TURF - it's official

Veritate Duce Progredi

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We really need to put protective padding on all sharp edges, including the brick walls in the back of the endzones, there is no reason we should expose athletes to potential injuries due to stadium design. That is something that has bothered me for a while now.
 

wizards8507

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We really need to put protective padding on all sharp edges, including the brick walls in the back of the endzones, there is no reason we should expose athletes to potential injuries due to stadium design. That is something that has bothered me for a while now.

There's a ton of space around our endzones. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone get close.
 

ResLife Hero

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Base layer <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TurfWatch?src=hash">#TurfWatch</a> <a href="http://t.co/Xdddz40qBU">pic.twitter.com/Xdddz40qBU</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/statuses/491271184164466688">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Top layer <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TurfWatch?src=hash">#TurfWatch</a> <a href="http://t.co/rsMDPTXGhg">pic.twitter.com/rsMDPTXGhg</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/statuses/491271299075817472">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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ResLife Hero

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Are the graphics in the corners new, or have I just never noticed with the band there?

I've never had seats with a good view of that particular wall. Anyone know? Looks like they've got the "We are ND" right in front of the student section.
 

ulukinatme

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We really need to put protective padding on all sharp edges, including the brick walls in the back of the endzones, there is no reason we should expose athletes to potential injuries due to stadium design. That is something that has bothered me for a while now.

There's a ton of space around our endzones. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone get close.

Wizards is right. It's not like this is Wrigley Field where a football game can pose some danger to the athletes due to the field constraints. When you consider that the location of the goal post is roughly where the end zone is finished, and you eyeball distance between that and the concrete wall using the construction workers as reference, you can see that our athletes are in no danger.

They're going to be slowing their speed before they ever get close to the back of the endzone in most cases (To make sure they stay in bounds on a catch). In rare cases where they may be sprinting into the endzone on a long pass they still have time to slow down well before they reach the concrete wall.

Theres actually a shorter distance I believe between the sideline and the side wall on each side, and I've seen a few players get somewhat close when running an out pattern going full speed. However, in rare cases where this happens the athletes still typically have time to slow down, not to mention in most cases theres usually a throng of allies or opposing players on the sideline to slow a player down.
 

wizards8507

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Cutting out numbers and hash marks as we wait for the second top layer to arrive <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TurfWatch?src=hash">#TurfWatch</a> <a href="http://t.co/0S6JtHGoPw">pic.twitter.com/0S6JtHGoPw</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/statuses/491272766809579520">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Irish Insanity

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Will they be selling any of the excess cutoff of cuttouts? I'd take the green that's removed from the 50.
 

Irish8248

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no need to worry -- theres a protective barrier before the wall

tate.gif
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Wizards is right. It's not like this is Wrigley Field where a football game can pose some danger to the athletes due to the field constraints. When you consider that the location of the goal post is roughly where the end zone is finished, and you eyeball distance between that and the concrete wall using the construction workers as reference, you can see that our athletes are in no danger.

They're going to be slowing their speed before they ever get close to the back of the endzone in most cases (To make sure they stay in bounds on a catch). In rare cases where they may be sprinting into the endzone on a long pass they still have time to slow down well before they reach the concrete wall.

Theres actually a shorter distance I believe between the sideline and the side wall on each side, and I've seen a few players get somewhat close when running an out pattern going full speed. However, in rare cases where this happens the athletes still typically have time to slow down, not to mention in most cases theres usually a throng of allies or opposing players on the sideline to slow a player down.

Rewatch the spring game. The play where Amir was streaking up the seam wide open with Farley out of position and Golson over throws him, Amir met the wall with plenty of speed and, should he have stumbled near the end, would've went face first into the wall.
 

NCND

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How could someone look at the field in 2013 and the Spring Game this year and still make comments like that?
 

woolybug25

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Rewatch the spring game. The play where Amir was streaking up the seam wide open with Farley out of position and Golson over throws him, Amir met the wall with plenty of speed and, should he have stumbled near the end, would've went face first into the wall.

I can't think of one single player that ever crashed into the wall in decades of watching games.
 

ulukinatme

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I feel like ND fans take crazy pills sometimes. The comments on that Facebook page from the pro-grass people....holy fuck. How can people be so stubborn and fail to look at the facts?
 
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wizards8507

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How could someone look at the field in 2013 and the Spring Game this year and still make comments like that?

1. Not everyone sees "less then perfect green" as an atrocity to be solved.

2. The spring game was made to intentionally look as bad as possible to justify this.
 

Rhode Irish

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1. Not everyone sees "less then perfect green" as an atrocity to be solved.

2. The spring game was made to intentionally look as bad as possible to justify this.

lol best conspiracy ever

This caring about the playing surface is a kind of stupid unique to ND, with the slavish devotion to keeping things the same whether those things actually constitute "tradition" or not. I don't have any personal preference on the playing surface, but at least I understand the arguments in favor of turf. There are no good arguments for grass other than stubbornness and perhaps a misplaced sense of tradition (which we all like and appreciate) or weird fetishization of grass.

Grass itself is not a tradition. Things aren't tradition just because they've always been a certain way. Tradition requires the additional ingredients of choice and purpose. Clinging to a grass surface would be like clinging to dirt road and objecting to them ever being paved. Tradition is cool insofar as it doesn't prevent progress and making things better. Grass is no more tradition than dirt roads once were.

The whole idea of William F Buckley conservatism in the context of college football (mindlessly standing athwart history and yelling "STOP!") is misplaced, and I get the feeling that people don't realize they're doing more harm than good.
 
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IrishLion

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I feel like ND fans take crazy pills sometimes. The comments on that Facebook page from the pro-grass people....holy fuck. How can people be so stubborn and fail to look at the facts?

My favorite is the guy that links turf to cancer... and yet tells a guy that links football and concussions that his argument is invalid, and that turf/cancer is way more pressing at the moment.

I had to log in and comment on a few posts, but I stayed away from that one. The internet stupid was too pungent.
 

IrishLion

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1. Not everyone sees "less then perfect green" as an atrocity to be solved.

2. The spring game was made to intentionally look as bad as possible to justify this.

I don't find a brown field to be an atrocity. My favorite playing surface in high school was bermuda grass (so soft!), but the field was ALWAYS brown.

What I DO find to be an atrocity is high-level athletes struggling for consistent footing on their home playing surface. That needed to be solved, and now it will be.

As to your second point, I actually don't doubt that haha. I think it was an intelligent decision when considering presentation for the decision.
 
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koonja

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I think once everyone sees how tasteful and awesome it looks, we won't hear much about the change.
 

IrishLion

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I think once everyone sees how tasteful and awesome it looks, we won't hear much about the change.

You just don't get it koon. Fake grass is an affront to ND, to the Virgin Mary, and to God Himself... actually just make that the whole Holy Trinity to be sure. Football isn't supposed to played on plastic, especially when artificial turf has been linked to cancer. Consistency in the playing surface doesn't mean anything, nor do the opinions of the players, nor does the consistent failure of mother nature and the grounds crew to cooperate in South Bend. Despite all obstacles and reasoning, fieldturf has no place in the modern world. Even Knute Rockne himself, who might be the greatest innovator in college football history, would turn a blind eye to this crime of tradition.
 

wizards8507

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lol best conspiracy ever
I'm not the only one who's suggested it. Even pro-turf people pointed it out in the Blue-Gold thread. I call it "sneaky," they call it a testament to Swarbrick's savvy.

This caring about the playing surface is a kind of stupid unique to ND, with the slavish devotion to keeping things the same whether those things actually constitute "tradition" or not. I don't have any personal preference on the playing surface, but at least I understand the arguments in favor of turf. There are no good arguments for grass other than stubbornness and perhaps a misplaced sense of tradition (which we all like and appreciate) or weird fetishization of grass.
You have to be fair though. The "hardcore" turf people go just as overboard as the "hardcore" grass people. For every "Knute Rockne is rolling in his grave" guy, there's a "we'll never land another 5* recruit with natural grass" guy.

Grass itself is not a tradition. Things aren't tradition just because they've always been a certain way. Tradition requires the additional ingredients of choice and purpose.
There's a difference between "tradition" and "traditional." Grass is not tradition, you're right, but it is traditional.

Clinging to a grass surface would be like clinging to dirt road and objecting to them ever being paved. Tradition is cool insofar as it doesn't prevent progress and making things better. Grass is no more tradition than dirt roads once were.
Sometimes the appeal of something is the fact that it has resisted those forces that are justified as "progress" and "making things better." A propane grill heats faster and more consistently but I prefer cooking on charcoal. A modern razor will give you a clean, smooth shave without fear of cutting yourself, but many people prefer a straight edge. Sanforization of cotton allowed for true fit "pre-shrunk" fabrics, but there's a movement in some circles dedicated to restoring the culture of "raw" denim. Some people would object to the paving of a dirt road for the simple reason that they prefer the aesthetic. There's something to be said about a connection to the past for no other reason than to be connected to the past.

All that said, I frankly don't give a shit what they play on. Given the choice, I would have preferred grass but I'm not getting worked up over it. I just can't stand the arrogance some of you posters have towards those who feel nostalgic for the traditional playing surface. We get it. You don't feel the same nostalgia, and nostalgia isn't rooted in logic or a list of reasons you can enumerate on why grass should stay, but that doesn't make it illegitimate.

You just don't get it koon. Fake grass is an affront to ND, to the Virgin Mary, and to God Himself... actually just make that the whole Holy Trinity to be sure. Football isn't supposed to played on plastic, especially when artificial turf has been linked to cancer. Consistency in the playing surface doesn't mean anything, nor do the opinions of the players, nor does the consistent failure of mother nature and the grounds crew to cooperate in South Bend. Despite all obstacles and reasoning, fieldturf has no place in the modern world. Even Knute Rockne himself, who might be the greatest innovator in college football history, would turn a blind eye to this crime of tradition.
See that's the kind of shit I'm talking about. If someone said that "fake grass is an affront to the Virgin Mary," then by all means call them out. The hyperbole you're presenting mischaracterizes the general feeling among those who prefer grass as irrational and, frankly, ridiculous.
 
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Rhode Irish

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Wiz- all of that is fine. You can use a charcoal grill or a straight-edge razor until your heart is content. Hell, I still carry a 2-iron. But in the case of turf, it is different because you and I don't have to play on it so our preference doesn't matter. That's the difference between you and me having our things that we cling to and insisting that someone else be subject to our whims.

As far as pro-turf people being crazy, I honestly have not followed this closely enough to know. But to the extent anyone gets upset about this in either direction, that person is clearly misusing his energy.
 

wizards8507

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Wiz- all of that is fine. You can use a charcoal grill or a straight-edge razor until your heart is content. Hell, I still carry a 2-iron. But in the case of turf, it is different because you and I don't have to play on it so our preference doesn't matter. That's the difference between you and me having our things that we cling to and insisting that someone else be subject to our whims.
Well that's fair too. I can say "yeah, I think it sucks that they got rid of the natural grass," but I don't expect Swarbrick to make any of his decisions based on what I bitch about on the internet.
 
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