UFOs, Paranormal, Pseudoscience Thread

[IrishLion]

Just trying to understand your position. Are you suggesting that a private party company has invented/developed this technology and kept it secret from the US and global governments all this time? Horses (human), not zebras (alien), correct?

That’s what I thought he was trying to say, but the relevant article to the discussion has a notable whistle blower saying “non-human origin,” so it WOULD be zebras in this case. That’s why it’s interesting.

But we know that @Bishop2b5 hates fun, so we’ll go with “non-biological horses” instead of zebras lol

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Which only supports OMM's take that Bishop isn't interested in what's actually being discussed.

 

[Giddyup]

Show me the ship or didn’t happen.

 

[NDohio]

I was going to weigh in, but then Bishop put in his typical "nothing to see here" and without looking into what's actually being discussed, add-nothing-to-discussion-but-keep-a-closed-mind crap, so why bother.

Maybe because Bishop doesn't speak for many of us and there are several members of this board that value your expertise on this subject (and others).

 

[Old Man Mike]

Very briefly guys: We in the serious side of the UFO research community have seen guys show up with big claims many times in the past. Some of them have known "something"; some of them have known squat or could not deliver. We know that the military has been interested in unauthorized airspace incursions since WWII. We have some of the documents and we still don't know what the foo fighters were/are, despite some heavyweight attempts to collect the sighting data by top authorities. That inside-the-intel-community interest (and vigilance) has been continuous since --- released documents at least prove that. So, it should not be an obvious foolishness to expect the occasional whistleblower from one of these agencies/projects to show up. Grusch claims to be one such. Is he?

Leslie Kean is a good and respected reporter. She organized a significant panel of expert witnesses for the National Press Club some years ago. This included the pilot in the famous Teheran instrument stoppage case --- something leaked by the CIA. The point is that she's dependable. She believes that Grusch is who he says he is (i.e. vis-a-vis his former position in government.) My own UFO research buddies also believe that he is telling the truth ABOUT HIS EMPLOYMENT. This, theoretically only, would give his story a legitimate context. THAT IS ALL WE CAN SAY ABOUT HIS CLAIMS SO FAR.

We remain patient and listening with open minds (unlike our IE troll who is neither open nor actually diving into any depth) and await what the guy will ultimately say, in detail. Note that even he is saying that he himself HAS NOT SEEN any of this stuff nor even any pictures. He is basing his claims on things he has been told by "senior intelligence officials" whose statements he trusts. Who are those guys? What branch and projects do they work for? Will any come forward even to Kean for an anonymous interview? Will any documents or pictures or anything be released?

There is NO reason why the projects he claims to have heard about cannot exist. We have tens of personnel already claiming such brief interactions with such. We know that the USN collected several dozen fleet interaction cases, and sent that data "somewhere." And my friend and the leading Roswell expert, Don Schmitt, constantly tells me of another flicker of the evidence from that 1947 claim. If that happened, then "it" went somewhere. ... lets be less arrogant in our opinions and patiently find out more.

"Once upon a time an explorer was standing in east Africa, and his American friend said --- lets get out of the way, I hear horses coming. The explorer kept his eyes open. It was Zebras. ......

Much later the two were standing elsewhere on the continent. They heard hooves. Here come the horses or the Zebras the first guy said. The explorer kept his eyes open. It was a group of Okapi."

 

[Old Man Mike]

The following is a note from The Anomalist by my research friend who follows these things for that blog:


Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft Of Non-Human Origin The Debrief

Hold on to your proverbial hats, folks! The people who helped break the secret Pentagon UFO activity in December 2017 and two Navy UFO videos have another "blockbuster" for you. If true—and Kean and Blumenthal, supported by The Debrief reporters, have produced what appears a compelling case—this article may supersede the December 2017 revelations as the most noteworthy on UFOs and the Government in memory. It not only has implications for the obvious "Other Intelligence" theme, but for how some military/governments worldwide have for decades been handling the UFO problem—and for possible legal actions against such entities. Christopher Mellon was one of many estimable sources for The Debrief article, and offers his thoughts directly with If the Government Has UFO Crash Materials, It's Time to Reveal Them. Christopher states "I believe it is in our interest to follow the facts of the UAP issue wherever they lead," and the government must openly answer the question of possessing non-human technology for this to happen. But if your hopes for some kind of "D/disclosure" have increased, better read John Greenewald's The CLASSIFIED 'Mosul Orb' UAP Case: A New Chapter in Government Secrecy Tactics Unfolds. If anything, Greenewald's FOIA findings and so-far failures might support a near-total "secrecy curtain" descending onto at least the Pentagon stage. (WM)

 

[Giddyup]

These aliens sending ships across the the gigantic space void and then the fucker crashes in the woods. Okaaaayy.

 

[NDdomer2]

ive always found that treating a troll with passive aggressiveness is a win win for all involved.

 

[Meatloaf]

So this article is basically the alien equivalent of "sources inside the Gug"- which is good because based on Dark Forest theory, we'd be absolutely fucked.

 

[GATTACA!]

These aliens sending ships across the the gigantic space void and then the fucker crashes in the woods. Okaaaayy.

Do any of these little fuckers ever pop out of the fucking atmosphere and say “fuck there’s a horse cock in my ship or a donkey dick”?

 

[Giddyup]

Do any of these little fuckers ever pop out of the fucking atmosphere and say “fuck there’s a horse cock in my ship or a donkey dick”?

 

[bobbyok1]

So the powers that be suddenly want us to believe in alien life forms/UFO's etc.... Consider me not just skeptical, but ready for a major power grab by the globalist elites.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm in the camp that would like to believe that it would happen but am immediately dubious of any claims because the old rule "its never aliens" has worked well so far. The reporters claiming that WaPo didn't pass on the story but "needed more time" is all I need to justify my skepticism.

Let's pretend that the story is absolutely accurate and that they have solid credible evidence that the US has alien technology. And let's say that the reporters are allies to the cause of uncovering the truth. And let's say that major publications were prepping for the story but needing to confirm things before moving forward like the reporters are claiming. In that case there is basically no justifiable reason to not wait on an established news agency to run the story. WaPo or the Times publishes this and its the biggest story in human history. The Debrief makes it so that the average person can't even share the story with friends/family without looking like a crackpot.

 

[bobbyok1]

 

[Bishop2b5]

I was going to weigh in, but then Bishop put in his typical "nothing to see here" and without looking into what's actually being discussed, add-nothing-to-discussion-but-keep-a-closed-mind crap, so why bother.

Mike, you get butthurt every time I question your conclusions, but you never produce anything more than "unexplained phenomena" instead of actual concrete evidence. Where's the beef? Show me something solid, real, and compelling. Some grainy, blurry footage in an age of high quality cameras everywhere isn't compelling. Someone claiming they've seen alien technology isn't the same as actually producing that alien technology. Stop telling me it's aliens every time you can't explain something unusual. I'd love to be convinced and see something actually alien. Produce it. Show us. Until then it's not even close to convincing.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Here's what I'll predict, based on past experience: after all the build up, all the hoopla, all the promises that "this is it!" and the rumors of hidden government facilities, alien technology, "I've seen it" personal accounts, and so on and so on, not a single bit of actual unambiguous evidence will be produced. How do I know this? Because as much as I believe there are intelligent alien races out there, I understand the physics that makes it all but impossible for them to visit us. Because I understand that any alien civilization that could visit us could do so without us detecting them. Because I've heard the UFO community cry wolf so many times in my life that I've lost count. It's always the same: "We have real evidence! I've seen it! Proof is imminent!" And it never happens. Put up or shut up. Seriously. Stop crying wolf and never producing anything unambiguously alien. Weird lights, grainy video, and odd events are just unexplained phenomena, not compelling evidence, let alone proof. Show me the money.

 

[Giddyup]

This stuff is always just a distraction for the masses. Heaven knows they don’t want people to focus on real problems.

 

[Lberry]

Here's what I'll predict, based on past experience: after all the build up, all the hoopla, all the promises that "this is it!" and the rumors of hidden government facilities, alien technology, "I've seen it" personal accounts, and so on and so on, not a single bit of actual unambiguous evidence will be produced. How do I know this? Because as much as I believe there are intelligent alien races out there, I understand the physics that makes it all but impossible for them to visit us. Because I understand that any alien civilization that could visit us could do so without us detecting them. Because I've heard the UFO community cry wolf so many times in my life that I've lost count. It's always the same: "We have real evidence! I've seen it! Proof is imminent!" And it never happens. Put up or shut up. Seriously. Stop crying wolf and never producing anything unambiguously alien. Weird lights, grainy video, and odd events are just unexplained phenomena, not compelling evidence, let alone proof. Show me the money.

I get it, I do. But ever heard of the government? They have a knack for covering things up, especially things that can't seem in control of.

I'm not saying "this is it!", but there's a plausible path here that unfortunately the government may be gatekeeping, and it wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm with Grey. I want to believe, but still nothing concrete has been provided. Even if the government is covering up, after all of these years, you think something physical would have "sneaked out" and be presented by now. I've also wondered why life forms that have figured out space travel would travel this far and never make contact?

 

[Giddyup]

Funny how the “government” is always the one finding this stuff.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I get it, I do. But ever heard of the government? They have a knack for covering things up, especially things that can't seem in control of.

I'm not saying "this is it!", but there's a plausible path here that unfortunately the government may be gatekeeping, and it wouldn't be the first time.

The problem with this is that the aliens would have to have only made contact with the US. That seems pretty unlikely. And if they made contact with multiple governments, how likely do you think it would be that they all could keep it a secret for decades? And why would alien visitors just reveal themselves to a government agency instead of landing on the infield of the Indy 500 or in Central Park, e.g.?

As for the technical and physical issues making interstellar travel unlikely and thus alien visitors unlikely, read this from a few months ago:

UFOs, Paranormal, Pseudoscience Thread

Like Irish#1, I'd love to believe. Nobody would be happier to see proof and for mankind to make contact with an intelligent, benign alien race, but I know the technical and physical problems that make it all but impossible and very unlikely that any of the stuff we've seen over the past century is connected in any way to alien intelligence.

 

[greyhammer90]

Funny how the “government” is always the one finding this stuff.

Yep. It's not impossible, but it's just all a bit fanciful. The alien race:

• Is advanced enough to travel to Earth
• Is either capable of expending the immense resources/time for less than LS travel, OR capable of breaking the light speed barrier somehow, OR able to break our understanding of dimensions. This technological leap would almost certainly make them indistinguishable from a higher power.
• Is apparently disinterested in making contact or is unable to make contact, and are content with observing us.
• Doesn't do a perfect job of staying hidden because individual people see them, but do well enough to never allow a decent recording despite everyone having 1080p cameras on their person and on dash cams.
• Crashes occasionally despite the obvious technological advancement, and those crashes lead to alien fatalities.
• Allows the government of every location they crash in to keep what they drop.
• Only crash in unoccupied or rural areas where the local government can hide the crash and any evidence.

Then you have to assume that not just the US government, but EVERY government on Earth has teams of scientists and containment personnel prepared to cover-up any sighting or crash quickly and quietly. That every government has a near 100% success rate on said containment, a near 100% success rate on squelching whistleblowers and bystanders for the biggest coverup in human history, and an absolute 100% success rate on the smuggling of any physical evidence for the biggest cover up in human history.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I'm with Grey. I want to believe, but still nothing concrete has been provided. Even if the government is covering up, after all of these years, you think something physical would have "sneaked out" and be presented by now. I've also wondered why life forms that have figured out space travel would travel this far and never make contact?

Why do you want to believe?

 

[greyhammer90]

Why do you want to believe?

Mostly exciting but the bad side is...

Good:

* Interesting, flat out
* If they're really friendly, things are about to go really well for us.
* Proof we're not alone
* Good to know being a space traveling civilization is possible.

Bad:
* If they're hostile or maliciously indifferent that's probably a wrap for the species.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Mostly exciting but the bad side is...

Good:

* Interesting, flat out
* If they're really friendly, things are about to go really well for us.
* Proof we're not alone
* Good to know being a space traveling civilization is possible.

Bad:
* If they're hostile or maliciously indifferent that's probably a wrap for the species.

Yep it could get really scary. Like War of the Worlds, Independence Day or E.T.

 

[Lberry]

Yep. It's not impossible, but it's just all a bit fanciful. The alien race:

• Is advanced enough to travel to Earth
• Is either capable of expending the immense resources/time for less than LS travel, OR capable of breaking the light speed barrier somehow, OR able to break our understanding of dimensions. This technological leap would almost certainly make them indistinguishable from a higher power.
• Is apparently disinterested in making contact or is unable to make contact, and are content with observing us.
• Doesn't do a perfect job of staying hidden because individual people see them, but do well enough to never allow a decent recording despite everyone having 1080p cameras on their person and on dash cams.
• Crashes occasionally despite the obvious technological advancement, and those crashes lead to alien fatalities.
• Allows the government of every location they crash in to keep what they drop.
• Only crash in unoccupied or rural areas where the local government can hide the crash and any evidence.

Then you have to assume that not just the US government, but EVERY government on Earth has teams of scientists and containment personnel prepared to cover-up any sighting or crash quickly and quietly. That every government has a near 100% success rate on said containment, a near 100% success rate on squelching whistleblowers and bystanders for the biggest coverup in human history, and an absolute 100% success rate on the smuggling of any physical evidence for the biggest cover up in human history.

I don't disagree with this skepticism, it's on point and very possible if not likely. But I think bullet #1 and #2 don't say anything. It's likely if they fully exposed themselves, it would be indistinguishable.

Bullet 3, perhaps they need resources from earth we haven't figured out. Perhaps their interest isn't in us but under us? Lots of people behind their apparent appearances concentrated near high quantities of quartz and granite. Why? No idea. True? No idea, but definitely heard this many times throughout years.

Bullet 4, there's plenty of videos out there of flying crafts in ways/speeds we cannot do. It's just never part of MSM content. And on bullet #4, watch this video, starting at the 3:50 mark. Just an example that things get very strange, technology speaking. Can anyone explain the 3:50 mark?

Bullet 5, that's such an impossible question to ask if they're so slick, how do accidents happen. Capable beyond our understanding does not equal perfect, however. We think we're so slick but don't have a clue how the pyramids were built. Different times (spaces?) have different pros and cons.

Bullet 6, it's the government. They show up when somethings found. Anyone look into the farmer's accounts of the Roswell crash?

Bullet 7, again, they very well may have a reason for staying rural. Maybe the resources they want aren't in sky scrapers. Maybe they want to be low key. There's no way we can guess from a zillion miles away. And they do show up in cities (Phoenix lights, Philadelphia, etc.).

I'm not disagreeing but your response seems zipped up but it's purely speculative, with all due respect.

 

[greyhammer90]

I don't disagree with this skepticism, it's on point and very possible if not likely. But I think bullet #1 and #2 don't say anything. It's likely if they fully exposed themselves, it would be indistinguishable.

Bullet 3, perhaps they need resources from earth we haven't figured out. Perhaps their interest isn't in us but under us? Lots of people behind their apparent appearances concentrated near high quantities of quartz and granite. Why? No idea. True? No idea, but definitely heard this many times throughout years.

Bullet 4, there's plenty of videos out there of flying crafts in ways/speeds we cannot do. It's just never part of MSM content. And on bullet #4, watch this video, starting at the 3:50 mark. Just an example that things get very strange, technology speaking. Can anyone explain the 3:50 mark?

Bullet 5, that's such an impossible question to ask if they're so slick, how do accidents happen. Capable beyond our understanding does not equal perfect, however. We think we're so slick but don't have a clue how the pyramids were built. Different times (spaces?) have different pros and cons.

Bullet 6, it's the government. They show up when somethings found. Anyone look into the farmer's accounts of the Roswell crash?

Bullet 7, again, they very well may have a reason for staying rural. Maybe the resources they want aren't in sky scrapers. Maybe they want to be low key. There's no way we can guess from a zillion miles away. And they do show up in cities (Phoenix lights, Philadelphia, etc.).

I'm not disagreeing but your response seems zipped up but it's purely speculative, with all due respect.

Sure it's speculative, but the whole thing is speculative. It's just as likely it's ourselves from the future checking in based on what we know. We're already breaking fundamental physics so why not? If anything that would make more sense since there would be an obvious directive to not be seen or observed. The point of points 1 and 2 is to emphasize how advanced these things would be and to point out how weird the other errors are.

 

[Lberry]

Sure it's speculative, but the whole thing is speculative. It's just as likely it's ourselves from the future checking in based on what we know. We're already breaking fundamental physics so why not? If anything that would make more sense since there would be an obvious directly to not be seen or observed. The point of points 1 and 2 is to emphasize how advanced these things would be and to point out how weird the other errors are.

And on point 1 or 2, I don't think figuring out space travel means they're infinitely smarter than us. Were the Egyptians infinitely smarter than us since this built things we cannot understand or recreate? In some ways probably, in others definitely not.

Perhaps they have access to elements that we just don't have here that make travel an brainer, and they have their fair share of shit heads too.

I don't know but I don't think your points close the books is all, no more than my responses do either for that matter.

 

[calvegas04]

What would the odds be if it is true that we can reverse engineer any off world tech?

 

[greyhammer90]

And on point 1 or 2, I don't think figuring out space travel means they're infinitely smarter than us. Were the Egyptians infinitely smarter than us since this built things we cannot understand or recreate? In some ways probably, in others definitely not.

Perhaps they have access to elements that we just don't have here that make travel an brainer, and they have their fair share of shit heads too.

I don't know but I don't think your points close the books is all, no more than my responses do either for that matter.

As I said in my original post, "not impossible but fanciful." It could be aliens, it could be future us, it could be basically anything. I just think one would have to be pretty stubborn to not admit that the most likely explanation is that it's people searching for explanations to odd coincidences or unexplained phenomena and falling back on a explanation that is congruent with the pop culture they've been exposed since childhood.