Trump Presidency

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TorontoGold

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The fact that were even talking about summer riots a week after a President encouraged a fucking insurrection is really bizarre. The whataboutisms are beyond useless.

Because, apparently, the Proud Boys (just a few bad apples!) were inspired(?) by the BLM/Antifa protests in the summer and weren't inspired by Trump and his surrogates (Take the fight to the streets, Mike Pence is a traitor, the Big Lie etc.). It's quite simple logic!
 

arahop

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If you use a few brain cells and 2+2 still equals 4 in your reality, you can be opposed to any citizen breaking our laws regardless of their cause or motivation. The people who stormed the capitol should be on the same cell block as the people who attacked the federal courthouse in Portland this summer.

See how easy that is?

It's not whataboutism. It's holding everyone to the same standards.

Gotcha.
BLM protests+{rioting/Looting/violence}
Incited: led/fuelled by racial injustice/unrest/leading to violence that wasn't incited by Biden or the left
=
{Stoping the Steal} Angry misinformed/terrorists
Incited by #45/far right extremists/marching violently into the Chamber of Commerce to Kill/harm American Democracy that trump just sat and watched on TV hiding in his bunker: that he,lawyers, sons, loyalists,hyped at the perfect time..

Where in US history has an attack on our own Country been led by our very own President.

I don't see them as the same. But I'm not easily brainwashed.
Can you please refer to anywhere that I condoned violence during the BLM protests?
You won't find it. Don't pin your alternate reality justifications on me.


We know what you stand for bub
 
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Ndaccountant

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Gotcha.
BLM protests+{rioting/Looting/violence}
Incited: led/fuelled by racial injustice/unrest/leading to violence that wasn't incited by Biden or the left
=
{Stoping the Steal} Angry misinformed/terrorists
Incited by #45/far right extremists/marching violently into the Chamber of Commerce to Kill/harm American Democracy that trump just sat and watched on TV hiding in his bunker: that he,lawyers, sons, loyalists,hyped at the perfect time..

Where in US history has an attack on our own Country been led by our very own President.

I don't see them as the same. But I'm not easily brainwashed.
Can you please refer to anywhere that I condoned violence during the BLM protests?
You won't find it. Don't pin your alternate reality justifications on me.


We know what you stand for bub

He said they both should be charged and convicted. They all should. The ones who acted in DC should get a stiffer sentence. Is that better for you?
 

arahop

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He said they both should be charged and convicted. They all should. The ones who acted in DC should get a stiffer sentence. Is that better for you?

Nah, I'm having a hard time understanding this still being used as validated justification by all that keep bringing that up.
It mirrors the views of people who justify/ or don't understand the severity. Especially since others and myself haven't condoned violence in any protest.

This was the very fire trump had been adding logs to for a long time now.

I don't share that belief system of side that others keep arguing.

Can any of the sympathizers on here answer whether or not they feel if trump and his months/years/Stop the steal rally/misinformation, incited the attack last week?

And why you would rather support authoritarian rule/fascist action over Democracy or Socialism?
 
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Old Man Mike

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Arahop: I'm fine with you, especially lately now that you've become more like a rational information-researched poster a la Cack or Legacy. My comment was about a persistent cacophony projector.
 

Ndaccountant

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Nah, I'm having a hard time understanding this still being used as validated justification by all that keep bringing that up.
It mirrors the views of people who justify/ or don't understand the severity. Especially since others and myself haven't condoned violence in any protest.


This was the very fire trump had been adding logs to for a long time now.

I don't share that belief system of side that others keep arguing.

Can any of the sympathizers on here answer whether or not they feel if trump and his months/years/Stop the steal rally/misinformation, incited the attack last week?

And why you would rather support authoritarian rule/fascist action over Democracy or Socialism?

I am not trying to put words in people's mouth here, but I think looking at one without considering the other isn't about justification, but rather connecting the dots. By the way, I think there are many, many, other dots to connect.

I posted earlier about how emotion and polarization has been the fuel to political fire. That wasn't by accident, it was by design. Our political system was hijacked decades ago and we are now bearing the fruit. Combine that with the impact of a pandemic and you have quite the powder keg.

Did Trump push people over the edge? I think so (but you were asking Trump supporters, so I don't qualify as I never voted for the guy). But he didn't walk them to the edge. They were there already and they were ready to jump and would have jumped at some point. That isn't a defense of him by the way, as he could have tried to stop them from jumping at that moment. But if you think Trump is the reason for the violence, I think you miss the forest for the trees.
 
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Cackalacky2.0

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I see it that the Tea Party is the part of the GOP that has morphed into MAGA. Cruz, Meadows, Jordan,Nunes, Gaetz, et al enabled and embraced Trump. Sensible Republicans like Romney are a dying breed. The GOPs historical embracing of the disparate groups it now comprises is the reason. Trump is it’s realization.
 
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Polish Leppy 22

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Gotcha.
BLM protests+{rioting/Looting/violence}
Incited: led/fuelled by racial injustice/unrest/leading to violence that wasn't incited by Biden or the left
=
{Stoping the Steal} Angry misinformed/terrorists
Incited by #45/far right extremists/marching violently into the Chamber of Commerce to Kill/harm American Democracy that trump just sat and watched on TV hiding in his bunker: that he,lawyers, sons, loyalists,hyped at the perfect time..

Where in US history has an attack on our own Country been led by our very own President.

I don't see them as the same. But I'm not easily brainwashed.
Can you please refer to anywhere that I condoned violence during the BLM protests?
You won't find it. Don't pin your alternate reality justifications on me.


We know what you stand for bub

Clearly you don't know what I stand for because you can't comprehend what the hell I'm saying here lol.

Your hatred of Trump is making this harder on you than it should be, as the accountant tried to point out above.

What I stand for, bub, is everyone/ anyone who breaks our laws paying the consequences NO MATTER THEIR MOTIVATION. Without using the word Trump please tell me how this doesn't connect for you.
 

NorthDakota

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I see it that the Tea Party is the part of the GOP that has morphed into MAGA. Cruz, Meadows, Jordan,Nunes, Gaetz, et al enabled and embraced Trump. Sensible Republicans like Romney are a dying breed. The GOPs historical embracing of the disparate groups it now comprises is the reason. Trump is it’s realization.

Not sure one can say the "sensible Republicans are dying" when the party just won a bunch of house races by running more moderates, minorities, and women.
 

Legacy

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After Charlottesville, Dylann Roof in Columbia, Pittsburgh, El Paso and Dayton as well as all the testimony from the FBI and DHS and reports to Congress on domestic terrorism that federal funding would have increased.

Ok, maybe not.

In June, 2019, acting secretary of Homeland Security, Kevin McAleenan, told Congress that “white supremacist extremist violence” is “an evolving and increasingly concerning threat.”

At that time, the FBI has about 5,000 terrorism-related investigations open, including 850 related to domestic terrorism, according to the official. About 1,000 are related to ISIS or other affiliated groups, and another 1,000 are for homegrown violent extremism.

Under President Obama, the Office of Targeted Violence and Terrorism Prevention, including “racially motivated violence.”, had about 40 full-time staff and a $24-million annual budget, according to Nate Snyder, an Obama administration counterterrorism official. The office had been reduced to fewer than 10 full-time employees and a budget below $3 million.

Congress due to testimony from our law enforcement were aware of this dramatic rise in domestic terrorism. Trump attributed those mass killings to mental illness.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Not sure one can say the "sensible Republicans are dying" when the party just won a bunch of house races by running more moderates, minorities, and women.

It’s an incoherent mess. The party cannot claim moral high ground, it has zero credibility on the economy, science, and justice, or democracy in general considering what they all allowed to happen under Trump. There is very little that is sensible about any of them in Congress rn. The fact that 2 QAnon lunatics made it to Congress is terrifying.
 

Ndaccountant

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I see it that the Tea Party is the part of the GOP that has morphed into MAGA. Cruz, Meadows, Jordan,Nunes, Gaetz, et al enabled and embraced Trump. Sensible Republicans like Romney are a dying breed. The GOPs historical embracing of the disparate groups it now comprises is the reason. Trump is it’s realization.

I think the answer to that is both yes and no. First the no. The tea party was born out of frustration of lack of fiscal conservatism. Over time, it morphed just like any other movement. But the rant by ole Ricky on CNBC that was the catalyst was far different than what it ended up being.....a ploy for politicians to keep their job and wield control.


But for the Trump base, I will lean on this quote that should be familiar to all...

You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Throughout the history of humans, we have been driven by what resources are available to us and in what quantity. The more scarce the resource becomes, the more extreme the actions are to hold onto that resource.

In the context of Obama's quote, the resources and seemingly growing scarcity of economic resources. People are scared and will do whatever it takes to keep with the way of life they know. Many people often chide that lifestyle (guns, religion or otherwise), which puts them in an even more defensive spot. Sure, some of them may truly believe in white supremacy. But, IMO, that isn't the driving force and the more people dismiss it as purely racism, is going to miss the opportunity to prevent it from happening again.

And happen again it will. Mark my words. I know a mid-term election in 2022 going heavy R is hardly going out on a limb. But there is a reason all those millions of people voted Trump. They seek the order that comes with someone like Trump. They view R's as those who seek order. It appears that the agenda for Biden is going to be social progress, social change. In other words, not the "order" those who voted for Trump seek. R's will pounce on that fear...and it will both carry them to election wins and further distance R's and D's. People will again mistake bigotry and racism for the psychological issues plaguing so many Americans. Trump is gone, hopefully for good. But the fear still lives on, which is the most important thing for understanding what is likely to come. Which is why I said the top of this rambling post that the Tea Party and Maga were both linked and not linked. What is linking them in the end is those who prey on the fear.
 
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Ndaccountant

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Not sure one can say the "sensible Republicans are dying" when the party just won a bunch of house races by running more moderates, minorities, and women.

We will see which way leadership takes the party for 2022 and 2024. But much of the moderation you speak of is happening in very defined locations, that have shared seemingly similar economic qualities that differ greatly from the true R base at the moment. To win in those select spots, they need to be moderate. But those are the elections that "swing" control in the House or at the state level, not the base of the party. There is a sizable difference at the moment.
 

Legacy

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I think the answer to that is both yes and no. First the no. The tea party was born out of frustration of lack of fiscal conservatism. Over time, it morphed just like any other movement. But the rant by ole Ricky on CNBC that was the catalyst was far different than what it ended up being.....a ploy for politicians to keep their job and wield control.


But for the Trump base, I will lean on this quote that should be familiar to all...



Throughout the history of humans, we have been driven by what resources are available to us and in what quantity. The more scarce the resource becomes, the more extreme the actions are to hold onto that resource.

In the context of Obama's quote, the resources and seemingly growing scarcity of economic resources. People are scared and will do whatever it takes to keep with the way of life they know. Many people often chide that lifestyle (guns, religion or otherwise), which puts them in an even more defensive spot. Sure, some of them may truly believe in white supremacy. But, IMO, that isn't the driving force and the more people dismiss it as purely racism, is going to miss the opportunity to prevent it from happening again.

And happen again it will. Mark my words. I know a mid-term election in 2022 going heavy R is hardly going out on a limb. But there is a reason all those millions of people voted Trump. They seek the order that comes with someone like Trump. They view R's as those who seek order. It appears that the agenda for Biden is going to be social progress, social change. In other words, not the "order" those who voted for Trump seek. R's will pounce on that fear...and it will both carry them to election wins and further distance R's and D's. People will again mistake bigotry and racism for the phycological issues plaguing so many Americans. Trump is gone, hopefully for good. But the fear still lives on, which is the most important thing for understanding what is likely to come. Which is why I said the top of this rambling post that the Tea Party and Maga were both linked and not linked. What is linking them in the end is those who prey on the fear.

There really is no excuse for Americans whether frustrated, loss of jobs or "resources", perceived slights against their lifestyle, etc. to justify abandonment of American values and rebel against government and develop the kind of hatred that could result in murders of our law enforcement and federal representatives.

You have well defined the seditious element and its roots in our country that results in such hatred and drives domestic terrorists violence.
 
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NorthDakota

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There really is no excuse for Americans whether frustrated, loss of jobs or "resources", perceived slights against their lifestyle, etc. to justify abandonment of American values and rebel against government and develop the kind of hatred that could result in murders of our law enforcement and federal representatives.

You have well defined the seditious element and its roots in our country that results in such hatred and drives domestic terrorists violence.

I dont think he's talking about those people. I think he's talking about rank and file people rather than outliers. Example: Joe Tea Party in small town Nebraska, not Paramilitary Pete currently waiting for his preliminary hearing with the Feds.
 

arahop

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I sometimes wonder if Dems were predominantly Pro Life, if that would be the end of the GOP. The end for me is the 147 GOPs who still contested the Election even after the attack last week.
 

NDRock

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I think the answer to that is both yes and no. First the no. The tea party was born out of frustration of lack of fiscal conservatism. Over time, it morphed just like any other movement. But the rant by ole Ricky on CNBC that was the catalyst was far different than what it ended up being.....a ploy for politicians to keep their job and wield control.


But for the Trump base, I will lean on this quote that should be familiar to all...



Throughout the history of humans, we have been driven by what resources are available to us and in what quantity. The more scarce the resource becomes, the more extreme the actions are to hold onto that resource.

In the context of Obama's quote, the resources and seemingly growing scarcity of economic resources. People are scared and will do whatever it takes to keep with the way of life they know. Many people often chide that lifestyle (guns, religion or otherwise), which puts them in an even more defensive spot. Sure, some of them may truly believe in white supremacy. But, IMO, that isn't the driving force and the more people dismiss it as purely racism, is going to miss the opportunity to prevent it from happening again.

And happen again it will. Mark my words. I know a mid-term election in 2022 going heavy R is hardly going out on a limb. But there is a reason all those millions of people voted Trump. They seek the order that comes with someone like Trump. They view R's as those who seek order. It appears that the agenda for Biden is going to be social progress, social change. In other words, not the "order" those who voted for Trump seek. R's will pounce on that fear...and it will both carry them to election wins and further distance R's and D's. People will again mistake bigotry and racism for the psychological issues plaguing so many Americans. Trump is gone, hopefully for good. But the fear still lives on, which is the most important thing for understanding what is likely to come. Which is why I said the top of this rambling post that the Tea Party and Maga were both linked and not linked. What is linking them in the end is those who prey on the fear.

The fear mongering is a big issue I have with the Right (and I’m fairly conservative on many to most issues). Living near Georgia, we get a lot of their political ads. Between the Green Qanon Congresswoman and the two Senate candidates, it was pretty disgusting. Nothing but negative fear induced ads. It’s sad that their only platform is the left are radical communists. I guess it works which is why they make those ads.
 

NorthDakota

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I sometimes wonder if Dems were predominantly Pro Life, if that would be the end of the GOP. The end for me is the 147 GOPs who still contested the Election even after the attack last week.

If Democrats were predominantly pro life, they'd lose an enormous chunk of their base and 90% of their talented politicians. The GOP would suddenly win in places they hadn't won in several decades.

Likewise, if the GOP became pro-abortion, they'd be dealing with their own dilemma there.
 

Legacy

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I dont think he's talking about those people. I think he's talking about rank and file people rather than outliers. Example: Joe Tea Party in small town Nebraska, not Paramilitary Pete currently waiting for his preliminary hearing with the Feds.

There's a lot of people in difficult situations with real struggles and suffering who once believed in the American dream and were raised with Christian values. Hard working Americans. People we know or knew. Shut out in a changing economy that impacts their childrens' prospects.

From NDaccountants post:
But there is a reason all those millions of people voted Trump. They seek the order that comes with someone like Trump. They view R's as those who seek order. It appears that the agenda for Biden is going to be social progress, social change. In other words, not the "order" those who voted for Trump seek. R's will pounce on that fear...and it will both carry them to election wins and further distance R's and D's. People will again mistake bigotry and racism for the psychological issues plaguing so many Americans. Trump is gone, hopefully for good. But the fear still lives on, which is the most important thing for understanding what is likely to come. Which is why I said the top of this rambling post that the Tea Party and Maga were both linked and not linked. What is linking them in the end is those who prey on the fear.

I'm sure that if McCain had not voted against ending the ACA any antagonism from the loss of their health insurance could have been blamed on the Dems. Taking away any safety net programs like Medicaid with work requirements would have been blamed on someone besides those doing it. Job losses? Immigrants, Wall Street. Sources of information? Fake news.

The growth of Paramilitary Petes from four to six years ago comes from what NDacc is saying. The message to take up arms against their country to take back America has to fall on ground made fertile not only by disillusionment but by promises by the unscrupulous in order to evolve into the hatred we see. Not everyone of those who want order and are fearful turn to that violence.

The process of radicalization is similar whether domestic or foreign. Hopefully, we will see ills that contribute to this development lessened and the perpetrators who aim to twist our core values and turn us against each other pursued.

Looks like Lauren Boebert is a Member of the following Caucuses - or have the positions in these:

-Co-Chair of the Congressional Second Amendment Caucus
-House Freedom Caucus
-Vice-Chairman of the Congressional Western Caucus
-Ex-Officio Steering Member on the Republican Study Committee
-Values Action Team

Her Committee assignments have not yet been made by the Rep leadership.
 
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arahop

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If Democrats were predominantly pro life, they'd lose an enormous chunk of their base and 90% of their talented politicians. The GOP would suddenly win in places they hadn't won in several decades.

Likewise, if the GOP became pro-abortion, they'd be dealing with their own dilemma there.

That's a good point.
 

Irish#1

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I expect Biden to restore and increase funding for federal law enforcement for domestic terrorism, restore the funding for police forces Trump stopped, and increase funding to fight these highly organized terrorist and paramilitary groups. The FBI and DHS will trace their roots but it will take some time. Shut down their communication and funding sources. Until recently they also used PayPal, etc for transactions. Expect Congress to be behind this in a big way and anything else he wants. Good idea to lockdown the prisons prior to the Inauguration.

He most certainly will, along with a lot of other programs.


OMM if you're referring to me? Please let me know where I was out of line. I'm fine with NEG reps. No worries there. I'm just not going to entertain "whataboutisms" that belittle and make light of what happened and to what IMO undoubtedly fueled those terrorists.

What should we refer to those that marched into the Capitol building?
Solid citizens? Patriots?

I don't recall reading anything in this thread where any poster supported the rioters in D.C.

I’d expect Biden to do pretty much the exact opposite of Trumps admin. I think our quick dabble into how easily an authoritarian could seize power in our honor system of a government has opened our eyes. Next time this is tried they won’t be fucking inept morons but much more polished and capable. This can never happen again.

Please explain how he seized power. He lost his bid for reelection.


The fact that were even talking about summer riots a week after a President encouraged a fucking insurrection is really bizarre. The whataboutisms are beyond useless.

It's obvious that many on here don't want to even remotely tie the summer riots to the D.C. riot. If you think the D.C. riot is strictly about the election and Trump's false claim it was stolen from him, then I think you have blinders on. That's like a house being set on fire and the house next door catches fire, then the arsonist says the second house burning wasn't his fault.

Because, apparently, the Proud Boys (just a few bad apples!) were inspired(?) by the BLM/Antifa protests in the summer and weren't inspired by Trump and his surrogates (Take the fight to the streets, Mike Pence is a traitor, the Big Lie etc.). It's quite simple logic!

See above. Think big picture and not just on the D.C. riots. These people rioted because they saw their one chance to get what they wanted or at least balance out things from the left go right out the door. They saw rioters burning an looting massive amounts of property, people getting ruthlessly beaten and injured and very little was done to stop it. Using the "election was rigged" mantra is a convenient excuse to hide behind and Trump did nothing to prevent what happened. To put it another way. The Civil War was about states being able to govern themselves, but slavery was the real issue that started it.

I am not trying to put words in people's mouth here, but I think looking at one without considering the other isn't about justification, but rather connecting the dots. By the way, I think there are many, many, other dots to connect.

I posted earlier about how emotion and polarization has been the fuel to political fire. That wasn't by accident, it was by design. Our political system was hijacked decades ago and we are now bearing the fruit. Combine that with the impact of a pandemic and you have quite the powder keg.

Did Trump push people over the edge? I think so (but you were asking Trump supporters, so I don't qualify as I never voted for the guy). But he didn't walk them to the edge. They were there already and they were ready to jump and would have jumped at some point. That isn't a defense of him by the way, as he could have tried to stop them from jumping at that moment. But if you think Trump is the reason for the violence, I think you miss the forest for the trees.

This.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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He most certainly will, along with a lot of other programs.



Please explain how he seized power. He lost his bid for reelection.

I used the word could not DID. His followers breached and took over the Capitol building at his urging, based on lies, and for the express purpose of OVERTURNING THE ELECTION to keep Trump in power. According to all the sources I have read.... it was coordinated (possibly with help from GOP congress people) and they damn near succeeded in capturing Congresspersons. The #2-#5 in the line of succession were in the building at the time. This was as close to a coup we have ever had and it almost succeeded. Denying these facts is irresponsible at this point. If you cant understand how this was a coup attempt then we will never find common ground here. Continuing to minimize and justify this becasue of BLM is also non sequitur, Its a point of contention which I refuse to engage in any further. These people were here to overturn the election. End of story. What drove them to this is something to look at an d understand but no matter what those reasons were (Im sure there are any number of them) if will never excuse what happened.
 
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NDohio

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There are a few on the inside that realize the Republican Party is at a fork in the road - which way will they go?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...y-theories-will-doom-republican-party/617707/

Eugene goodman is an American hero. At a pivotal moment on January 6, the veteran United States Capitol Police officer single-handedly prevented untold bloodshed. Staring down an angry, advancing mob, he retreated up a marble staircase, calmly wielding his baton to delay his pursuers while calling out their position to his fellow officers. At the top of the steps, still alone and standing just a few yards from the chamber where senators and Vice President Mike Pence had been certifying the Electoral College’s vote, Goodman strategically lured dozens of the mayhem-minded away from an unguarded door to the Senate floor.


The leader of that flank of the mob, later identified by the FBI as Douglas Jensen, wore a T-shirt emblazoned with a red-white-and-blue Q—the insignia of the delusional QAnon conspiracy theory. Its supporters believe that a righteous Donald Trump is leading them in a historic quest to expose the U.S. government’s capture by a global network of cannibalistic pedophiles: not just “deep state” actors in the intelligence community, but Chief Justice John Roberts and a dozen-plus senators, including me. Now Trump’s own vice president is supposedly in on it, too. According to the FBI, Jensen “wanted to have his T-shirt seen on video so that ‘Q’ could ‘get the credit.’”


January 6 is a new red-letter day in U.S. history, not just because it was the first time that the Capitol had been ransacked since the War of 1812, but because a subset of the invaders apparently were attempting to disrupt a constitutionally mandated meeting of Congress, kidnap the vice president, and somehow force him to declare Trump the victor in an election he lost. En route, the mob ultimately injured scores of law-enforcement officers. The attack led to the deaths of two officers and four other Americans. But the toll could have been much worse: Police located pipe bombs at the headquarters of both the Republican and Democratic National Committees. Investigators discovered a vehicle fully loaded with weaponry and what prosecutors are calling “homemade napalm bombs.”

The violence that Americans witnessed—and that might recur in the coming days—is not a protest gone awry or the work of “a few bad apples.” It is the blossoming of a rotten seed that took root in the Republican Party some time ago and has been nourished by treachery, poor political judgment, and cowardice. When Trump leaves office, my party faces a choice: We can dedicate ourselves to defending the Constitution and perpetuating our best American institutions and traditions, or we can be a party of conspiracy theories, cable-news fantasies, and the ruin that comes with them. We can be the party of Eisenhower, or the party of the conspiracist Alex Jones. We can applaud Officer Goodman or side with the mob he outwitted. We cannot do both.


If and when the House sends its article of impeachment against Trump to the Senate, I will be a juror in his trial, and thus what I can say in advance is limited. But no matter what happens in that trial, the Republican Party faces a separate reckoning. Until last week, many party leaders and consultants thought they could preach the Constitution while winking at QAnon. They can’t. The GOP must reject conspiracy theories or be consumed by them. Now is the time to decide what this party is about.

The newly elected Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. She once ranted that “there’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take this global cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles out, and I think we have the president to do it.” During her campaign, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy had a choice: disavow her campaign and potentially lose a Republican seat, or welcome her into his caucus and try to keep a lid on her ludicrous ideas. McCarthy failed the leadership test and sat on the sidelines. Now in Congress, Greene isn’t going to just back McCarthy as leader and stay quiet. She’s already announced plans to try to impeach Joe Biden on his first full day as president. She’ll keep making fools out of herself, her constituents, and the Republican Party.


If the GOP is to have a future outside the fever dreams of internet trolls, we have to call out falsehoods and conspiracy theories unequivocally. We have to repudiate people who peddle those lies.


We also have to show a healthier path forward. The frustrations that caused so many people to turn in desperate directions for a political voice are not going away when Trump leaves the White House for Mar-a-Lago, because deception and demagoguery are the inevitable consequences of a politics that is profoundly, systemically dysfunctional. We must begin by asking how we got to such a discontented place, where we are mired in lies, rage, and now violence. In this essay, I am focusing on the maladies of the right, but Americans across the political spectrum are falling prey to the siren song of conspiracism. Here are three reasons.

The way Americans are consuming and producing news—or what passes for it these days—is driving us mad. This has been said many times, but the problem has worsened in the past five years. On the supply side, media outlets have discovered that dialing up the rhetoric increases clicks, eyeballs, and revenue. On the demand side, readers and viewers like to see their opinions affirmed, rather than challenged. When everybody’s outraged, everybody wins—at least in the short term.

This is not a problem only on the right or only on obscure blogs. The underlying economics that drive Fox News and upstarts such as One America News to cultivate and serve ideologically distinct audiences also drive MSNBC, CNN, and The New York Times. More and more fiercely, media outlets rally their audience behind the latest cause du jour, whether it’s battling supposed election fraud or abolishing local police departments.


The conservative swaths of this media landscape were primed for Trump’s “Stop the steal” lie, which lit the fuse for the January 6 riot. For nine weeks, the president consistently lied that he had “won in a landslide.” Despite the fact that his lawyers and allies were laughed out of court more than 60 times, he spread one conspiracy theory after another across television, radio, and the web. For anyone who wanted to hear that Trump won, a machine of grifters was turning clicks into cash by telling their audiences what they wanted to hear. The liars got rich, their marks got angry, and things got out of control.

Traditional media outlets are only some of the long-standing institutions collapsing as the digital revolution erodes geographic communities in favor of placeless ones. Many people who yell at strangers on Twitter don’t know their own local officials or even their neighbors across the street. The loss of rootedness and institutional authority has created an opening for populists on the right and the left. It’s not a coincidence that in 2016, millions of Republicans threw in their lot behind a man who for almost all of his life had been a Democratic voter and donor, and millions of Democrats wanted as their nominee a senator who staunchly refused to join their party. On both sides, conventional politicians were being told they had lost the thread.


The anger being directed today at major internet platforms—Twitter, Facebook, and Google, especially—is, in part, a consequence of the fading of traditional political authority. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes inadvertently, Americans have outsourced key parts of political life to Silicon Valley behemoths that were not designed to, and are not competent to, execute functions traditionally in the province of the government. The failure of our traditional political institutions and our traditional media to function as spaces for genuine political conversation has created a vacuum now filled by the social-media giants—who are even worse at the job.

Civic authority has ebbed in other ways. Political incompetence and malpractice around the COVID-19 pandemic have only deepened suspicions that some politicians will never let a crisis go to waste. The decisions in California to keep churches closed but to keep open strip clubs and marijuana dispensaries baffle Main Street. Similarly, the jolting juxtaposition of a media-addict mayor breaking up Hasidic funerals while marching in Black Lives Matter protests not only deepens the cynicism of many Americans, but it indisputably undermined institutions of public health that should have been cautiously protecting their standing.


Our political sickness has a third cause. At least since World War II, sociologists and political scientists have been tracing the erosion of the institutions and habits that joined neighbors together in bonds of friendship and mutual responsibility. Little Leagues were not just pastimes; soup kitchens were not just service organizations; they were also venues in which people found shared purpose. Today, in many places, those bonds have been severed.


In 1922, G. K. Chesterton called America “a nation with the soul of a church.” But according to a recent study of dozens of countries, none has ditched religious belief faster since 2007 than the U.S. Without going into the causes, we can at least acknowledge one cost: For generations, most Americans understood themselves as children of a loving God, and all had a role to play in loving their neighbors. But today, many Americans have no role in any common story.

Conspiracy theories are a substitute. Support Donald Trump and you are not merely participating in a mundane political process—that’s boring. Rather, you are waging war on a global sex-trafficking conspiracy! No one should be surprised that QAnon has found a partner in the empty, hypocritical, made-for-TV deviant strain of evangelicalism that runs on dopey apocalypse-mongering. (I still consider myself an evangelical, even though so many of my nominal co-religionists have emptied the term of all historic and theological meaning.) A conspiracy theory offers its devotees a way of inserting themselves into a cosmic battle pitting good against evil. This sense of vocation that makes it dangerous is also precisely what makes it attractive in our era of isolated, alienated consumerism.

Whatever the republican Party does, it faces an ugly fight. The fracture that so many politicians on the right have been trying desperately to avoid may soon happen. But if the party has any hope of playing a constructive, rather than destructive, part in America’s future, it must do two things.


First, Republicans must repudiate the nonsense that has set our party on fire. Putting it out will take courage—and I don’t mean merely political courage. This week, after realizing that some Capitol insurrectionists wanted to capture the vice president, several Republican House members said privately that they believed a vote to impeach the president would put their lives, or the lives of their families, at risk. That is not the “constituent engagement” that elected officials are duty-bound to deal with on a daily basis. That is simply tyranny, just from the bottom up, instead of the top down. When arsonists are inside our house, can we just stand by and hope that they’ll depart quietly?


Second, the party has to rebuild itself. It must offer a genuine answer to the frustrations of the past decade. Other than by indulging Trump’s fantasies about building iPhones in America, Republicans have not figured out how to address Americans’ anger about community erosion, massive dislocations in the labor force, or Big Tech’s historically unprecedented role in governing de facto public squares.

Sensing a chance at tribal expansion, some on the left are thrilled by the chaos on the right, and they’re eager to seize the moment to banish from polite society not just those who participated and encouraged violence, but anyone with an R next to his or her name. Already on Twitter, a conservative position as long-standing as opposition to abortion has been recast as “domestic terrorism.” An MSNBC host talked about the “de-Baathification” of the GOP, comparing rank-and-file Republicans to supporters of Saddam Hussein. In an exchange on CNN, a host accused Republican voters of making common cause with Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan. Yet the exploitative overreaction by the left should not allow an underreaction by the right.

The past four years have wounded our country in grievous, long-lasting ways. The mob that rushed the Capitol had been fed a steady diet of lies and conspiracy theories. It is very possible that the QAnon devotee Douglas Jensen believed the junk he’d been sold—that he was a valued foot soldier in Trump’s war against shadowy forces of darkness. So, according to the FBI, he put on his Q T-shirt and acted like a foot soldier. Right up until he ran into Officer Goodman.

In a standoff between the Constitution and madness, both men picked a side. It’s the GOP’s turn to do the same.

BEN SASSE is a United States senator from Nebraska. Previously, he served for five years as president of Midland University.
 

Rocket89

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It's obvious that many on here don't want to even remotely tie the summer riots to the D.C. riot. If you think the D.C. riot is strictly about the election and Trump's false claim it was stolen from him, then I think you have blinders on.

Define strictly.

Do some of the Capitol rioters think the Antifa riots made their behavior acceptable? Sure, but they are also largely racists with a whole baggage full of backwards views and logic.

We also have their statements during the riots and since they've been arrested. I haven't seen any declaring some Antifa tit for tat as their main reasoning for storming the Capitol.

Moreover, we have Trump's speech directly before the riot, in which he mentions these phrases:

election 58 times
stolen or steal 7 times
fight 22 times
corrupt 10 times
ballot 54 times
Biden 21 times
fraud 22 times

How many times does he mention BLM or Antifa in this speech right before the Capitol was stormed? Zero times.

See above. Think big picture and not just on the D.C. riots. These people rioted because they saw their one chance to get what they wanted or at least balance out things from the left go right out the door.

"To get what they wanted." Hmm, what was that, exactly? You meant to type steal the election.

They saw rioters burning an looting massive amounts of property, people getting ruthlessly beaten and injured and very little was done to stop it.

Very little was done to stop it? I seem to remember police armed to the teeth all summer long and absurd police presences all over the country at nearly every protest, peaceful or not.

Using the "election was rigged" mantra is a convenient excuse to hide behind and Trump did nothing to prevent what happened.

In your opinion, when Trump's trial in the Senate begins is it your belief that the impeachment will revolve largely around BLM/Antifa protests and how it just isn't fair that "both sides" rioted and the one triggered the other?

Because if that's what you think be prepared to be wrong.
 

TorontoGold

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See above. Think big picture and not just on the D.C. riots. These people rioted because they saw their one chance to get what they wanted or at least balance out things from the left go right out the door. They saw rioters burning an looting massive amounts of property, people getting ruthlessly beaten and injured and very little was done to stop it. Using the "election was rigged" mantra is a convenient excuse to hide behind and Trump did nothing to prevent what happened. To put it another way. The Civil War was about states being able to govern themselves, but slavery was the real issue that started it.

Please watch this. This one of the less insane insurrectionists.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pa65Ssvs-wY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"I listened to my president who told me to go to the Capitol" "I thought I was following my president"

No mention of BLM or any summer riots.

Another one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zDKVyDQcft0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Again, no mention of BLM or the summer riots.

I have yet to see any of the rioters say they went to DC because of BLM/Antifa. I'm not sure why offering up justifications for anti-semites or white nationalists need to be made.
 

NorthDakota

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Please watch this. This one of the less insane insurrectionists.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pa65Ssvs-wY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"I listened to my president who told me to go to the Capitol" "I thought I was following my president"

No mention of BLM or any summer riots.

Another one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zDKVyDQcft0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Again, no mention of BLM or the summer riots.

I have yet to see any of the rioters say they went to DC because of BLM/Antifa. I'm not sure why offering up justifications for anti-semites or white nationalists need to be made.

I dont think they did anything BECAUSE of the riots this summer. I think it may (as in possible) have provided some sort of inspiration or whatever, I think you get the point there.

I won't do a deep analysis on "I thought I was doing as the POTUS told me." These guys all got lawyers and are going to say whatever they think will help them with a judge/jury. They may genuinely believe it or not. Perhaps we'll find out more as time passes.
 
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