Trump Presidency

[Blazers46]

Did you watch Trump and Guiliani and Juniors speech at the White House before they marched to the Capitol? If you have not you should becasue you wouldnot have posted this. If you did I cant believe you posted this.

Lets just say there was more security that wasnt denied. That would not have stopped these people who showed up armed, with guns, moltov cocktails, pipe bombs and military surplus gear being riles up and told to march to the Capitol by Trump and fight to force Congress to overturn the certification. It would not have stopped them from seeking out Congressional people to execute including Mike Pence. If they killed one cop they would have killed more

It certainly was a failure of not being prepared but I dont think it was on Pelosi, rather Trumps admin for not being ready. DC, Maryland and Virginia couldnt send in NG becasue DOD has control over NG in DC. THey took nearly 2 hours to allow it and even then there was no plan or coordination. It was far too late to do anything at that point as these people had already been in the buildign for multiple hours. Blaming Pelosi is unbelievably naive.

I am confused what you are saying. Are you saying security did not stop them from doing these things? And that added security would not have stopped them either?

 

[NorthDakota]

Wonder what comes of this for Big Tech. Twitter has largely allowed itself to be used for plenty of of bad things/actors. We've talked about it here before, the ayatollah, Chinese govt, etc.

Google and Apple have been perfectly happy to continue allowing Twitter to operate but take down Parler. This is problematic for a few reasons. Conservatives were told for some time "if you don't like Twitter, go make your own." Well they did, and it has been removed. If I recall, terrorist groups overseas have literally used Twitter without Google or Apple refusing to allow the app on phones.

There is pros and cons to any actions taken. But when they take more and more aggressive and generally one sided actions, they'll make it easier and easier for the folks being deplatformed to justify unhinged or dangerous actions.

These guys will just end up on 4chan or some other place, and when that gets shut down they'll go somewhere else. Whether it's legal for them to shut these things down is legal or whatever is a different discussion altogether. I'm sure it'll be litigated, it just seems like a poor decision under any circumstance.

 

[TorontoGold]

Wonder what comes of this for Big Tech. Twitter has largely allowed itself to be used for plenty of of bad things/actors. We've talked about it here before, the ayatollah, Chinese govt, etc.

Google and Apple have been perfectly happy to continue allowing Twitter to operate but take down Parler. This is problematic for a few reasons. Conservatives were told for some time "if you don't like Twitter, go make your own." Well they did, and it has been removed. If I recall, terrorist groups overseas have literally used Twitter without Google or Apple refusing to allow the app on phones.

There is pros and cons to any actions taken. But when they take more and more aggressive and generally one sided actions, they'll make it easier and easier for the folks being deplatformed to justify unhinged or dangerous actions.

These guys will just end up on 4chan or some other place, and when that gets shut down they'll go somewhere else. Whether it's legal for them to shut these things down is legal or whatever is a different discussion altogether. I'm sure it'll be litigated, it just seems like a poor decision under any circumstance.

Conservatives are allowed to be on Twitter, extremists and terrorists shouldn't be. It's not that hard lol

 

[Blazers46]

Conservatives are allowed to be on Twitter, extremists and terrorists shouldn't be. It's not that hard lol

Apparently it is. I have a friend that is a devout Muslim that shared with me some disturbing social media stuff from extreme groups that he said has been up and running for years with little to no disturbance. Extremist organizations use Social media to recruit and moblize all over the world.

 

[NorthDakota]

Conservatives are allowed to be on Twitter, extremists and terrorists shouldn't be. It's not that hard lol

Of course they are allowed. Its not about run of the mill conservatives at this point.

The issue is defining what an extremist is. Or what a terrorist is. And then making a good faith effort at applying that evenly.

Then, taking down an app for being used to spread shitty and dangerous ideas potentially leading to illegal activities (like...storming the capitol and murdering a police officer) on its face makes sense. But twitter was, is, and likely will continue to be used in nearly identical ways very much akin to that.

If the reason for getting rid of Parler is "this place is full of dangerous rhetoric/planning/speech", then it's a bit confusing as to why Twitter or Facebook have been allowed to remain.

 

[Blazers46]

I'm not following the logic here. Do you mean that if what happened this summer didn't and Biden got elected and subsequently Trump reacted the same, there would not have been an attack on the Capitol in an act of domestic terrorism?

If George Floyd had not been killed by the policeman, we would have avoided what happened this summer, thereby there would have been no Capitol invasion?

If Biden hadn't been elected by the majority of Americans and won the majority of electoral votes, there wouldn't have been violence. So Biden's election was the cause of the terrorists' actions?

I actually dont think so. We have seen rioters and looters storm government buildings. Then we also have a large number of politicians and celebs bailing these same people out of jail. When I say bail them out of jail, they are donating money to groups thats sole purpose is bailing people out of jail for rioting and looting. We even have celebs holding a Trump severed head and I think there was some play portraying violence toward, ironically, a man that looks and dressed to look like Trump. We have celebs talking about killing and blowig up the white house with ZERO blowback from the press or justice system.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Well I guess since HE considered himself a Republican and now no longer one is all that matters and is all the point.

And imagine being able to work for different political parties and still maintain your ideology. Crazy shit right there. Totally a negative against him. Lol. Smh I must be confused because for the last 12 years all I heard was how Dems are so partisan. Lmao

Lots of principled conservatives are fleeing the party. The GOP will remain a duopoly in American political parties, and unfortunately, their void will be filled with enraged Trumpers. It's something that needs to be addressed on a national scale as well as the state and local levels.

 

[TorontoGold]

Apparently it is. I have a friend that is a devout Muslim that shared with me some disturbing social media stuff from extreme groups that he said has been up and running for years with little to no disturbance. Extremist organizations use Social media to recruit and moblize all over the world.

The issue of Twitter dragging their heels for actually enforcing their TOS has been around for a LONG time. It's not a binary "either we have white supremacists or we have muslim extremists".

Conservatives are allowed to be on social media, Bill O'Reilly is still there for example. Unless, Dan Bongino is someone you think is a rational conservative.

Of course they are allowed. Its not about run of the mill conservatives at this point.

The issue is defining what an extremist is. Or what a terrorist is. And then making a good faith effort at applying that evenly.

Then, taking down an app for being used to spread shitty and dangerous ideas potentially leading to illegal activities (like...storming the capitol and murdering a police officer) on its face makes sense. But twitter was, is, and likely will continue to be used in nearly identical ways very much akin to that.

If the reason for getting rid of Parler is "this place is full of dangerous rhetoric/planning/speech", then it's a bit confusing as to why Twitter or Facebook have been allowed to remain.

They should be allowed to remain because the majority of it isn't used as an incel hangout. But, they really need to clean up their act because sitting around doing nothing for years and then taking a huge step (banning Trump) makes it seem partisan AF.

 

[Legacy]

Let's say that anti-fa (as if they are coordinated enough) gets outraged at the attack at the Capitol. They decide to attack Mar-a-Lago after the Inauguration and break through security who they beat and cause one death. Only in the minds of those few who acted and supported that action in other ways would there be some relationship.

In my mind, the comparison might be that many at the rally were exercising their First Amendment rights as were the demonstrators this summer about racial injustice. A few of each acted criminally.

If we can treat each group evidencing intent and/or actions with the same standard for crimes and forego generalizing it to right v left, we can move forward together.

I agree with Lion when he says:

The problem, IMO, is that those inspired to riot on behalf of Trump and a stolen election were sold a bill of goods by a man that doesn't actually care about them at all.

But there's more evidence of wide-ranging racial injustice than there is of a stolen election. And while the BLM riots did go after federal property, those localized but wide-ranging incidents don't really compare to a mob targeting the very seat of our nation's power during the electoral process, IMO.

 

[GoIrish41]

Apparently it is. I have a friend that is a devout Muslim that shared with me some disturbing social media stuff from extreme groups that he said has been up and running for years with little to no disturbance. Extremist organizations use Social media to recruit and moblize all over the world.

One of those extremist organizations is the Trump administration.

Social media sites that overlooked their own policies to mollify Trump and his brown shirts would likely have stopped this coup from happening. He’s been promoting white nationalism, autocracy, and violence since 2015 and much longer if you count his racist birther nonsense. All these sites have rules about all of his on-line transgressions birthday and they did nothing to stop him until last week.

 

[Legacy]

I actually dont think so. We have seen rioters and looters storm government buildings. Then we also have a large number of politicians and celebs bailing these same people out of jail. When I say bail them out of jail, they are donating money to groups thats sole purpose is bailing people out of jail for rioting and looting. We even have celebs holding a Trump severed head and I think there was some play portraying violence toward, ironically, a man that looks and dressed to look like Trump. We have celebs talking about killing and blowig up the white house with ZERO blowback from the press or justice system.

I don't see a problem with bailing people out of jail. We're based on innocent until proven guilty. Many of those charges were misdemeanors. I don't see a connection of the bailing out "for rioting and looting". Like the head of Patriot Prayer when accused of a felony for inciting a riot in Oregon or the head of Proud Boys arrested prior to the insurrection they were, I'm sure, a condition was that they were told not to attend further rallies while on bail. One of the Patriot Prayer leaders did and is back in jail.

Lately in Oregon, the antifa rioted on New Year's, went through downtown breaking windows, and stole some stuff with some being arrested and will be prosecuted. Trump supporters at a Stop the Steal rally were held back from entering the Capitol and when the BLM supporters showed up attacked them before the police could intervene and keep them separate. Arrests were made, but windows were broken in businesses downtown. The Gov, Kate Brown, was burned in effigy. Portland's mayor has said the antifa arrested will be prosecuted to the full extent and others will be found. I can't emphasize enough that most Oregonians have been fed up with both for years.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Apparently it is. I have a friend that is a devout Muslim that shared with me some disturbing social media stuff from extreme groups that he said has been up and running for years with little to no disturbance. Extremist organizations use Social media to recruit and moblize all over the world.

And they're being watched every step of the way.

 

[phork]

@donk_enby has all the Parler stuff on Twitter.

 

[RDU Irish]

I hate it when I go to a party and it gets out of hand for a couple hours and you know people die and the government stops functioning because it is locked in a panic room, and the gallows and flexi cuffs and weapons and the confederate battle flags are all just like "around", really bums my vibe.

LOL that you think Congress is a functional government body. Thanks for trying to understand the point - view must be nice on that incredibly tall horse of yours.

 

[RDU Irish]

Without a doubt there is a lot of hypocrisy on both sides. I'm pretty much a centrist so when I watch these riots, I see people who are strikingly similar. They seem to have much in common with each other. Mostly disenfranchised individuals who think the system is working against them and there is probably some truth to it. I'd say most of the people who show up to these things are not really "winning" in life. The ones I know who are hard core also seem to fit this mold. "My boss hates me, my ex-wife is a bitch, etc..." Of course, if you're happily married and doing well at work, you probably don't think the system is too bad.

This is substantially more on point. Why is it so hard to say both side has idiots? Tolerate one brand of idiot and you are encouraging others. Berate and badger one side and you are just asking for it back in spades.

 

[Armyirish47]

LOL that you think Congress is a functional government body. Thanks for trying to understand the point - view must be nice on that incredibly tall horse of yours.

LOL. Nice try. Congress wasn't having a BBQ mixer when everything went down. My horse is just tall enough to see over manure mounds.

 

[RDU Irish]

LOL. Nice try. Congress wasn't having a BBQ mixer when everything went down. My horse is just tall enough to see over manure mounds.

So different from the Kavanaugh chaos? Were they trying to influence the nomination of a Supreme Court nominee or just hanging for fun? Inauguration riots? The mob burning shit outside the white house half the summer - you know when Trump went full nazi and cleared out normal, well adjusted citizens to do his dumb photo op by the church with a bible he probably has never opened? Was it the ACB super spreader event that the normal well adjusted citizens were pushing on all of the ruling elites as they left the White House? The one where a cop is pushed in to Rand Paul - that normal thing.

Champion those causes, let them transpire with impunity and when the other side feels slighted call them terrorists for doing the same. Maxine Waters asked for it, so did Nancy and Chuck. Directly, not secret Proud Boys code words that only Cack knows.

Sorry, you get what you give.

 

[Rogue219]

Hard to see if there are any "conservatives" left. Romney? Kinzinger? No idea anymore. I'm sure Susan Collins is "concerned" and Lisa Murkowski has threatened to leave the party, but I've seen that tale before.

And if you are a conservative, you're going to get primaried by some Q goof in 2022 and depending on your district you may want to start packing your office the next time you are barricaded inside of it.

This all looks and feels like exactly what Steve Bannon was hoping for 4-5 years ago. Based on what I know of him, this is precisely what he helps right wing fringe parties try to do all over the world.

This is going to be a long process, if we ever actually get out of it. Literally no idea who we can trust right now when security for the inaugeration is being vetted to see if they are white nationalist sympathizers so we can avoid a military coup on the 20th.

People need to be held accountable, otherwise it is going to happen again and it will be successful.

 

[Irish#1]

100% absolutely not. This happened becasue Trump lost the election and him and the GOP lied about it repeatedly since November. This has 0 to do with BLM.

Its completely dishonest to suggest otherwise. This wasnt the "IM PISSED OFF ABOUT BLM" march.....it was the "STOP THE STEAL" insurrection. Nothing more. There were no refences to BLM made by Trump, Guiliani, or any of the other speakers at the white house that day. It was 100% about the lie that Trump won the election.

Its my opinion that R's who voted for trump are having a hard time accepting that their likeminded brethren did what they did and need something to make themselves feel better about what happened. I cant help you accept this fact. I can only point out that trying to tie this to BLM is completely wrong. R's need to do some soul searching and figure out if they want to continue to support a fascist group of people who support racism, nazis and conspiracy theorists.

I'm not following the logic here. Do you mean that if what happened this summer didn't and Biden got elected and subsequently Trump reacted the same, there would not have been an attack on the Capitol in an act of domestic terrorism?

If George Floyd had not been killed by the policeman, we would have avoided what happened this summer, thereby there would have been no Capitol invasion?

If Biden hadn't been elected by the majority of Americans and won the majority of electoral votes, there wouldn't have been violence. So Biden's election was the cause of the terrorists' actions?

[/B]

Right! Broad minds think it is liberals’ fault that Donald Trump provoked right wing extremist to attack the Capital on the exact day they were to certify THE ELECTION, got it! BLM’s fault they erected a gallows for Vice President Pence, I guess Antifa’s fault that they turned on Senator Graham at the airport.

Makes sense. I guess it was George Floyd’s fault he got murdered for having a (fake?) twenty dollar bill. Who’s fault was Charlottesville?

Edit: A few quicker minds already responded to that broad minded drivel.

This is exactly what type of a response I expected. You get so caught up in your narrowly focused vision you can't see the forest for the trees. Not once did you see me say anything about Trump not having a part in the riot at the Capitol and that's not what I was saying. The riot at the Capitol is a result of the frustration many felt from the riots in the summer. This is a deeper problem than just Trump and his Trumpers.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is exactly what type of a response I expected. You get so caught up in your narrowly focused vision you can't see the forest for the trees. Not once did you see me say anything about Trump not having a part in the riot at the Capitol and that's not what I was saying. The riot at the Capitol is a result of the frustration many felt from the riots in the summer. This is a deeper problem than just Trump and his Trumpers.

It really isn’t. I have just as much sympathy for them as they have for anyone else whose kids are being murdered by cops or unable to feed their families during a pandemic. They were wrong then and they’re wrong now. Fuck them. You reap what you sow.

 

[Rocket89]

This is substantially more on point. Why is it so hard to say both side has idiots? Tolerate one brand of idiot and you are encouraging others. Berate and badger one side and you are just asking for it back in spades.

One unassailable fact from 4+ years of this thread is the more “both sides” talk there is the worse the news has been for Trump and Republicans. It’s like clockwork and maybe the only unified talking point remaining for the Trump lovers.

 

[Legacy]

This is exactly what type of a response I expected. You get so caught up in your narrowly focused vision you can't see the forest for the trees. Not once did you see me say anything about Trump not having a part in the riot at the Capitol and that's not what I was saying. The riot at the Capitol is a result of the frustration many felt from the riots in the summer. This is a deeper problem than just Trump and his Trumpers.

The two reasons that I have heard for the attack on our Capitol, attempt to stop certification of the election and attempt to "hold them accountable" were 1) to stop the steal of the election by the Democrats and 2) their Constitutional rights were being taken away.

I didn't hear any call to action related to frustrations over the summer riots with a need to retaliate against Congress and the legislative branch. That sounds more like a justification for criminal conduct that resulted in lives lost.

State law enforcement is being mobilized throughout the country in expectation of Inauguration attacks by the terrorists.

 

[TorontoGold]

The two reasons that I have heard for the attack on our Capitol, attempt to stop certification of the election and attempt to "hold them accountable" were 1) to stop the steal of the election by the Democrats and 2) their Constitutional rights were being taken away.

I didn't hear any call to action related to frustrations over the summer riots with a need to retaliate against Congress and the legislative branch. That sounds more like a justification for criminal conduct that resulted in lives lost.

State law enforcement is being mobilized throughout the country in expectation of Inauguration attacks by the terrorists.

It's 100% justification for it. I'll never why people want to argue on behalf of anti-semites and white nationalists as if they're on the same team. Very weird. No one the board was pro-Antifa, yet there's numerous people trying to justify the MAGA actions.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

The two reasons that I have heard for the attack on our Capitol, attempt to stop certification of the election and attempt to "hold them accountable" were 1) to stop the steal of the election by the Democrats and 2) their Constitutional rights were being taken away.

I didn't hear any call to action related to frustrations over the summer riots with a need to retaliate against Congress and the legislative branch. That sounds more like a justification for criminal conduct that resulted in lives lost.

State law enforcement is being mobilized throughout the country in expectation of Inauguration attacks by the terrorists.

You are correct. Its 100% an attempt to justify the insurrection, or at least minimize the importance by whatabouting BLM. It has nothing to do with BLM. Not one politician has mentioned BLM regarding this. Its all been "Stop the Steal" or "fighting" to overturn a fair election. These people are deplorables and are dangerous for how they are willing to kill and take over the government just becasue their guy didn't win.. Not only didnt he win but he lost all three branches of government. It was a wipeout. The politicians who continue to state Trump won are seriously damaging our democracy just becasue they got their soundly defeated.

These lunatics believe Trump actually won California.

Donald Trumps Transcript January 6, 2021 Not one mention of BLM. Numerous calls to action and taking charge and fighting. This entire speech does nothing but enforce the lie that he is the winner and they rigged the election. Basically threatens Mike Pence if he doesnt overturn the electoral college.

Guilliani's Speech January 6 2021. Also not one word about BLM. Only a stolen election and calls to action.

Jrs Speech was an explicative filled verabal diarreah where the word fight was used pretty much twice a sentence.

 

[RDU Irish]

One unassailable fact from 4+ years of this thread is the more “both sides” talk there is the worse the news has been for Trump and Republicans. It’s like clockwork and maybe the only unified talking point remaining for the Trump lovers.

How do you feel about the Tea Party? Because my belief is that phenomenon is what Trump tapped in to. He did not make this wave, he rode it. Does Obama weaponizing the IRS make you proud b/c you liked who he targeted? Does turning the FBI on a duly elected president frustrate you on any level? Character assassination of respectable SCOTUS nominees? Can people here even comprehend how some might take offense to this and find it a greater threat to our Republic than some dumbass in a buffalo headdress taking selfies in the halls of Congress?

Some of you actually think a coup was in the mix - I don't know what to say. Like they would physically force Nancy and Co to vote a different way? Like that would stand up even if they did? WTF, that is comically stupid - about as well thought out as the plot to any movie involving Will Ferrell. Or they could affect laws b/c they stole her podium and gavel? Given all of this contempt, how is the intimidation of Senators during the Kavanaugh nomination interpreted? I am not justifying these actions, I am condemning them on the same level as other actions that many of the most vocal Trump critics championed. The only reason you latch on to this is because you want to take down Trump at any cost necessary.

 

[NorthDakota]

These lunatics believe Trump actually won California.

Lol thats one of the places they lost me. Could I be convinced that shady stuff went on? Maybe. I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but when your argument says "a Republican won all these states" and you include California on that list.. I'm gonna probably just sit this one out.

The Hugo Chavez and Brian Kemp/SOS stuff, as wild as that was, was more believable than a Republican winning California in a Presidential election in 2020.

Unfortunately, for some folks across political spectrum, sports Fandoms, or anything where people get attached to teams/factions, literally anything and everything is proof reinforcing whatever view they have. It's generally harmless in most facets but when it is political or religious (the former has become a religion for many), it appears it can rear its ugly head.

The Senate and House primaries next year will be useful to see how the weirdos are taking things.

 

[TorontoGold]

Lol thats one of the places they lost me. Could I be convinced that shady stuff went on? Maybe. I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but when your argument says "a Republican won all these states" and you include California on that list.. I'm gonna probably just sit this one out.

The Hugo Chavez and Brian Kemp/SOS stuff, as wild as that was, was more believable than a Republican winning California in a Presidential election in 2020.

Unfortunately, for some folks across political spectrum, sports Fandoms, or anything where people get attached to teams/factions, literally anything and everything is proof reinforcing whatever view they have. It's generally harmless in most facets but when it is political or religious (the former has become a religion for many), it appears it can rear its ugly head.

The Senate and House primaries next year will be useful to see how the weirdos are taking things.

Weirdest moment of this is that NoDak has become likely the most reasonable Trump supporter. Strange times! Lol

 

[RDU Irish]

Lol thats one of the places they lost me. Could I be convinced that shady stuff went on? Maybe. I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but when your argument says "a Republican won all these states" and you include California on that list.. I'm gonna probably just sit this one out.

The Hugo Chavez and Brian Kemp/SOS stuff, as wild as that was, was more believable than a Republican winning California in a Presidential election in 2020.

Unfortunately, for some folks across political spectrum, sports Fandoms, or anything where people get attached to teams/factions, literally anything and everything is proof reinforcing whatever view they have. It's generally harmless in most facets but when it is political or religious (the former has become a religion for many), it appears it can rear its ugly head.

The Senate and House primaries next year will be useful to see how the weirdos are taking things.

Cali going red is a good loon litmus test for sure. I do struggle to comprehend Roy Cooper winning Governorship in NC while Trump takes the state. Something like one in every ten Trump voters would have had to back Roy - does not compute. There are a lot of anomalies out there that merit closer inspection - too little too late though once the tallies are in. Love how quickly everyone throws their hands up and say "wouldn't have changed the result anyway" ... wut? It's still cheating and allowing it only makes it worse next time (cough, riots, cough).

If you have processes that suck, fix them. If a pollster is off by 10% every year - can their ass and mock their shitty work. If you think Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly and Atlanta are holding out to see what everyone else has before they submit totals - don't submit shit until they do first. Optics suck even if it is all above board. Confidence in the result is just as important as the result themselves. There are no substitutes for Voter ID and in person, paper balloting. I can understand a lot of the reasons for making it "easier" to vote - just don't agree with it and value election integrity too highly.

 

[NorthDakota]

Cali going red is a good loon litmus test for sure. I do struggle to comprehend Roy Cooper winning Governorship in NC while Trump takes the state. Something like one in every ten Trump voters would have had to back Roy - does not compute. y.

The Great State of ND had exclusively democrat representation in congress from like 1980 to 2010 and voted for Dems for President zero times in there. Even had a Democrat governor somewhere in there.

I know zero about the governor of NC, maybe Donald snagged some folks that didn't bother voting for the governor, he kinda fits the profile lol. Maybe some folks are generally okay with the governor but don't like the DNC on a national level. Any number of things can go on I suppose.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Cali going red is a good loon litmus test for sure. I do struggle to comprehend Roy Cooper winning Governorship in NC while Trump takes the state. Something like one in every ten Trump voters would have had to back Roy - does not compute. There are a lot of anomalies out there that merit closer inspection - too little too late though once the tallies are in. Love how quickly everyone throws their hands up and say "wouldn't have changed the result anyway" ... wut? It's still cheating and allowing it only makes it worse next time (cough, riots, cough).

If you have processes that suck, fix them. If a pollster is off by 10% every year - can their ass and mock their shitty work. If you think Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly and Atlanta are holding out to see what everyone else has before they submit totals - don't submit shit until they do first. Optics suck even if it is all above board. Confidence in the result is just as important as the result themselves. There are no substitutes for Voter ID and in person, paper balloting. I can understand a lot of the reasons for making it "easier" to vote - just don't agree with it and value election integrity too highly.

I followed all 70 of the legal challenges Trump brought and all of them failed except 1 and it was pointless. In all 70 they presented zero credible evidence of fraud. Some people like Dem governors. Kentucky was that way for decades. Always voted R for fed and Dem locally.

The Ga runoff was weird as well. Ossoff got less votes than Warnock by right about the same margin across the board.