SEC Scheduling

[NCND]

Personally, all the talk from Big Game Bob shows exactly why there is so much difference in the mindset of his program vs. Bama and Saban. He measures his program's success on beating an SEC school and Saban measures his success by winning NCs. Losing to Oklahoma last year really didn't mean much to the overwhelming majority of Tide fans, and that doesn't mean they are disrespecting Stoops or Oklahoma. The goal every year for the Tide is to win a NC, not win a BCS bowl game. Big difference Bob. Maybe the two teams meet this year in the playoff when it matters more.

LOL

 

[irishog77]

Personally, all the talk from Big Game Bob shows exactly why there is so much difference in the mindset of his program vs. Bama and Saban. He measures his program's success on beating an SEC school and Saban measures his success by winning NCs. Losing to Oklahoma last year really didn't mean much to the overwhelming majority of Tide fans, and that doesn't mean they are disrespecting Stoops or Oklahoma. The goal every year for the Tide is to win a NC, not win a BCS bowl game. Big difference Bob. Maybe the two teams meet this year in the playoff when it matters more.

Eh, I've heard Bob talk plenty about winning championships. And after all, he's played for what, 4? And was robbed of playing for another. I think he definitely measures the success of his program on winning it all, not just on beating some team from some conference.

I think Bob, like a lot of people and football fans, was/is simply tired of hearing "ess eee cee, ess eee cee," and isn't willing to bow to the altar of that conference.

 

[T Town Tommy]

That's the same mentality that meatchicken fans have about the big integer championship.

"Well we don't really care about beating team x, we just want to win the B1G."
"So what if we lost our BCS bowl game! We won the B1G and that's what really matters."

I'm not buying that T Town. That's textbook Fair Weather Fan. "I care when my team wins it all, but when we don't I revert to apathy. "

I would liked to have seen Bama win but the loss really didn't matter in the end for anything other than BGB's bragging rights. I guess most Bama fans are spoiled. Crazy or not, if it isn't for the title, most Tide fans believe the season was a failure. And last year was just that.

 

[Rack Em]

Eh, I've heard Bob talk plenty about winning championships. And after all, he's played for what, 4? And was robbed of playing for another. I think he definitely measures the success of his program on winning it all, not just on beating some team from some conference.

I think Bob, like a lot of people and football fans, was/is simply tired of hearing "ess eee cee, ess eee cee," and isn't willing to bow to the altar of that conference.

Bob should graduate his student-athletes. He frequently forgets that.

 

[NCND]

OU has won championships as well. Suck it up Bama fan. They lost. The " they didn't care" excuse anit valid at all.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Eh, I've heard Bob talk plenty about winning championships. And after all, he's played for what, 4? And was robbed of playing for another. I think he definitely measures the success of his program on winning it all, not just on beating some team from some conference.

I think Bob, like a lot of people and football fans, was/is simply tired of hearing "ess eee cee, ess eee cee," and isn't willing to bow to the altar of that conference.

I don't mind BGB at all. I find him kinda funny most times he opens his mouth. Kinda like the Ole Ball Coach's illegitimate child.

 

[T Town Tommy]

OU has won championships as well. Suck it up Bama fan. They lost. The " they didn't care" excuse anit valid at all.

disagree there for the most part but your opinion so I can respect that.

 

[irishog77]

Bob should graduate his student-athletes. He frequently forgets that.

True enough. And I don't think Bob is running his program like an ess eee cee program to maybe, hopefully, beat a team from that conference. He's doing it to win it all.

 

[Rack Em]

I would liked to have seen Bama win but the loss really didn't matter in the end for anything other than BGB's bragging rights. I guess most Bama fans are spoiled. Crazy or not, if it isn't for the title, most Tide fans believe the season was a failure. And last year was just that.

Doesn't that bother you though? Shouldn't that bother the players who are putting on the line each week? And constantly covering up the cash and cars????

I would be disappointed if ND fans ever got to that point. That means that football dominates the university. There's no loyalty to the school. You might as well cheer for the Falcons then because college football should be about loyalty to YOUR school. And not just when your school wins, but all the time.

That's everything* wrong with CFB. But that's another debate for another time.

*Well most of everything. Mark Emmert is the rest of it.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Doesn't that bother you though? Shouldn't that bother the players who are putting on the line each week? And constantly covering up the cash and cars????

I would be disappointed if ND fans ever got to that point. That means that football dominates the university. There's no loyalty to the school. You might as well cheer for the Falcons then because college football should be about loyalty to YOUR school. And not just when your school wins, but all the time.

That's everything* with CFB. But that's another debate for another time.

*Well most of everything. Mark Emmert is the rest of it.

It's the mindset though for Bama fans. They just expect to win it all every year and when they don't they see the season as a failure for the most part.

 

[irishog77]

OU has won championships as well. Suck it up Bama fan. They lost. The " they didn't care" excuse anit valid at all.

disagree there for the most part but your opinion so I can respect that.

What is there to disagree with, Tommy? That OU has won championships? That bama lost to Oklahoma? Or that the "they didn't care" excuse ain't valid?

 

[T Town Tommy]

What is there to disagree with, Tommy? That OU has won championships? That bama lost to Oklahoma? Or that the "they didn't care" excuse ain't valid?

Pretty simple 77... most Bama fans will tell you the season ended with the Auburn loss. Sure, I think most would have liked to beat OU to have something positive moving in to this season, but in the big picture for Bama fans, the loss really didn't mean much.

 

[irishog77]

It's the mindset though for Bama fans. They just expect to win it all every year and when they don't they see the season as a failure for the most part.

You do realize that the school began playing football in 1892, and even under the bama fan counting system that exists nowhere else in the entire universe, that bama fails 85-90% of the time, right?

 

[T Town Tommy]

You do realize that the school began playing football in 1892, and even under the bama fan counting system that exists nowhere else in the entire universe, that bama fails 85-90% of the time, right?

Sure. And ND, even with their counting system, fails the same. Just giving you the perception of how the Bama fan of today measures success. That's all. The goal is the same every year since Saban won his first one. Win it all or it's a failure. Is that right to expect such high expectations? Is it right to label a season as a loss if you don't win it all? Probably. But that's the mentality of the Bama fan under Saban. Fair or not... it is what it is.

 

[irishog77]

Pretty simple 77... most Bama fans will tell you the season ended with the Auburn loss. Sure, I think most would have liked to beat OU to have something positive moving in to this season, but in the big picture for Bama fans, the loss really didn't mean much.

That's fine. And I can agree with that, to an extent.

But be sure not to ever include any bowl game success for a team or conference (other than the title game) in an argument to help demonstrate anything. You can't have it both ways.

Personally, I've never given credence to bowl game success (or lack thereof) if teams aren't playing for the title. You never know what a team's mindset is going into that game. The regular season matters more and is a better indicator.

But in ess eee cee logic, bowl game success has equated to being the best conference. Like this year, in the ncaa tournament, 2 teams made it to the final 4, and a third (utjr) made it to the sweet 16. Despite the conference's piss poor play and abysmal showing for 32-34 games of the season, they then became the best basketball conference in all of America. If you don't believe me, just ask ess eee cee fans.

 

[gkIrish]

Are we getting on Bama fans for viewing a season as a failure if they don't win the championship?

I view every Notre Dame season the same way and so do many other ND fans so not sure what the big deal is.

However I kind of see it as two tiers of success:

A) Did we win the championship?

B) If we didn't, did we exceed or meet expectations based on talent and other circumstances?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Pretty simple 77... most Bama fans will tell you the season ended with the Auburn loss. Sure, I think most would have liked to beat OU to have something positive moving in to this season, but in the big picture for Bama fans, the loss really didn't mean much.

And that's called rationalizing.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Personally, all the talk from Big Game Bob shows exactly why there is so much difference in the mindset of his program vs. Bama and Saban. He measures his program's success on beating an SEC school and Saban measures his success by winning NCs. Losing to Oklahoma last year really didn't mean much to the overwhelming majority of Tide fans, and that doesn't mean they are disrespecting Stoops or Oklahoma. The goal every year for the Tide is to win a NC, not win a BCS bowl game. Big difference Bob. Maybe the two teams meet this year in the playoff when it matters more.

I remember the Citrus Bowl in 2011 against MSU and it didn't look like a consolation game to me. After that game, Saban was quoted saying "We wanted to define this team as winners".

Now commenting on the OU game, Saban's remarks lead one to believe that consolation game winners ≠ winners.

So which is it?

 

[T Town Tommy]

That's fine. And I can agree with that, to an extent.

But be sure not to ever include any bowl game success for a team or conference (other than the title game) in an argument to help demonstrate anything. You can't have it both ways.

Personally, I've never given credence to bowl game success (or lack thereof) if teams aren't playing for the title. You never know what a team's mindset is going into that game. The regular season matters more and is a better indicator.

But in ess eee cee logic, bowl game success has equated to being the best conference. Like this year, in the ncaa tournament, 2 teams made it to the final 4, and a third (utjr) made it to the sweet 16. Despite the conference's piss poor play and abysmal showing for 32-34 games of the season, they then became the best basketball conference in all of America. If you don't believe me, just ask ess eee cee fans.

Can't speak for the rest of the SEC fans. But in Bama's case, I live it and see it every day.

 

[irishog77]

Sure. And ND, even with their counting system, fails the same. Just giving you the perception of how the Bama fan of today measures success. That's all. The goal is the same every year since Saban won his first one. Win it all or it's a failure. Is that right to expect such high expectations? Is it right to label a season as a loss if you don't win it all? Probably. But that's the mentality of the Bama fan under Saban. Fair or not... it is what it is.

Yes, I want ND to win the Natty every single year. And I'm disappointed when they don't.

But there is literally no historical evidence to support any team winning it all every year, in any sport, for 120+ years. Then throw in coaches, injured players, immaturity, luck, and a plethora of other factors, and the evidence is furthered that no team can win it all every year.

I'm not telling you what your expectations should be. But your expectations are wrong when you believe the impossible is possible.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I remember the Citrus Bowl in 2011 against MSU and it didn't look like a consolation game to me. After that game, Saban was quoted saying "We wanted to define this team as winners".

Now commenting on the OU game, Saban's remarks lead one to believe that consolation game winners ≠ winners.

So which is it?

His comments there were directed more towards the failure of the team in 2010 to win the title. It is an overwhelming opinion by most in Bama land that the 2010 team was his most talented team and for them to not win the NC was a huge disappointment. For them to finish the 2011 season by beating MSU in the ground was a sort of validation for them.

 

[Ndaccountant]

His comments there were directed more towards the failure of the team in 2010 to win the title. It is an overwhelming opinion by most in Bama land that the 2010 team was his most talented team and for them to not win the NC was a huge disappointment. For them to finish the 2011 season by beating MSU in the ground was a sort of validation for them.

So, he used the bowl game to validate they were "winners"?

If the game was simply a consolation game, how could it prove anything?

 

[T Town Tommy]

So, he used the bowl game to validate they were "winners"?

If the game was simply a consolation game, how could it prove anything?

Again, it was meant more for the 2010 team than anything. The way they destroyed MSU in that game probably proved to them more than anything that Saban was correct in the fact that they underachieved in 2010. Winners... yes. NC winners....no.

But that game did set them up for their next big runs to the titles. Validation? Who knows. Motivation? Without a doubt.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Again, it was meant more for the 2010 team than anything. The way they destroyed MSU in that game probably proved to them more than anything that Saban was correct in the fact that they underachieved in 2010. Winners... yes. NC winners....no.

But the point is, they used that MSU game as proof. But it was a bowl game, which according to Saban, is pretty much meaningless. Ergo, it cannot prove anything. Unless, it isn't meaningless.......

 

[T Town Tommy]

But the point is, they used that MSU game as proof. But it was a bowl game, which according to Saban, is pretty much meaningless. Ergo, it cannot prove anything. Unless, it isn't meaningless.......

Motivation IMO. Plain and simple. They pissed away a title in 2010, made up some ground in 2011, and started their run to back to back in 2012.

Even Saban states that winning the NC every year is ridiculous. But he typically follows that up with the fact that that's the expectation and that's what the goal is. Now we can all measure success or failure differently, but it's better to have the "title or nothing mentality" than not.

1. Win the SEC championship.

2. Win the NC.

Short of that, it's disappointing to most Bama fans.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't care if it's true or not that SEC teams mysteriously don't care about playing in their BCS bowl game. I don't buy it... because when they win, they seem to give a lot of shit and use it to remind everyone else how they're so much better than them. It's only if they lose a Sugar Bowl in embarrassing fashion that all of a sudden it "didn't matter" and the team "didn't care." We heard the same thing from ALLGATOR... only AFTER his team got destroyed. So it could be true that they don't care and it's just pure coincidence that all of this "meh" comes out only following the loss... but even if that's the case I reject it because to any unbiased 3rd party observer that's a totally ridiculous and invalid stance to take.

This myth that teams "don't care" started being perpetuated in 2009 when Alabama lost embarrassingly to Utah. And then Ohio State beat Arkansas. And then #21 Louisville whipped #3 Florida. And then Oklahoma smacked Alabama.

The reason why the almighty SEC must perpetuate the myth that they "don't care" about the Sugar Bowl is that it is the lone opportunity for a decent "at-large" team from another conference (often a minor one in the case of Utah and Louisville) to take a shot at a top SEC team. When the SEC team gets smoked on their home turf in their conference's own BCS game it pokes a hole in the myth that SEC > all and that a PAC12 champion would finish 6th in the SEC or whatever bullshit propaganda E-SEC-PN or Pawwwwwwl or whoever is peddling.

SEC teams have lost 4 out of their last 5 Sugar Bowl, the lone win coming via Tebow-led Florida against Kelly-less Cincinnati. 3 out of those 4 losses haven't even been close games... the SEC team was beat soundly by a team they were supposed to walk over.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Expectations should be based on what the current state of the program is. In Bama's current case, it should be to win the NC every year. In a case like ND, maybe the current expectations are different based on where the Irish program is.

End of the day for Bama fans right now, it's title or bust. Anything else is a disappointment. Realistic? No. Does it matter to the Bama fan? No.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Motivation IMO. Plain and simple. They pissed away a title in 2010, made up some ground in 2011, and started their run to back to back in 2012.

Even Saban states that winning the NC every year is ridiculous. But he typically follows that up with the fact that that's the expectation and that's what the goal is. Now we can all measure success or failure differently, but it's better to have the "title or nothing mentality" than not.

1. Win the SEC championship.

2. Win the NC.

Short of that, it's disappointing to most Bama fans.

That's fine and if you want to take as your measuring stick, that's your call.

My only beef is that Saban clearly valued the 2011 game, which worked well for him and Bama. But, the game against OU is just "consolation"? He can't have it both ways and I personally view this as a way to protect the SEC image. BGB was running his mouth before and after the game and the outcome provided BGB with an even bigger platform to talk. It's in Saban's and the SEC's best interest to downplay this, which they are. After all, the SEC wants two teams in the playoffs and that would be much harder to politic for if BGB was right all along......

 

[T Town Tommy]

That's fine and if you want to take as your measuring stick, that's your call.

My only beef is that Saban clearly valued the 2011 game, which worked well for him and Bama. But, the game against OU is just "consolation"? He can't have it both ways and I personally view this as a way to protect the SEC image. BGB was running his mouth before and after the game and the outcome provided BGB with an even bigger platform to talk. It's in Saban's and the SEC's best interest to downplay this, which they are. After all, the SEC wants two teams in the playoffs and that would be much harder to politic for if BGB was right all along......

Saban valued the 2011 game for an entirely different reason. And it worked. And Saban knew he blew the Auburn game last year and it cost himself, and his ego, the chance for three in a row. To compare the OU game to the MSU game is meaningless. Two different games at two different places in the state of the program.

Now, I don't think Saban gives a rat's ass what BGB thinks. He makes his statements based on his own team and what he needs to motivate them to be better. If Bob Stoops had issues with what Saban said, I am sure Saban could care less. It's less about Bob and OU and more about Saban and Bama. Bob doesn't seem to grasp that.

 

[Irish#1]

Tommy,
Always appreciate your insight and comments. I hold no personal grudges against you, Bama or the SEC, but you're just trying to rationalize now. You aren't winning this one.