and desire to be self sufficient (not relying on mommy/daddy and the governement). Honestly I blame the government for making it easy for people to fail, and parents for their lack of involvement and reliance on the school system and government.

I think Bob Knight had a quote that went something like this....

It used to be, when a kid got in trouble at school, the parents asked "what did my kid do".
Now, it's "what did you do to my kid".

 

[Ndaccountant]

Not much of an improvement. You still look like a pink nightmare. Or is that fucia...

It is Red, and the god Zardoz does not approve your post!!

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

I don't deem that soft (bolded). I see that as strong. I think what we are talking about here is more about the lack of work ethic, fortitude, toughness, and desire to be self sufficient (not relying on mommy/daddy and the governement). Honestly I blame the government for making it easy for people to fail, and parents for their lack of involvement and reliance on the school system and government.

I think Bob Knight had a quote that went something like this....

It used to be, when a kid got in trouble at school, the parents asked "what did my kid do".
Now, it's "what did you do to my kid".

i'm not sure that the gov't makes it easy to fail. you realize that the lives of people on welfare are not all that enjoyable (assuming that's what you were referring to).

 

[pumpdog20]

I don't think the "everyone gets a trophy" at the younger ages is a bad deal at all. I think it helps the kids stay excited, and I'm sure it also helps against over-burden dads/ultra-competitive coaches from putting too much pressure and eventually making kids want to quit.

I do agree that at a certain age (middle school), parents (as well as the kid of course) need to be able to transition to the competitive nature of not only sports, but the world in general.

 

[WestCoast]

As far as I know, Americans have always complanied that america isnt what it used to be.

Watch it Pasquinel. This is a domestic discussion. Now stand back so this discussion can fix the US.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Some skepticism of this argument is warranted. Every generation has been the "Me" generation. The old have always complained about the young, and will likely continue to do so until the end of time.

That said, I can't help but feel like there's some merit to the argument, also. Neoliberalism started hollowing out our communities and undermining civil society long ago. What we're left with is a bunch of isolated individuals indulging in shallow consumerism.

Many of the examples of "what we've lost" in this thread have involved team sports, which is no coincidence. A successful team requires hard work, sacrifice, and putting the group before one's self. Those values are incomprehensible in a greed-drive consumerist culture.

So now people go the work in the morning already looking forward to instagramming their lunch and sharing it on Facebook (expressive consumerism at its finest). Starting a family is no longer a vocation, but merely one lifestyle choice among many. And the kids grow up to be just like their parents.

 

[Cackalacky]

It is Red, and the god Zardoz does not approve your post!!

The gun is good. The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was, but the gun shoots death, and purifies the Earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth ... and kill!

 

[Wild Bill]

Adam Carolla Rant About the Occupy Mentality.flv - YouTube

I think Adam Corolla agrees with you.

 

[Irish YJ]

i'm not sure that the gov't makes it easy to fail. you realize that the lives of people on welfare are not all that enjoyable (assuming that's what you were referring to).

About me... I grew up poor, in a single parent household. Very comfortable now due to the way I was raised. I volunteer and donate to an organization that helps train the poor and refugees with job skills, resume building, interviewing skills, etc..

That said... growing up I saw first hand that some people were perfectly satisfied living off the goverment's tit. Fast forward 30 years (I'm 43 now), there are a lot more, as it's gotten easier. I'm not some person sitting on high guessing. I've been there (poor) as a child, and I go back there to help those that want to help themselves. Unfortunately there are a lot more that aren't interested in helping themselves. I also find it very sad that refugees who come here with nothing to thier name, are more interested in being productive citizens than some Americans.

And to be clear, nobody is saying welfare is enjoyable. But to some, it's easier than going out and working your tail off to improve your situation.

 

[Cackalacky]

Some skepticism of this argument is warranted. Every generation has been the "Me" generation. The old have always complained about the young, and will likely continue to do so until the end of time.

That said, I can't help but feel like there's some merit to the argument, also. Neoliberalism started hollowing out our communities and undermining civil society long ago. What we're left with is a bunch of isolated individuals indulging in shallow consumerism.

Many of the examples of "what we've lost" in this thread have involved team sports, which is no coincidence. A successful team requires hard work, sacrifice, and putting the group before one's self. Those values are incomprehensible in a greed-drive consumerist culture.

So now people go the work in the morning already looking forward to instagramming their lunch and sharing it on Facebook (expressive consumerism at its finest). Starting a family is no longer a vocation, but merely one lifestyle choice among many. And the kids grow up to be just like their parents.

WOMAN: Who are the Britons?
ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.
WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous
collective.
DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.
A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--
ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives
in that castle?
WOMAN: No one live there.
ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take
it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.