Should the statue come down?

[tadman95]

Finally, someone with some decency....

Artist removes Joe Paterno's halo from Penn State mural - U.S. News

 

[kmoose]

Not a legend. Dont pretend it didnt happen. But by leaving a statue there they are showing respect for a man that should not have any respect given to him. Sit back and think, if this was your child would you want statues up if him respecting him for any reason?

And just a thought...by leaving the statue there are they ignoring that it happend?

JoePa is absolutely a legend. By leaving the statue there they are honoring 40 years of football excellence. If it came out that Frank Leahy covered up some kind of child abuse by a member of his coaching staff, 99% of us here would want his *football* legacy to be seperated from his *personal* legacy. As I said, use the statue as a teaching moment. Maybe add a plaque that details JoePa's failure to go as far as he could have, to protect those kids. You can honor his football achievements, and not act like the other stuff never happened. In fact; a plaque detailing his failures, it could be argued, would be keeping his failures in the spotlight.

 

[BobD]

Joe must go!

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

JoePa is absolutely a legend. By leaving the statue there they are honoring 40 years of football excellence. If it came out that Frank Leahy covered up some kind of child abuse by a member of his coaching staff, 99% of us here would want his *football* legacy to be seperated from his *personal* legacy. As I said, use the statue as a teaching moment. Maybe add a plaque that details JoePa's failure to go as far as he could have, to protect those kids. You can honor his football achievements, and not act like the other stuff never happened. In fact; a plaque detailing his failures, it could be argued, would be keeping his failures in the spotlight.

Sorry bud.... Completely disagree. That statue will forever be a reminder of the horror which went on inside of that football program. You talk about legacy, but every time you hear the name Joe Paterno from here on out, you won't think of the football coach...you'll think of Shrek Sandusky and the little boys and the lives that were ruined because he was too arrogant/self important to do the right thing. This is and will be his legacy today and going forward.

He's a coward and his statue should be removed Sadam style....let little kids paddle his bronze head with their sandals.

 

[RyCo1983]

He's a coward and his statue should be removed Sadam style....let little kids paddle his bronze head with their sandals.

AMEN

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Statue goes away. Program gets the death penalty. All student athletes are free to transfer with no wait time.

Football is a game.

 

[BGIF]

That's because he isn't with us anymore. ]

Tim Curley and Gary Schultz were charged in November of '11 and a judge ruled the trial could proceed December 16, '11. Paterno died January 22, 2012.

Like I said, Paterno wasn't charged. The D.A. and others actually involved with the case said Paterno wasn't an investigative target.

Many people have said if he still was, he would be charged.

Ah, there you go again. SOME legal experts (a law school professor, litigation attorney, and talking heads said:
"Legal Experts Say Paterno Could Have Faced Charges"


Huge difference between your "would" and their "could". Could is the past tense of the verb "can". Would is the past tense of the verb "will".


One of Jack McCoy's frequent lines was, "A good D.A. with a Grand Jury can get a ham sandwich indicted." That line was trite in the legal profession decades (centuries?) before "Law and Order" was conceived.



Your tearing down the statue is a whitewash. Like renovating the showers. Out of sight; out of mind.

The Plaque would serve as a constant reminder of the abomination that took place THERE and the tragedy that occurs when good men don't speak up.

PSU would be thrilled to tear down the statue rather than have to erect a constant reminder

 

[phgreek]

given it some thought...read what many of you said.

personally, I think the statue belongs in the Library. I think they should set aside a room in the Library, place the statue, and set about to tell the story, much like you'd see in a presidential library (only smaller space). The man, and his baggage are a part of the university's History...to jettison that is to fail to remind people of the lesson here...greatness is not football wins....greatness is not building a program...greatness is properly prioritizing those things in life...If you remove all ties to Paterno, you lose this costly lesson to passage of time...the lesson stays relevant with the man's statue present...but I don't see how it helps anyone to leave it out on the field.

 

[BGIF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by In Lou I Trust

Not only that but the football program gained nothing from the sexual abuse scandal/cover up.

I disagree. You don't think that this event would have changed the recruiting landscape at all??? Why do you think Joe Paterno decided to cover it up? He did it (at least in part) to protect his football team. He knew that if this got out it would have a negative impact on the program....

goldandblue,

That may have been the fear then but the numbers don't bear it out. Below are the Rivals Recruiting Rankings from '13 back to '02. PSU is currently having one of the best years ever in that 12 year period. They are currently 15th and currently have a 3.50 Average Star Ranking. They've only had higher than 3.50 twice, 3.63 in '06 and 3.55 in '10. Their '13 3.50 Ave Star Ranking is higher (right now) than OU, FSU, AUB and 104 other Div 1 Programs. PSU is only .003 Average Star Ranking Points behind Alabama, .005 behind Michigan, and .009 behind Notre Dame.


Let's be candid there would have been negative newscoverage associated with Sandusky's activities had it been revealed by PSU in '98 or any earlier year. BUT it would NOT have the volume of negative coverage it has gotten in the last 6 months because there would NOT have been the added Administrative Coverup. Law Professors, talking heads, and fans would be praising PSU's Adminstration for standing up and stopping the situation unlike OSU, USC, etc posturing.

Contrary to popular preception, Paterno's firing may be the reason for the increased recruiting success to date. Paterno recruited 232 athletes in those 12 years with an Ave Star Rating of 3.20 but there only 5 - 5 Stars and none since '06. For two decades recruits have expressed concern whether he would be there for all their years as players. Quite a few high profile players didn't care for his style of play and looked elsewhere. Now there's a new coach and despite the tragedy, kids that grew up dreaming of going to PSU are still going to go there.

Overall Student applications may decline next year but I'll bet PSU still has a full freshman class of students.

Year	Rank	Qty	Avg Stars
13	15	14	3.50
12	51	19	2.79
11	35	16	3.13
10	12	20	3.55
9	24	27	2.96
8	43	14	3.00
7	24	21	3.14
6	6	24	3.63
5	25	19	3.05
4	29	25	3.00
3	93	11	3.27
2	21	22	3.36
			
Ave	31.50	19.33	3.20

 

[BGIF]

Statue goes away. Program gets the death penalty. All student athletes are free to transfer with no wait time.

Football is a game.

Why stop with Football?

If negative coverage would have effected football it would also effect basketball, baseball, etc, - all sports. The predator was a football coach but there were no claims he assaulted football players. This was a cover up involving the Athletic Director of all sports, the V.P of the University AND the President of the University.

IF there is a lack of institutional control (and I believe based on my reading that it existed) does that lack of institutional control (protect the University's name) not extend to all sports?

Football is the cash cow that pays for baseball, LAX, track, swimming, etc. Take away the revenue and you cripple those other programs anyway. You also cripple the hotels, restaurants, ticket tackers, program sellers, parking lot attendants, cops, and city and county tax base that make their living off big time college football. Do you punish 100,000 people for the actions of a few? Why stop there with the Clery violations have the DOEd shut down the University for 4 years. Let the students transfer anywhere else they want to go. Or would that be unfair to the teacher's?

I don't condone the action. Personally I'd double kneecap (elbows and jaws as well) all the participants and let them figure out how to feed themselves through a straw for the rest of their lives. But we're too civlilized to do that. Would throwing hundreds of people out of work that had no involvement be civilized?

There are criminal and civil court issues to deal with this situation. Prosecute the participants to the fullest extent of the law with no early parole. And let the endowment bear the brunt of maximum punitive damages.

 

[Kansas Irish]

NCC News

They're changing the name.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Tear the statue down!!

 

[Me2SouthBend]

From the Mothership

Jerry Sandusky scandal -- NCAA president Mark Emmert signals heavy sanctions for Penn State - ESPN

 

[nlroma1o]

NCC News

They're changing the name.

I didn't even know they called their little ticket camp "Paternoville"

It's a start... i guess...

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

@Ben_Jones88: Banner plane: "Take down the statue or we will" just flew over State College. Unreal.

 

[NDPhilly]

Wow. That's insane. It's gotta come down.

 

[BobD]

@Ben_Jones88: Banner plane: "Take down the statue or we will" just flew over State College. Unreal.

Wow!

The do need to take it down.

 

[nlroma1o]

@Ben_Jones88: Banner plane: "Take down the statue or we will" just flew over State College. Unreal.

Well, thats one of the most unique ways to threaten the administration... lol

I wonder who hired the plane though?

I hope for Penn States sake, it was just a group of alumni who are simply normal, sane, human beings that know right from wrong.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Ex-player says Paterno dropped him for rape allegation - abc27 WHTM More hypocrisy of Joe Paterno.

 

[NDBoiler]

I'm not that closely involved with any of that situation, so it is only the generic moral abhorrence of bad acts which might motivate my opinion. In that I am not in favor of publicly honoring anyone who is publicly known to have major moral failure. But frankly "America" does this all the time with our don't-give-a-damm-attitude about "winners" [in sports or in economics or in politics].

One thing seems clear to me though: if Penn State itself would like to project itself as a "now-cleaned-up-and-new" institution, they would get rid of the statue [without any hoopla surrounding the act] and make a quiet professional mea culpa press release saying that they had done so and why. Their public relations people have to be sweating over this right now. They need to create a clean sweep act, but probably fear rich football-crazed alumni backlash. It will be interesting to see what they decide. Even if they do take it down, that act will almost certainly be a "practical" one rather than a moral one.

As usual, OMM is sage and wise with his wordsmithing. I will say that what struck me was that there would be extreme irony in what is in bold above if this is what they are truly thinking, since that is essentially the mindset that caused this issue to begin with. That is putting " the good of the program" or "the good of the university" above what is actually right. I for one hope this isn't what they are basing their decision on again!

 

[NDPhilly]

Here a picture of the banner from today.

 

[porterbela]

Paterno had the chance to do the right thing. If he had, it would have been a thing in the past and left at that. It would have been bad but Penn St. football program would be looked upon as having done the right thing and would be praised for doing things how they should be done. However, led by Paterno, Penn St. chose to cover up the incident and destroy lives of young boys. Take the statue down. If you were in the shoes of a boy that was raped by Sandusky, would you want a statue up to honor someone that enabled what has happened to you? I'd think not.

 

[porterbela]

Here a picture of the banner from today.

What does the banner say? I can't read it.

 

[BobD]

What does the banner say? I can't read it.

Take the statue down or we WILL

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Take the statue down or we WILL

Good eyes broseph.... I still can't make it out.

 

[TDHeysus]

as it was stated earlier in this thread, if they are going to take down the statue then then they need to vacate wins.

IMO, if your going to take down the statue and vacate wins, they shouldnt half-*** it, they need to vacate ALL PATERNO WINS from day one to the end. if they are not prepared to do that, then leave the statue. If the Paterno name is so stained in the minds of everyone then any victory that paterno was a part of is stained, going back to day one, before sandusky was even there.

to quote my man Joe Clark, "if your gonna do it, then do it expeditiously!"

 

[ulukinatme]

Well, thats one of the most unique ways to threaten the administration... lol

I wonder who hired the plane though?

No clue, but the plane came out of Ohio. This was from the ESPN article:

On Tuesday, a small plane pulled a banner over State College reading, "Take the statue down or we will." The plane is licensed to Air America Aerial Ads of Genoa, Ohio. A person who answered the phone at Air America declined to give his name or identify who paid for the flight.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

as it was stated earlier in this thread, if they are going to take down the statue then then they need to vacate wins.

IMO, if your going to take down the statue and vacate wins, they shouldnt half-*** it, they need to vacate ALL PATERNO WINS from day one to the end. if they are not prepared to do that, then leave the statue. If the Paterno name is so stained in the minds of everyone then any victory that paterno was a part of is stained, going back to day one, before sandusky was even there.

to quote my man Joe Clark, "if your gonna do it, then do it expeditiously!"

Great movie....Great Quote....and very appropriate for the situation.

 

[ulukinatme]

This scandal has been crazy from day 1. Before this report came out, I had a little sympathy for ol' Joe. I figured...he's an old guy, he's probably more of a figure head than anything at this point...he reported it to his superiors, they dropped the ball. No, it goes beyond that though. The fact it was all covered up...very bad. It makes the OSU tattoo scandal look like child's play. This messed up the lives of many kids, and to try and sweep it under the rug...it's pretty damning. I think the Paterno name, despite all the good it stood for over many years, needs to be erased from college football lore and the statue should come down.

 

[RyCo1983]

I disagree with vacating wins....take it a step further.
REVERSE THE RESULTS. Make them losses. Forfeit the wins.

And melt that piece of crap's likeness down into slag. Make little pendants for all of the douchebag Ped State Joepa supporters who have their heads placed squarely between their cheeks.