Trump Presidency

[TorontoGold]

It was a shrewd move. I think he would have been better off just leaving it out, but he's banking on it galvanizing the far right I guess. Certainly did nothing but give ammo to the far left though, not that he's winning them over.

As far as Antifa, even if you're breaking them down into groups... that's still not an idea. Ideas don't physically burn cities and attack people, they can incite them though.

It was a "shrewd move" to tell an extremist group with white supremacy ties to "stand down and standby", in which they've been celebrating that statement?

In regards to "ammo to the far left", across the entire globe he's being panned for that comment, not sure it just offended the far left.

 

[dublinirish]

That whole segment was bad. Biden claiming Antifa was an idea and not an organization? They're far more prevalent and destructive, but that comment has mostly been swept under the rug. Matthews should have pushed Biden to disavow them too, we would likely see the same result.

this was a quote from the FBI Director and is correct. There is no Antifa central leadership in the US or anywhere else globally.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

His answer there was dumb but he could call those guys idiot racists and they'd probably convince themselves he's speaking in some goofy code. They are weird people.

Yeah. But he didn't. He told them to stand by and watch over the polls. In 2020 our president will not condemn white supremacists. Period. How is that possible? My biggest takeaway from the debate.

 

[tussin]

If Trump was smart, he would stop with the interrupting and personal attacks -- which only play to his base, if that -- and try to actually talk economy, foreign policy, etc. That's how he won the first election. Trump's strongest moments were trying to talk about how good the economy was before COVID, but then he quickly got off track and started in on more nonsense. Outside of the Trump bubble, approximately zero people give a shit about Hunter Biden. Hunter Biden is not running for President. It's like he was coached to only attack so that he wouldn't have to talk about his record or plans... which, IMO, was a huge mistake.

I think you are wrong here. Despite some efforts to win suburban women and Black voters, his strategy has largely nothing to do with swing voters IMO. It's all about base turnout. The strategy is for Trump to A) lose no votes from his base and keep them highly motivated and B) cause Progressive Radicals and apathetic moderates to stay home and not vote.

Trump's best chance of accomplishing this is to bring Biden into the mud with him and win a knife fight. He's trying to change the perception of Biden from steady and experienced to senile and incompetent. That's why he's pushing on Hunter... he wants to bring Biden down to his level. We all think Trump is a corrupt, bombastic blowhard who says ridiculous things, the goal is to get America to think Biden is the different side of the same coin (a corrupt, dottering, senile fool).

 

[Old Man Mike]

If I cared about my country (I do), and if I heard that the two individuals who were trying to become our chief official were going to be on a stage together to talk about relevant matters, I'd wish for the following:

A. An environment wherein such important topics could be commented upon by both;
B. A civil element to such an environment without either person interrupting the other's opportunity to say what he wished to say;
C. An honest ample opportunity for either to respond to the opposite viewpoint without interference during his time;
D. Commentary without name-calling (sort of a childishness not properly part of a chief executive officier's leadership style);
E. An intellectual honesty in presenting opinions and showing their factual bases (unlike say bad high school debate strategies or barroom arguments);
F. A real feeling of Statesmanship in the interactions with ideas known not to be shared by the opponents' organization or self;
G. An open understanding that there are many ways that the country needs to get better, and that some cooperation on these matters was not only essential but necessary

etc.

Regardless of anyone's political stripe, I would hope that deep inside they would hope for this sort of thing as well. And that all of us know that we didn't get it --- maybe not any of it. I really do remember a time when the "debates" (though far from perfect) were much more like the list above than what went on the other night.

If anyone insists now about speaking loudly about blame, well, I won't bother to "debate" that --- that has ground IE to toxic dust enough already.

 

[Legacy]

Just a reminder as to the topics that we were to hear positions on last night:

The Trump and Biden Records
The Supreme Court
Covid-19
The Economy
Race and Violence in our Cities
The Integrity of the Election

 

[IrishLax]

I think you are wrong here. Despite some efforts to win suburban women and Black voters, his strategy has largely nothing to do with swing voters IMO. It's all about base turnout. The strategy is for Trump to A) lose no votes from his base and keep them highly motivated and B) cause Progressive Radicals and apathetic moderates to stay home and not vote.

Trump's best chance of accomplishing this is to bring Biden into the mud with him and win a knife fight. He's trying to change the perception of Biden from steady and experienced to senile and incompetent. That's why he's pushing on Hunter... he wants to bring Biden down to his level. We all think Trump is a corrupt, bombastic blowhard who says ridiculous things, the goal is to get America to think Biden is the different side of the same coin (a corrupt, dottering, senile fool).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you need more than base turnout when you've been consistently tracking down 7+ points since June.

You're certainly correct that it's his strategy, I just don't know if it's a winning one. From RCP:

There were just a handful of goals for Trump, a source familiar with the debate prep told RCP:

Knock Biden off his talking points by answering questions from moderator Chris Wallace of Fox News and then posing another one to his opponent. Force him to own up to the less popular parts of his own record. Push the centrist Democrat to own the policy agenda of those on his left flank.

“The more Joe stutters and stumbles and makes mistakes and says things that just don't resonate or make sense,” the source told RCP the day before the debate, “the more we're winning.”

Did that actually work as intended though? In my opinion it didn't. Joe Biden set a one-hour donations record during the debate which, if anything, indicates that Trump's antics actually galvanized the other side.

 

[NorthDakota]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you need more than base turnout when you've been consistently tracking down 7+ points since June.

You're certainly correct that it's his strategy, I just don't know if it's a winning one. From RCP:

Did that actually work as intended though? In my opinion it didn't. Joe Biden set a one-hour donations record during the debate which, if anything, indicates that Trump's antics actually galvanized the other side.

I think he wasnt as effective as he could have been in pushing Biden on left stuff.

And yeah, Don needs more than base GOP. That's why I think he really needs to focus on the idea that Biden doesn't bring stability. Don probably isn't going to get new people to vote FOR him, but he might be able to scare folks away from Biden. Courts, energy, economy/jobs are the best ways IMO to do that.

 

[fightingirish26]

Man I can't believe people are happy that Trump is bringing Hunter into this. In terms of strategy, trying to get Biden overly emotional and distracted, I get that. But Biden's response, talking about how he was proud that he was able to overcome addiction, was one of his strongest moments imo. I'm no Biden fan but that brought me a genuine warm feeling. Think about how many families have dealt with addiction, from every type of background.

Also, to those thinking invoking the Proud Boys is anything short of disgraceful: Nazi Punks, Fuck Off.

 

[Rogue219]

Just a reminder as to the topics that we were to hear positions on last night:

The Trump and Biden Records
The Supreme Court
Covid-19
The Economy
Race and Violence in our Cities
The Integrity of the Election

Zero on the environment, eh?

I shut my phone off and watched Netflix. It is just about noon today and from what I can gather it was probably the best choice I have made since the day I was born.

I haven't wanted anyone to lose this badly since I cheered for Miami to lose to Nebraska in the 1995 Orange Bowl.

 

[tussin]

Man I can't believe people are happy that Trump is bringing Hunter into this. In terms of strategy, trying to get Biden overly emotional and distracted, I get that. But Biden's response, talking about how he was proud that he was able to overcome addiction, was one of his strongest moments imo. I'm no Biden fan but that brought me a genuine warm feeling. Think about how many families have dealt with addiction, from every type of background.

Also, to those thinking invoking the Proud Boys is anything short of disgraceful: Nazi Punks, Fuck Off.

Hunter Biden has proven himself to be a scumbag in all aspects of his life. And I say that from an entirely apolitical perspective... go read about him.

 

[Bluto]

Man I can't believe people are happy that Trump is bringing Hunter into this. In terms of strategy, trying to get Biden overly emotional and distracted, I get that. But Biden's response, talking about how he was proud that he was able to overcome addiction, was one of his strongest moments imo. I'm no Biden fan but that brought me a genuine warm feeling. Think about how many families have dealt with addiction, from every type of background.

Also, to those thinking invoking the Proud Boys is anything short of disgraceful: Nazi Punks, Fuck Off.

Dead Kennedy’s fan? Cool!

 

[NorthDakota]

Man I can't believe people are happy that Trump is bringing Hunter into this. In terms of strategy, trying to get Biden overly emotional and distracted, I get that. But Biden's response, talking about how he was proud that he was able to overcome addiction, was one of his strongest moments imo. I'm no Biden fan but that brought me a genuine warm feeling. Think about how many families have dealt with addiction, from every type of background.

Also, to those thinking invoking the Proud Boys is anything short of disgraceful: Nazi Punks, Fuck Off.

Hunter Biden isn't just a drug addicted kid. If he was, I'd take it easy on him because of the reasons you stated.

Banging your dead brother's wife..not good....even worse when you are still married.
Knocking up a stripper while banging your dead bros wife...pretty bad.
Dodging responsibility for knocking up stripper...not good. That was quite the ordeal.
Married some film maker like 6 months later (not bad on its own but with all that went on before, pretty weird).

Toss in his financial stuff, which may not be illegal, but certainly not good optics....yeah dude is fair game. Plus he's like 50 years old or something, not necessarily a justification to go after him but its not too similar to going after W's girls, Obama's girls, or Barron Trump.

Aside: Didn't Bush's girls and Obama's older daughter catch some shit for underage drinking or something like that? That was dumb if I'm remembering correctly.

Long story less long: Hunter Biden is a liability if there ever was one.

 

[fightingirish26]

Hunter Biden isn't just a drug addicted kid. If he was, I'd take it easy on him because of the reasons you stated.

Banging your dead brother's wife..not good....even worse when you are still married.
Knocking up a stripper while banging your dead bros wife...pretty bad.
Dodging responsibility for knocking up stripper...not good. That was quite the ordeal.
Married some film maker like 6 months later (not bad on its own but with all that went on before, pretty weird).

Toss in his financial stuff, which may not be illegal, but certainly not good optics....yeah dude is fair game. Plus he's like 50 years old or something, not necessarily a justification to go after him but its not too similar to going after W's girls, Obama's girls, or Barron Trump.

Aside: Didn't Bush's girls and Obama's older daughter catch some shit for underage drinking or something like that? That was dumb if I'm remembering correctly.

Long story less long: Hunter Biden is a liability if there ever was one.

I might be remembering incorrectly but did Trump bring up anything other than the drugs?

 

[Legacy]

Zero on the environment, eh?

I shut my phone off and watched Netflix. It is just about noon today and from what I can gather it was probably the best choice I have made since the day I was born.

I haven't wanted anyone to lose this badly since I cheered for Miami to lose to Nebraska in the 1995 Orange Bowl.

Those were the agreed upon topics by both sides. Poor Wallace. Trying to get the questions in and having to ask to keep on topic and get his questions asked and addressed.

As far as environmental topics, there was some discussion. Trump strayed into forest management and wildfires with Biden countering climate change and alternative energy sources. Trump pointed out job losses and cost and Green New Deal. Biden said it would create jobs. We've had better discussions here on IE that include OMM's input. Millennials vote.

The loss of healthcare for millions and a pie-in-the-sky promise after the ACA is deemed unconstitutional was glossed over by Trump. Stand down and stand by and the refusal to accept the results of a Presidential election where voters can choose alternatives were low points.

 

[Bluto]

He’s been super clear about what he means when he says “forest management.” Also, forest management isn’t something he made up. It’s a well known practice of removing fuel from the forest floor. When branches, trees, etc come down you remove them so there isn’t as much stuff to burn.

Firewise USA is an organization that certifies communities for meeting standards including what Trump has discussed.

I never understood the hate on Trump for this. It’s not controversial or crazy at all.

Yeah, I understand he did not make the term up forestry management and no it is not controversial. One of the big reasons I don't believe he has even basic understanding of the issue is that he has compared the situation in California and out west to Finland of all places. I'm not asking for him to get a masters in fire ecology but it would be more appropriate to compare the issues in California with say Spain or Australia (both of which have had major issues with fire as of late).

Anyhow, this issue is complicated and more nuanced than "picking up branches, trees, ect...". For example it involves more than simply fuel load management which is what you are refereeing to and what I referred to in my previous post. There are numerous components to said management. I have seen no clear policy or plan clarifying as to what he talking about and by extension how the federal agencies under him involved in this would begin to implement said plan or accelerate implementation of existing plans or management practices and or change existing practices to improve them.

Also, his dismissiveness of the role of climate change also seems to demonstrate a basic lack of understanding regarding the issue at hand.

As to the link you posted it looks like that program is focused on what is referred to as defensible space. That is more related to development than forestry management.

 

[Legacy]

Most of the wildfires are on federal land.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm wondering how many people decided not to vote at all after last night's debate.

 

[Bluto]

Most of the wildfires are on federal land.

and a lot of them are not in "forests".

 

[Legacy]

and a lot of them are not in "forests".

They generally start there and spread to communities and homes near the edges. The acreage burned is mostly federal land. I don't see how you blame poor forest management when you are in charge of it and deny climate change. Trump's idea of federal forest management is selling drilling and mining rights.

 

[NorthDakota]

I might be remembering incorrectly but did Trump bring up anything other than the drugs?

He brought up his business ties to foreign governments as well.

I assume he will steer clear of his umm...lively personal life considering Trump isn't exactly a choir boy lol.

 

[PraetorianND]

There’s also fire breaks and other things. Forest management seems a like a totally fine all around term for making sure if a fire happens it doesn’t decimate everything.

Again, lots of things to find wrong with Trump. Forest management doesn’t really feel like one.

 

[Bluto]

They generally start there and spread to communities and homes near the edges. The acreage burned is mostly federal land. I don't see how you blame poor forest management when you are in charge of it and deny climate change. Trump's idea of federal forest management is selling drilling and mining rights.

Which leads to more development in order to support those operations on the wild land interface which inevitably leads to more human caused fires.

 

[ulukinatme]

this was a quote from the FBI Director and is correct. There is no Antifa central leadership in the US or anywhere else globally.

None that we know of. If we knew such an individual's identity wouldn't you think he'd rise to the top of every dead pool? Perhaps he accidentally hangs himself? There are certainly leaders in every area though, you can look at Twitter and see pages for "Antifa Phillidelphia" and whatnot. Again, even if it's a collection of groups that's still closer to an org than an idea. Groups are tangible, ideas are not.

 

[Legacy]

I certainly agree that forest management, climate change, selling rights and the environment were not one of the topics of the debate. Having a family member in fire suppression gives an insight into the work they do annually and with each of these increasingly devastating wildfires. They meet annually in Feb, discuss drought areas, mostly likely most vulnerable areas, position fire suppression equipment, and prescribed burns.

I imagine most Americans will decide based on Trump's record vs Biden's proposals and the direction of the country. Jobs, the economy, Covid and healthcare would have been issues that delineated their differences.

 

[Luckylucci]

They generally start there and spread to communities and homes near the edges. The acreage burned is mostly federal land. I don't see how you blame poor forest management when you are in charge of it and deny climate change. Trump's idea of federal forest management is selling drilling and mining rights.

Do you think that if Trump came up with a very detailed plan for forest management and started enacting that plan in California that it wouldn't be met with some crazy environmentalist resistance, that would probably pick up a ton of national support?

Some of these conversations are so disingenuous. "Well, it's Federal land he should just do something about it". Just like when it was a Federal building they were targeting and he sent in Federal agents? People lost their damn minds and blamed him for the chaos. Or when he threatened to lockdown interstate travel for the worst Covid spots in the country, again, people lost their damn minds.

Like Praet said, there are things to be mad about, this just isn't one of them. Unless, that is, you'd be totally ok with him doing the above. But, something tells me when the time for implementation came, a lot wouldn't be. Because, you know, it's Trump.

 

[Bluto]

There’s also fire breaks and other things. Forest management seems a like a totally fine all around term for making sure if a fire happens it doesn’t decimate everything.

Again, lots of things to find wrong with Trump. Forest management doesn’t really feel like one.

It's his propensity to go into attack mode, blame and redirect. He is in charge of all the agencies that manage the vast majority of land in the west yet he has been pretty consistent in pointing the finger at the States on this one. Call me crazy but "blame the other guy" is not a good way to solve any problem let alone a complex, regional one.

 

[Bluto]

Do you think that if Trump came up with a very detailed plan for forest management and started enacting that plan in California that it wouldn't be met with some crazy environmentalist resistance, that would probably pick up a ton of national support?

Some of these conversations are so disingenuous. "Well, it's Federal land he should just do something about it". Just like when it was a Federal building they were targeting and he sent in Federal agents? People lost their damn minds and blamed him for the chaos. Or when he threatened to lockdown interstate travel for the worst Covid spots in the country, again, people lost their damn minds.

Like Praet said, there are things to be mad about, this just isn't one of them. Unless, that is, you'd be totally ok with him doing the above. But, something tells me when the time for implementation came, a lot wouldn't be. Because, you know, it's Trump.

I would be totally okay with him doing the above if...he relied on credible professionals, not yes men, accepted said professionals conclusions and recommendations and got out of the way.

 

[Legacy]

Do you think that if Trump came up with a very detailed plan for forest management and started enacting that plan in California that it wouldn't be met with some crazy environmentalist resistance, that would probably pick up a ton of national support?

Some of these conversations are so disingenuous. "Well, it's Federal land he should just do something about it". Just like when it was a Federal building they were targeting and he sent in Federal agents? People lost their damn minds and blamed him for the chaos. Or when he threatened to lockdown interstate travel for the worst Covid spots in the country, again, people lost their damn minds.

Like Praet said, there are things to be mad about, this just isn't one of them. Unless, that is, you'd be totally ok with him doing the above. But, something tells me when the time for implementation came, a lot wouldn't be. Because, you know, it's Trump.

I don't think he has any idea about what forest management entails. He's a climate change denier. Some post about suburban women or minority vote. Most Americans under 40 consider this a huge topic and will decide whether four more years of this is what they want. This crosses all of those subgroups.

I didn't know Trump wanted to lock down interstate travel and the business that supports.

 

[Irish#1]

Yeah. But he didn't. He told them to stand by and watch over the polls. In 2020 our president will not condemn white supremacists. Period. How is that possible? My biggest takeaway from the debate.

People are nitpicking and hearing what they want to hear. Wallace asked if he was willing to tell them to "stand down" and he said "Sure, I'm for peace". Then after being given a name for the group by Wallace said "stand back and stand by". It could have been said better and may not have been the exact words some wanted to hear, but I suspect regardless of what he would have said there are those that would call it a lie or say it wasn't enough.