The Keepers: Who Killed Sister Cathy?

[arrowryan]

Well, it looks like Netflix has done it again. From my understandings, these are the same people that produced Making A Murderer. This documentary series looks really, really good; I wouldn't be surprised if it is better than Making A Murderer. I figured I'd make a thread about this series now because its going to need one.

It comes out May 19th. Is it just me, or does Netflix make some really good stuff?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Khr7dbuBjuE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Wild Bill]

Looks like something worth watching. Thanks for sharing.

 

[#1rish]

Was hoping Netflix would come out with a new feature murder mystery docu-series. Looking forward to checking it out.

 

[GATTACA!]

Ooh this looks fantastic. Hopefully this lives up to Making a Murderer since S-Town wasn't really the Serial fix I was hoping for.

 

[#1rish]

Ooh this looks fantastic. Hopefully this lives up to Making a Murderer since S-Town wasn't really the Serial fix I was hoping for.

Was I the only one who found S-Town pretty disappointing? They led you in thinking it was some sort of insane mystery and ended up just being the life story of a depressed man in the South. Don't get me wrong it's incredibly sad, but not at all what I was expecting.

 

[tussin]

Ooh this looks fantastic. Hopefully this lives up to Making a Murderer since S-Town wasn't really the Serial fix I was hoping for.

S-Town sucked.

Relistened to Serial, 100% Adnan is guilty.

 

[woolybug25]

S-Town sucked.

Relistened to Serial, 100% Adnan is guilty.

100%, Really? There's no shred of doubt? I think any reasonable person that listened to all of the facts could relent that there are some holes.

I personally think there is a great deal more to the story and Adnan may or may not have been part of it.

 

[tussin]

100%, Really? There's no shred of doubt? I think any reasonable person that listened to all of the facts could relent that there are some holes.

I personally think there is a great deal more to the story and Adnan may or may not have been part of it.

Yeah 100% -- it's been subsequently shown that his primary alibi (Asia McClain) is complete bullshit. Also, the Nisha call truly is damning. Jay has no motive whatsoever to implicate himself and subsequently rat out Adnan.

I will say that the State's timeline at trial is almost certainly not accurate (specifically in the early afternoon), but it doesn't need to be to legally prove guilt.

I encourage you to check out: https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcastorigins/. A lot of people have done amazing work (including paid out of pocket for the full MPIA) that leave me with no doubt.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Yeah 100% -- it's been subsequently shown that his primary alibi (Asia McClain) is complete bullshit. Also, the Nisha call truly is damning. Jay has no motive whatsoever to implicate himself and subsequently rat out Adnan.

I will say that the State's timeline at trial is almost certainly not accurate (specifically in the early afternoon), but it doesn't need to be to legally prove guilt.

I encourage you to check out: https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcastorigins/. A lot of people have done amazing work (including paid out of pocket for the full MPIA) that leave me with no doubt.

No way. Adnan is definitely innocent, as was the fvcker who lit animals on fire and lured a newspaper photographer to his home and had a big bonfire that night. Of course, he didn't kill her and spread her remains, it was orchestrated by the illuminati.

 

[#1rish]

Released on Friday, and binged it over the weekend. Overall I thought it was good and pretty eye-opening. Not without its faults, however. Episodes were sort of disorganized and went from different info really quickly. I feel like if I didn't binge watch it, I'd have a harder time keeping track. Also felt like they got way away from the actual circumstances of Sister Cathy's murder in the middle. They pretty much only address her in the first and last episodes. For a show sort of titled around her murder it really focused on the abuse and state/church involvement, which was is a tad misleading.

Thoughts on any of you that have watched it?

 

[arrowryan]

I finally got around to starting this 10 part documentary. All I have to say is wow. I don't think it is as corrupt as Making A Murderer, but I think it's more messed up and disturbing. I can't imagine this high school and the Baltimore Catholic Diocese has a good public image. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the school isn't even around anymore. That is my opinion so far after just 2 episodes.

For anyone who lives in the area or had in the past. Is this dark time in history still takes about today in the area? Do people have high opinions on the school?

 

[IrishLax]

I finally got around to starting this 10 part documentary. All I have to say is wow. I don't think it is as corrupt as Making A Murderer, but I think it's more messed up and disturbing. I can't imagine this high school and the Baltimore Catholic Diocese has a good public image. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the school isn't even around anymore. That is my opinion so far after just 2 episodes.

For anyone who lives in the area or had in the past. Is this dark time in history still takes about today in the area? Do people have high opinions on the school?

I've lived in the DMV my entire life and had never even heard of this case until I watched the documentary. Granted, the case broke in the early 90s when I was in elementary school and probably playing kickball isntead of paying attention to this kind of stuff.

It was absolutely shocking to watch that kind of disturbing documentary on stuff that happened 30-45 minutes away.

 

[wizards8507]

Two episodes in and there's a stench of bullshit under the surface of this show. A $40 million lawsuit and 25 years of "repressed memories" doesn't pass the sniff test to me.

 

[GATTACA!]

I finally got around to starting this 10 part documentary. All I have to say is wow. I don't think it is as corrupt as Making A Murderer, but I think it's more messed up and disturbing. I can't imagine this high school and the Baltimore Catholic Diocese has a good public image. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the school isn't even around anymore. That is my opinion so far after just 2 episodes.

For anyone who lives in the area or had in the past. Is this dark time in history still takes about today in the area? Do people have high opinions on the school?

I'm pretty sure they mention in the last episode that the school was shut down.

Two episodes in and there's a stench of bullshit under the surface of this show. A $40 million lawsuit and 25 years of "repressed memories" doesn't pass the sniff test to me.

Come on man how many corroborating accounts would it take to convince you? They said they received over 100 letters from various students right after they put out the ad asking if anyone had fishy experiences with those fathers. Seems pretty far fetched to think that they would all be making their stories up out of the blue.

 

[IrishLax]

Two episodes in and there's a stench of bullshit under the surface of this show. A $40 million lawsuit and 25 years of "repressed memories" doesn't pass the sniff test to me.

I thought the same thing -- and I'm still not sure I 100% buy everything the one lady has to say -- but by the end of the show it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that the priest was a serial abuser.

 

[GATTACA!]

I thought the same thing -- and I'm still not sure I 100% buy everything the one lady has to say -- but by the end of the show it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that the priest was a serial abuser.

I don't believe she was taken to the body. What she said about the maggots was off, and everything else she knew about the scene where the body was found could have been deduced from other news reports and such. Plus taking a kid to see that as a form of intimidation when they're already cooperative seems insane. That's crazy risky for no real reason. Also I just don't believe seeing a dead body, especially of someone you're close to, is something you could ever forget.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Wasn't a fan of the docuseries. Slugged my way through it.

 

[wizards8507]

Come on man how many corroborating accounts would it take to convince you? They said they received over 100 letters from various students right after they put out the ad asking if anyone had fishy experiences with those fathers. Seems pretty far fetched to think that they would all be making their stories up out of the blue.

They said they received over 100 letters. Do any of these ladies seem particularly stable to you, especially the main two? Further, a large number of victims actually makes the story seem less likely, not more so. I understand that it's pretty common for victims to keep quiet about their abuse due to fear or shame, but it's not so common that 100+ out of 100+ witnesses and victims would keep quiet about it for literally decades without a single one of them speaking up. The odds that they'd all be silent for so long are astronomical.

From personal experience, we had a good looking male teacher in my high school that all the girls had a crush on. He was involved in a lot of the extracurricular activities like Student Council and Social Committee, so he was a favorite of the "popular" kids. The unpopular kids would whisper things like "I bet I'd get an A+in this class too if I were sleeping with Mr. So-and-So like [insert popular female student here] is." That bitterness grew into rumor until a good portion of my class honestly thought that Mr. So-and-So was having improper relationships with female students. If you sent out letters to every graduating class that has gone through my high school in his tenure, you'd easily get back 100 bullshit responses talking about how inappropriate Mr. So-and-So was with his female students. It was so bad that my youngest sister, eight years younger than me, said to me when she first stated high school, "did you know that Mr. So-and-So is a pedophile?"

 

[IrishLax]

They said they received over 100 letters. Do any of these ladies seem particularly stable to you, especially the main two? Further, a large number of victims actually makes the story seem less likely, not more so. I understand that it's pretty common for victims to keep quiet about their abuse due to fear or shame, but it's not so common that 100+ out of 100+ witnesses and victims would keep quiet about it for literally decades without a single one of them speaking up. The odds that they'd all be silent for so long are astronomical.

From personal experience, we had a good looking male teacher in my high school that all the girls had a crush on. He was involved in a lot of the extracurricular activities like Student Council and Social Committee, so he was a favorite of the "popular" kids. The unpopular kids would whisper things like "I bet I'd get an A+in this class too if I were sleeping with Mr. So-and-So like [insert popular female student here] is." That bitterness grew into rumor until a good portion of my class honestly thought that Mr. So-and-So was having improper relationships with female students. If you sent out letters to every graduating class that has gone through my high school in his tenure, you'd easily get back 100 bullshit responses talking about how inappropriate Mr. So-and-So was with his female students. It was so bad that my youngest sister, eight years younger than me, said to me when she first stated high school, "did you know that Mr. So-and-So is a pedophile?"

Dude, keep watching. By the end it's completely inconceivable that Maskell was anything other than a serial abuser. They introduce other people, one of whom is insanely credible.

 

[GATTACA!]

They said they received over 100 letters. Do any of these ladies seem particularly stable to you, especially the main two? Further, a large number of victims actually makes the story seem less likely, not more so. I understand that it's pretty common for victims to keep quiet about their abuse due to fear or shame, but it's not so common that 100+ out of 100+ witnesses and victims would keep quiet about it for literally decades without a single one of them speaking up. The odds that they'd all be silent for so long are astronomical.

From personal experience, we had a good looking male teacher in my high school that all the girls had a crush on. He was involved in a lot of the extracurricular activities like Student Council and Social Committee, so he was a favorite of the "popular" kids. The unpopular kids would whisper things like "I bet I'd get an A+in this class too if I were sleeping with Mr. So-and-So like [insert popular female student here] is." That bitterness grew into rumor until a good portion of my class honestly thought that Mr. So-and-So was having improper relationships with female students. If you sent out letters to every graduating class that has gone through my high school in his tenure, you'd easily get back 100 bullshit responses talking about how inappropriate Mr. So-and-So was with his female students. It was so bad that my youngest sister, eight years younger than me, said to me when she first stated high school, "did you know that Mr. So-and-So is a pedophile?"

They weren't all quiet. Lots of them came forward and the church squashed all the accusations. That's why that POS had to be moved around to 10 different schools.

Also don't you think maybe part of the reason all those women seem so messed up is because they were being raped for years at school?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

FWIW, the Diocese of Wilmington posted the following in response to the NetFlix series:

“The Keepers,” the Netflix documentary series that explores sexual abuse at a Baltimore Catholic school for girls, and the murder of a nun in the 1960s, hints that Bishop Malooly may have participated in a cover-up regarding the abuse by A. Joseph Maskell, a Baltimore priest. The abuse apparently took place at the school from 1967 until 1975. Bishop Malooly served in various administrative roles with the Archdiocese beginning nine years later in 1984 and continuing until his appointment as the Ninth Bishop of Wilmington in 2008.

Here is Bishop Malooly’s response to these insinuations:

“In the spirit of truth, I would like to make some clarifications regarding some of the claims and insinuations that were made in ‘The Keepers.’ My intention is to set the record straight, and in no way do I wish to minimize the pain and suffering caused by the abuse perpetrated by Joseph Maskell, or any other priest.

In 1992, while serving as Chancellor and Vicar General for the Archdiocese of Baltimore, I was first made aware of the accusations of sexual abuse of minors by Joseph Maskell. At that time, the adult survivor and her attorney were urged to report the abuse to civil authorities, and the survivor was offered counseling assistance. Maskell was removed from ministry and referred for evaluation and treatment with full disclosure to the facility as to the reason for the treatment. Maskell denied the allegation, and after months of evaluation and treatment, he was returned to ministry in 1993 after the Archdiocese was unable to corroborate the allegation following its extensive investigation.

In a September 8, 1993 letter to Deputy Attorney General Ralph S. Tyler III, I informed the criminal justice system about the allegations. According to media reports, the police investigated the charges and interviewed Maskell. There is no statute of limitations for criminal prosecution of these types of crimes in Maryland, so authorities could have prosecuted Maskell anytime from September 8, 1993 until his death in 2001. They for whatever reason, chose not to prosecute.

When additional allegations were made in 1994, Maskell was permanently removed from ministry on July 31, 1994. The Archdiocese of Baltimore publicly stated that it wanted to speak with individuals who had information regarding Maskell. A detective was hired to search for anyone who may have been abused by him. In 1994, a music director at a Catholic church told the Archdiocese that Dr. Charles Franz may have information regarding Maskell, and so we reached out to him and set up a meeting for October 20, 1994.

The meeting occurred at the Catonsville dental office of Dr. Franz, with Dr. Charles and Mrs. Denise Franz, Fr. Richard Woy, Director of Clergy Personnel for the Archdiocese, and myself in attendance. There were no canon or civil lawyers present. I explained to Dr. Franz that Archbishop Keeler would have attended the meeting to express his apology and to reach-out personally, had he not been in Rome at the time. I explained the policy of the Archdiocese to offer counseling and spiritual assistance as needed. I also encouraged them to report the information to the State’s Attorney. At no time did I offer Dr. Franz a boat.

Charles Franz states that his mother made some kind of a report about Maskell to unidentified Archdiocesan authorities in 1967. I am not aware of any such report. I was a college student in 1967. As far as I know, there is no record of any report by Mrs. Franz in Archdiocesan files.

The crime of sexual abuse of a child or young person is inexcusable, especially when it is committed by a member of the clergy – the very person who should be looking out for the spiritual well-being of all persons – particularly the young. The survivors of clergy sexual abuse should be commended for speaking out. It is because of their bravery that the truth of these heinous crimes has come to light. We as a Church must continue our best efforts to help survivors deal with the painful after-effects of sexual abuse.”

Bishop Malooly served two consecutive terms as a member of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishop’s Ad Hoc Committee on Sexual Abuse (now called the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People) that initiates actions on behalf of the Bishops of the United States to address the problem of sexual abuse of minors and, in conjunction with the National Review Board, provided recommendations relating to the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People. More information is available at Child and Youth Protection.

There is no doubt that some Church leaders made terrible mistakes in the past when dealing with clergy sexual abuse; however, in the 1990s and into the 2000s, the Archdiocese of Baltimore was a leader in the area of outreach to abuse survivors, and transparency in that regard. In 2002, they were the very first Archdiocese to make public a list of credibly accused clergymen going back decades. They repeatedly issued public statements regarding Joseph Maskell’s abuse and held public meetings to address the concerns of the community. They were among the first to use mediation as a way to offer monetary compensation and counselling assistance to survivors. These happened while Bishop Malooly held an important leadership role in the Archdiocese of Baltimore. The Archdiocese of Baltimore did not cover-up Maskell’s abuse.

More information regarding the Archdiocese of Baltimore’s response to “The Keepers” including information about the abuse perpetrated by Joseph Maskell, and the murder of Sister Catherine Cesnik is available at www.archbalt.org.

Doesn't sound like there's much doubt about Maskell's status as a predator. Dunno about how much blame the hierarchy deserves for enabling him/ turning a blind eye. The American Church certainly hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt here, though the phenomenon that wizards describes above is real.

 

[wizards8507]

Wtf even is this show? Four episodes in and I've seen one episode about the murder of a nun, two and a half episodes about clergy sexual assault from some half-insane victims, and half an episode about the Freddie Gray riots.

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[GATTACA!]

Wtf even is this show? Four episodes in and I've seen one episode about the murder of a nun, two and a half episodes about clergy sexual assault from some half-insane victims, and half an episode about the Freddie Gray riots.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

I can't believe all these serial rape victims seem so emotionally unstable. Strangest thing.

 

[wizards8507]

I can't believe all these serial rape victims seem so emotionally unstable. Strangest thing.

I'll admit that I tend toward the hot take when I post from my phone, but still. It's not just the victims, every single person in this documentary has struck me as mentally unstable. The journalists, the Keough students, the victims, the investigator twins, the old man with dementia, all of them. The one woman that they call "the bulldog" looks and acts exactly like Mama Fratelli from The Goonies.

The more I research all of this, the more I'm thinking that the whole repressed memory thing is bullshit. I came across the study linked below and it talks about a scientist-practitioner gap, which basically says that actual memory researchers have concluded that repressed memory is bullshit, but that message hasn't gotten out to the shrinks, who still believe in it and are practicing accordingly. The link below is just an abstract but you can find the full study if you Google hard enough.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

But in fairness, I haven't finished the documentary and won't post any more on the topic until I have. Through four episodes (and quit a bit of spoilerific Googling), I'm sitting with the following opinions:

1. Maskell abused girls at Keough.

2. The "recovered memories" angle was a legal maneuver to circumvent the statute of limitations on civil action.

3. Jane Doe's account of her abuse is less than 100% accurate.

 

[IrishLax]

I'll admit that I tend toward the hot take when I post from my phone, but still. It's not just the victims, every single person in this documentary has struck me as mentally unstable. The journalists, the Keough students, the victims, the investigator twins, the old man with dementia, all of them. The one woman that they call "the bulldog" looks and acts exactly like Mama Fratelli from The Goonies.

The more I research all of this, the more I'm thinking that the whole repressed memory thing is bullshit. I came across the study linked below and it talks about a scientist-practitioner gap, which basically says that actual memory researchers have concluded that repressed memory is bullshit, but that message hasn't gotten out to the shrinks, who still believe in it and are practicing accordingly. The link below is just an abstract but you can find the full study if you Google hard enough.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

But in fairness, I haven't finished the documentary and won't post any more on the topic until I have. Through four episodes (and quit a bit of spoilerific Googling), I'm sitting with the following opinions:

1. Maskell abused girls at Keough.

2. The "recovered memories" angle was a legal maneuver to circumvent the statute of limitations on civil action.

3. Jane Doe's account of her abuse is less than 100% accurate.

I'd say that all accurate. Through episode 4, they haven't introduced the guy who is hella credible yet have they?

 

[Free Manera]

I'd say that all accurate. Through episode 4, they haven't introduced the guy who is hella credible yet have they?

If you're talking about the dentist, that was the last episode I believe.

 

[wizards8507]

I'd say that all accurate. Through episode 4, they haven't introduced the guy who is hella credible yet have they?

Not Deep Throat, right? That guy was shady AF.

 

[wizards8507]

Final conclusion: This documentary sucked, and was a total bait and switch. Seven episodes and I'm no nearer "who killed sister Cathy" than I was after ten minutes.

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