Unrealized Potential Under Weis

[ND101]

Honestly, has there been a season in recent memory where we should have been more excited for the offense than the upcoming '14 season? This one could really be special.

I would think 2009 with Jimmy at QB Allen at RB Rudolph Tight end and Golden Floyd at receiver had the most expectations of any offense in recent memory

 

[ACamp1900]

I was pumped for 06... but yeah... overall this team should be the most talented ND has had in years... like maybe in my entire adult life... I'm still worried about that schedule, I don't see many teams anywhere that could survive that one.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I would think 2009 with Jimmy at QB Allen at RB Rudolph Tight end and Golden Floyd at receiver had the most expectations of any offense in recent memory

Too bad the OL was such a liability. Had Weis been able to properly develop his linemen, Olsen, Young and Robinson could have made that one of the best offensive units of all time.

 

[koonja]

I would think 2009 with Jimmy at QB Allen at RB Rudolph Tight end and Golden Floyd at receiver had the most expectations of any offense in recent memory

I think that's probably true. But in hindsight, now that we know what Weis really was and how BK OL > Weis OL, you could argue this team has more offensive talent. Better RBs, better OL, dynamic QB.

 

[Irish YJ]

I think that's probably true. But in hindsight, now that we know what Weis really was and how BK OL > Weis OL, you could argue this team has more offensive talent. Better RBs, better OL, dynamic QB.

More athletic, but not as "aerial"

 

[IrishLion]

I think that's probably true. But in hindsight, now that we know what Weis really was and how BK OL > Weis OL, you could argue this team has more offensive talent. Better RBs, better OL, dynamic QB.

More athletic, but not as "aerial"

Though Rudolph, Tate and Floyd formed a Holy Triumvirate, there was not much behind those guys. I think with the (somewhat) proven abilities of Daniels, Fuller, Robinson and Brown combined with the potential of Hunter, Prosise, Onwualu, Brent, Holmes, Heuerman, Smythe and Weishar, the current offense trumps '09 in terms of overall talent simply because of depth.

 

[wizards8507]

Though Rudolph, Tate and Floyd formed a Holy Triumvirate, there was not much behind those guys. I think with the (somewhat) proven abilities of Daniels, Fuller, Robinson and Brown combined with the potential of Hunter, Prosise, Onwualu, Brent, Holmes, Heuerman, Smythe and Weishar, the current offense trumps '09 in terms of overall talent simply because of depth.

Neither Floyd nor Rudolph were THAT great when they played with Golden. In 2009 they had 44 and 33 receptions to Golden's 93, which is actually worse than the 49 and 32 recorded by DaVaris Daniels and Troy Niklas in 2013.

 

[ACamp1900]

Wasn't Floyd hurt for a portion of that year?? Those offenses were among the best in the nation... too bad they never translated to more wins...

 

[IrishLion]

Neither Floyd nor Rudolph were THAT great when they played with Golden. In 2009 they had 44 and 33 receptions to Golden's 93, which is actually worse than the 49 and 32 recorded by DaVaris Daniels and Troy Niklas in 2013.

I think that may be a product of the fact that Golden was so effective at abusing one-on-one matchups, and also the fact that defenses rolled extra help to Floyd's side more often than Tate's side when they played together.

Either way though, I do get your point that it was more of a year-by-year progression of their dominance, rather than all three at one time.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Too bad the OL was such a liability. Had Weis been able to properly develop his linemen, Olsen, Young and Robinson could have made that one of the best offensive units of all time.

Oh what could have been in 2010.

 

[ulukinatme]

Neither Floyd nor Rudolph were THAT great when they played with Golden. In 2009 they had 44 and 33 receptions to Golden's 93, which is actually worse than the 49 and 32 recorded by DaVaris Daniels and Troy Niklas in 2013.

Wasn't Floyd hurt for a portion of that year?? Those offenses were among the best in the nation... too bad they never translated to more wins...

I think Floyd was injured EVERY year except for his senior season...and he got injured in the last game if I recall. We never really did get to see him on the field with Rudolph and Tate for an entire season. Tate got 93 receptions that year in part because the rest of our receivers were mediocre at best. That not saying Tate wasn't phenomenal, he made plays despite being double covered quite a bit. If Floyd hadn't been hurt, he certainly would have shouldered some of that load.

 

[GoIrish41]

I think that may be a product of the fact that Golden was so effective at abusing one-on-one matchups, and also the fact that defenses rolled extra help to Floyd's side more often than Tate's side when they played together.

Either way though, I do get your point that it was more of a year-by-year progression of their dominance, rather than all three at one time.

Floyd and, if I'm not mistaken Rudolph, too, had injury issues in the Tate years. Floyd broke his collarbone and missed several games one year, and Rudolph had major hamstring issues. If they would have all been on the field together and healthy all the time they played together, wow, that could have been something specialThat said. Tate is one of my favorite ND players of all time.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I think Floyd was injured EVERY year except for his senior season...and he got injured in the last game if I recall. We never really did get to see him on the field with Rudolph and Tate for an entire season. Tate got 93 receptions that year in part because the rest of our receivers were mediocre at best. That not saying Tate wasn't phenomenal, he made plays despite being double covered quite a bit. If Floyd hadn't been hurt, he certainly would have shouldered some of that load.

To be fair he took a hell of a shot in that game his senior year, anybody would have been injured off of that one.

 

[PLACforever]

Wasn't Floyd hurt for a portion of that year?? Those offenses were among the best in the nation... too bad they never translated to more wins...

Put a Weis offense with Teo's senior defense and Bama would have been stomped.
CW always went for the jugular, I'll give him that.

 

[Junkhead]

Put a Weis offense either Teo's senior defense and Bama would have been stomped.
CW always went for the jugular, I'll give him that.

 

[PLACforever]

Serious

 

[NCND]

Serious

El oh El

 

[TheTurningPoint]

2009 Rudolph and Floyd broke collarbones.

 

[Grahambo]

2009 Rudolph and Floyd broke collarbones.

We'll always have:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/rI_I70F0XjI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Irishbounty28]

We'll always have:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/rI_I70F0XjI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Easily the most composed play in Crist's career. I remember watching this play and believing he was going to be something special after that second half. I literally yelled so loud after this play that I think my neighbors could hear me. I still feel bad for Crist, he is a great kid.

 

[stlnd01]

Easily the most composed play in Crist's career. I remember watching this play and believing he was going to be something special after that second half. I literally yelled so loud after this play that I think my neighbors could hear me. I still feel bad for Crist, he is a great kid.

Funny how both Crist and Rees had probably their single most-impressive performance (in a big game anyway) in crazy losses to Michigan early in their career.
Here's to Greg Bryant having an impressive performance in a win over Michigan early in his career.

 

[returnofthemack]

Put a Weis offense with Teo's senior defense and Bama would have been stomped.
CW always went for the jugular, I'll give him that.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. There were plenty of times where Weis would ease off near the end of the third and allow the opponent to come back. Also, scoreless third quarters were something of a tradition while I was at ND. It was a joke among my friends that to win, we'd need to take at least a 21-point lead into halftime. I think a better way of saying it would be that with Kelly's coaching, the offensive talent Weis accumulated, and Te'o's senior year defense, we would have won the championship. Hell, we could have won it the year before that too. Clausen would have destroyed teams in a hurry-up no-huddle, especially with Floyd. People like to talk all this bullshit about how Rees is the most accurate passer based on pass completion - Clausen had no protection most of the time, and still threw some of the most beautiful darts I've seen.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. There were plenty of times where Weis would ease off near the end of the third and allow the opponent to come back. Also, scoreless third quarters were something of a tradition while I was at ND. It was a joke among my friends that to win, we'd need to take at least a 21-point lead into halftime. I think a better way of saying it would be that with Kelly's coaching, the offensive talent Weis accumulated, and Te'o's senior year defense, we would have won the championship. Hell, we could have won it the year before that too. Clausen would have destroyed teams in a hurry-up no-huddle, especially with Floyd. People like to talk all this bullshit about how Rees is the most accurate passer based on pass completion - Clausen had no protection most of the time, and still threw some of the most beautiful darts I've seen.

Was that coaching or conditioning? With an assist of poor line recruiting?

 

[IrishLion]

Was that coaching or conditioning? With an assist of poor line recruiting?

I think a mixture of "all-of-the-above," which is what you're getting at I'm sure.

I think the brunt of the problem was coaching. Weis picked the wrong times to get overly conservative, and also the wrong times to "go for the throat" by calling an ill-advised go-route (or any pass in general [Michigan game in '09, curl route to freshman Shaq Evans]). It just seemed that he didn't have a great feel for what to call to close out the game or keep it out of reach (not that I would've done better).

Conditioning didn't help much either, but that is more of something we didn't have proof of until seeing how Longo/CampKelly guys do late in games these days.

And the poor line recruiting was a combined problem with poor development across the board.

They all contributed to drag down the Weis teams. They had national title talent at key positions... but nothing else that makes a national title team.

 

[PerthDomer]

I wonder how different the trajectory of the program would have been if Clausen/Tate stayed. Kelly would have probably made the BCS his 1st year, and we would have gotten a Crist who had time to sit and develop. Plus the boost in recruiting if the 1st year had been gangbusters good...

 

[phork]

Crist was never going to amount to anything.

 

[PerthDomer]

He showed promise before knee injuries etc. He'd have been able to run the zone read at least. More a BCS 1st year would have probably helped stop the bleeding in that empty recruiting class.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah, I'm not about to write Crist off either. I'm not saying he didn't struggle in his career, but he showed some real determination and athletic ability early on. Maybe the knee injuries and losing the starting job to Tommy killed his confidence, who can say? I'm always going to support the starter, whoever that may be. I think he could have had a decent career if he hadn't been plagued with the knee injuries. Unfortunately, they did happen though, so that's the way the ball bounced for him.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I would think 2009 with Jimmy at QB Allen at RB Rudolph Tight end and Golden Floyd at receiver had the most expectations of any offense in recent memory

From what I remember the 2009 offense was ranked 8th in the country, even with a below average O line and terrible defense

 

[IrishLion]

we would have gotten a Crist who had time to sit and develop.

Crist was never going to amount to anything.

He showed promise before knee injuries etc. He'd have been able to run the zone read at least.

I don't think development would have helped his ability to throw an accurate 10-yard out. He played lights-out against Michigan State in 2010, but after that he seemed to kind of tread water until his knee injury. I remember watching the Pitt game and it was just boggling my mind that they weren't blowing that game open, but he was missing short throw after short throw. Once he missed one pass, it seemed like his confidence was shot for the duration of the game.

He did run the zone read very well, and actually had pretty good speed around the end. It was always frightening to watch him stay straight up and just let defenders blast him though (much like GAIII). On the play he got injured against Tulsa, he just turned his head to watch the defender blast him along the sideline without lowering a shoulder or anything.