Sep 7 | Michigan

Patulski

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Exactly. They've beaten us when we've clearly been the better team and they beat us in 2011 after we dominated them for most of the game.

I think we've turned a corner in the program, where what happened in 2011 won't happen again in the Kelly era. They basically out willed us at the end of that 2011 game. Now, whether that was because Gray was injured, or he and the entire secondary were tired because we didn't have enough depth, I don't know. But we will not be out willed by any team, because the toughness and the quality of our depth- while not Alabama-like yet- is very strong.

Last year, they moved the football in the second half, but when they got within scoring distance we shut them down. We did that because we were tougher willed as a program and had more depth than previous years. This year will be no different. In fact, it is possible we'll be even better.
 

ulukinatme

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So they've lost Jake Ryan - Captain, Courtney Avery - Captain, and no longer have Denard Robinson? I'm feeling more and more confident about this game.

You shut your mouth! You're bad luck as it is, no need to be jinxing us here.

I'm 100% confidant that Avery is gonna be back for this game. 2 weeks means he'll be practicing a few days before the game, he's not going to miss that. There have been athletes that have come back in less than 2 weeks from a scope no problem. I expect Ryan will somehow muster a miraculous recovery and his ACL will be fully healed by the game too, although that one is more of a stretch.
 

ACamp1900

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Nice, ND fans starting to pencil in a win vs. Michigan as if they haven't learned that lesson yet...

the season must be right around the corner...
 

ACamp1900

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This will tell you my thoughts on this game (no matter the year)...

two years ago ND lead by 17 points going into the fourth correct?? (It was something like that)... UM made a key third down on a drive they later scored on and at that moment I lost it (while up 17) and went off about how ND is gonna lose this game, on and on bat **** crazy...... My wife brings it up every now and then and has said she'd never seen that in me before, and that it didn’t' make sense in the moment because "ND had the game won"...





....


yeah...
 

TomHaverford

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He's a captain. Do you guys just hand that honor out on campus or what? How's a senior captain in the defensive back field not a loss?

Get lost.

**** Michigan (I'm drunk).

he wasn't a starter last year and he wouldn't have been this year either. Blake Countess and JT Floyd were the starting CB's last year, Blake got hurt game one and Ray Taylor went in and started every game of the season.

Ray Taylor and Blake Countess are the starting CB's. Delonte Hollowell outperformed Avery so badly at CB this spring/fall and Dymonte Thomas outperformed him so badly at nickel that they moved Avery to provide depth at safety.

Just because he was voted a captain doesn't make him a great player. He's not. Anybody here who has watched Michigan over the last 3 years aside from just the Notre Dame game should be able to tell you this. Honestly, he's just not that good of a player. He gets beat badly in coverage, and often. Not a really good tackler either. Anybody catch Michigan's secondary get shredded to pieces without JT Floyd and Blake Countess against South Carolina? That was Courtney Avery getting beat up and down the field most of that game.
 

T Town Tommy

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I saw all I needed to with Michigan in the season opener last year. Can't tackle, can't block, can't cover, can't... well you saw it too.

RTR
 

woolybug25

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he wasn't a starter last year and he wouldn't have been this year either. Blake Countess and JT Floyd were the starting CB's last year, Blake got hurt game one and Ray Taylor went in and started every game of the season.

Ray Taylor and Blake Countess are the starting CB's. Delonte Hollowell outperformed Avery so badly at CB this spring/fall and Dymonte Thomas outperformed him so badly at nickel that they moved Avery to provide depth at safety.

Just because he was voted a captain doesn't make him a great player. He's not. Anybody here who has watched Michigan over the last 3 years aside from just the Notre Dame game should be able to tell you this. Honestly, he's just not that good of a player. He gets beat badly in coverage, and often. Not a really good tackler either. Anybody catch Michigan's secondary get shredded to pieces without JT Floyd and Blake Countess against South Carolina? That was Courtney Avery getting beat up and down the field most of that game.

That is absolutely not true. He will start the as soon as he is healthy enough to do so. Wouldn't be surprised if its against us either. Don't know where you are getting that from.
 

TomHaverford

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That is absolutely not true. He will start the as soon as he is healthy enough to do so. Wouldn't be surprised if its against us either. Don't know where you are getting that from.

That is 100% absolutely true. I think I'd know lol, I'm a Michigan fan.

The only way Avery will become a starter is if there are some injuries or if Jarrod Wilson really sucks. He'll definitely play, but he's not a starter.
 

TomHaverford

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So ESPN got it wrong when they stated he was a projected starter?

ESPN gets a lot of stuff wrong, so that wouldn't surprise me. You're talking about the same network that employs people like Steven A. Smith and Skip Bayless.

Jarrod Wilson is the starting FS. Unless he gets injured or just falls flat on his face, that's his job. Thomas Gordon has a kung-fu lock on the strong. Blake Countess and Ray Taylor are your starting CB's. Stribling is the back-up to Countess and Delonte Hollowell is the back-up to Taylor. When they go into Nickel package, Countess is the starting nickel, Taylor takes Countess' CB spot and Hollowell takes Taylor's. Dymonte Thomas is the back-up nickel.
 

woolybug25

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That is 100% absolutely true. I think I'd know lol, I'm a Michigan fan.

The only way Avery will become a starter is if there are some injuries or if Jarrod Wilson really sucks. He'll definitely play, but he's not a starter.

Funny, because everyone on Mgoblog disagrees with you. ESPN disagrees with you, Freep said that Wilson "elevated to starter because of injury" and every scUM friend I have disagrees with you.

Finally... get bent ahole. Go back to a scUM board you freak.

*uck Michigan
 
K

koonja

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Doesn't matter anyways. You could put Leon sandcastle back there and Tommy's still going to carve you guys like a turkey.
 

TomHaverford

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Doesn't matter anyways. You could put Leon sandcastle back there and Tommy's still going to carve you guys like a turkey.

We'll see. Tommy Rees isn't a bad player at all, in fact I think he's better than a lot of ND fans give him credit for. ND fans seem to bash him on the internet mercilessly. Having said that, he's hardly the kind of QB that can grab a team by the throat, put them on his back and win you a game by himself, it's not like he's Andrew Luck or something.
 

woolybug25

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Fall Camp tidbits from Mgoblog. (notice, pre Avery injury)

For awhile now, after camp, I call up a buddy who's been around the program (full time support position) for quite a few years (since late-Carr era). The past couple of years, I've made a thread to share some of that summary on here for those who care. It's straight word of mouth, so a disclaimer there. And unfortunately much of this year's info has become common knowledge. In fact, we joked because we (MGoCommunity) know more about the team this year (without seeing one practice) than we ever have. It's just the information age that we live in. So hats off to MGoBlog, because much of the stuff you read here that comes off as opinion is very close to accurate. That said, nothing too ground breaking. Also, there just hasn’t been much debate this year.



Thoughts? Thoughts.



QB – Gardner is as good as the hype. He’s gotten “twice as good” over the summer and has really taken charge of the offense. Still presses a bit under pressure and makes the “oh no” throws that he needs to eliminate (I believe we saw one in a scrimmage video). Plays like Kapernick or a thin Cam Newton. Was told that if he has a big year, he’s talented enough to go to the NFL. But if he has a big year and stays, he could very well win the Heisman next year. I specifically asked about Morris. He looks good, and NO DECISION has been made on his status. Redshirt could be an option if all he'd get is mop up duty. He's not that far ahead of Cleary that Cleary can't take those snaps in a blowout. Probably won't make that call until the situation presents itself...and that's going off of what Hoke's done in the past. (Why say he is or isn't going to play when you don't know if you even will have the opp? What if we don't get up big until late in the 4th when it's best to just hand the ball off and run the clock out?)



RB – Fitz has his job and it’s HIS job. More dedicated and determined. A lot of people don’t know, but he played with a lot of pressure last year...wanted to play well and go pro to provide for his family. Tried to hit a homerun on every single play. More determined now and extremely motivated by the Green hype. Not even close most days. Green plays overweight and could very well redshirt this year. However, he’s the most improved RB over the fall camp period. Still worried that he’s Grady part II, but it’s WAAAY too early to say that Smith also motivated by the Green hype. The other returners are all better than last year, but so is the OLine.



WR – Gallon is the favorite target, but Gardner is starting to spread the ball around a lot more. Chesson and Reynolds look to replace Darboh who was the clear #2 WR. Darboh was also a great blocker. That said, expect Jackson to be used in running situations. Dileo is the “Novak” of the team. Freshman WRs have potential, but still learning the offense and how to run routes and/or block. None can be trusted right now, but at least 1 may play special teams because he could help in the 2nd half of the season (on offense).



TE – No real news...Butt is better than people realize, we could have the best TE group in the conference.



OL – Better than we’ve had since the Carr-era. Already better than last year and not even close. Here’s the C debate, same as last year. Miller is the better snapper, Glasgow is the better blocker. Expect Miller to win as Mealer (who was the better snapper) won last year. Glasgow and Bryant are in a dead heat for the LG spot. Coaches seem to want Bryant to win so Braden can be first tackle off the bench and Glasgow can be first interior OL (regardless of position) off the bench. Bryant doesn’t play C. If Glasgow is ever in at C, look for us to go under Center more than Pistol or from the Gun.



DL – Most DL depth charts that have been reported are true...Clark was working inside for the Dime package. We do have a situation package where Ojemudia, Clark and Charlton all play on the DL. I guess it’s our version of the NASCAR package the NY Giants have. Still trying to “earn the right to rush 4.” Better, but not there yet. Then again, it’s harder when Lewan and Schofield are on the other side.



LB – Ross may be the best player on the defense. He’s also improved over the summer. Morgan is the MLB despite rumors of Bolden. Gordon will be the SLB. RJS-Bolden-Beyer are in the 2nd group and expect Bolden and Beyer to play close to starter’s snaps. GMat is rotating this year more than he has at any point in the last 2 years.



DB – Still sorting out CB. Countess is the only lock. (personal thought – can we get a question to GMat to provide clarity on the depth chart at CB?). Avery is playing both (CB and S), it’s not even a big deal...it stems from the SCar game where we didn’t have guys ready that knew multiple positions. So when Floyd was out and guys went down...we had Wilson running around trying to learn on the fly. We gave up too many big plays in the secondary and coaches felt like it was because we we’re playing 10.5 on 11 because there wasn’t enough flexibility. Remember, the guys that we did have were ALL young. So they were focusing on learning THEIR position before expanding their roles. THAT is why Avery is the one bouncing around, because he’s got the most experience and knows the CB and Nickel spots. There is less separation here than anywhere else on the team. Need more consistency from the “up-and-comers.”



K/P – We’re going to be A-okay.

One of the best things I got was that all of the young guys are truly good character people. By Lewan's example, Tom Brady's story, etc. they're learning what a special place Michigan is and they aren't in a hurry like most freshman are. They're fighting to truly get better, knowing that it may be a couple of years before they're called on. I was told in "3-4 years this team could be SCARY" because you're going to have guys that truly know the system and they're going to be starving to show what they can do...and for once, they're going to be TALENTED! I personally think this next 5 year period, starting this year, could be one of the best 5 years periods any of us have ever seen at Michigan. Hope I'm right!
 

Patulski

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Told my diehard Michigan friend (his wife played Bball there) about Avery.

His response was "a corner playing safety isn't that big of a deal...not a big loss"

You know what I find interesting? Nobody is talking about the loss of Denard Robinson. Defenses had to always account for Robinson, a guy who could take it to the house at any given time.

Robinson holds 9 of the top 10 Michigan All Time "Total Yards In A Game" records. He is the #2 All Time Leading Rusher for Michigan, but averaged 1.2 yards more per carry than the all time leader. Even as they moved him to tailback last year, he was the 15th ranked runner in the country, rushed for 1266 yard and averaged 7.2 yards per carry. Against Ohio State, he rushed for 122 yards on 10 carries, including a 67 yard run. The rest of the team ran for 14 yards on 17 carries.

He ran a 4.34 40 yard dash in the NFL combine. Wicked fast.

They're gonna miss him.
 

Whiskeyjack

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They're gonna miss him.

Skunkbears blame much of last season's woes on the mismatch of Borges' scheme and Robinson's skillset. They're still stuck with Borges, but Shoelace is gone, so like any good fan base would, they're trying to rationalize that as a net positive.

What saddens me a bit is that Robinson could have been one of the all-time greats had he remained in a system that took advantage of his insane elusiveness. Heismans won, NCAA records broken, etc. I'm not sad to see him go, but man, what could have been...

Gardner may become a better all-around QB some day, but he'll never be the schematic nightmare that Robinson was.
 

Kak7304

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We'll see. Tommy Rees isn't a bad player at all, in fact I think he's better than a lot of ND fans give him credit for. ND fans seem to bash him on the internet mercilessly. Having said that, he's hardly the kind of QB that can grab a team by the throat, put them on his back and win you a game by himself, it's not like he's Andrew Luck or something.

Not surprising someone named Thomas would doubt Reesus.
 

Irish Insanity

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You know what I find interesting? Nobody is talking about the loss of Denard Robinson. Defenses had to always account for Robinson, a guy who could take it to the house at any given time.

Robinson holds 9 of the top 10 Michigan All Time "Total Yards In A Game" records. He is the #2 All Time Leading Rusher for Michigan, but averaged 1.2 yards more per carry than the all time leader. Even as they moved him to tailback last year, he was the 15th ranked runner in the country, rushed for 1266 yard and averaged 7.2 yards per carry. Against Ohio State, he rushed for 122 yards on 10 carries, including a 67 yard run. The rest of the team ran for 14 yards on 17 carries.

He ran a 4.34 40 yard dash in the NFL combine. Wicked fast.

They're gonna miss him.

I agree, but Gardner has wheels too. Not to the point of Denard, but he will have no problem running for 10 or more if we don't respect that. One thing we have in our favor is that Hoke likes his QBs in the pocket almost all the time. He made Denard play pocket passer even tho he sucks at it.
 

Patulski

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What saddens me a bit is that Robinson could have been one of the all-time greats had he remained in a system that took advantage of his insane elusiveness. Heismans won, NCAA records broken, etc. I'm not sad to see him go, but man, what could have been...

Agree. Still, Robinson holds the NCAA season record for rushing yards by a quarterback, tied the record for most consecutive 100 yard rushing games by a QB, and is the first player in NCAA history to pass for 2,500 yards and rush for 1,500 yards in a single season. He also holds the season record for most yards gained by a QB. Had he had 4 years in RRod's offense, he would have challenged Pat White's record for most career yards gained by a QB.
 

]\/[GoBlue

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Agree. Still, Robinson holds the NCAA season record for rushing yards by a quarterback, tied the record for most consecutive 100 yard rushing games by a QB, and is the first player in NCAA history to pass for 2,500 yards and rush for 1,500 yards in a single season. He also holds the season record for most yards gained by a QB. Had he had 4 years in RRod's offense, he would have challenged Pat White's record for most career yards gained by a QB.

List of NCAA football records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
FBS: 4,495 – Denard Robinson, University of Michigan, 2009–12, 723 rushes

He has that record too.
 
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