'13 TX RB Jamel James (Texas State Verbal)

[irishpat183]

Love to have him...Really would, but he's not a "must have"...just look at his numbers.

May not even be the best back on his team...


But I feel for the kid if it is a grades issue.

 

[Emcee77]

Tough spot for us as well. When a committed recruit starts taking visits, the staff no longer guarantees his spot in the class because they can't afford to get left holding the bag (like last year).

This situation is similar. Grades and visits are both entirely within the control of the recruit (though grades are cumulative, so they may be difficult to change at this point). Once it becomes clear that a commit might not get past admissions, what should the staff do?

Didn't mean to suggest that Jamel is being treated unfairly. Obviously we have to protect ourselves as well, and if he doesn't have the grades he doesn't have the grades.

Just saying its unenviable to be in a spot where you have to decide whether to risk decreasing your chance of attending your dream school (by taking visits elswhere, because we might give his spot away to Greg Bryant or someone else) in order to guarantee that you'll have a spot at a backup school. Tough decision to make. If he goes all out for ND, he might be risking having to go the community college route for a year, if other interested schools fill up while he is waiting to hear from admissions.

 

[mgriff]

Since we don't overrecruit or greyshirt, we absolutely have to implement some sort of insurance policy, and this is it. It's unfortunate for the young man, but he needs to cover his butt with more visits, and we need to cover ours. I hope he can get in because I love a big back like this, but it is what it is.

 

[Emcee77]

Since we don't overrecruit or greyshirt, we absolutely have to implement some sort of insurance policy, and this is it. It's unfortunate for the young man, but he needs to cover his butt with more visits, and we need to cover ours. I hope he can get in because I love a big back like this, but it is what it is.

Yep, that says it all. Well put.

 

[BGIF]

I just wonder when he's going to get the word from admissions.

Is he lacking on HIS GPA, HIS Test Score, or HIS Required Core Courses? Whatever the problem, Admissions needs to see an updated transcript or confirmed test score. When does HIS semester end and how soon does HIS HS get the info processed. HS staffs get Christmas breaks too.

If he's been told he needs a Spanish class or raise a "D" in math, is he doing so? Is he on track? Whatever the issue the coaching staff is aware of it at this point. It's still Admissions call and apparently they established what needs to be achieved.

What if he passes up opportunities to visit other schools to retain his spot in our class, then gets rejected by admissions, then find out that the other schools he was in contact with are full? Quite the dilemma.

From TV it sounds like he won't risk getting left out in the cold and will go ahead and take visits to other schools. "Good chance" he doesn't end up Irish.

Every year it seems there is one or more on the cusp. Back in the Hotlz days when Rooney was running admissions it was a lot tougher. An ND coach could not make an offer until Admissions said yes so many kids that were close chose elsewhere rather then wait for ND Admissions approval. ND used to be one of a handful of schools that required 16 cores courses when the NCAA only required 12. This delayed ND Admissions review procedure as they needed another semester of grades. Over the past few years the NCAA has raised their requirements catching up with the ND's and VU's. More recruits are now on track but still how many have the math and language courses ND requires? Remember the kid last year that claimed he was taking an online language course to get in ND? Several of the recruits that chose at the last minute to go elsewhere are actually ND academic non-qualifiers. Alalabama, Tennessee, or maybe a Houston will tell them to go to summer school and if that doesn't work, JUCO. They'll tell the kid, "Yes", and then not admit him later. How's that for a dilemma?

Carson Palmer was told would be approved if he did more work. He refused and chose USC which didn't require improvement. David Terrell verballed to ND but he refused to retake his SAT to improve his score as Michigan and others didn't set that requirement. Aldo de la Garza worked his butt off but never made it past ND Admissions to follow his dream. He ended up at A&M. Unlike Palmer, Terrell, and many others, de la Garza made the effort but came up short.

Paddy Mullen was told his 2.2 GPA wasn't adequate and had to be raised. He made the effort, met Admissions requirements, and earned an ND scholarship. Paddy Mullen took control of his life.

Sports fans complain that's arbitrary. Admissions believes it shows commitment by the high school student to academics, particularly where their HS academic record has shown a lack of achievement. A commitment which is needed at ND because unlike Michigan, USC, Auburn, and others, ND expects student athletes to not only stay eligible but graduate ... on time with a meaningful degree and without a "cake" degree program to hide them in for 4 or 5 years.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

BTW, for those that were complaining about 247 waiting so long to mark him as a commit, this is why. Before the staff would accept his commitmment they had to put an academic road map in place so that he had a path to gain acceptance into ND. To this point it looks like he might have got a flat tire or took a wrong turn...

 

[IrishLax]

Is he lacking on HIS GPA, HIS Test Score, or HIS Required Core Courses? Whatever the problem, Admissions needs to see an updated transcript or confirmed test score. When does HIS semester end and how soon does HIS HS get the info processed. HS staffs get Christmas breaks too.

If he's been told he needs a Spanish class or raise a "D" in math, is he doing so? Is he on track? Whatever the issue the coaching staff is aware of it at this point. It's still Admissions call and apparently they established what needs to be achieved.





Every year it seems there is one or more on the cusp. Back in the Hotlz days when Rooney was running admissions it was a lot tougher. An ND coach could not make an offer until Admissions said yes so many kids that were close chose elsewhere rather then wait for ND Admissions approval. ND used to be one of a handful of schools that required 16 cores courses when the NCAA only required 12. This delayed ND Admissions review procedure as they needed another semester of grades. Over the past few years the NCAA has raised their requirements catching up with the ND's and VU's. More recruits are now on track but still how many have the math and language courses ND requires? Remember the kid last year that claimed he was taking an online language course to get in ND? Several of the recruits that chose at the last minute to go elsewhere are actually ND academic non-qualifiers. Alalabama, Tennessee, or maybe a Houston will tell them to go to summer school and if that doesn't work, JUCO. They'll tell the kid, "Yes", and then not admit him later. How's that for a dilemma?

Carson Palmer was told would be approved if he did more work. He refused and chose USC which didn't require improvement. David Terrell verballed to ND but he refused to retake his SAT to improve his score as Michigan and others didn't set that requirement. Aldo de la Garza worked his butt off but never made it past ND Admissions to follow his dream. He ended up at A&M. Unlike Palmer, Terrell, and many others, de la Garza made the effort but came up short.

Paddy Mullen was told his 2.2 GPA wasn't adequate and had to be raised. He made the effort, met Admissions requirements, and earned an ND scholarship. Paddy Mullen took control of his life.

Sports fans complain that's arbitrary. Admissions believes it shows commitment by the high school student to academics, particularly where their HS academic record has shown a lack of achievement. A commitment which is needed at ND because unlike Michigan, USC, Auburn, and others, ND expects student athletes to not only stay eligible but graduate ... on time with a meaningful degree and without a "cake" degree program to hide them in for 4 or 5 years.

Could not have said it better. It's a double-edged sword... academics attracts players, academics causes us to pass on players (and some very, very good ones at that)... but it is what it is. The truth is that the thresholds set for players are, simply out, attainable with proper attention to academics... and if the prospective student athlete will not or cannot meet those standards then they probably wouldn't make it at ND. ND is not going to offer joke majors like Michigan, commit academic fraud like UNC, run "no show" classes like Auburn, etc. Kids know that when they commit.

I hope it works out for James, but if it doesn't then chances are good he would've transferred out soon after he got on campus anyways. The only thing I ever take issue with is the strict foreign language requirement... because, as an engineer, I think that's utterly pointless if the kid meets all other benchmarks (especially since intro level classes are offered at ND for a myriad of languages and you could mandate someone take them if they don't meet initial language requirements). Maybe I'd feel differently if I was an artsy fartsy person but I just don't... I think it's an unnecessary, artificial barrier.

 

[IrishLax]

BTW, for those that were complaining about 247 waiting so long to mark him as a commit, this is why. Before the staff would accept his commitmment they had to put an academic road map in place so that he had a path to gain acceptance into ND. To this point it looks like he might have got a flat tire or took a wrong turn...

Then I blame the staff. Should've given him a GPS. Maps are completely antiquated and lead to distracted driving.

 

[Emcee77]

Could not have said it better. It's a double-edged sword... academics attracts players, academics causes us to pass on players (and some very, very good ones at that)... but it is what it is. The truth is that the thresholds set for players are, simply out, attainable with proper attention to academics... and if the prospective student athlete will not or cannot meet those standards then they probably wouldn't make it at ND. ND is not going to offer joke majors like Michigan, commit academic fraud like UNC, run "no show" classes like Auburn, etc. Kids know that when they commit.

I hope it works out for James, but if it doesn't then chances are good he would've transferred out soon after he got on campus anyways. The only thing I ever take issue with is the strict foreign language requirement... because, as an engineer, I think that's utterly pointless if the kid meets all other benchmarks (especially since intro level classes are offered at ND for a myriad of languages and you could mandate someone take them if they don't meet initial language requirements). Maybe I'd feel differently if I was an artsy fartsy person but I just don't... I think it's an unnecessary, artificial barrier.

Well, I'm an artsy fartsy person with a "supplementary major" in a foreign language (there was no French minor at ND ... le sigh ... ) but I tend to agree with you. Perhaps the point is that a student's ability to pass foreign language courses, like his ability to pass high-level math courses, says something about his overall intelligence? I'm just guessing; as I sit here today I don't see any compelling justification for the foreign language requirement. Not sure I get why you can't just take it when you get to ND. Plenty of intro courses available, as Lax says.

 

[PANDFAN]

Then I blame the staff. Should've given him a GPS. Maps are completely antiquated and lead to distracted driving.

could of picked one up real cheap on black friday....damn tightwads!!!

 

[BGIF]

Could not have said it better. It's a double-edged sword... academics attracts players, academics causes us to pass on players (and some very, very good ones at that)... but it is what it is. The truth is that the thresholds set for players are, simply out, attainable with proper attention to academics... and if the prospective student athlete will not or cannot meet those standards then they probably wouldn't make it at ND. ND is not going to offer joke majors like Michigan, commit academic fraud like UNC, run "no show" classes like Auburn, etc. Kids know that when they commit.

I hope it works out for James, but if it doesn't then chances are good he would've transferred out soon after he got on campus anyways. The only thing I ever take issue with is the strict foreign language requirement... because, as an engineer, I think that's utterly pointless if the kid meets all other benchmarks (especially since intro level classes are offered at ND for a myriad of languages and you could mandate someone take them if they don't meet initial language requirements). Maybe I'd feel differently if I was an artsy fartsy person but I just don't... I think it's an unnecessary, artificial barrier.

I hear you on the language (BSCE, MSEnE, P.E.) but the artsy fartsy person has a similar gripe about the "unnecessary, artificial" ND math "barrier". But like du Lac, it's a part of ND that you have to deal with if you want the prize.


Matthew 22:14

 

[L-cart ND-ana]

Then I blame the staff. Should've given him a GPS. Maps are completely antiquated and lead to distracted driving.

GPS would violate NCAA rules, maps are acceptbale under the NCAA guidelines in recruiting

 

[BGIF]

Then I blame the staff. Should've given him a GPS. Maps are completely antiquated and lead to distracted driving.

I understand the metaphor but that would be an NCAA violation. They can point the direction but the recruit has to take the necessary "steps".

Are they supposed to do a recruit's homework and take test's for recruit's also?


Holtz was at constant loggerheads with Admissions. He and Cerrato were constantly trying to "sneak" recruits passed Admissions. One tactic was holding back transcripts until the 11th hour trying to run Admission out of time before NSD. The adverserial posturing culminated in Admission's rejections of two LOI's in '95. I had never heard of that happening before or since. It was a Rubicon moment and Admissions barred that crossing. Less than a year later Holtz commented in a press conference that ND was "two players" away from national championship caliber. He didn't mention Admissions but the Administration caught the dig. Admissions wasn't acting alone, they were doing what President Malloy wanted.

Davie as a newby knew the score and so took the opposite tact, "don't make waves". He deferred to Admissions. Willingham was much the same, "whatever they say".

Weis for all his shortcomings, early on sat down with Admissions and established dialogue. He grasped that he needed to understand Admissions decision making process so he could qualify which recruits were academically viable early on so as not to waste limited recruiting resources NOR Admissions time reviewing the unadmittable. Once he understood their process, Weis directed his assistants on what to look for in a recruit's academic record. They particularly looked at HS underclassmen so they could tell them to add courses on a timely basis to qualify rather than crunching first semester senior year to squeeze in several courses. One HS coach in the midwest commented that when Weis came in to his school for May evaluations he asked first for the recruit's transcript. Upon seeing it he didn't mince words in Weis's fashion. He noted the highly talented prospect could not pass the NCAA Clearinghouse requirements unless he took a 180 academically. The coach wasn't happy with Weis's bluntness. Weis did not purse that recruit.

Kelly didn't have an understanding of ND's academic culture when he arrived. It wasn't an issue at GVS or UC. He's learned ND is like other places.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Well I hope it clicks and he does get through admissions. Fingers crossed.

 

[IrishLax]

I understand the metaphor but that would be an NCAA violation. They can point the direction but the recruit has to take the necessary "steps".

No metaphor intended.... was just trying to make a joke... about maps... yeah...

Guess it was a pretty bad joke haha... I'll use italics next time.

 

[ND NYC]

so why accept James commitment in the first place if there is an as yet unresolved academic issue?

with golden tate they gave him a road map, he navigated it, and once complete to admissions standards he committed to the irish.

seems fair to me.

almost feel like by accepting James "commitment" (and if rumors true saying you looking we looking) that they locked this kid into ND or no one else.

at least with golden he was able to keep his options open throughout the process into the late fall IIRC...knowing if he met the ND admissions req's he was in.

 

[ndfi78]

I thought it was pretty funny IrishLax

 

[Irish#1]

Well, I'm an artsy fartsy person with a "supplementary major" in a foreign language (there was no French minor at ND ... le sigh ... ) but I tend to agree with you. Perhaps the point is that a student's ability to pass foreign language courses, like his ability to pass high-level math courses, says something about his overall intelligence? I'm just guessing; as I sit here today I don't see any compelling justification for the foreign language requirement. Not sure I get why you can't just take it when you get to ND. Plenty of intro courses available, as Lax says.

Rosetta Stone?

 

[RDU Irish]

Sounds like a stressful Fall Finals for Mr. James. Hunker down and get'r'dun!

Seems like there is confidence (to use the word kind of backwards) that we are losing SOMEONE in this class either through admissions or flipping elsewhere. If you say three guys are 2/3rds Irish, odds are one of the three doesn't stick. If all three stick and we fill up expecting to lose one, well I feel bad for Danny and/or Carlo.

 

[BGIF]

so why accept James commitment in the first place if there is an as yet unresolved academic issue?

with golden tate they gave him a road map, he navigated it, and once complete to admissions standards he committed to the irish.

seems fair to me.

almost feel like by accepting James "commitment" (and if rumors true saying you looking we looking) that they locked this kid into ND or no one else.

at least with golden he was able to keep his options open throughout the process into the late fall IIRC...knowing if he met the ND admissions req's he was in.

Is this your first season following recruiting? Sounds like it is from your post.

The University hasn't accepted James as a student. He gave his verbal commitment to the coaches which isn't binding upon anybody. There is no deception. No unfairness.

Athletes don't get a scholarship at ND until the ND Admissions Department says they're approved to compete in the ND academic environment. Even if the NCAA says they meet the minimum requirements, ND has tougher requirements that the NCAA minimums. It's one of the prime reasons ND wants recruits to visit campus and not just see the stadium nor the locker room but to meet with Admissions and faculty to better understand the academic fit.

ND NYC, has James visited ND and met with Admissions or faculty?

Or did he make a verbal to try and hold a place before all the scholarships were spoken for should he eventually meet ND's requirements?


ALL offers, even Auburn's, are conditional upon getting approval from the NCAA Clearinghouse that a recruit's transcript and test score meets the NCAA requirements. They don't issue those to juniors. Nor to seniors that have taken an ACT nor SAT yet.

ALL ND offers are conditional upon CONTINUED academic performance after NSD. Get senoritis and flunk your last semester and you won't be going to ND, regardless of your 40.

 

[BGIF]

No metaphor intended.... was just trying to make a joke... about maps... yeah...

Guess it was a pretty bad joke haha... I'll use italics next time.

It wasn't bad. I got it. That's why I responded in kind with:

They can point the direction but the recruit has to take the necessary "steps".

Emphasis added.

I thought steps in quotes was sufficient. My apologies.

 

[BGIF]

Sounds like a stressful Fall Finals for Mr. James. Hunker down and get'r'dun!

Seems like there is confidence (to use the word kind of backwards) that we are losing SOMEONE in this class either through admissions or flipping elsewhere. If you say three guys are 2/3rds Irish, odds are one of the three doesn't stick. If all three stick and we fill up expecting to lose one, well I feel bad for Danny and/or Carlo.

There's still that unknown injury, academic, or ResLife casualty that seems to pop over over the winter. Then's there's that Faculty Committee which evaluates and decides which 5th year candidates are academicallly acceptable.

Yet more reasons while coaches like Urban are happier somewhere else.

 

[ND NYC]

Is this your first season following recruiting? Sounds like it is from your post.

The University hasn't accepted James as a student. He gave his verbal commitment to the coaches which isn't binding upon anybody. There is no deception. No unfairness.

Athletes don't get a scholarship at ND until the ND Admissions Department says they're approved to compete in the ND academic environment. Even if the NCAA says they meet the minimum requirements, ND has tougher requirements that the NCAA minimums. It's one of the prime reasons ND wants recruits to visit campus and not just see the stadium nor the locker room but to meet with Admissions and faculty to better understand the academic fit.

ND NYC, has James visited ND and met with Admissions or faculty?

Or did he make a verbal to try and hold a place before all the scholarships were spoken for should he eventually meet ND's requirements?


ALL offers, even Auburn's, are conditional upon getting approval from the NCAA Clearinghouse that a recruit's transcript and test score meets the NCAA requirements. They don't issue those to juniors. Nor to seniors that have taken an ACT nor SAT yet.

ALL ND offers are conditional upon CONTINUED academic performance after NSD. Get senoritis and flunk your last semester and you won't be going to ND, regardless of your 40.

thx for the lecture.
still didnt answer my question though (the first one that i asked).

 

[Emcee77]

thx for the lecture.
still didnt answer my question though (the first one that i asked).

I think his point is that there is always an unresolved academic issue: they haven't graduated from high school. We don't know what happened here exactly. If James was put on track to fulfill all his requirements, but then bombed his foreign language or pre cal or whatever it was, now he has a problem that no one was anticipating. It could be something like that, where James just effed up academically this semester, which obviously we can't blame the staff for.

 

[greyhammer90]

thx for the lecture.
still didnt answer my question though (the first one that i asked).

because almost every high school senior as an "unresolved academic issue." I did great in high school, but I would've had an "unresolved issue" because I didn't take my last class of foreign language until spring semester of my senior year. Stanford does it, ND does it, everybody does it. If you don't accept commitments until they are done with requirements academically, there would be many kids that wouldn't get in until well after signing day.

 

[Ironman8]

thx for the lecture.
still didnt answer my question though (the first one that i asked).

Why does a commitment offer a verbal to a school if he still intends to take visits? A verbal commitment is just that: a verbal, non-binding, offer to attend the school of the prospects choosing. Every single prospect that offers us a commitment is relayed that their offer is contingent upon satisfactory work in the classroom to achieve the scholastic baseline requirements to get in to Notre Dame as a football recruit. This applies for James just as much as it does for Jaylon Smith, Steve Elmer, etc.

It is obvious that we recruit many young men of particular drive and focus, to where it is nary an issue in regards to upkeep on their academic requirements. Unfortunately, we see ever year instances of prospects being highly interested or committed to ND who either simply can not fulfill these requirements, or choose not too (as BGIF most certainly addressed).

It was reported in this very thread that James' verbal commitment was contingent upon satisfactory work in the classroom, and it appears (at least per BGI, who are usually spot on), that he may not have fulfilled his end of the bargain. We accept his verbal, non-binding commitment because of his promise as a person and prospect while detailing all that goes into being able to sign on NSD to Notre Dame. Most choose to fulfill the requirements and are able to come to this prestigious university and program. Some don't.

 

[ND NYC]

i hear and appreciate what you guys are saying.
look, if this kid is flunking out/not performing in the classroom then of course he is not coming here. we all know that
i belive and hope that is the reason: grades.
and not b/c they have others they think are better that they can get. just isnt right to me even if theres a better talent out there. commiments go both ways. if we cooled based on grades i can live with that (expect that)...but if we cooled b/c we fancied another at same position that i have a problem with. that would not be honoring your word.

none of us can/will know any of this grads business for sure anyway. a recruit wont ever say thats the reason and a staff could never talk about it anyway.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

i hear and appreciate what you guys are saying.
look, if this kid is flunking out/not performing in the classroom then of course he is not coming here. we all know that
i belive and hope that is the reason: grades.
and not b/c they have others they think are better that they can get. just isnt right to me even if theres a better talent out there. commiments go both ways. if we cooled based on grades i can live with that (expect that)...but if we cooled b/c we fancied another at same position that i have a problem with. that would not be honoring your word.

none of us can/will know any of this grads business for sure anyway. a recruit wont ever say thats the reason and a staff could never talk about it anyway.

I don't understand why so many ND fans automatically assume the worst when it comes to our coaching staff. You'll find the exact opposite on most other CFB message boards.

We lost David Perkins last year due to grades, and because arrowryan went to school with him, we knew the reason for his decommitment pretty quickly. Greenberry and Shepard left/ decommitted for allegedly similar reasons, but we didn't know about it until much later.

Our coaching staff has been very good about letting kids save face when they have to leave/ decommit due to grades, and it makes sense; it's not good publicity for ND when a kid who really wants to attend gets publicly rejected because they couldn't hack it academically. I'd imagine simply dropping an otherwise admittable kid for a bigger fish would also damage the staff's credibility with recruits. These guys all talk to each other.

 

[ND NYC]

I don't understand why so many ND fans automatically assume the worst when it comes to our coaching staff. You'll find the exact opposite on most other CFB message boards.

We lost David Perkins last year due to grades, and because arrowryan went to school with him, we knew the reason for his decommitment pretty quickly. Greenberry and Shepard left/ decommitted for allegedly similar reasons, but we didn't know about it until much later.

Our coaching staff has been very good about letting kids save face when they have to leave/ decommit due to grades, and it makes sense; it's not good publicity for ND when a kid who really wants to attend gets publicly rejected because they couldn't hack it academically. I'd imagine simply dropping an otherwise admittable kid for a bigger fish would also damage the staff's credibility with recruits. These guys all talk to each other.

i think its the opposite whiskey-i think we all automatically assumet the best...and may be ruling out other reasons these things could/might happen.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

BTW, for those that were complaining about 247 waiting so long to mark him as a commit, this is why. Before the staff would accept his commitmment they had to put an academic road map in place so that he had a path to gain acceptance into ND. To this point it looks like he might have got a flat tire or took a wrong turn...

Then I blame the staff. Should've given him a GPS. Maps are completely antiquated and lead to distracted driving.

Or taken the SEC route and just picked him up in a limo.