Sept 19 | South Florida

[317Irish]

When the circumstances of a loss are that freakish, it almost doesn't bother me. We were clearly being punished by God for something there.

Charlie Weis’ contract seems like a strange one for God to feel the need to intervene, but perhaps...?

 

[garyasher]

The real story here, Lou picked his kid to beat us and he did.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Comment about our OLine vs Duke: OK I'm late but just found time to watch the game in Slow Mode.

I watched each play in slow/stop motion for the first so-called "bad" half. The line was not bad at all, and that agrees with what the outside OLine evaluators have since said. Our line tended to stuff the pass rushers and generally stone the run defenders but only those within their "reach" on the play design. The Line therefore did its job almost all of the time, but either the defense was selling out or support blockers weren't getting the right guys blocked. In this so-called bad half, the OLine was fine. As this was first game and against a good DLine, we should be optimistic.

Now I want to talk about Tommy Kraemer. Why? Because someone on this site seems to have a strange prejudice against him, giving him extra hard knocks (the quote this time was: "Kraemer was simply toyed with at times." )

As this seemed very unlikely to me, and certainly did not stand out to my eyes during the game, I particularly reviewed every play that the big man had in the so-called bad half. Here's what you'll see if you do that:
A. NO one runs through Kraemer to get at Book or Kyren ON ANY PLAY.
B. Big Tommy puts the starting DT playing over him out of the game at the 11 minute mark of the second quarter, and that guy doesn't return against him all half. A fresh guy 95 replaces 54.
C. Big Tommy is on the ground at the end of only two plays in the first half. All other plays have him still pushing or running or both in contact with the opponents. The first of the two grounded plays occurs at about 10 minute mark of the second quarter on Kyren's run touchdown (over the Hainsey/Kraemer position.) Here Patterson is in the process of losing his block but Tommy reaches in and (illegally but REALLY hard to see and call) grabs the opponent and drags him to the ground. Some might say that this is a cheat; I say that it's part of the Dark Arts of lineman play in the Meathouse.
D. The second on-the-ground play occurs at about 2:30 left in the second quarter on Kyren's long run. (a screen I believe.) Here Tommy does his brush and run thing, hustles downfield, confronts a corner or a safety and knocks him flat, falling over him. ... doubtless "being toyed with."
E. Tommy is off balance a little on one play where his opponent (95) delays and then tries to speed rush into a gap left by the Hainsey pass block beside them. Tommy two-step chases, is slightly off balance, but administers a collision which knocks 95 at least as far off the collide point as Tommy is. This player does not "make a play" against us due to this.
F. The second off-balance play of the half (and the last) is when his player stunts to the opposite side, no one picks him up, Tommy gets over there to find the guy crossing the scrimmage line. The play is going right so this guy will probably not figure in it, but Tommy hooks his arm and pushes him back towards the pile and out of the play entirely. It happens fast. Tommy also spins a little when he hurls him. But no harm and nothing called for the backside hook.

I'm belaboring you with this because someone on here harbors a (to me weird) prejudice against one of our really good players. We're a good Oline, and ALL of them are good, maybe even particularly Tommy Kraemer.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

OMM, anytime someone implies we don't have the best OL in the nation, post film review:

 

[stpeteirish]

im seeing a backup qb that was 7 for 49 and a td.

Yeah, the #2 QB, Johnson was far more impressive than the starter,McLOud, last week. Threw the ball better as well.

How quickly Scott jettisons McLoud will have a big impact IMO on how bad we beat them.

McLoud started last year after the Blake Barnett "era" fell by the wayside. I believe BB was sidelined bu a phantom injury around midseason. BUt I think they lost every game with McLoud at QB last year; he isn't very good.

Johnson is a grad transfer from Alcorn A & M. They also have Fortin, a transfer from North Carolina who was unavalable last week.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Comment about our OLine vs Duke: OK I'm late but just found time to watch the game in Slow Mode.

I watched each play in slow/stop motion for the first so-called "bad" half. The line was not bad at all, and that agrees with what the outside OLine evaluators have since said. Our line tended to stuff the pass rushers and generally stone the run defenders but only those within their "reach" on the play design. The Line therefore did its job almost all of the time, but either the defense was selling out or support blockers weren't getting the right guys blocked. In this so-called bad half, the OLine was fine. As this was first game and against a good DLine, we should be optimistic.

Now I want to talk about Tommy Kraemer. Why? Because someone on this site seems to have a strange prejudice against him, giving him extra hard knocks (the quote this time was: "Kraemer was simply toyed with at times." )

As this seemed very unlikely to me, and certainly did not stand out to my eyes during the game, I particularly reviewed every play that the big man had in the so-called bad half. Here's what you'll see if you do that:
A. NO one runs through Kraemer to get at Book or Kyren ON ANY PLAY.
B. Big Tommy puts the starting DT playing over him out of the game at the 11 minute mark of the second quarter, and that guy doesn't return against him all half. A fresh guy 95 replaces 54.
C. Big Tommy is on the ground at the end of only two plays in the first half. All other plays have him still pushing or running or both in contact with the opponents. The first of the two grounded plays occurs at about 10 minute mark of the second quarter on Kyren's run touchdown (over the Hainsey/Kraemer position.) Here Patterson is in the process of losing his block but Tommy reaches in and (illegally but REALLY hard to see and call) grabs the opponent and drags him to the ground. Some might say that this is a cheat; I say that it's part of the Dark Arts of lineman play in the Meathouse.
D. The second on-the-ground play occurs at about 2:30 left in the second quarter on Kyren's long run. (a screen I believe.) Here Tommy does his brush and run thing, hustles downfield, confronts a corner or a safety and knocks him flat, falling over him. ... doubtless "being toyed with."
E. Tommy is off balance a little on one play where his opponent (95) delays and then tries to speed rush into a gap left by the Hainsey pass block beside them. Tommy two-step chases, is slightly off balance, but administers a collision which knocks 95 at least as far off the collide point as Tommy is. This player does not "make a play" against us due to this.
F. The second off-balance play of the half (and the last) is when his player stunts to the opposite side, no one picks him up, Tommy gets over there to find the guy crossing the scrimmage line. The play is going right so this guy will probably not figure in it, but Tommy hooks his arm and pushes him back towards the pile and out of the play entirely. It happens fast. Tommy also spins a little when he hurls him. But no harm and nothing called for the backside hook.

I'm belaboring you with this because someone on here harbors a (to me weird) prejudice against one of our really good players. We're a good Oline, and ALL of them are good, maybe even particularly Tommy Kraemer.

I'm avoiding work right now so I just looked in on ND's first three drives against Duke. I have opinions!

First drive:

1- Fake zone read to the left. I hate the fake zone read plays... anyway, it's a pin and pull with the guards. LBs are reading run all the way, crash down, and simply blow by Kraemer and Banks. Williams coulda shoulda bounced this outside where there was room thanks to Duke's aggression. When people are talking about blocking scheme changes this would be Exhibit A. ND pulled the guards and it was a total failure.

2-Pass play that looks like it's set up to throw deep. Tremble runs a short cross drawing the LBs except the wide side OLB who shifts into the middle. There are no receivers there so he comes down and pressures Book. I have no idea if Book should have gone deep but he missed his opportunity with the short cross which was supposed to be read #2, I think.

3-Dump off to Williams that's dropped. Book has plenty of time. I think he expected Williams' route to be a little wider here. Maybe because of the MLB in the area. Or maybe Williams messes up. Or maybe it's just a rushed throw. OL did great here but something else went wrong. The play call gave Williams a one on one with a MLB and a lot of room to work with. There's a good chance this is a first down with a clean catch and run.

Second drive:

1-Another run on first down. The OL blocking was OK but didn't clear anybody out. I think Duke read the blocking scheme and got to the middle quickly. Williams comes straight down into traffic even though ND had numbers on the left side.

2-ND loads up on the line and runs another fake zone read. Duke ignores Book as a running threat and crashes the edges again. I don't know if Ian has the authority but based on the defensive alignment this should have been a throw the left side. It looks like Duke screwed up the alignment with 2 defenders on 3 ND receivers and were bailed out by the ND play call. OL didn't have much of a chance to have any effect on the play.

3-Great OL play (and nice block from Williams who take out a free rusher up the middle) is squandered by a Tremble drop. Duke rushes 6 but can't get any pressure and would have been torched for a huge gain. This was a perfect play call, BTW.

Third possession:

1-ND tries another pin and pull, this time using the guards heading right as a misdirection with a run left. Tyree is the RB and I think it was supposed to try and break a big play with some misdirection and his speed but it's a disaster. Duke comes straight down the spaces vacated by the guards but Tyree does a nice job to get back to the line of scrimmage with no help. Exhibit B for a pin and pull failure.

2-Duke goes to a three man front to hide the rushers. Chris Tyree is fooled badly and there's a free rusher off the left edge. This one is zero percent on the OL (although Hainsey kind of got beaten as well).

3-It's 3rd and 20 so Duke gives Book the underneath throw and he immediately takes it.

All told I guess the OL did play better than I thought at the time and did fine against Duke's DL. It was the linebackers giving the Irish fits.

I think it's safe to say that Duke wouldn't be running that defense if they respected the downfield passing game and that ND really shouldn't be pulling Kraemer and Banks against a small, fast defense.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I agree with this info and conclusions. Good job.

 

[Irishize]

I'm avoiding work right now so I just looked in on ND's first three drives against Duke. I have opinions!

First drive:

1- Fake zone read to the left. I hate the fake zone read plays... anyway, it's a pin and pull with the guards. LBs are reading run all the way, crash down, and simply blow by Kraemer and Banks. Williams coulda shoulda bounced this outside where there was room thanks to Duke's aggression. When people are talking about blocking scheme changes this would be Exhibit A. ND pulled the guards and it was a total failure.

2-Pass play that looks like it's set up to throw deep. Tremble runs a short cross drawing the LBs except the wide side OLB who shifts into the middle. There are no receivers there so he comes down and pressures Book. I have no idea if Book should have gone deep but he missed his opportunity with the short cross which was supposed to be read #2, I think.

3-Dump off to Williams that's dropped. Book has plenty of time. I think he expected Williams' route to be a little wider here. Maybe because of the MLB in the area. Or maybe Williams messes up. Or maybe it's just a rushed throw. OL did great here but something else went wrong. The play call gave Williams a one on one with a MLB and a lot of room to work with. There's a good chance this is a first down with a clean catch and run.

Second drive:

1-Another run on first down. The OL blocking was OK but didn't clear anybody out. I think Duke read the blocking scheme and got to the middle quickly. Williams comes straight down into traffic even though ND had numbers on the left side.

2-ND loads up on the line and runs another fake zone read. Duke ignores Book as a running threat and crashes the edges again. I don't know if Ian has the authority but based on the defensive alignment this should have been a throw the left side. It looks like Duke screwed up the alignment with 2 defenders on 3 ND receivers and were bailed out by the ND play call. OL didn't have much of a chance to have any effect on the play.

3-Great OL play (and nice block from Williams who take out a free rusher up the middle) is squandered by a Tremble drop. Duke rushes 6 but can't get any pressure and would have been torched for a huge gain. This was a perfect play call, BTW.

Third possession:

1-ND tries another pin and pull, this time using the guards heading right as a misdirection with a run left. Tyree is the RB and I think it was supposed to try and break a big play with some misdirection and his speed but it's a disaster. Duke comes straight down the spaces vacated by the guards but Tyree does a nice job to get back to the line of scrimmage with no help. Exhibit B for a pin and pull failure.

2-Duke goes to a three man front to hide the rushers. Chris Tyree is fooled badly and there's a free rusher off the left edge. This one is zero percent on the OL (although Hainsey kind of got beaten as well).

3-It's 3rd and 20 so Duke gives Book the underneath throw and he immediately takes it.

All told I guess the OL did play better than I thought at the time and did fine against Duke's DL. It was the linebackers giving the Irish fits.

I think it's safe to say that Duke wouldn't be running that defense if they respected the downfield passing game and that ND really shouldn't be pulling Kraemer and Banks against a small, fast defense.

Good analysis. You’re right, the lack of success w/ pulling likely led to more zone schemes. Eichenberg for one was excited about running zone scheme. Hopefully, we see even less pin & pull tomorrow and see the OL get a chance to really gel for the first half.

 

[irishff1014]

I believe the running backs are going to have a big day.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I believe the running backs are going to have a big day.

Yeah, because he Ian can't throw any further than them...

But on a serious note, specific note about RBs..
I think today will be Tyree's first big day. He'll show casual ND fans who he is.

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah, because he Ian can't throw any further than them...

But on a serious note, specific note about RBs..
I think today will be Tyree's first big day. He'll show casual ND fans who he is.

My take has nothing to do with Book. I do think Book does have a large yard completion today. I think with a week under their belt the O-line will be more comfortable with the new blocking scheme. And not to mention USF isn't Duke's front 7 either.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

My take has nothing to do with Book. I do think Book does have a large yard completion today. I think with a week under their belt the O-line will be more comfortable with the new blocking scheme. And not to mention USF isn't Duke's front 7 either.

My first part was in italics (mocking other posters). Tis' sarcasm lol.

I agree with you though. Tommy and Co going to ground and pound a lot today. No reason to show off the playbook too much.

 

[PraetorianND]

Let’s go Irish!!!! ☘️

 

[Irish8248]

What's with all the players out today? Keys Bracey Ovie Liufau Jahmir Smith Simon etc ...

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

Clark too. Beat writers have noted Davis was throwing with Pyne and Book before a walk on took #3 reps.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Notre Dame announces that the following players will be out for today's games against USF:<br><br>TaRiq Bracy<br>Brendon Clark<br>Kyle Hamiltoin<br>Marist Liufau<br>Shayne Simon<br>Lawrence Keys<br>Ovie Oghoufo<br>Jahmir Smith<br><br>Only Hamilton is confirmed as an injury absence. Unclear on the other seven.</p>— Pete Sampson (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1307364209685082116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Riddickulous]

What's with all the players out today? Keys Bracey Ovie Liufau Jahmir Smith Simon etc ...

COVID

 

[zelezo vlk]

That's a damn shame, they definitely should let Avery Davis play emergency QB.

 

[Irish YJ]

Hope Hamilton heals up quick. Will miss him.

The lack of "injury" status for the rest is pretty scary given what we all believe to be true.

 

[zelezo vlk]

This is exactly why the kids come to ND: getting bumped for Golf

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

 

[NDBoiler]

Clark too. Beat writers have noted Davis was throwing with Pyne and Book before a walk on took #3 reps.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Notre Dame announces that the following players will be out for today's games against USF:<br><br>TaRiq Bracy<br>Brendon Clark<br>Kyle Hamiltoin<br>Marist Liufau<br>Shayne Simon<br>Lawrence Keys<br>Ovie Oghoufo<br>Jahmir Smith<br><br>Only Hamilton is confirmed as an injury absence. Unclear on the other seven.</p>— Pete Sampson (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1307364209685082116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Any word is USF has any players out?

 

[calvegas04]

There you go Book!

 

[Irish YJ]

Great start.

 

[NDBoiler]

Nice start

 

[irishtrooper]

Looking good. Line is doing well. Book too

 

[NDBoiler]

2 nice runs by Kyren.

 

[bkess8]

GO IRISH! A lot better start this week. Way more aggressive!

 

[irishtrooper]

Boom

 

[NDBoiler]

Now that’s how you start a game

 

[irishff1014]

I would say that was good opening drive.

 

[Riddickulous]

GREAT opening drive