'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

woolybug25

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Wooly, I did read your post. The difference is that we knew Tommy wasn't gonna get it done in this offense after the 2011 season. He's not mobile and he can't throw down field. He's hit his ceiling in how far he can take this team. I was huge supporter of either Golson or Hendrix after 2011. Kelly was gonna have to take his lumps with a new starter eventually, but not year after year. Make no mistake. Gunner will probably play next year, but not in a starting role unless there is injury.

You say that like its a foregone conclusion. Why? Because Golson has been lighting it up? Because he has such a great grasp of the offense? Or is it his potential? Well, I would argue that Gunner has more potential than any QB on our roster.

Also, if Gunner has the same grasp of the offense, which is totally plausible as Golson early enrolled and redshirted and still doesn't have it down, then I think Gunner will beat him out. After all, Gunner's ceiling (the reason you like Golson) is through the roof.
 

NDdomer2

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It will just be the same song different tune once Malik enrolls and the qb after that and the qb after that.
 

Irishnuke

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Wow you guys want another 1st year starter to struggle next year? If Kiel starts next year, then you do realize he will struggle like Golson is currently struggling right? Everybody hated Tommy last year but after a year of experience he has contributed significantly to our current 6-0 record as a junior. This is Golson's first year as starter! He's only a sophomore and you want an even greener guy to take the reigns? Ya'll are crazy.

If the greener guy outplays the "experienced" guy in practice then yes, absolutely I want the greener guy. You don't automatically make a QB your starter because he started last year. I wonder if you made this same post last year when people were calling for Golson to start over Rees?
 

Cali_domer

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Kiel starts, Golson middle reliever, Hendrix set-up man, Rees closer. Problem solved.
FIFY
or

Kiel 1st Quarter
Golson 2nd Quarter
Hendrix 3rd Quarter
Rees 4th Quarter

Everyone gets to play!! Just like little league.:cannibal:
 
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Talent
1. Kiel
2. Golson
3. Rees

Experience
1. Rees
2. Golson
3. Kiel

If Kiel starts next year it would mean that Golson learned very little this year.

By the end of the season if he doesn't at least figure out that when 7 or 8 guys are in the box to check out of the play and just chuck it up to Eifert then I will say next year there will be a big battle at QB.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Talent
1. Kiel
2. Golson
3. Rees

Experience
1. Rees
2. Golson
3. Kiel

If Kiel starts next year it would mean that Golson learned very little this year.

The mental aspects of being a QB are obviously crucially important (as we're experiencing this season), but experience != mental mastery of the game. Some guys (read: Crist, Dayne) never get it.

Point being, Kiel could conceivably surpass Golson in his grasp of Kelly's offense.
 
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The mental aspects of being a QB are obviously crucially important (as we're experiencing this season), but experience != mental mastery of the game. Some guys (read: Crist, Dayne) never get it.

Point being, Kiel could conceivably surpass Golson in his grasp of Kelly's offense.

I do agree that Kiel could pass Golson.

All I'm saying is Golson is struggling due to inexperience, yet Kelly keeps going with him. Now Kelly has stated he wants to win this season, so either he believes Golson can improve or he sees him improving. I assume the latter, because if he wasn't then he would be playing Tommy this season (and 2013) and prepping Kiel to take over.
 

dublinirish

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competition breeds success. even if kiel dosent beat out Golson next year hes gonna push him all the way from spring to the fall so its all good in the long run. I dont think Kiel would be one to walk away from the program if his PT isnt sufficient
 

irishff1014

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Every year is a new year. If Gunner beats everyone out next year that means he earned it. I want the best peron out there. I understand that we are 6-0 but alot that is on the defense. Kelly has yet to make this team an offensive bomb.
 

PANDFAN

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you have a 5* freshman qb....you need to keep him engaged and make him get as much exposure to everything the team is going to go through so this part isn't a step he has to experience along w/ everything...seems to me BK is breaking him in and bringing him along slowly..
 

Old Man Mike

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Discussion seems full of unnecessary assumptions.

1). Brand new QBs are always works-in-progress who cost you at least a year before they really are good... NOT from what I see nationally. I've seen some real savvy gunslingers step right in and terrorize opponents. This obviously is not a "rule of football", and will depend upon the individual. Gunner could easily be one of those who just "has it" for all we know at this point. By definition every new starter is... well.... a new starter. Some "old" starters deserve to be old starters no longer in the game.

2). Dreaming about Gunner's potential is rooting against Everett ... DOUBLE NOT. I'll bet not one person [other than a troll] on this board is ever rooting against Everett. Rather everyone wants him to become the Heisman winner, although we are saner than to think that he will anytime soon. Any negative shots at Gunner and Everett fans who point out one or the other's strengths or flaws should be tossed in the garbage where those sorts of whack emotions belong.

3). Gunner had obvious deficits compared to Everett this Spring/Fall practice and that is why Everett was the better choice, and will continue to be... more complex but generally YES AND NOT to the two halves of that. Coach said several times that Gunner came in extremely "naive" about certain elements of the college game. He almost never mentioned anything wrong with talent nor general physicality nor technique. My interpretation was that Kelly thought that Gunner just had to "grow up".

My understanding of our Fall practice situation was that Coach saw Everett as the best combination of athleticism [high], understanding of the game [medium], and maturity [medium] that he had on the roster. Kelly hoped for the latter two to grow rapidly and with some concomitant evolutionary growth in the available playbook. This latter growth has not been as rapid as any of us [nor Coach] wants, but it seems to be happening. The drama of the rest of the season is: will it evolve more quickly and completely. If not, and if Gunner gets it better, there is no reason that Kelly would not start the more effective offense-operator... stunning that anyone doubts this, nor sees it as a possibility.
 

NDhoosier

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My question is... Between Gunner and Golson, does the loser of the starting position next year transfer?
 

BeauBenken

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I made two proclamations after a Notre Dame spring practice I watched. Golson would be the starter this year and I was excited about that...and Gunner Kiel can sling it like none other.
 

dudesthisisthebest

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1). Brand new QBs are always works-in-progress who cost you at least a year before they really are good... NOT from what I see nationally. I've seen some real savvy gunslingers step right in and terrorize opponents.


This. I'm not saying he will be better than Golson next year(I think Golson will prove to be the clear cut starter by the end of this season) but saying that he's automatically going to struggle isn't fair. 4 out of last 5 BCS champions have been led by first year quarterbacks. Sometimes when you're good, you're good.
 

NDdomer2

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This. I'm not saying he will be better than Golson next year(I think Golson will prove to be the clear cut starter by the end of this season) but saying that he's automatically going to struggle isn't fair. 4 out of last 5 BCS champions have been led by first year quarterbacks. Sometimes when you're good, you're good.

It may have been Cam's first year at Auburn but was not his first year playing after HS.
 

Ironman8

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Technically, it wont be Gunner's either.


(we talkin' about practice?)

Cam's Auburn year was his 4th year after leaving HS. Spent 2 years at Florida and then one winning the JUCO NC. Not quite the same.

As for Gunner and the ND QB debate, I honestly could care less who our QB is next year as long as he truly wins the job. With the competition and talent at the position, it should help to only improve all the candidates. I want one to grab the bull by the horns and run with it.
 

BGIF

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.... 4 out of last 5 BCS champions have been led by first year quarterbacks. Sometimes when you're good, you're good.

This is one of the most disingenuous posts on the board.

Fact Checking says, NO!

Background
Rees started as an 18 yr old freshman when the Crist went down. As a 19 yr old soph he was the same age as Clausen when he was a freshman. Golson is a 19 year old true sophomore also the same age as Clausen when he was a freshman.

Unlike Golson (or Kiel next year) all Five QBs in the last 5 years had signficant QB PT prior to becoming a Starter. ALL had considerable time in the weight room and watching film. None were in their first year of play when they became a Starter and some had been playing in a Div 1 Program for 4 years (including Redshirt) before Starting. Flynn was 23 years old his"Starting" Season. Newton was 22. McElroy and McCarron were both 21 and Tebow was 20.

The Five
Matt Flynn, LSU, was a 23 year old 5 yr senior. DOB 6/20/85, '03 RS first year. '04 played in 12 games, 3 as QB. '05 played in 7 games as QB including starting in the Peach Bowl according to his Wiki. '06 played in 7 games as QB

Tim Tebow, UF, 20 years old DOB 8/14/87, '06 as a true freshman played QB in 14 games as a "Significant Contributor", '07 Started as a true soph.

Greg McElroy, UA, 21 years old. DOB 5/10/88, '06 RS as Fr., '07 played in 2 games throwing first collegiate TD, '08 appeared in 6 games throwing several TD passes, '09 after playing for 3 seasons became a 21 yr old starter as a RS JR.

Cam Newton, AU, 23 Years old. DOB 5/11/89, RS as freshman @UF, played in 6 games as UF soph, Jr '09 Starting QB Blinn JC Honorable Mention All-American, '10 AU Div 1 Starter after playing for 3 years in college

A.J. McCarron, UA, 21 yr old, DOB 9/3/90 Played in 13 games as Frosh, Starter as True Soph.
 

dudesthisisthebest

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This is one of the most disingenuous posts on the board.

Fact Checking says, NO!

Background
Rees started as an 18 yr old freshman when the Crist went down. As a 19 yr old soph he was the same age as Clausen when he was a freshman. Golson is a 19 year old true sophomore also the same age as Clausen when he was a freshman.

Unlike Golson (or Kiel next year) all Five QBs in the last 5 years had signficant QB PT prior to becoming a Starter. ALL had considerable time in the weight room and watching film. None were in their first year of play when they became a Starter and some had been playing in a Div 1 Program for 4 years (including Redshirt) before Starting. Flynn was 23 years old his"Starting" Season. Newton was 22. McElroy and McCarron were both 21 and Tebow was 20.

The Five
Matt Flynn, LSU, was a 23 year old 5 yr senior. DOB 6/20/85, '03 RS first year. '04 played in 12 games, 3 as QB. '05 played in 7 games as QB including starting in the Peach Bowl according to his Wiki. '06 played in 7 games as QB

Tim Tebow, UF, 20 years old DOB 8/14/87, '06 as a true freshman played QB in 14 games as a "Significant Contributor", '07 Started as a true soph.

Greg McElroy, UA, 21 years old. DOB 5/10/88, '06 RS as Fr., '07 played in 2 games throwing first collegiate TD, '08 appeared in 6 games throwing several TD passes, '09 after playing for 3 seasons became a 21 yr old starter as a RS JR.

Cam Newton, AU, 23 Years old. DOB 5/11/89, RS as freshman @UF, played in 6 games as UF soph, Jr '09 Starting QB Blinn JC Honorable Mention All-American, '10 AU Div 1 Starter after playing for 3 years in college

A.J. McCarron, UA, 21 yr old, DOB 9/3/90 Played in 13 games as Frosh, Starter as True Soph.

First year starter is what I meant. Apologies.
 

BGIF

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First year starter is what I meant. Apologies.

It's still a BS statement. It was made by Steele and repeated by ESPN and others. Look at the ages of The Five when they became Starters. These are grown men, fully developed, most with several years in a program and several years of experience, and you're making a statement comparing them to 19 year olds.

They also played behind veteran QBs, learning by observing. Turnover Tommy is the only college QB Golson has mentored under. Kiel has Turnover Tommy and Give It Up Golson as his role models. He's has a great view of one QB that can't run and the other that has plays signaled into him as time expires. Cave calls out the defense for him and he can't change the play when the defense realigns.

The Five played with pretty solid teams. I know where our offense, defense and Special Teams are ranked. Tell me how solid they are after OU and USC.

Kevin McDougal was a first time "starter" in '93 and almost took ND to a NC. BUT he was also veteran Sr QB. He was in his 4th year in Holtz's Program. He had been throwing passes to Derrick Mayes and Oscar McBride for several years against the likes of Bobby Taylor and Allen Rossum. He had been running the option wth Becton and Company against Wynn, Berry, Dansby, and the rest of the ND #1 defense for several years. He didn't have to learn the playbook or the timing of the option as a first year starter. Neither did The Five.
 

dudesthisisthebest

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I feel like I should clarify. I was in no way trying to compare their situations to Gunner. I was using it to illustrate that little to no game experience isn't a death sentence for a team. Now I understand that these guys were all older than Gunner will be next year and that's why I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison.

That brings me to the point I was trying to make. Sometimes it doesn't matter when you become a starter. Some players are talented enough and smart enough that in their Sophomore/RS Freshman year, with little to no previous playing time, can run an efficient offense, make pre-snap reads, limit turnovers, and not burn timeouts like Golson has done at times this year. I'd trade our offensive production this year for the production these guys had in their soph/rs fresh year any day:

Marcus Mariota
Tim Tebow
Sam Bradford
Colt McCoy

Those are the obvious ones. Although the odds aren't great, I think its too early to conclude that Gunner couldn't be as good as these guys. So what I am saying is that if he really is a special talent, he won't necessarily be relegated to making a lot of mistakes.
 

tadman95

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Apparently didn't make the trip because there were extra administrators on the plane and someone had to sit. SMH
 
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