Superconferences & Realignment

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Another interesting piece from @<a href="https://twitter.com/ChipBrownOB">ChipBrownOB</a> having to do with <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%2523Notre">#Notre</a> Dame and the Big 12.Smoke.Fire? <a href="http://t.co/9sxzkB1k" title="http://sbn.to/K8pN1R">sbn.to/K8pN1R</a></p>— One Foot Down (@OneFootDown) <a href="https://twitter.com/OneFootDown/status/205023910712979456" data-datetime="2012-05-22T19:54:44+00:00">May 22, 2012</a></blockquote>
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One high-level Big 12 source said, "I think we'll end up at 12 and a half - to start with." That source speculated Florida State and Clemson could end up in the Big 12 or Florida State and Louisville after the very intense flirtation between the BIg 12 and Louisville when West Virginia was ultimately selected. Notre Dame would be the "half"in that equation until it's ready to give up its independence in football.

 

[rock_knutne]

I don't see ND joining the Big 12. I know there's a lot of "buzz' out there about this but the same can be said when the Big 10 was expanding and in the end, it was all to do about nothing.

 

[phork]

I seriously doubt the BIG would want to continue a series with ND if they joined the BIG12.

And as for it not happening, I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't see ND joining the Big 12. I know there's a lot of "buzz' out there about this but the same can be said when the Big 10 was expanding and in the end, it was all to do about nothing.

Logical fallacies are fun.

 

[TexasNDBig12]

I don't think anything will happen because more needs to change. But if the Big 12 lures away Florida State and Clemson Nd has no choice but to join. In all honesty I dot know why they just don't join now. They can keep their Independence but instead of scheduling Purdue, BC, Wake Forest and Temple, they can schedule Texas Tech, Rice, Kansas State, and TCU. Add that to USC, Michigan State, Stanford, and Michigan State you got a great pitch to recruits. ND will play one of the hardest schedules in CFB, PERIOD !

 

[TexasNDBig12]

I seriously doubt the BIG would want to continue a series with ND if they joined the BIG12.

And as for it not happening, I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Honestly I could careless about the Big 10. If ND Joins The Big 12 they will not be known as Mid West CFB team. They will be the official American CFB Team. They will play teams from the East to the West and they will have no excuse but to get better. The big 12 is the right move and I hope they do it soon.

 

[Redbar]

Whiskey, I appreciate you taking the time to give such a reasonable and practical argument to what is my philosophical frustration with the way things have been going. And, yes I know there is no stopping progress, but...

Those who control the profitable product-- elite football schools-- are leaving tons of revenue on the table for others who aren't offering any value. The bowls are taking a huge chunk, both upfront and by precluding a hugely profitable playoff, and unprofitable football programs in the weaker conferences are taking an equal share of TV revenue.

In other words, the "haves" aren't even close to fully harnessing their current market power. That's what these moves are about.

Like I said MORE.


CFB wasn't a billion dollar industry back then.

I know that it DOES but I don't think money Should change the whole nature of the enterprise. There used to be a market for amateur athletics.

Because the current regime was designed to regulate non-revenue sports, not billion dollar semi-professional leagues.

I have a simple solution then: Don't take away wins, or limit schollies, because those punishments are deferred and redirected. Simply fine the crop out of a habitual line stepper. Take money out of their franchise. Recruiting violations: pay me, fixing gradesay me, lack of institutional control:you're really gonna pay me. Only problem I see there, is once you say it is all about money then how can you say we don't have to pay these guys. Why should The University of Alabama be able to own a franchise with guys who have no intention of getting a degree and the school has no intention of getting them to earn a degree and they don't have to pay these guys a red cent but Jerry Jones has to pay these same guys up to 120.6 million just to have these guys do the same thing on Sunday that they were doing on Saturday. Seems un-American. Why should a university be allowed to share in a multi-billion dollar enterprise with free labor.



I'm optimistic that governance will improve once the revenue sports are separated from the non-revenue sports. Trying to govern them both under the same regime is a primary cause behind many of CFB current problems. But the last thing I want to see is CFB handed over to a "Sports Czar" in Washington.

I hope it never comes to that too, and again I thank you for indulging my philosophical pet peeve, and my apparent need to keep attacking this windmill.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskey, I appreciate you taking the time to give such a reasonable and practical argument to what is my philosophical frustration with the way things have been going. And, yes I know there is no stopping progress, but...

I hope it never comes to that too, and again I thank you for indulging my philosophical pet peeve, and my apparent need to keep attacking this windmill.

I wasn't indulging you, Red. Your frustrations are understandable. I can't defend this as what's best for the sport in general, but it seems inevitable to me, so I'm making peace with it.

As to your suggestion for how to better enforce the current rules, it would certainly be more effective, but that's missing the point entirely. The NCAA is its member universities. The current regime is ineffective because the member universities are content to keep it that way. So unless the government steps in and takes control (a frightening prospect) or the power programs voluntarily submit to a more rigorous enforcement regime, there's unlikely to be any change on that front.

It's possible that the superconferences may decide they'll be better served by forming their own governing body. If that happens, we may see sensible rules enacted with real enforcement mechanisms to back them up. That's one potential benefit in all this chaos.

 

[ND NYC]

i"m glad we have jack dealing with this DeLoss Dodds characer at UT. Dodds would have ate K White for lunch IMO.

Dodds is one slippery rascal, and Jack needs to remember his Shakepeare during his dealings with him.

Dodds "looketh like the innnocent flower...but is really the serpent undereath it"

tread carefully Jack...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

i"m glad we have jack dealing with this DeLoss Dodds characer at UT. Dodds would have ate K White for lunch IMO.

Dodds is one slippery rascal, and Jack needs to remember his Shakepeare during his dealings with him.

Dodds "looketh like the innnocent flower...but is really the serpent undereath it"

tread carefully Jack...

IIRC, Swarbrick and Dodds are friends.

 

[Old Man Mike]

In any such topics of our modern single-value world, just follow the money folks.

If some already have a lot, they still will do what they can to get more.

Follow The Money.

Straight To He!l.

 

[stlnd01]

Swarbrick and Dodds may be friends, but I hope Swarbrick talks with folks at Nebraska, Mizzou and Colorado before he casts our lot with the Big 12. I'm sure it's all sunshine and roses now, but wait a few years. Texas controls that conference and probably always will.

And, yes, Kevin White would have us in the MAC at this point.

 

[condoms SUCk]

And, yes, Kevin White would have us in the MAC at this point.

LOL, Yup I agree with you on that one.

 

[TexasNDBig12]

LOL, Yup I agree with you on that one.

Honestly if ND doesn't get it together soon they will be only as good as the MAC conference teams.

 

[TerryTate]

Honestly if ND doesn't get it together soon they will be only as good as the MAC conference teams.

 

[ACamp1900]

I still say we start the College Football of America Conference...

ND
Northwestern
Vandy
Army
Navy
Air Force
Stanford
Wake Forest
Duke
Virginia
BYU
and idk... Baylor?

and crown the conference champ the national champion every year...

just to **** promote real COLLEGE football and to **** off the SEC even more...

 

[NDinL.A.]

Honestly if ND doesn't get it together soon they will be only as good as the MAC conference teams.

Dude, we don't need you to come on here and tell us what is what. That's an asinine statement right there, but you can have your weak opinion [but do you even watch college football? ND has its share of problems, no doubt, but it wasn't long ago we were in 2 BCS games. You sound like that jack-arse that says we're closer to Army (who we friggin' smoked) than a BCS game (even though we dominated and barely lost to a BCS winning team last year, and beat a team that SHOULD have been in the BCS last year). People like that shouldn't even be allowed to watch college football, but I digress.] We all know that ND needs some fixing, but we don't need Skip Bayless type overreactions from other fans clogging up our site.

You want to talk ND football or college football, have at it. But if you're going to sit here and put down ND every chance you get, you're on the wrong site. This isn't a smack-talking site, where we'll battle with you over which program sucks more (I think TX football, with its embarrassment of riches in local talent has been a far bigger catastrophe than ND the past 2 years) - go to Rivals or ESPN or Scout for that. Let's hope you just want to talk football, and not act like a prick. Thanks...

 

[TexasNDBig12]

Dude, we don't need you to come on here and tell us what is what. That's an asinine statement right there, but you can have your weak opinion [but do you even watch college football? ND has its share of problems, no doubt, but it wasn't long ago we were in 2 BCS games. You sound like that jack-arse that says we're closer to Army (who we friggin' smoked) than a BCS game (even though we dominated and barely lost to a BCS winning team last year, and beat a team that SHOULD have been in the BCS last year). People like that shouldn't even be allowed to watch college football, but I digress.] We all know that ND needs some fixing, but we don't need Skip Bayless type overreactions from other fans clogging up our site.

You want to talk ND football or college football, have at it. But if you're going to sit here and put down ND every chance you get, you're on the wrong site. This isn't a smack-talking site, where we'll battle with you over which program sucks more (I think TX football, with its embarrassment of riches in local talent has been a far bigger catastrophe than ND the past 2 years) - go to Rivals or ESPN or Scout for that. Let's hope you just want to talk football, and not act like a prick. Thanks...

You are right I am entitled to my opinion and I am not attacking ND. I am stating the facts. When they start winning than we can take your opinion to heart. I have been a long time ND fan over 25 years and I have seen it all. A win is a win and the bottom line we lost to teams we should have beat but cant because of some unknown reason. The bottom line Brian K is doing a great job, but with our lack of talent and our scheduling we are a 7 or 8 win team. Maybe every once in a blue moon we might get to 9 or 10 wins but as it stands ND will never make it to a NC at this rate. Its the truth like it or not ! CFB has become bigger than ever and there are just much better teams out there now a days. I agree 100 percent with Colin ND is not setup to compete with the likes of USC, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, and much of the SEC. They cant get enough talent to compete. Michigan landed an excellent class last year, and this year its off the charts. USC is now coming back into the picture and they will dominate recruiting from here on out. In addition now we have to contend with Ohio State which is going to be a killer for us. Notre Dame cant even land kids anymore in their own backyard. Look at the the local running back who committed to USC. I think Jaylon will end up at USC or Ohio State. We might get rochell but again we just don't get enough of the play makers. And for some reason ND cant recruit top DB's. I have no idea why but we just cant get the players.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

You are right I am entitled to my opinion and I am not attacking ND. I am stating the facts. When they start winning than we can take your opinion to heart. I have been a long time ND fan over 25 years and I have seen it all. A win is a win and the bottom line we lost to teams we should have beat but cant because of some unknown reason. The bottom line Brian K is doing a great job, but with our lack of talent and our scheduling we are a 7 or 8 win team. Maybe every once in a blue moon we might get to 9 or 10 wins but as it stands ND will never make it to a NC at this rate. Its the truth like it or not ! CFB has become bigger than ever and there are just much better teams out there now a days. I agree 100 percent with Colin ND is not setup to compete with the likes of USC, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, and much of the SEC. They cant get enough talent to compete. Michigan landed an excellent class last year, and this year its off the charts. USC is now coming back into the picture and they will dominate recruiting from here on out. In addition now we have to contend with Ohio State which is going to be a killer for us. Notre Dame cant even land kids anymore in their own backyard. Look at the the local running back who committed to USC. I think Jaylon will end up at USC or Ohio State. We might get rochell but again we just don't get enough of the play makers. And for some reason ND cant recruit top DB's. I have no idea why but we just cant get the players.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it's a facts optional point of view. It seems like your just trying to be pessimistic.

 

[NDinFL]

You are right I am entitled to my opinion and I am not attacking ND. I am stating the facts. When they start winning than we can take your opinion to heart. I have been a long time ND fan over 25 years and I have seen it all. A win is a win and the bottom line we lost to teams we should have beat but cant because of some unknown reason. The bottom line Brian K is doing a great job, but with our lack of talent and our scheduling we are a 7 or 8 win team. Maybe every once in a blue moon we might get to 9 or 10 wins but as it stands ND will never make it to a NC at this rate. Its the truth like it or not ! CFB has become bigger than ever and there are just much better teams out there now a days. I agree 100 percent with Colin ND is not setup to compete with the likes of USC, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, and much of the SEC. They cant get enough talent to compete. Michigan landed an excellent class last year, and this year its off the charts. USC is now coming back into the picture and they will dominate recruiting from here on out. In addition now we have to contend with Ohio State which is going to be a killer for us. Notre Dame cant even land kids anymore in their own backyard. Look at the the local running back who committed to USC. I think Jaylon will end up at USC or Ohio State. We might get rochell but again we just don't get enough of the play makers. And for some reason ND cant recruit top DB's. I have no idea why but we just cant get the players.

Ok.

1. You've been an ND fan for 25 years, and are just NOW frustrated/pessimistic?
2. If BK wins 8 games this year, it will be the first time the Irish have had 3 eight win seasons in a row for 10 years
3. You keep saying "lack of talent" yet BK consistently lands great out of state AND in state talent (ask Lesley Miles)
4. You agree with Colin-****ing-Cowherd
5. If you've been a fan of ND, then you would know we won't be able to recruit like the SEC, or USC.... For a number of reasons. (it's what makes Notre Dame, Notre Dame, take pride in it, or root for Auburn)
6. "we can't even recruit in our own backyard" Sheldon Day, and Gunner Kiel disagree with you
7. Jaylon Smith ends up with a rival? Yes it could happen. "we might get Rochell" odds are you're wrong.

Troll somewhere else troll

Edit: Elijah Shumate and Davonte Neal wanted me to tell you to shut up. (in accordance with your nonsensical garbage rant)

 

[Buster Bluth]

But if the Big 12 lures away Florida State and Clemson Nd has no choice but to join.

Honestly if ND doesn't get it together soon they will be only as good as the MAC conference teams.

You are right I am entitled to my opinion and I am not attacking ND. I am stating the facts. When they start winning than we can take your opinion to heart. I have been a long time ND fan over 25 years and I have seen it all. A win is a win and the bottom line we lost to teams we should have beat but cant because of some unknown reason. The bottom line Brian K is doing a great job, but with our lack of talent and our scheduling we are a 7 or 8 win team. Maybe every once in a blue moon we might get to 9 or 10 wins but as it stands ND will never make it to a NC at this rate. Its the truth like it or not ! CFB has become bigger than ever and there are just much better teams out there now a days. I agree 100 percent with Colin ND is not setup to compete with the likes of USC, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, and much of the SEC. They cant get enough talent to compete. Michigan landed an excellent class last year, and this year its off the charts. USC is now coming back into the picture and they will dominate recruiting from here on out. In addition now we have to contend with Ohio State which is going to be a killer for us. Notre Dame cant even land kids anymore in their own backyard. Look at the the local running back who committed to USC. I think Jaylon will end up at USC or Ohio State. We might get rochell but again we just don't get enough of the play makers. And for some reason ND cant recruit top DB's. I have no idea why but we just cant get the players.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

You sir. Win.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Lets assume that ND stays independent, join the Big 12 for non-football, and we have to play lots of MAC teams as predicted. What would our schedule look like?

It would look like a top tier SEC team, who play 3-4 true cupcakes a year:

- GT/UNC/Miami
- MAC (Toledo)
- WAC (Air Force)
- MAC (W. Michigan)
- Stanford
- WAC (BYU)
- Purdue/Indiana
- Texas
- MAC (N. Illinois)
- BIG 4 (Tenn/Florida St.)
- USC

It might help our chances of going for 10 wins. And personally I think Michigan or Michigan St. would continue to play us, I was just assuming they would not for argument sake.

 

[Buster Bluth]

^^That will never, ever happen.

If the university wants to the easiest path to ten wins, then they'd join the ACC.

The Big Ten makes the most sense historically and geographically. But Notre Dame's DNA doesn't necessarily fit well with the Big Ten. Eleven of the twelve schools are massive public research schools, and Notre Dame simply isn't that. But it would give them access to the CIC, and that would be a very good thing.

I used to be strongly opposed to the ACC, but it's starting to make sense to me. They actually have some rivals (Boston College, Pittsburgh, Miami), so we wouldn't be losing all of the history. The best case scenario would be for Florida State/Clemson to leave, and Notre Dame force an agreement that Navy join the ACC with them. That's a hard sell, because everyone knows it'd be Connecticut and Notre Dame. But if Notre Dame/Navy were to join the ACC, you'd have a schedule like this:

OOC
Michigan
OOC
OOC
ACC rotation
Navy
Boston College
BYE
Miami (/Southern Cal)
Georgia Tech
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
@ Southern Cal (/@Miami)

You keep playing big rivals, and get three OOC slots. It'd be the best win for Notre Dame.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Honestly if ND doesn't get it together soon they will be only as good as the MAC conference teams.

 

[Domina Nostra]

^^That will never, ever happen.

If the university wants to the easiest path to ten wins, then they'd join the ACC.

My point was that the worst case scenario of staying independent and getting shut out of BIG 10 rivalries is not as bad as it seems.

As far as joining an ACC without FSU and Clemson, it seems to me that the logic isn't there.

- We won't join a conference unless reallignment forces our hand
- Reallignment only forces our hand if there is a 4 team playoff reserved for one of the 64 conference teams
- If there is a 4-team mega conference play-off, either the ACC or Big 12 has to go.
- If the ACC loses FSU and Clemson to the Big 12, then the Big 12 is most likely in and the ACC is most likely out.
- If the ACC is out, we aren't going to join it.

Thus far, and things might change, the school has shown that its top priority is independence. The only thing that really endangers that is a new 64 team division. If there is major allignment, but either a "top 4 teams" playoff, or "best four conference champs" plus "best 4 teams" 8 team playoff, we are likely to remain independent.

 

[felkey72]

If the Big 10 is to expend who are they going to go after?

I believe they will go east with North Carolina a shoe in. That leaves Maryland, Rutgers,Virgina, Syracuse. All of the following being members or formermember of the AAU. If they go west can the steal Mizzo which is a perfect fit from the SEC or they are stuck with Iowa State or Kansas.

 

[TexasNDBig12]

^^That will never, ever happen.

If the university wants to the easiest path to ten wins, then they'd join the ACC.

The Big Ten makes the most sense historically and geographically. But Notre Dame's DNA doesn't necessarily fit well with the Big Ten. Eleven of the twelve schools are massive public research schools, and Notre Dame simply isn't that. But it would give them access to the CIC, and that would be a very good thing.

I used to be strongly opposed to the ACC, but it's starting to make sense to me. They actually have some rivals (Boston College, Pittsburgh, Miami), so we wouldn't be losing all of the history. The best case scenario would be for Florida State/Clemson to leave, and Notre Dame force an agreement that Navy join the ACC with them. That's a hard sell, because everyone knows it'd be Connecticut and Notre Dame. But if Notre Dame/Navy were to join the ACC, you'd have a schedule like this:

OOC
Michigan
OOC
OOC
ACC rotation
Navy
Boston College
BYE
Miami (/Southern Cal)
Georgia Tech
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
@ Southern Cal (/@Miami)

You keep playing big rivals, and get three OOC slots. It'd be the best win for Notre Dame.

That is one boring schedule !

I for one am tired of the Big Ten. I cant stand the mid west schools and the Big 12 is in a much better conference. I would rather play Texas, Florida State, Baylor, and TCU than play Pitt, syracuse, Georgia Tech, and Boston College. Talk about a snooze fest.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If the Big 10 is to expend who are they going to go after?

I believe they will go east with North Carolina a shoe in. That leaves Maryland, Rutgers,Virgina, Syracuse. All of the following being members or formermember of the AAU. If they go west can the steal Mizzo which is a perfect fit from the SEC or they are stuck with Iowa State or Kansas.

I've actually heard that North Carolina State is who they'd ask. NCSU is apparently a massive research school. Strange...

 

[Buster Bluth]

That is one boring schedule !

I for one am tired of the Big Ten. I cant stand the mid west schools and the Big 12 is in a much better conference. I would rather play Texas, Florida State, Baylor, and TCU than play Pitt, syracuse, Georgia Tech, and Boston College. Talk about a snooze fest.

I'd rather win games. Texas/Oklahoma/Florida State annually? Jesus Christ..