Wake Forest Post Game Thread

[Irish YJ]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wake Forest announces defensive coordinator Jay Sawvel has been relieved of his duties.<br>Tom Gilmore, currently a defensive analyst, will be promoted to OLB coach. Other roles to be determined.</p>— Ralph D. Russo (@ralphDrussoAP) <a href="https://twitter.com/ralphDrussoAP/status/1043955115995148288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 23, 2018</a></blockquote>

Ouch... Book saying....

 

[Dizzyphil]

NBC has a good article on why they went with BW against scUM. if you don’t wanna read it, it basically said the offense was too immature at the beginning of the season and BW was their best playmaker. Four games into the season, everyone else is starting to mature and the running game is doing better, so the time was right to switch to Book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuvRKxI-tc

 

[Irish YJ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuvRKxI-tc

BK's comments on how our O performance (pre-WF) put to much stress on the D ("it was going to break"), really sums things up.

Also the comments about Chip being brought in to to run a balanced offense, which was not happening pre-WF.

 

[greyhammer90]

BW has played crap defenses before. He never made it look as surgical as yesterday.

Not disagreeing with the overall point, but USC, BC, Wake Forest last year all looked pretty surgical.

 

[koonja]

Not disagreeing with the overall point, but USC, BC, Wake Forest last year all looked pretty surgical.

If you combine the BC and USC game, BW had 276 passing yards. Book had more in this game alone, and you're pulling 2 of wimbushes best games.

He did have 280 vs wake last year.

The MSU game is always romanticized too, and IIRC he was at 50% passing and like 130 yards.

Yes, he can run. But Book showed white boy wheelz yesterday too.

 

[Irish YJ]

Not disagreeing with the overall point, but USC, BC, Wake Forest last year all looked pretty surgical.

Surgical to me, means accurate and consistent in the passing game.

Here's the def

denoting something done with great precision, especially a swift and highly accurate military attack from the air.

BC last year, BW had a big game running but was 46% completions...
USC, another great game rushing, but 47%
WF, good rushing, better passing yard wise, but 50%. Very, very effective, but not surgical

I've said several times that BW didn't need to be 60% to be successful, but surgical he is/was not (in those games).

 

[greyhammer90]

Surgical to me, means accurate and consistent in the passing game.

Here's the def


BC last year, BW had a big game running but was 46% completions...
USC, another great game rushing, but 47%
WF, good rushing, better passing yard wise, but 50%. Very, very effective, but not surgical

I've said several times that BW didn't need to be 60% to be successful, but surgical he is/was not (in those games).

That's fine if you define it as purely passing. But yeah, he was repeatedly, consistently, back breaking against those teams last year and had answers for anything the defenses tried to slow him down. Book was great yesterday, but I'm not going to pretend like it was more dominant than what BW has shown in the past. Consistency is key.

 

[arrowryan]

That's fine if you define it as purely passing. But yeah, he was repeatedly, consistently, back breaking against those teams last year and had answers for anything the defenses tried to slow him down. Book was great yesterday, but I'm not going to pretend like it was more dominant than what BW has shown in the past. Consistency is key.

Wimbush is consistently inconsistent

 

[Irish YJ]

That's fine if you define it as purely passing. But yeah, he was repeatedly, consistently, back breaking against those teams last year and had answers for anything the defenses tried to slow him down. Book was good yesterday, but I'm not going to pretend like it was more dominant than what BW has shown in the past. Consistency is key.

He was indeed backbreaking with his legs no doubt. Let's not forget that Adams had 200+ rushing yards vs BC, and almost 200 vs USC. Wake was probably his individual most back breaking games (280 yrds passing, 100+ rushing).

The problem was, teams figured him out. The next three games I believe he was 50% or under, and under a 100 yards rushing.

I agree 1000% consistency is key. I do think that teams have figured BW out, and I think it's easier to shut him down, than a quick and highly accurate QB with decent, but not electric wheels. We shall see.

 

[ThePiombino]

Rather easily.

McSorley is not a 60%+ passer, he's not faster than Wimbush, and he is not a guy who "distributes" the ball with a bunch of touch passes. Joe Moorhead's offense is what you run... vertical shots, tuck and run, misdirection NOT true "RPO read the defense and the DE" in the backfield.

When stuff was scripted... we're talking pre-determined reads, and if not there he tucks it... he was decisive, on target, and efficient at levels that drastically outpaced the rest of the game. When he was asked to do full field reads, RPOs, zone reads, screen passes to his right, and hand off on slow-developing running plays on every single first down is where it went to shit. Long's offense for Wimbush was possibly the most uncreative and poorly designed scheme I've seen from an OC at Notre Dame since Charley Molnar.

$1M question -- are we better off with Book running BK/CL's offense or BW running Moorehead-style offense? Is there room (or a need really) for both on this team? Seems the more methodical offense would be better for our defense, no?

 

[Irish YJ]

$1M question -- are we better off with Book running BK/CL's offense or BW running Moorehead-style offense? Is there room (or a need really) for both on this team? Seems the more methodical offense would be better for our defense, no?

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/7/17/17453332/joe-moorhead-mississippi-state-offense-philosophy

While I do think BW would benefit by a Moorehead type offense, I think he would still struggle with 2 and 3 (from linked article). To me, the question is, how much "bend" does an OC (or HC) allow to hide flaws and focus on strengths? Do they scrap their core offensive strategy (which by the way impacts QB2, and all the O players as well).

I think what BK and Chip did, based on BK's comments in the post game (BW led O putting a lot of stress on the D), was classic bend but don't break coaching. They allowed for a lot of bending short of scrapping their core O philosophy, and finally made a decision to flip and get back to things closer to their standard concepts of O, and one that would make it easier for the OL, WR/TEs, and D.

Do I get the Million? lol

 

[Irish YJ]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/notre-dame/2018/09/23/notre-dames-brian-kelly-says-brandon-wimbush-can-emulate-ian-book/1403654002/

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. – If Brandon Wimbush needs an example to follow as a backup quarterback, he has one: Ian Book.

That’s the way Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly sees it anyway. Kelly has a reputation for often changing quarterbacks, but it would be hard to quarrel with what he did Saturday.

The coach switched to Book, who accounted for five touchdowns in a 56-27 victory at Wake Forest.

That outcome set up one of the most anticipated matchups in recent Notre Dame Stadium history. Next Saturday night’s game — No. 7 Stanford (4-0) at No. 8 Notre Dame (4-0) — will be the first between top-eight teams in South Bend since No. 4 Ohio State and No. 5 Notre Dame in 1996.

The highest-ranked opponent Kelly has opposed at Notre Dame Stadium was No. 11 Southern California, which lost to the Irish 49-14 last year.

Kelly said Book stayed engaged even as Wimbush was the starter.

“He knew that he was going to contribute, and Brandon knows he's going to contribute,” Kelly said. “So I think he's got the right makeup that he'll be engaged and prepared each and every week. So I'm not really concerned about that.

“And again, we will see how each week goes. I think it's a very fluid situation from week to week and we'll make sure that he's prepared to play, just as we did the same thing with Ian and made sure we prepared him week to week.”

Wimbush has repeatedly stated Book is a close friend. Kelly has repeatedly stated he would use both quarterbacks.

Center Sam Mustipher said the Irish needed a game like this to boost collective confidence. He sounded unconcerned about Wimbush’s reaction to being benched.

“He really didn’t need me to say much to him. He’s a competitive guy,” Mustipher said. “So obviously, that hurt a little bit. He just prepared the exact way as if he was going to be the starter.

“I think that’s a testament to who he is as a person.”

With Book at quarterback, the Irish scored eight touchdowns, equaling the total from the first three games combined. The outcome was costly for Wake Forest defensive coordinator Jay Sawvel, who was fired Sunday by coach Dave Clawson.

The 56 points were most by the Irish in a true road game since a 57-7 win at Stanford in 2003. They were 7-for-7 on scoring TDs inside the 20, something they had not done since 2011 against Navy.

Book has a passer rating of 179.2, which would be 14th in the nation if he had enough attempts to qualify for ranking.

 

[ThePiombino]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/7/17/17453332/joe-moorhead-mississippi-state-offense-philosophy

While I do think BW would benefit by a Moorehead type offense, I think he would still struggle with 2 and 3 (from linked article). To me, the question is, how much "bend" does an OC (or HC) allow to hide flaws and focus on strengths? Do they scrap their core offensive strategy (which by the way impacts QB2, and all the O players as well).

I think what BK and Chip did, based on BK's comments in the post game (BW led O putting a lot of stress on the D), was classic bend but don't break coaching. They allowed for a lot of bending short of scrapping their core O philosophy, and finally made a decision to flip and get back to things closer to their standard concepts of O, and one that would make it easier for the OL, WR/TEs, and D.

Do I get the Million? lol

Reps, thanks! Haha, we have a winner!

 

[irishandy]

Book was great yesterday, but I'm not going to pretend like it was more dominant than what BW has shown in the past. Consistency is key.

When has Wimbush been consistent this year? This game was tailored for Ian Book and Kelly made a great decision starting Book over Wimbush. Wake's pass defense was horrible going into this game. Wimbush had more interceptions the last 2 games than touchdowns. Right now Ian Book is a better passing QB than Wimbush. I am not here to knock Wimbush, but what Book did against LSU and WF has been more dominant what Wimbush has done.

 

[greyhammer90]

When has Wimbush been consistent this year? This game was tailored for Ian Book and Kelly made a great decision starting Book over Wimbush. Wake's pass defense was horrible going into this game. Wimbush had more interceptions the last 2 games than touchdowns. Right now Ian Book is a better passing QB than Wimbush. I am not here to knock Wimbush, but what Book did against LSU and WF has been more dominant what Wimbush has done.

Where did I say that Wimbush was consistent? I was merely saying that Wimbush has also had highs, and right now all we have from Book is one fantastic performance. As Wimbush has shown, being great for one game doesn't necessarily indicate future performance. And as you pointed out, Wake Forest's pass D is turribul. I'm just saying that the posters who are all in on Book might want to take a step back. There's a good chance that he takes the job and runs with it. There's also a good chance that Wimbush will be needed for the future as Book gets more film around and also gets schemed around.

Since everyone seems to be confused by the usage because they are bringing up Wimbush's lack of consistency as a cheeky response, "Consistency is key" means: Wimbush is inconsistent, and it cost him the job and made us a much worse team. If Book is consistently what we saw on Wake Forest, we're going to be amazing. If Book is more like Wimbush, in that he's going to go through really bad games (very possible), then we are very likely the same team we were all worried about before. I have no idea what will end up occurring.

 

[BGIF]

When has Wimbush been consistent this year? This game was tailored for Ian Book and Kelly made a great decision starting Book over Wimbush. Wake's pass defense was horrible going into this game. Wimbush had more interceptions the last 2 games than touchdowns. Right now Ian Book is a better passing QB than Wimbush. I am not here to knock Wimbush, but what Book did against LSU and WF has been more dominant what Wimbush has done.

You say you're not here to knock Wimbush but you bring up the TDs/INTs when you know Wimbush gets pulled in the Red Zone.

Tell me about Book's decision making. It was quick and sharp. His execution helped RBs, WRs, and OLs better execute their jobs. Thus providing a better offensive performance.

 

[Irish YJ]

One of the differences a good game vs an inferior opponent makes... If we can get by Stanford, guessing we'll be high 40s.

 

[Irish YJ]

Rewatched a bit of the game today and took a closer look at the stats.

Game balls:
BK/CL - for making the gutsy call, and also for doing well in all 3 phases.

O - Book - 368 total yards and 5 TDs
Honorable mention
Armstrong - 113 total yards and 2 TDs
Mack - 6 for 61 and clutch even while getting hit bigly

D - Okwara - 5Ts, 1Sck, 3.5TFLs, 1QBH
Honorable mention
Gilman - Led team with 9Ts
+several others that were balls out

True Frosh player
D - Bo Bauer 5Ts
O - Austin - 2 for 35

 

[OhioIrish31]

I felt sorry (a little) for their starting QB...we beat the crap out of him.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I won't feel sorry for Costello if he gets beat up the same.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Valpodoc85]

Stanfords OL is the real deal. Gonna be harder to put the hurt on Costello. Would really like to out muscle the tree. Pay back with interest

 

[Irish YJ]

Stanfords OL is the real deal. Gonna be harder to put the hurt on Costello. Would really like to out muscle the tree. Pay back with interest

FWIW, Driskell said WF's OL is just as good as Stanford's. TBH, not worried about their OL. I'm worried about their RB's getting off, as we'll likely put a lot of effort into defending their big WRs/TEs. I'm just glad our DBs and LBs have been going against our own jumbo athletes in practice.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Not sure I agree with driskell on that. The rt guard goes 350. Both tackles are 6’7”. They play the twin tight end fullback smash mouth. Will be a lot more physical than wake

 

[aaronb]

Absolutely nailed it here. Long's offense was very boring and vanilla for Wimbush. I don't know if it's because he didn't trust Wimbush to do something, or because he was scared of the outcomes, but it was a stagnant offense. That, I fault on Long, not Wimbush. However, Wimbush needs to perform better himself. I think in a Moorhead style offense, or I believe you even said, an RGIII O that Baylor ran it would be successful for Brandon. As it stands, this offense looked very well called yesterday, can it be sustained is the question.

I don't buy this....a QB that can't throw with consistency isn't going to succeed in any offense. Expect maybe GA Tech or Navy's.

 

[IrishLax]

FWIW, Driskell said WF's OL is just as good as Stanford's. TBH, not worried about their OL. I'm worried about their RB's getting off, as we'll likely put a lot of effort into defending their big WRs/TEs. I'm just glad our DBs and LBs have been going against our own jumbo athletes in practice.

Their OL hasn't played well so far this year, but I personally think they've got a lot more overall talent than Wake Forest. They have a ton of size and are very good in pass protection. They have no been nearly as effective at run blocking as people thought they would be... hopefully this isn't the game where that changes.

 

[Irish YJ]

Their OL hasn't played well so far this year, but I personally think they've got a lot more overall talent than Wake Forest. They have a ton of size and are very good in pass protection. They have no been nearly as effective at run blocking as people thought they would be... hopefully this isn't the game where that changes.

I agree they have more talent/size etc.. I think a lot of teams have put focus on stopping their run (with all the love for Love), only to get burned by their big WR/TEs. I just hope ND doesn't put to much focus on stopping the passing game, giving Love a chance to have a breakout game. Oregon is top 10 vs the run stat wise.

 

[Irishize]

Not sure I agree with driskell on that. The rt guard goes 350. Both tackles are 6’7”. They play the twin tight end fullback smash mouth. Will be a lot more physical than wake

He did admit that Stanford plays more physical than WF...wish I think most of us know or at least assume.

Their secondary should be the best ND faces this season.

 

[Irish YJ]

He did admit that Stanford plays more physical than WF...wish I think most of us know or at least assume.

Their secondary should be the best ND faces this season.

scUM would strongly disagree. So would the stats (by a lot).

BS, Navy, Vandy, USC, and Pit all look better than Stanford stat wise as well. Stats aren't everything, but scUM is definitely better.

 

[Irish#1]

Their OL hasn't played well so far this year, but I personally think they've got a lot more overall talent than Wake Forest. They have a ton of size and are very good in pass protection. They have no been nearly as effective at run blocking as people thought they would be... hopefully this isn't the game where that changes.

I agree they have more talent/size etc.. I think a lot of teams have put focus on stopping their run (with all the love for Love), only to get burned by their big WR/TEs. I just hope ND doesn't put to much focus on stopping the passing game, giving Love a chance to have a breakout game. Oregon is top 10 vs the run stat wise.

This will be the best defense Stanford has faced this year. This game won't be easy, but if we can keep pressure on Costello and get a lead like Oregon, I don't see us giving the game away.

 

[greyhammer90]

if we can keep pressure on Costello and get a lead like Oregon, I don't see us giving the game away.

Just gonna put that out into the universe?