Trump Presidency

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Irish#1

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Define strictly.

Do some of the Capitol rioters think the Antifa riots made their behavior acceptable? Sure, but they are also largely racists with a whole baggage full of backwards views and logic.

We also have their statements during the riots and since they've been arrested. I haven't seen any declaring some Antifa tit for tat as their main reasoning for storming the Capitol.

Moreover, we have Trump's speech directly before the riot, in which he mentions these phrases:

election 58 times
stolen or steal 7 times
fight 22 times
corrupt 10 times
ballot 54 times
Biden 21 times
fraud 22 times

How many times does he mention BLM or Antifa in this speech right before the Capitol was stormed? Zero times.



"To get what they wanted." Hmm, what was that, exactly? You meant to type steal the election.



Very little was done to stop it? I seem to remember police armed to the teeth all summer long and absurd police presences all over the country at nearly every protest, peaceful or not.



In your opinion, when Trump's trial in the Senate begins is it your belief that the impeachment will revolve largely around BLM/Antifa protests and how it just isn't fair that "both sides" rioted and the one triggered the other?

Because if that's what you think be prepared to be wrong.

Never said they weren't racist, but by your own mention that they are, you're supporting what I'm trying to say.

No Trump never mentioned the riots. It would be absolutely foolish for him to do this. It would probably create a racial issue greater than what we already have.

Never mind. I have a headache that neither Trump or Biden will make better.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was just looking through photos and I noticed something about Junior’s shirt. <br><br>That’s just not a regular MAGA shirt. <br>That’s the “three percenters” logo on the skull. A far right paramilitary militia group. <br><br>Just more signals in plain sight we may not have noticed. <a href="https://t.co/twZe8NayM6">pic.twitter.com/twZe8NayM6</a></p>— Dadpool &#55356;&#57098; &#55356;&#57098;&#55356;&#57098;&#55356;&#57098;&#55356;&#57098;&#55356;&#57098;&#55356;&#57098; (@petehasabeard) <a href="https://twitter.com/petehasabeard/status/1350980101220036611?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They know exactly who their followers are and what motivates them.
 

Legacy

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I'm ending my posting in this thread with these accounts from the attempted coup at the Capitol.

Democratic Rep. Jason Crow of Colorado, is a former US Army Ranger. . After the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, Jason served in the Army's storied 82nd Airborne Division. He led a platoon of paratroopers during the invasion of Iraq and earned the Bronze Star for his combat actions during the invasion. Shortly after returning from Iraq, he joined the Army's elite 75th Ranger Regiment, serving two additional tours in Afghanistan as part of the Joint Special Operations Task Force before his successful run for Congress.

I Called My Wife and Told Her I Loved Her’: One Congressman’s Story From Inside a Capitol Under Attack

We were there watching the debate and very early on, within the first half an hour, we looked at our phones and watched the livestream of the folks moving down the Mall. We saw the clashes happening outside; I was watching it in real-time on my phone. I started to get worried. Many of us did, as we saw the size of the crowd. I thought to myself after about a half an hour of that, “I don’t think they’ll be able to hold them back given what’s happening.”

Just a couple minutes after thinking that, I saw reports that they had indeed broken through the outer security perimeter. At that point, the security moved on to the House floor, whisked away the speaker [Nancy Pelosi] and the House leadership. Then we got word they had made it inside the Capitol. It was moving very quickly at this point. They had breached the perimeter and there were protesters inside the Capitol.

We heard yelling and screaming, heard officers running down the hallways. Some of this was on social media, like that they were in Statuary Hall. They started evacuating members on the floor, but we were in the gallery. There was confusion about what to do with us. We were held there for a minute, then were ordered to get our gas masks out because they were using tear gas in the Capitol. That’s when I knew things were out of control, that they didn’t have a plan.

Most of the members didn’t know how to use it or how to take it out of the package. I spent some time instructing members how to take the mask out of the package and help them get it on.

I saw Capitol Police on the House floor start closing the doors and locking them. I knew at that point we were trapped and there was no way out and the mob had surrounded us. Then I saw the Capitol Police on the floor started taking furniture and stacking it and barricading it against the door. I knew we were in big trouble potentially.

I called my wife. I told her I loved her and told the kids I loved them and told my wife I might have to fight my way out.

I immediately got into Ranger mode, as I say. I’m going to do everything I can, I’m going to take as much action as I can. I did a double-check of all the doors, made sure they were locked. Escorted the more senior members away from the doors, moving them into a defensive position. Asked folks to take off their member pins so that if the mobs break down the doors, the members would be harder to identify. I took a pen out of my pocket to possibly use as a weapon.

We heard the banging on the doors. The mob had reached the doors. They were trying to ram down the House floor doors. We heard gunshots breaking out, flash-bang grenades going off. I was certain at that point we would have to fight our way out, and so I resolved to do that.

We were there like that for 15 minutes. One of the officers on the floor said the special units, SWAT units, were going to try to rush up and clear a path for us. I relayed that to the officers up in the gallery with us. They said they had cleared a path but they didn’t know how long they could hold it. They opened up the door and made sure everyone got out. I waited and made sure everyone got out, and then I went out. As we left the gallery, I saw on both sides the SWAT teams had wrestled some of the mob to the ground and cleared a path for us. There were rioters on the ground with their hands spread out and SWAT team members kneeling on them to keep them down. There was yelling and screaming down the hall. They rushed us down the stairs and into the tunnels and into a secure location.

It was horrifying. I’ve seen riots before. I’ve witnessed riots when I was in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan. I know what mobs and riots are capable of. This is the first time in 15 years I was truly afraid for my life and safety in this way.

I’ve been asked a couple of times: “How does this compare to combat?”

I’ve been in some pretty heavy combat in my time in Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s very different. That was my job then. You train for it, you expect it, and you’re ready for it. Never in a million years did I think I’d be in a situation like that in the U.S. Congress, in the U.S. Capitol, on the floor of the House of Representatives. I’m still trying to process that.

The Capitol is our shrine to democracy. I grew up looking at pictures of it. I grew up thinking about how sacred it is. And now I serve in that House, and I know just how important it is, the history behind every little corner of it, the statues. To have it defiled and compromised in that way, and so quickly too. It makes me sad, but right now, it makes me really angry.

This was a catastrophic security failure. If this were a military operation, the officers in charge of that operation would’ve been relieved of command on the spot. There has got to be accountability here. It never should’ve happened. Nobody can reconcile the way that we treated Black Lives Matter protesters from this summer with armored vehicles and cordons of National Guard troops on the steps of the Lincoln Monument, with the fact that in a matter of half an hour, this mob was able to breach the shrine of democracy and heart of government and take it over the way they did. I’m angry and there’s got to be accountability.

Some folks at the top responsible for securing the Capitol and the security situation should lose their jobs. I don’t think any investigation is necessary to reach that determination.

We came back afterward because we had to show we would not be intimidated. We would not be browbeaten. We would not allow a mob to stop the will of the people and the certification of this election. We were not going to allow them to win — and they didn’t. They failed.

Susan Wild is an attorney and politician from the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. She is the Representative from Pennsylvania's 7th congressional district. Her father served in the United States Air Force during World War II and the Korean War. She was born in Wiesbaden Air Force Base, West Germany, while her father was stationed there. Wild has two adult children, Clay and Adrienne

From Rep. Susan Wild Explains the Story Behind Viral Photo of Her ‘Panic’ Inside Capitol Siege
"Right after I saw the Capitol police lock the chamber and preparing the barricade, I made the decision to call my wife," Crow says. "I told her we were trapped, encircled, and I told her to tell the kids I love them. I thought we might have to fight our way out. She told me she loved me and asked me not to be a hero — that my obligation was to the family, to our children."

"I did have that one thought: is this going to be the last time I talk to them?" Wild says. "You know, that maternal instinct kicks in big time. I was much more worried that they would be left with, in terms of hearing my voice, what they would be left with. Was it better getting that phone call or was that phone call going to cause them more harm? And that's just a classic mom response."

Adrienne, 23, tells PEOPLE the family had been texting and talking about what was going down at the Capitol.

"I didn't really understand how bad it was. I saw the pictures but didn't really think there was any way they could get inside the building," Adrienne says. "Then mom called me with the horrible call, saying she loves me and she'll be okay. Hearing the fear in her voice, I knew that this was real."

Adrienne could hear the people screaming and the chaos of the breaking glass and see her mom hunched over on the FaceTime call.
 
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ab2cmiller

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BLM and the summer riots had absolutely no direct connection with storming the Capitol.

From my perspective, everything from the rise of Donald Trump, to storming of the Capitol, has at it's root a mistrust and disdain of the MSM by the bulk of Republican voters. Despite being a lifelong Republican, I did not vote for Trump in either election, but I think I understand part of the frustration that led many to vote for a man despite any personal concerns that they might have had.

Yes, there were other factors that fueled the rise, but I think a major part of the appeal was that Trump took on MSM and certainly didn't cower in fear of how his positions would be attacked by the networks. I think that appealed to a significant portion of the Republican voters. In short, a lot of people were tired of being crapped on and being told what terrible people they were for their beliefs. Trump's "screw you" to the media fulfilled a longing in many voters.

I also believe the Republican Party leadership was also probably a contributing factor to Trumps rise as those same voters that disdained the media also hated the Party's all too often timid responses to being attacked by the MSM. Enter Donald Trump.

I realize my theory could very easily be wrong, but it's what I observed at the time of his election.

Unfortunately those same characteristics that appealed to many voters was also the same style of leadership which led him to doing almost anything he wanted regardless of the counsel that he was receiving. Any negative stories by the MSM could be dismissed out of hand as "fake news" which he knew would likely be gobbled up by his followers. MSM reporting that their was no election fraud was likely gobbled up by a segment of Trumps base as confirmation that vast amount of voter fraud did exist. I have no doubt that they truly believed that. I also believe that there was a large amount of frustration over how the summer riots were covered by the MSM. All this did was just stoke a fire that already existed.

If my theory is true, and part of the radicalization of the party was due to total belief that the MSM can't be trusted. Do you think there will be more radicalization or less after the most popular social media platforms ban Trump? I fear that the ban of Trump will only add more fuel to the fire. Will only fuel more conspiracies, will only lead to some lunatic fringe group doing something crazy.
 
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Rogue219

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I am expecting bigly amounts of dumbfuckery this week. Hope I'm wrong but I will hope for the best and expect the worst. Which has basically been the last 5-6 years of my political train of thought.
 

NorthDakota

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I am expecting bigly amounts of dumbfuckery this week. Hope I'm wrong but I will hope for the best and expect the worst. Which has basically been the last 5-6 years of my political train of thought.


I'll definitely have the TV on to keep tabs on any looney toons. Normally I'd assume that they saw what is happening to the dudes storming the capitol and don't want to face similar or stiffer consequences....but these guys are not exactly rational folks so, we shall see n
 

Blazers46

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I am expecting bigly amounts of dumbfuckery this week. Hope I'm wrong but I will hope for the best and expect the worst. Which has basically been the last 5-6 years of my political train of thought.

I guess I am expecting more "rumors" and "suspected plots" than anything. Will sh&t happen? Maybe/Probably... but I see more social media warriors gettting real life cosequences than actual real world stuff (if that even makes sense).
 

NorthDakota

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MSM reporting that their was no election fraud was likely gobbled up by a segment of Trumps base as confirmation that vast amount of voter fraud did exist. I have no doubt that they truly believed that. I also believe that there was a large amount of frustration over how the summer riots were covered by the MSM. All this did was just stoke a fire that already existed.

If my theory is true, and part of the radicalization of the party was due to total belief that the MSM can't be trusted. Do you think there will be more radicalization or less after the most popular social media platforms ban Trump? I fear that the ban of Trump will only add more fuel to the fire. Will only fuel more conspiracies, will only lead to some lunatic fringe group doing something crazy.

I'm pretty much with you here. You see it with people across demographics and belief systems. Once you accept a simple belief as an absolute truth, everything confirms it.

Among young Notre Dame fans it is "ND doesn't have the athletes to win titles." This has largely been correct for some time.

Well, sure as shit, if ND lost a natty but had better athletes and simply lost on a fluke fumbled snap, there would be guys posting "Yep, see...we just don't got the talent in the skill positions to win championships and we never will."
 

Blazers46

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I'll definitely have the TV on to keep tabs on any looney toons. Normally I'd assume that they saw what is happening to the dudes storming the capitol and don't want to face similar or stiffer consequences....but these guys are not exactly rational folks so, we shall see n

You could see it both ways, sadly. Some might be reluctant but stupid people do stupid things. Some people might just try and get their monies worth next time. In many circles these guys are probably idolized. Kind of the like the whole school shooting thing.
 

Redbar

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I'm ending my posting in this thread with these accounts from the attempted coup at the Capitol.

I certainly understand anyone’s personal desire to limit their interaction with this thread and respect your decision to do just that. With that being said, I for one have found this thread seriously deficient of respect, reason or even truth. Mostly the undertaking of the self styled “moderators” who came here on an almost constant basis to drown out and attack dissent, create false equivalencies, vent their own personal issues, and create justifications for what was always, from the beginning, principally, a very simple truth about sociopathy and a dis-eased mind.

You have born a lot of the brunt of those attacks and never do I recall you engaging anyone in that way. I don’t know what the IE award for trying to “stay above the fray” and trying to “assert a point with facts” should be called, but if anyone thinks of it, you got my vote!

Respect. See you in the football threads.
 
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Cackalacky2.0

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That pardon list is full of people who legit were prosecuted or indicted for political corruption and financial scams. What a trashy, gross and fitting end to this corrupt administration. Bannon gets one after scamming ze Magas out money for the border wall. He pardoned people for lying to protect him and “staying strong”. Smh.

I don’t think this is what the FFs had in mind for pardoning power.
 
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Irish#1

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That pardon list is full of people who legit were prosecuted or indicted for political corruption and financial scams. What a trashy, gross and fitting end to this corrupt administration. Bannon gets one after scamming ze Magas out money for the border wall. He pardoned people for lying to protect him and “staying strong”. Smh.

I don’t think this is what the FFs had in mind for pardoning power.

Let's be fully transparent here. There have been plenty of pardons over the years that could be deemed questionable. Trump also pardoned a lot of people who had advocacy groups championing for them.

From CNN.com
The vast majority of the pardons and commutations on Trump's list were doled out to individuals whose cases have been championed by criminal justice reform advocates, including people serving lengthy sentences for low-level offenses.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Eh.... more easing of cognitive bias here. TO me it doesn’t excuse the clearly politically motivated and corrupt pardons. IDK maybe it’s just me. Maybe I am just crazy that I can see a single event and understand that it is corrupt even in light of independent things done by the same person not being corrupt?

Haha. Whatever.
 
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IrishLax

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shortly after pardoning congressmen and lobbyists convicted of corruption, Trump releases an order at 1:07 a.m. revoking his own ethics executive order from 2017, freeing his own former aides from the limits he had imposed on their ability to lobby the government.</p>— Peter Baker (@peterbakernyt) <a href="https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1351774286428721152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DrAiN tHe SwAmP
 

IrishLax

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump pardoning a guy indicted by the Trump Justice Department for defrauding Trump supporters over the fake Trump wall is a fitting ending to the Trump presidency.</p>— Ted Boutrous (@BoutrousTed) <a href="https://twitter.com/BoutrousTed/status/1351741358696931329?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Irish#1

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shortly after pardoning congressmen and lobbyists convicted of corruption, Trump releases an order at 1:07 a.m. revoking his own ethics executive order from 2017, freeing his own former aides from the limits he had imposed on their ability to lobby the government.</p>— Peter Baker (@peterbakernyt) <a href="https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1351774286428721152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DrAiN tHe SwAmP

LOL......Doesn't he realize that there won't be anyone willing to work with him when it comes to dealing with government contracts and lobbying?

I guess on the other hand those aides aren't in those positions anymore, so it seems this act doesn't carry much weight unless it applies to any presidential aides. Then he just opened the door for Uncle Joe and his aides.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For clarity, Powell has voluntarily withdrawn her lawsuit in Georgia claiming voter fraud. The President and his legal team voluntarily withdrew their election challenge in GA the day before they would have had to present their evidence. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/gapol?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#gapol</a> <a href="https://t.co/R9uT40GrT9">https://t.co/R9uT40GrT9</a></p>— Gabriel Sterling (@GabrielSterling) <a href="https://twitter.com/GabrielSterling/status/1351646197862248448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It was all a con. All of it and people died.
 

dublinirish

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Trump pardoning Kwame Kilpatrick is a hilariously petty dig at the people of Detroit
 

notredomer23

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Gonna miss Trump's teleprompterless speeches. This morning, watched his speech at Andrews and he said something to the effect of "They're going to do a great job with Covid, they're going to skyrocket cases right to the ground".
 

TorontoGold

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Eh.... more easing of cognitive bias here. TO me it doesn’t excuse the clearly politically motivated and corrupt pardons. IDK maybe it’s just me. Maybe I am just crazy that I can see a single event and understand that it is corrupt even in light of independent things done by the same person not being corrupt?

Haha. Whatever.

As long as something bad was done in the past by someone else, everything else done by their team is ok, no matter how bad the action was. Bonus points if they are a POC. If there is no historical reference point? Well, then claiming they have no idea who that person or group is. If all else fails "I don't support him BUT *insert excuse for that person's behavior*".
 

Cackalacky2.0

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As long as something bad was done in the past by someone else, everything else done by their team is ok, no matter how bad the action was. Bonus points if they are a POC. If there is no historical reference point? Well, then claiming they have no idea who that person or group is. If all else fails "I don't support him BUT *insert excuse for that person's behavior*".

Im sure he washes his tiny ass baby hands and blows his nose in a handkerchief right after he is done snorting Adderall as well. Makes everything ok.

lol
 

TorontoGold

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Im sure he washes his tiny ass baby hands and blows his nose in a handkerchief right after he is done snorting Adderall as well. Makes everything ok.

lol

Cack don't disparage him!! As you can see the whole Kathy Griffin thing has shook a lot of people (never mind Ted Nugent, we don't like to talk about that...). Oh and the hollywood elites saying mean things is also bad. But, this is the same crew that doesn't care about rhetoric because the guy just straight up got results! Liberal tears baybeeeeeee*


*Don't say mean things! We are allowed to say we'll drink your tears, call you libtards, nazi Pelosi, but Kathy Griffin makes us Big Sad.
 
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