'14 OH OL Jimmy Byrne (Notre Dame Signee)

[Whiskeyjack]

Furthermore, his 247 Composite Score puts him as a borderline mid 4. He's got good size for an interior OL, jumped in early, and has been an active recruiter for the '14 class. In short, he's everything one would hope for from an early OL commit (Steve Elmer's don't come along very often).

But since you bring it up, yes, it is my opinion that Byrne is going to have a tough time at ND. Can I have my opinion or do I have to love every commit and be convinced they're going to be solid players? Lol.

Of course you can. But baseless negativity is annoying to read. If you're not high on Byrne, that's fine. But you need to be able to substantiate that skepticism if you're going to keep bringing it up around here.

 

[Luckylucci]

The amount of time Hiestand spent with this kid he must LOVE him and thats all I need to know. You have a right to your opinion but part of my opinion will always be based on what the staff thinks and they wanted him.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

The amount of time Hiestand spent with this kid he must LOVE him and thats all I need to know. You have a right to your opinion but part of my opinion will always be based on what the staff thinks and they wanted him.

This with Mikes, and Whiskey's are enough intelligence for me.

 

[koonja]

The amount of time Hiestand spent with this kid he must LOVE him and thats all I need to know. You have a right to your opinion but part of my opinion will always be based on what the staff thinks and they wanted him.

Yes, the staff wants him. I cannot argue that, obviously. But let's not think the staff bats 1000% on commits, either. No staff does. They take chances and not every recruit or OL for that matter, and not all are 'wanted the same'. This provides an incentive for recruits who aren't as high on the list to commit early.

Whiskey, if you want to know, my opinion is based on this:

1) That picture. Simply put, I know junior/senior, D3 OL that are run of the mill starters and even a back up that look incredible more 'physically gifted' than that. He carries a lot of fat IMO, couple that with a thin frame (talking shoulder width here), and I think it's going to be tough for him to get to the shape he needs to be in to block DL and LBs from Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Michigan, Alabama, etc.

2) His offer list isn't great. Yes, he has an OSU offer, but other than ours, nothing really stands out. I wonder how bad OSU really wanted him, but that's pointless to speculate.

3) That video. He went against two guys who hold an offer a piece, and he was outmatched both times. Again, it's a disadvantage for the OL, but a ND-type OL should be able to hold his own against two unranked players IMO.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yes, the staff wants him. I cannot argue that, obviously. But let's not think the staff bats 1000% on commits, either. No staff does. They take chances and not every recruit or OL for that matter, and not all are 'wanted the same'. This benefits players who commit early.

That's true. Last cycle we signed arguably the best OL class in the nation, and even among those guys, 1-2 likely won't pan out. Byrne may end up being one such in this class, but we simply don't have much reliable data to make that kind of prediction right now. And if Byrne ends up being the lowest rated OL in this class, we're gonna be in awesome shape either way.

Whiskey, if you want to know, my opinion is based on this:

First, thank you! This is a worthwhile contribution. Substantiating your skepticism gives us all an opportunity to learn something.

1) That picture. Simply put, I know junior/senior, D3 OL that are run of the mill starters and even a back up that look incredible more 'physically gifted' than that. He carries a lot of fat IMO, couple that with a thin frame (talking shoulder width here), and I think it's going to be tough for him to get to the shape he needs to be in to block DL and LBs from Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Michigan, Alabama, etc.

I'll grant it's not a flattering photo, but it's just one picture. He's also standing next to a very imposing guy in Jay Hayes who happens to be standing on his tip toes. Check his pics on Twitter; he looks like a hoss from most angles.

2) His offer list isn't great. Yes, he has an OSU offer, but other than ours, nothing really stands out. I wonder how bad OSU really wanted him, but that's pointless to speculate.

That's a strong regional offer list, particularly for a guy who committed so early in the process.

3) That video. He went against two guys who hold an offer a piece, and he was outmatched both times. Again, it's a disadvantage for the OL, but a ND-type OL should be able to hold his own against two unranked players IMO.

As OMM pointed out on the previous page, Byrne didn't clearly lose all those reps. And in any case, we simply can't glean much from these types of videos. It's a tiny sample size of reps in a drill where OL are at a distinct disadvantage. So don't get down on Byrne, but also temper your excitement when you see videos of Hayes beasting OL 1 v 1.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Yes, the staff wants him. I cannot argue that, obviously. But let's not think the staff bats 1000% on commits, either. No staff does. They take chances and not every recruit or OL for that matter, and not all are 'wanted the same'. This provides an incentive for recruits who aren't as high on the list to commit early.

Whiskey, if you want to know, my opinion is based on this:

1) That picture. Simply put, I know junior/senior, D3 OL that are run of the mill starters and even a back up that look incredible more 'physically gifted' than that. He carries a lot of fat IMO, couple that with a thin frame (talking shoulder width here), and I think it's going to be tough for him to get to the shape he needs to be in to block DL and LBs from Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Michigan, Alabama, etc.

2) His offer list isn't great. Yes, he has an OSU offer, but other than ours, nothing really stands out. I wonder how bad OSU really wanted him, but that's pointless to speculate.

3) That video. He went against two guys who hold an offer a piece, and he was outmatched both times. Again, it's a disadvantage for the OL, but a ND-type OL should be able to hold his own against two unranked players IMO.

 

[IrishLax]

His 'offer list' isn't great because he committed VERY early and teams knew they couldn't compete with OSU/ND on this one. You see this time and time again. Do you think Manti Te'o wasn't good enough to earn offers from east coast teams? No, but they knew they couldn't land him as he expressed zero interest.

Also, for uncommitted prospects offer lists are often exaggerated to include schools that aren't actively recruiting them and for early commits a lot of times they won't lists offers they have gotten.

 

[GBdomer]

He was Urban's first offer out to an O Lineman when he got to Ohio State. Say's it all for me, it's not like Urban knows what he is talking about when it comes to recruiting.

 

[Wild Bill]

I agree, kuehnja, he looks a little soft in the pic. And that's what makes it difficult to recruit the big guys out of high school. Elite skill position players generally develop early, i.e., Greg Bryant. While most of offensive lineman, even elite offensive lineman, develop their physique at the collegiate level, i.e., Eric Fisher. Obviously, from 18-22 they experience increased testosterone levels(the natural stuff, not the SEC stuff) and they benefit from proper nutrition and strength programs, but I think it's more. I think the big guys get a chance to grow into their bodies. Some of these guys get to high school at less than six feet tall. By their Junior year, they are 6'5'' plus. It's really hard to mold a body while it's growing at that pace.

 

[GBdomer]

Jimmy Bryne won't be playing football at Notre Dame for another 2-3 years so all of this talk about bad weight right now is totally irrelevant.

 

[NDdomer2]

Jimmy Bryne won't be playing football at Notre Dame for another 2-3 years so all of this talk about bad weight right now is totally irrelevant.

 

[koonja]

That's true. Last cycle we signed arguably the best OL class in the nation, and even among those guys, 1-2 likely won't pan out. Byrne may end up being one such in this class, but we simply don't have much reliable data to make that kind of prediction right now. And if Byrne ends up being the lowest rated OL in this class, we're gonna be in awesome shape either way.



First, thank you! This is a worthwhile contribution. Substantiating your skepticism gives us all an opportunity to learn something.



I'll grant it's not a flattering photo, but it's just one picture. He's also standing next to a very imposing guy in Jay Hayes who happens to be standing on his tip toes. Check his pics on Twitter; he looks like a hoss from most angles.



That's a strong regional offer list, particularly for a guy who committed so early in the process.



As OMM pointed out on the previous page, Byrne didn't clearly lose all those reps. And in any case, we simply can't glean much from these types of videos. It's a tiny sample size of reps in a drill where OL are at a distinct disadvantage. So don't get down on Byrne, but also temper your excitement when you see videos of Hayes beasting OL 1 v 1.

1) Agreed and agreed. I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion that Byrne will not be a solid OL, but I'm skeptical to say the least at this point. And yes, I'm basing this on very little information, but IMO the info we have make me more skeptical than promising.

2) That is fair, Hayes is a big boy, and Byrne is right there with him in height. But it's the lack of shoulder width and the body fat that worries me (GITF, that pic is hilarious, touche). Creep on a prospects photos? You talked me into it, lol.

3) I understand that, but they have these drills for a reason, and it's not like it's impossible for an OL to compete. Being the Byrne was going against two unranked guys with only an offer, I expected him to handle his own.

I do disagree that he didn't get beat badly. Those guys were past him within 2 seconds each time I thought, but I'll re watch.

I understand I may end up being wrong, but I remain skeptical. Regardless, I will keep my Bryne comments to myself, unless they become positive.

 

[Pachuco]

We get hyped when our recruits beast in these 2 second clips, and then grumble when they don't pan out. We really don't know til they get that gold helmet on. All I know is that anyone who chooses ND over OSU is a friend of mine. Kid's already got smarts more than most.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I understand I may end up being wrong, but I remain skeptical. Regardless, I will keep my Bryne comments to myself, unless they become positive.

Don't do that either. Just skip the unsubstantiated negativity and jump right into the analysis.

Your previous post was great. We need more of that around here.

 

[BurningRiver]

All this talk is ridiculously weird to me because I see him at school every day

 

[peoriairish]

redhotbuffs.com eh? Someone just got busted...

 

[Old Man Mike]

Foundationally, since our staff is not composed of idiots, and since many of our own football IQs are single digit compared to theirs, any remarks about whether someone that they are recruiting { NOW THAT WE ARE NO LONGER IN DESPERATION MODE ON THE ROSTER} does not have a high potential for meaningful playing at Notre Dame sounds pretty arrogant.

When we are concerned about something of this nature, why not, with some obvious humility, simply ask our IE brothers questions? Example: do you guys think that Jimmy has the necessary body type to get ready for early play? What a lessened heat-content discussion starter THAT would have been --- AND some of our guys might have had some actual FACTS {horrors} to enlighten us with.

On the drill: the coaches aren't expecting the OLineman to "win" that drill. They are employing the drill because it allows them to make their best judgements on at least three super important qualities of an OLineman, difficult to judge any other way:
1]. initial punch with balance;
2]. foot "cleverness" and re-balance;
3]. toughness while being hit in the face. {repetitively}.

Those drill coaches will be able to judge these things over the course of many reps. Some of that is trainable, some is just who you are. I'd much rather go with an expert lineman judge who watched a bunch of those reps.

..... oh, wait! OUR coaches have done that already.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Rule #1: Mike is always right.
Rule #2: If Mike is wrong, see rule #1 (and go ahead and do 20 push ups while we're here).

 

[koonja]

Foundationally, since our staff is not composed of idiots, and since many of our own football IQs are single digit compared to theirs, any remarks about whether someone that they are recruiting { NOW THAT WE ARE NO LONGER IN DESPERATION MODE ON THE ROSTER} does not have a high potential for meaningful playing at Notre Dame sounds pretty arrogant.

When we are concerned about something of this nature, why not, with some obvious humility, simply ask our IE brothers questions? Example: do you guys think that Jimmy has the necessary body type to get ready for early play? What a lessened heat-content discussion starter THAT would have been --- AND some of our guys might have had some actual FACTS {horrors} to enlighten us with.

On the drill: the coaches aren't expecting the OLineman to "win" that drill. They are employing the drill because it allows them to make their best judgements on at least three super important qualities of an OLineman, difficult to judge any other way:
1]. initial punch with balance;
2]. foot "cleverness" and re-balance;
3]. toughness while being hit in the face. {repetitively}.

Those drill coaches will be able to judge these things over the course of many reps. Some of that is trainable, some is just who you are. I'd much rather go with an expert lineman judge who watched a bunch of those reps.

..... oh, wait! OUR coaches have done that already.

I don't think that's true. We have 18-ish lineman on the roster at one time. To expect every single one of them to have 'meaningful' reps while at ND is unlikely, assuming the vague meaning of 'meaningful reps' is starting for at least a year. I simply am skeptical of Byrne being a contributor based on the quality of the OL ND is bringing in lately.

As is with most of our commits, the general IE consensus is/will be that said-player can absolutely be a 'solid player' since they got an offer. I don't see the point of asking it as a question when I'm obviously in the minority (aka I know the answer to the question), so I offered my OPINION. Having said that, I respect your perspective on posting style so I will keep that in mind on sensitive subjects.

Actual facts? If you were following the debate (if we can call it that), we're not talking facts at all. It was all subjective. It was clear that my points were: frame, physique, and the quality of Byrne during the drill. Hardly measurable and definitely cannot be equated to 'facts'.

 

[rtrn2glory]

how much bad weight did/does lou hold his jr year in high school? I think he turned out ok.

like GB said the dudes got time and he shouldn't be needed to play right away

 

[rtrn2glory]

RCS Pittsburgh: Best of OL vs DL - Rivals.com Video

not sure if this is what golden posted a page ago, but here's highlights from the whole rivals challenge in Pittsburgh...looked to be pretty wet there too

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I don't think that's true. We have 18-ish lineman on the roster at one time. To expect every single one of them to have 'meaningful' reps while at ND is unlikely, assuming the vague meaning of 'meaningful reps' is starting for at least a year. I simply am skeptical of Byrne being a contributor based on the quality of the OL ND is bringing in lately.

As is with most of our commits, the general IE consensus is/will be that said-player can absolutely be a 'solid player' since they got an offer. I don't see the point of asking it as a question when I'm obviously in the minority (aka I know the answer to the question), so I offered my OPINION. Having said that, I respect your perspective on posting style so I will keep that in mind on sensitive subjects.

Actual facts? If you were following the debate (if we can call it that), we're not talking facts at all. It was all subjective. It was clear that my points were: frame, physique, and the quality of Byrne during the drill. Hardly measurable and definitely cannot be equated to 'facts'.

K-buddy. You know how much I love you. And I understand people have been grilling you. But bubbie-kins. One fellow poster; OldManMike. And one subject; offensive line play. Don't mess with the bambino. With that combination, no one on this site can hold a candle. Mike has a decided intellectual advantage over all of us.

Seriously. You made a comment earlier about this staff and how it cannot be 1000%. I hope I got the right number of zeroes. This staff is way ahead of this. I don't believe they have gotten less than a role player. They have turned nonproductive players into contributors, and they have landed stars, all the while pulling in under the radar players that are producing off the charts; from Danny Spond to Corey Robinson. Be honest. Have you ever seen anything like it?

Finally, these coaches know exactly what they want. I thought for sure Sheldon Day was a mistake (at the USC '11 Pep rally) because he was short. Then Elston (another genius) explained what went into selecting him. I for one will take the staffs word every time. This isn't green Kool Aid, Four-way windowpane, optimism, or any other such shiit. This is track record.

 

[Riddickulous]

You better Mustipher all your courage, because you're gonna get get Byrned, and in the rare event you get behind Bars, you'll more than likely end up under the Hood.

- Terrible puns I would love to beat to death sometime in the future

 

[ResLife Hero]

Just looked through the picture on 247 of Nelson at camps, and that guy is built completely different than Byrne. That said, Nelson looks a solid 3 years older than Byrne, and if Jimmy is already at a 4-star level, I believe there's nothing but massive improvement in his future. He may be more of a project than some of the other OL we're pursuing, but with last years class, we can afford a project or two.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'll give this thread one more try and then lapse into silence. This is what I believe that I know about Jimmy Byrne:

1]. Personal qualities: VERY intelligent, well-spoken young man. Irish Catholic going to a Catholic HS. Very thoughtful about his future and his athletic career. Humble, yet driven to maximize his abilities and contribute to WINS --- he wants his teams to win championships.

2]. Views on his Notre Dame football career:

"I knew when I gave my verbal, and even my parents had mentioned also that Notre Dame had signed 5 offensive linemen this year. I just don’t think competition is something to run away from, and it will be good for me to be pushed even harder and further. There were schools that I probably could have gone to that I would possibly been playing and starting by my Sophomore year, but I do not believe that that is the best way to go about making your decision."

" Right now the strongest aspect of my game is pass protection, as we have a very good offensive line coach that has really helped me develop that part of my game, and so I feel like I am pretty solid there. The biggest thing I feel I need to work on and am really paying attention to, is getting leverage and finishing my blocks in the run game. I am getting some leverage, and am moving kids, but I have had trouble just finishing the block over the last couple of years, so that is going to be a huge emphasis this year. Going into this year I need to be getting bigger, stronger, and faster, and just learn how to consistently play through the whistle on every play”.

3]. Recruiting history:

Urban Meyer made him his first Ohio offer and assigned Ed Warriner to bulldog the recruitment. They were targeting 9 Olinemen [ list included Mustipher and Jamarco Jones]. They REALLY WANTED Jimmy Byrne. And for a while he wanted them. But three things changed that [plus the simple fact that he and his parents are thoughtful people]: a). he was impressed by a visit at Michigan; b). he was even more impressed at a visit at Notre Dame; c). he was REALLY impressed by Harry Hiestand.

Jimmy then said to the press that "his decision will come down to tOSU or ND, and specifically down to the coaching staff". At OSU both Urban and Warriner told him that they were particularly impressed with his pass-protecting footwork. Ohio State fanbase was delirious during the early news about Byrne being a lifetime OSU fan, and was touting him as one of their most important recruits. As the Michigan and Notre Dame incursions increased, there was a noticeable depression which set in, and there was no [to my knowledge] "sour grapes" commentary about Byrne going to ND; they simply were admitting that they'd missed on a good one.

4]. athletic ability et al:

Byrne is currently 6'4" and 285-290. And not yet starting his senior year. Other than winning all his games, he is entering the year focussed on a need to increase his strength [more on that in a moment] and certain blocking techniques, as you have read. We have great reason to believe that such a focussed player will jump in his ability. Byrne runs a 5.1 forty, which is fine for a lineman. As he develops lower body strength, this will get better as well.

As to strength: Because Jimmy is a guy with a soft babyface, some folks think that he is not a stud. This is a simplistic error to say the least. Byrne benches 305 or better. For comparisons, Jamarco Jones benches 265 and weightroom warrior Sam Mustipher a powerful 350. The statistics for college D1 Olinemen indicate that Jones' number is below average, Byrne's is average [note: ALREADY at average at end of junior year of HS], and Mustipher is "very good". Notre Dame would like him to have a little more "punch" but he is aware of that going into his senior year.

Byrne's squat is "only" 400. That translates into an average college D1 Olineman's squat. Jones is better at 425 ="good". Mustipher's is not known by me. This squat number makes sense. Jimmy needs the explosion that the squat exercises will give him. That explosion may help not only his run-block first hit and continued drive finish, but if he does plenty of them will aid core body development, the related "body quickness" of which is what he needs the most.

In my estimation, Jimmy Byrne is a strong soon-to-be senior highschooler who knows pretty much exactly what he wants and needs to do. His bench and squat are already at average college lineman levels. ESPN had him on its lineman Watchlist, before he committed to Notre Dame, and their OSU-connected "scout/writers" turned their attention away. Urban Meyer had him as a priority. What's not to like about this?


As an aside: Jimmy said that the choice came down to coaches --- HAH!!! One more reason to give Harry a raise.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Why is it people get so wrapped up with the look? I mean I know the social kind of thing; all I can think of is too much TV and movies, and too little experience.

When I was a kid some of the biggest terrors in the jungle had the most rolley-polley baby faced looks. These guys looked like the local donut shop resident maybe, but they could go all day through triple canopy with full pack, and a squad rated two-man weapon, all by themselves.

Do any of you remember Anthony Muñoz, Orlando Pace, or Corey Stringer? How about this last year's Bama line. Don't tell me you think all of them were Greek gods!

 

[Luckylucci]

K-buddy. You know how much I love you. And I understand people have been grilling you. But bubbie-kins. One fellow poster; OldManMike. And one subject; offensive line play. Don't mess with the bambino. With that combination, no one on this site can hold a candle. Mike has a decided intellectual advantage over all of us.

Seriously. You made a comment earlier about this staff and how it cannot be 1000%. I hope I got the right number of zeroes. This staff is way ahead of this. I don't believe they have gotten less than a role player. They have turned nonproductive players into contributors, and they have landed stars, all the while pulling in under the radar players that are producing off the charts; from Danny Spond to Corey Robinson. Be honest. Have you ever seen anything like it?

Finally, these coaches know exactly what they want. I thought for sure Sheldon Day was a mistake (at the USC '11 Pep rally) because he was short. Then Elston (another genius) explained what went into selecting him. I for one will take the staffs word every time. This isn't green Kool Aid, Four-way windowpane, optimism, or any other such shiit. This is track record.

Very good post. Every time I have questioned the staff i get proven wrong. That doesn't mean we'll win every game but it does mean that the thought they put into far exceeds my understanding of it.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Very good post. Every time I have questioned the staff i get proven wrong. That doesn't mean we'll win every game but it does mean that the thought they put into far exceeds my understanding of it.

Very good post, LOL!

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I don't think that's true. We have 18-ish lineman on the roster at one time. To expect every single one of them to have 'meaningful' reps while at ND is unlikely, assuming the vague meaning of 'meaningful reps' is starting for at least a year...

Yup. You only get 5 on the field at one time...The 6th best lineman on the team could be an absolutely outstanding player, but he's still not a starter. I'd say it's a good problem to have.

 

[aubeirish]

OMM nailed it.