Superconferences & Realignment

[Whiskeyjack]

Boston College- East
Illinois- East
Indiana- East
Iowa- East
Maryland- East
Michigan- West
state- West
Minnesota- West
Nebraska- West
Northwestern- West
Notre Dame- West
Ohio- East
Penn State- East
Purdue- West
Syracuse- East
Wisconsin- East

If we had no other choice, ACC was always destination #1. Now that the ACC won't likely survive realignment, the Big 12 is next.

 

[clashmore_mike]

ohio= the school in columbus.
Ohio University= the school in Athens.

Thanks, I know about the cute little game that Hoke started. Its stupid.

 

[FLDomer]

If we had no other choice, ACC was always destination #1. Now that the ACC won't likely survive realignment, the Big 12 is next.

+1

The Big Ten and there fans come across as an unattractice fat chick that is tryen to get some loving from the Good Looking Neighbor (That's ND, for all u Mich fans reading ) aaaaannnnndddd they never gonna get it!

 

[Wolverine1997]

Good grief is that getting old.



What does your almighty leader tell you to call Michigan State?

Nothing, Hoke just calls them by their official name or just abbreviates them as state when convenient. I just call them state.

+1

The Big Ten and there fans come across as an unattractice fat chick that is tryen to get some loving from the Good Looking Neighbor (That's ND, for all u Mich fans reading ) aaaaannnnndddd they never gonna get it!

I think the word you're looking for is "their".

The B1G can survive without ND, it has since it's creation. I would like to see ND come to the B1G, so they don't **** all over their rivalries with Michigan, purdue, state and BC.

To me, joining the ACC or hoping to join it right now, would be like wanting to take a nap in a burning building. If FSU leaves, the avalanche begins.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The B1G can survive without ND, it has since it's creation. I would like to see ND come to the B1G, so they don't **** all over their rivalries with Michigan, purdue, state and BC.

Have you met any ND fans who care about our "rivalries" with Purdue, State, and BC? I haven't. I'd miss the Michigan rivalry, but I'm pretty sure a Thanksgiving game against Texas every year would help me get over that in a hurry.

To me, joining the ACC or hoping to join it right now, would be like wanting to take a nap in a burning building. If FSU leaves, the avalanche begins.

ACC isn't on the table anymore. The only thing that will force ND's hand is the rise of superconferences. If that happens, ND's headed to the Big 12.

 

[Domina Nostra]

It's a strange situation, because FSU would likely stay in the ACC if we joined, since we really would change their bargaining power TV-wise. But we would not join any conference unless the moving around forced us to do so, and it looks like FSu would be the school that caused that domino to fall.

I realize its not great football, but there are just so many TVs and fans on the Eastern seaboard, that I have trouble picture a conference picture that simply excludes that whole part of the country.

If ND joined the current ACC, what would be nice is swapping Penn State and Pitt. Pittsburgh is kind of the edge of the MW. Penn State is an eastcoast school, with tons of alumni in Philly and NY.

North
Notre Dame
Pitt [Penn State]
Boston College
Syracuse
Maryland
Virginia
Louisville
West Virginia

South
VT
Duke
UNC
Wake
NC St
Clemson
FSU
Miami

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I realize its not great football, but there are just so many TVs and fans on the Eastern seaboard, that I have trouble picture a conference picture that simply excludes that whole part of the country.

I understand the desire to maintain expose in ND's largest media markets, which was the driving factor in "ND to the ACC" before this latest round of realignment. But now, it's mostly about separating the "haves" from the "have nots" in CFB.

That enlarged ACC wouldn't have the market power to compete with the big four in a superconference world.

 

[Wolverine1997]

Have you met any ND fans who care about our "rivalries" with Purdue, State, and BC? I haven't. I'd miss the Michigan rivalry, but I'm pretty sure a Thanksgiving game against Texas every year would help me get over that in a hurry.

You do realize that ND would be playing second fiddle to Texas in that league, right?

Texas calls the shots in that conference. Which is really why Nebraska, Missouri and A&M defected. That BS network they have where they can show high school football games, is ridiculous.

I just don't see what the value of the Big 12 would be to ND.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You do realize that ND would be playing second fiddle to Texas in that league, right?

We're roughly equal in national brand value according to the few studies I've read on the subject. And I don't think past conference politics are necessarily indicative of how things will be in a superconference scenario.

Texas calls the shots in that conference. Which is really why Nebraska, Missouri and A&M defected. That BS network they have where they can show high school football games, is ridiculous.

Texas has done a good job of ensuring that it's the primary benefactor of its own brand value. The precedent it's set could give ND the flexibility it needs to do the same thing in a Super Big 12. Not necessarily a bad thing.

I just don't see what the value of the Big 12 would be to ND.

It won't regionalize ND, and it will probably give us more brand and scheduling flexibility than the B1G. There's also no bad blood between ND and the Big 12, which is more than can be said for the B1G.

 

[woomba]

The thing I don't understand is people insisting that the Big Ten is a pure mid-west conference and that the ACC is East Coast.

As a former New Yorker and a very casual college football fan until fairly recently, the impression that I always had was that the Big Ten was the de-facto top tier East Coast college football conference (mostly because of Penn State being top dog around the NE area). In fact, growing up in NYC the only college football teams I knew of were the service academies, ND, Michigan, and Penn State.

As for the ACC...I understand that the member schools hug the eastern seaboard w/ the expansion members but historically they're all southern schools - Virginia, UNC, Duke...all below the Mason-Dixon line. I'm not sure how that is a better cultural fit to ND at all.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

As for the ACC...I understand that the member schools hug the eastern seaboard w/ the expansion members but historically they're all southern schools - Virginia, UNC, Duke...all below the Mason-Dixon line. I'm not sure how that is a better cultural fit to ND at all.

The ACC is a better fit for ND academically than the B1G. But more importantly, it encompasses most of ND's major media markets:

Though it's irrelevant now, as the ACC isn't likely to survive anyway.

 

[woomba]

The ACC is a better fit for ND academically than the B1G. But more importantly, it encompasses most of ND's major media markets:

Though it's irrelevant now, as the ACC isn't likely to survive anyway.

I'm not sure what the list of the media markets prove - I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Ten pulls better numbers than the ACC in every single one of those markets listed.

I marginally agree with your point about the school profiles - although I think there are more similarities than differences between the two conferences from an academic standpoint.

 

[STLDomer]

“@GSwaim: #ND to #Big12 has more teeth today than I ever thought it could just a few weeks ago. The Irish are already going through proper channels.”

“@GSwaim: With #FSU & #ND quite possibly to the #Big12, and their precedent setting deal with the #SEC, the #B1G won't want to sit around long either.”

“@GSwaim: I'm told that #ND will jump in #Big12 very soon with Olympic sports, and then football joins after TV contract expires. #BlowsMyMind”

“@GSwaim: The #ND deal apparently was a catalyst for getting #FSU aboard all along. This thing is happening fast now for the #Big12...”

“@GSwaim:I don't know exactly how fast, but am told in the #ND athletic department that today things were "all go" for the move. #Surreal”

“@GSwaim: The time frame for #ND phasing in football could allow them to phase out contracts with #Purdue, #MSU, #GoBlue, #USC, #Stanford or #Navy.”

“@GSwaim: Virtually insure two more teams, in addition to #FSU & #ND. With #VaTech possibly #SEC bound, #Clemson is top #Big12 choice. Who's next?”

 

[Downinthebend]

What? phasing out contracts with usc and navy? I'm comletlely shocked if that is true. that can't possibly be right

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

“@GSwaim: #ND to #Big12 has more teeth today than I ever thought it could just a few weeks ago. The Irish are already going through proper channels.”

“@GSwaim: With #FSU & #ND quite possibly to the #Big12, and their precedent setting deal with the #SEC, the #B1G won't want to sit around long either.”

“@GSwaim: I'm told that #ND will jump in #Big12 very soon with Olympic sports, and then football joins after TV contract expires. #BlowsMyMind”

“@GSwaim: The #ND deal apparently was a catalyst for getting #FSU aboard all along. This thing is happening fast now for the #Big12...”

“@GSwaim:I don't know exactly how fast, but am told in the #ND athletic department that today things were "all go" for the move. #Surreal”

“@GSwaim: The time frame for #ND phasing in football could allow them to phase out contracts with #Purdue, #MSU, #GoBlue, #USC, #Stanford or #Navy.”

“@GSwaim: Virtually insure two more teams, in addition to #FSU & #ND. With #VaTech possibly #SEC bound, #Clemson is top #Big12 choice. Who's next?”

Wow... If this were the direction we were forced in, this would be my choice.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What? phasing out contracts with usc and navy? I'm comletlely shocked if that is true. that can't possibly be right

I think he's just listing our current rivals, some of which will have to go. I'm certain we'll keep USC and Navy.

Wow... If this were the direction we were forced in, this would be my choice.

Same here. One final f*ck you to the B1G.

 

[STLDomer]

That was his opinion, it also said "or" not "and"

So he envisions a Big 12 with:

Oklahoma
Texas
Kansas
Kansas St
Baylor
Iowa St
Texas Tech
Oklahoma St

TCU
West Virginia

Notre Dame
Florida St
Clemson
TBD

This may look like only 3 or 4 teams (OU, UT, FSU, ?) we really would be interested in playing but keep in mind he thinks B1G and ACC will fall too so teams like Iowa St could be forced elsewhere while others join

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This may look like only 3 or 4 teams (OU, UT, FSU, ?) we really would be interested in playing but keep in mind he thinks B1G and ACC will fall too so teams like Iowa St could be forced elsewhere while others join

He thinks the B1G is going under? Can't really see that happening.

 

[STLDomer]

In the case we move to the Big 12 I would hope out non-confrence includes: Navy, Michigan, USC/Stanford, and BC/Purdue or something like that

Navy, Michigan, Pudue, generic Big12, generic Big12, Oklahoma, generic Big12, FSU, BYE, Texas, generic Big12, generic Big12, USC

How's that for a schedule? Haha wow

Maybe the B1G does not fall but he anticipates they will be forced to make moves, probably absorb some teams from the Big East or ACC they would rather not

 

[koonja]

Why does everyone hate the big 10? Just wondering?

 

[Downinthebend]

Honestly, put us in the Big 10 and let us play USC and Miami/FSU and Stanford/Ucla every year.

 

[stlnd01]

Just wondering, who the hell is Greg Swaim?
I mean, lots of "reporters" have "sources," but on something like this I think I'd trust the ND beat reporters, and the serious national guys like Feldman, Mandel, Dodd, etc., and even a proven, well-connected Big 12 blogger like OrangeBloods, over some dude from "BigTime Sports." Especially when he seems to be way out in front of what anyone else is reporting.

 

[tadman95]

I think this whole thing sucks....... Notre Dame not an independent?! Our whole football history rose from that independence, it allowed Notre Dame to barnstorm the country, almost at will.

Being in North Carolina, I'm wondering what happens when the NBC contract runs out. I guess I'll have to buy some cable package to see a lot of the games.

Oh, the ACC isn't going to collapse. It was always a basketball conference first. Losing FSU and Clemson (if true) just eliminates a couple of play in games in the ACC tournament which was rendered irrelevant years ago when the NCAA tournament expanded.

 

[jmoodie]

If we do absolutely have to join a conference for a seat at the table, I really hope it's the big 12. If it adds FSU and ND, it accomplishes a lot of what ND would want. A conference with a presence in Texas and Florida, allows us to keep our regional recruiting in Ohio and Chicago intact, we can keep our non con with USC to play in California, and we're in a conference loaded with traditional top tier powers that also provide some natural old rivalry games. ND vs. WVU, FSU, Texas, and Oklahoma while keeping a game with USC? I'll take that as an even trade for having to play Iowa State on occassion. Obviously we'd keep Navy as one of our other non-con games.

As an added personal benefit, I live in Kansas City and my wife and most of our families are either Jayhawks or Wildcats, so the ability to see ND in the area 2-3 times per year is a pretty exciting for me.

In lieu of full membership, I'd LOVE to see a scheduling alliance with the big 12 in the short term - for obvious reasons.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

In the case we move to the Big 12 I would hope out non-confrence includes: Navy, Michigan, USC/Stanford, and BC/Purdue or something like that

We'd likely only have 3-4 OOC games per year. USC is the most important, so it gets saved. Navy is 2nd most important, and can be used as an early season tune-up. Other than that, I don't know if we'll see any of the annual rivalries continue.

ND currently strives for difficult schedules because we have to as an independent to have any shot at the title. Once we join a conference, we'll have to schedule cupcakes like everyone else to maximize our post-season prospects.

Maybe the B1G does not fall but he anticipates they will be forced to make moves, probably absorb some teams from the Big East or ACC they would rather not

That goes without saying. The big four will end up with 16 teams each. The Pac-12 and the B1G are geographically limited regarding obvious and attractive expansion teams, but it won't really matter. In the end, there will be 64 "in" teams, and then everyone else.

 

[tadman95]

64 teams

 

[stlnd01]

Honestly, put us in the Big 10 and let us play USC and Miami/FSU and Stanford/Ucla every year.

Yup.

I don't get this obsession with the Big 12. Aside from Texas and occasionally Oklahoma and/or FSU, why do we want to play these people week in, week out?
We bend over backwards to schedule games on the coasts nowadays, but this puts us in Ames, Stillwater and the wrong Manhattan on a regular basis.
The bottom half of the league is weak as hell. Also most of these schools are not renowned academic institutions.
It's not a part of the country where we have a lot of fans, or where we historically recruit all that well.
Travel's gonna suck for our Olympic sports.
It's got no exposure to our major TV markets or alumni bases.
And it will forever be Texas and the 11 (or 15) dwarves. Because Texas writes the rules of admission. And Texas can suck it.

I know we "don't like" the Big 10 around here, reasons both ancient and honorable. But in a lot of ways it makes more sense. Or we could save the ACC.

 

[STLDomer]

No one inherently likes the Big 12 idea.

It's the best we have though.

We get to play Texas, FSU, and Oklahoma and the thing that could make us give in of course the new SEC deal

I think saving the ACC was the orginal plan but the above mentioned new deal killed it

ACC would have been nice, better academics too.

ND, FSU, Miami, BC and if the ACC survived they absorb some of the Big East like Pitt likely

 

[Rhode Irish]

Other than USC and Navy, I don't really care about any of the other games. Purdue and Michigan State are utterly meaningless; we shouldn't do BC the favor; Stanford is a cool game, but there isn't much "tradition" (it would probably be my third game to save); Michigan is Michigan, which is to say they are bad human beings and I wouldn't miss them if the school closed down and we could never play them again, ever.


The Big XII is the right fit for ND. I hope we can still play USC and Navy, but none of these games are sacrosanct, IMO. Those rivalries are important, but survival is more important. Playing Texas, Oklahoma and FSU is pretty good.

 

[Downinthebend]

How bout this. Big 12 kicks out Texas Tech, Kansas State, Iowa State. They gain Miami, Duke, North Carolina, Florida State, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and Notre Dame, TCU, WVU. Thats pretty close to my dream for all sports.