What would you choose?

[To the Naugh]

This year has been a roller-coaster. Inexplicable losses to Marshall and Stanford, but a dominating win versus Clemson. While everyone wishes Notre Dame won every game, if you had to choose between the following outcomes, what would you choose:

1) Notre Dame defeats both Marshall and Stanford, but looses by 10 points to Clemson. Record right now in this scenario is 7-2 and let's assume a college football ranking of #11. (I personally think this is where we are if Brian Kelly is still head coach.)

2) Notre Dame's season plays out exactly as it has. As frustrated as I was after the Marshall and Stanford game, I think I choose this scenario, particularly given this is Freeman's first year. I think Freeman learns how to win against inferior competition, but he has now demonstrated an ability to get his team up for big games.

Interested in others perspective.

 

[notredomer23]

This year has been a roller-coaster. Inexplicable losses to Marshall and Stanford, but a dominating win versus Clemson. While everyone wishes Notre Dame won every game, if you had to choose between the following outcomes, what would you choose:

1) Notre Dame defeats both Marshall and Stanford, but looses by 10 points to Clemson. Record right now in this scenario is 7-2 and let's assume a college football ranking of #11. (I personally think this is where we are if Brian Kelly is still head coach.)

2) Notre Dame's season plays out exactly as it has. As frustrated as I was after the Marshall and Stanford game, I think I choose this scenario, particularly given this is Freeman's first year. I think Freeman learns how to win against inferior competition, but he has now demonstrated an ability to get his team up for big games.

Interested in others perspective.

I think #2. #1 is more of the same we've had for 11 years and doesn't really show any growth as a program.

#2, while frustrating, shows that Freeman can win a big game and should shut down any questions about his coaching ability for a while. It's also pretty clear where the issues on the team are and are fixable through the portal and his strong recruiting. Lastly, much easier learning how to consistently win against inferior competition than it is to win the big one.

 

[ndfi78]

I agree with you, I choose the current scenario. It feels like the team is building and getting better right now.

 

[arrowryan]

Definitely #2. Learning to beat the teams you’re supposed to beat us an easier fix.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Whichever one is more appealing to recruits.

 

[ACamp1900]

It's good for perspective for sure,.. well done.

I'd still take option 3 though: Notre Dame hasn't lost a football game since 1995 and has won every natty from then to now.

 

[NDdomer2]

count me crazy but #1 all things considered with Pyne's limitations. much higher probability in scenario 1 to enter a NY6 bowl game as well.

 

[Panda]

Maybe #1 if it made Freeman realize more acutely that this is his team and to be less of a bystander on the Offense. Should be good for next year then. Those losses obviously torched this season though.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Whichever one leads to less "I hate Tommy Rees" posts.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

2.

The joy of Saturday night really outweighed Marshall and Stanford. Already in the rearview.

Now some real sell your soul magic, I'd take 8-1 right now.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

2.

The joy of Saturday night really outweighed Marshall and Stanford. Already in the rearview.

Now some real sell your soul magic, I'd take 8-1 right now.

Great movie.

If we're getting crazy, let's go all the way... 9-0

I think the coaches and the beat expected this team to look similar to what we saw versus UNC, BYU, Syracuse, even Clemson to a degree. They essentially called their shot during OSU with the game plan. Aside from the QB issue, I think they expected a solid defense, a solid offense line, and a solid run game. They were right, it just took some growing pains to get there. Had the team that dominated Clemson showed up even at 80% capacity (OL play, RB play, defense doesn't give up long drives and 3rd and longs, maybe creates a turnover, ST punt unit doesn't need a block returned for a TD to positively effect a game)....they might pull off the upset in Columbus and they sure as hell don't lose to Marshall or Stanford.

I'll go with option number 2 here, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with it. Coulda woulda shoulda.

 

[Irish#1]

#1 only if the loss to Clemson is on the last play of the game where the ref blows it so bad that there is national outrage from Fox, ESPN and everyone else.

 

[ulukinatme]

I enjoyed the hell out of the Clemson win. I expected 2-3 losses in the regular season, and losing to Marshall and Stanford sucks balls, but sticking it to Dabo is fun. Wins against all the rest of the ACC again: North Carolina, Syracuse, and hopefully BC is just icing on the cake. Competing and beating the big boys is what we should be striving for. If that means losing to a couple lesser teams along the way as Freeman figures things out I'm alright with those sacrifices. I think if the same team shows up next week against USC then we finish at 9-3 regular season with a chance to get 10 wins again in a bowl.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Well it depends on how wins against Marshall and Stanford play out. If you say they come down to Navy type endings and long stretches of the game are more than cringe worthy, no thanks. However if they absolutely run train on them by hanging 1/2 a hundred, well I might sign up for that.

 

[IrishLax]

I think I take #2. Quality wins > bad losses?

I've always hated the dumb narrative of "Notre Dame can't beat..." so when you go out and throttle a top 5 team that is likely on their way to 12-1 and at worst 11-2 I think that outweighs inexplicable losses to some bad teams.

 

[greyhammer90]

There's something comforting about the losses being THAT bad. The talent and metrics are so out of whack that it's hard to imagine being replicated. Its almost certainly a mentality thing that should be correctable from a first year HC learning the pulse of a team.

 

[ACamp1900]

There's something comforting about the losses being THAT bad. The talent and metrics are so out of whack that it's hard to imagine being replicated. Its almost certainly a mentality thing that should be correctable from a first year HC learning the pulse of a team.

Even after reading the rest and making sense of it.... this first sentence still melts my mind... lol

 

[T-Boone]

Number 2.
Also ND needs to schedule cup cakes for the first 2 weeks every year so the oline has time to jell.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

I will say the way ND came out in the OSU and Clemson games, particularly on defense, looked better, faster, and stronger than any Irish team I've seen. I remember watching the first few series of the OSU game and being like "holy shit, theyre CRACKING dudes." So maybe we're headed in the right direction. But if crap the bed once more this year Marcus does not get a passing grade for the year.

 

[NDRock]

I’ll always choose the one where we beat elite teams. This program, as much as any in the country, needs those types of wins. The goal should be we can beat anyone in the country. We’ve not been there since Holtz left.

Letdown games against inferior opponents will happen. Hopefully we won’t have such poor QB play going forward where we actually lose those types of games.

 

[ACamp1900]

Number 2.
Also ND needs to schedule cup cakes for the first 2 weeks every year so the oline has time to jell.

First two months*** go full SEC/Michigan on it,… play a regional schedule that guarantees any team with top 15 talent ten wins a season before things even get going. Win one of your two legit challenges while avoiding upsets and you’re 11-1 most years.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Definitely #2, because the context set by our previous coach is important. Freeman was a gamble to move past the ceiling Kelly reached but refused to help us exceed. So having Freeman replicate Kelly's formula (10-3 with losses to OSU, Clemson and a random NY6 bowl opponent) doesn't move the needle, even if the '23 recruiting class looks to be an improvement. There's always pain during a coaching transition, so a couple WTF losses to teams we're clearly better than is easier to forgive than reinforcing the established narrative of how we can't win big games.

More importantly, #2 includes our best case scenario, which is not just one, but two Top-5 wins and a NY6 bowl victory in Freeman's very first year as HC. Kelly couldn't manage either of those things in 12 years, so I'd love for MFMF to emphatically do them both ASAP.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Definitely #2, because the context set by our previous coach is important. Freeman was a gamble to move past the ceiling Kelly reached but refused to help us exceed. So having Freeman replicate Kelly's formula (10-3 with losses to OSU, Clemson and a random NY6 bowl opponent) doesn't move the needle, even if the '23 recruiting class looks to be an improvement. There's always pain during a coaching transition, so a couple WTF losses to teams we're clearly better than is easier to forgive than reinforcing the established narrative of how we can't win big games.

More importantly, #2 includes our best case scenario, which is not just one, but two Top-5 wins and a NY6 bowl victory in Freeman's very first year as HC. Kelly couldn't manage either of those things in 12 years, so I'd love for MFMF to emphatically do them both ASAP.

i mean dude if we win out it'll have been an incredible season by any standard. if we just lose one more game it'll be mildly disappointing but fine. any more than that and it's confirmed as a dumpster fire and marcus needs to make actual changes

 

[irishfan]

#2. Freeman can get the team up for big games. That was obviously proven during the Clemson game and in retrospect the OSU score looks like a miracle given how bad we were the next couple games. I believe (or want to believe) that getting the team up for the lesser opponents is something he can learn to do and will come with more experience.