Opinions/Discussions on Guns

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Cackalacky

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Has anyone else here been in a position like this?? (One where your in position to safe someone's life, but the act invovles endangering yourself??)

Maybe a discussion for another thread but yeah...

Life-guarding. I saved a young man's life who outweighed me by 100 lbs. I almost drowned myself and had not flotation device readily available. Not gun related, though. I would do it again in a heart beat, but it scared the holy crap out of me.

That teacher at Sandy Hook saved about 20 kids by sacrificing herself. I do not believe she was armed.

There are heroes out there. I agree most human's natural tendency is to save one's self initially, but I do think altruism is a positive motivator in general human society.
 

ACamp1900

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Life-guarding. I saved a young man's life who outweighed me by 100 lbs. I almost drowned myself and had not flotation device readily available. Not gun related, though. I would do it again in a heart beat, but it scared the holy crap out of me.

That teacher at Sandy Hook saved about 20 kids by sacrificing herself. I do not believe she was armed.

There are heroes out there. I agree most human's natural tendency is to save one's self initially, but I do think altruism is a positive motivator in general human society.

When water is involved is where I have my finest moments here too... twice I have helped/saved a person in deep waters... but I am an excellent swimmer, it's probably my best physical trait.,, so that was easy.

I have also found myself in the exact situation decribed here,... well not exact, it wasn't at 4:00am, but other than that i have been around beatings that were potentially life threatening/ending more than once... I have honestly reacted different each time... can't say why really, it is just what it is...

anyway, it's a curious topic.
 
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Cackalacky

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When water is involved is where I have my finest moments here too... twice I have helped/saved a person in deep waters... but I am an excellent swimmer, it's probably my best physical trait.,, so that was easy.

I have also found myself in the exact situation decribed here,... well not exact, it wasn't at 4:00am, but other than that i have been around beatings that were potentially life threatening/ending more than once... I have honestly reacted different each time... can't say why really, it is just what it is...

anyway, it's a curious topic.
Does fighting off an alligator count? Cause I have done that....
 

kmoose

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So the Marine was a wimp for drawing his weapon? Why fight fair when you can fight to win, this wasn't a school yard fight. This Marine used his weapon to prevent further bodily harm to the woman (or possibly worse) and to prevent any bodily harm to himself, how is this not a good thing or that big of a deal, I bet the woman getting the **** kicked out of her would disagree. Just because he was a Marine does not make him invincible in hand to hand combat.

That's not what I'm saying, at all. What I'm saying is that the pro-gun crowd cannot hold this example up as a situation where an armed civilian stopped a rape, and the difference was that he was armed. In other words, they are trying to create the impression that this woman would have been raped, had someone not been carrying a gun. The fact of the story is that the good samaritan stopped the rape, just by intervening verbally. The only difference the gun made was to stop the (assumed) fist fight that would have followed. I am for gun ownership, but let's debate it honestly and not try to stretch examples to mean something that they don't.
 

Patulski

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Buster you made some very good points. But just like you said anything can be bought on the black market. So they will still be able to get larger clips. 1 month waiting list would be a great start.

According to this site, the price of an M16- a banned assault weapon on the black market is $10,000.00+. And if you don't believe that price, go try to buy one. Good luck.

I don't think anybody can afford that. And the M16 supply/price is proof that banning weapons does work. When's the last time an M16 was used in a mass murder, or any shooting for that matter?

The problem is that there are now so many AR-16's out there that it would take awhile for the supply to run out. Banning the clips and rounds would be a good start.
 
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FLDomer

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That's not what I'm saying, at all. What I'm saying is that the pro-gun crowd cannot hold this example up as a situation where an armed civilian stopped a rape, and the difference was that he was armed. In other words, they are trying to create the impression that this woman would have been raped, had someone not been carrying a gun. The fact of the story is that the good samaritan stopped the rape, just by intervening verbally. The only difference the gun made was to stop the (assumed) fist fight that would have followed. I am for gun ownership, but let's debate it honestly and not try to stretch examples to mean something that they don't.

Where does it say rape? It says, it stopped the beating of the woman, I am only talking about article about the marine. The facts of the story were reported, a good samaritan who happen to have CCW prevented the woman from being beaten any further. It may have stopped a potential fist fight but it also stopped the man from continuing to beat the woman and help him until authorities arrived. I wasn't posting it to promote gun ownership but rather to say not all stories involving guns are bad ones.
 

kmoose

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Where does it say rape? It says, it stopped the beating of the woman, I am only talking about article about the marine. The facts of the story were reported, a good samaritan who happen to have CCW prevented the woman from being beaten any further. It may have stopped a potential fist fight but it also stopped the man from continuing to beat the woman and help him until authorities arrived. I wasn't posting it to promote gun ownership but rather to say not all stories involving guns are bad ones.

The man stopped beating the woman the minute that the samaritan yelled at him.

“I said ‘stop’ and he starts coming towards me and that`s when I drew on him. He started getting closer and I said ‘get down on the ground,’” Blackmore said.

The minute that the guy said "Stop", the man stopped beating the girl and refocused his attention on the marine. I wasn't meaning to take a swipe at your story, and I absolutely agree that not all stories involving guns are bad. I just think this is the kind of story that people(in general, not you in particular) take liberties with, and claim that the girl would have been beaten to death, if not for the gun the samaritan was carrying.
 

FLDomer

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The man stopped beating the woman the minute that the samaritan yelled at him.



The minute that the guy said "Stop", the man stopped beating the girl and refocused his attention on the marine. I wasn't meaning to take a swipe at your story, and I absolutely agree that not all stories involving guns are bad. I just think this is the kind of story that people(in general, not you in particular) take liberties with, and claim that the girl would have been beaten to death, if not for the gun the samaritan was carrying.

Ok, say the attacker beat the **** out of the Marine, do you think he would have just chilled on the women he was previously beating?? All I'm saying is the gun was the trump card and squashed any further violence. The hypothetical talk is getting old for me. I see these facts: a woman is being beaten, Samaritan steps in and stops, distracting the attacker, Samaritan draws weapon to prevent bodily harm to himself, attacker is held until police arrive, woman leaves with no further harm, attacker leaves unharmed and arrested for his crime, and Samaritan leaves unharmed and stopping further harm.
 
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ACamp1900

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I have lost a niece to a murder and a good family friend lost both of his parents in a home invasion. A firearm could have made all the difference in either situation. (Yes the key word is COULD) I honestly wonder if those advocating the banning of large clips and weapons have ever dealt with something like that.

I know this, when the day comes that someone breaks down my door with a mind of killing my wife and daughters I want as much firepower as possible…
 

FLDomer

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I have lost a niece to a murder and a good family friend lost both of his parents in a home invasion. A firearm could have made all the difference in either situation. (Yes the key word is COULD) I honestly wonder if those advocating the banning of large clips and weapons have ever dealt with something like that.

I know this, when the day comes that someone breaks down my door with a mind of killing my wife and daughters I want as much firepower as possible…

+1
 

chicago51

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You guys don't have to worry about the assault weapons ban, it is not going to happen.
 

Corry

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Ok, say the attacker beat the **** out of the Marine, do you think he would have just chilled on the women he was previously beating?? All I'm saying is the gun was the trump card and squashed any further violence. The hypothetical talk is getting old for me. I see these facts: a woman is being beaten, Samaritan steps in and stops, distracting the attacker, Samaritan draws weapon to prevent bodily harm to himself, attacker is held until police arrive, woman leaves with no further harm, attacker leaves unharmed and arrested for his crime, and Samaritan leaves unharmed and stopping further harm.

If the attacker had a gun, the women would have died. Guns are the worst, but unless we're getting rid of all of them, citizens need to protect themselves.
 

FLDomer

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If the attacker had a gun, the women would have died. Guns are the worst, but unless we're getting rid of all of them, citizens need to protect themselves.

Well guns will never be rid of completely, so arm up! ;) And as a hunter, I totally disagree that "Guns are the worst". I can think of a lot "worst things"...cancer, AIDs, a Michigan fan...
 

irishpat183

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If the attacker had a gun, the women would have died. Guns are the worst, but unless we're getting rid of all of them, citizens need to protect themselves.

A gun can't do anything without someone pulling the trigger.

People acting like idiots is the problem. Not guns, not chesseburgers, not fast cars....but people.


And you can't legislate the stupid/crazy outta people.
 

FLDomer

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We must ban all guns in the military. That way, we can prevent mass shootings like this in the future.

Pass legislation now!

I thought the same thing when I saw this report! Im gonna write a letter to Feinstein right now!!
 
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Cackalacky

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I have lost a niece to a murder and a good family friend lost both of his parents in a home invasion. A firearm could have made all the difference in either situation. (Yes the key word is COULD) I honestly wonder if those advocating the banning of large clips and weapons have ever dealt with something like that.

I know this, when the day comes that someone breaks down my door with a mind of killing my wife and daughters I want as much firepower as possible…

I don't like this argument. I too have lost multiple family members to guns, but the family members were the one's who did the shooting on other family members, and no amount of available defensive firepower or larger clips would have stopped either of those incidents. And I have thought about it ......a lot actually over the last 20 years I have been without them. A rocket launcher, flame thrower, hand grenade or 60 round magazine would not have made a hill of beans.

If its a home invader, are you gonna sit in your easy chair all day and all night packing heat? If you are in public, are you gonna notice the random guy with a Tech-9 in his jacket pocket? One armed citizen might be able to stop a robbery but what about a scenario like what happened to Gabby Giffords where no one knew who the shooter was and there were openly armed people everywhere after she was shot..... anyone could be the shooter and anyone could have been shot (Chaos).

The whole tact of banning specific fire arms and large clips is not the way to go. The problem I see is the gun restriction argument has two indefensible points. On one side is we need guns to protect ourselves from those with guns. More guns is not the solution. The other side is we need to get rid of guns to protect ourselves from those with guns so they cant get them. The bad guys will get the guns anyway. Sure it might cost more and there is always a black market. How about the manufacturers? What would this do to their business?

Banning guns has worked in other countries and I think we could stand to take a look at how they do that and see what might work here. I think the USA could stand to do that with a lot of things from public transportation to private business. But lets also be real, we are not Israel where the teachers are armed and the threat of a bomb blowing up everyday are very real. Our problems are petty crimes, hunting accidents, road rage, drug and alcohol induced domestic disputes, and people with mental disorders who want to take out as many people as possible at one time before ending their own life.

I understand both arguments and they are both flawed significantly. There is not a clear cut answer for either way. I do believe it is constitutional to regulate arms due to the initial qualifying clause in the 2nd amendment (which apparently is not applicable anymore since 2008). The 2nd amendment does not guarantee you a right to keep up an arms race with the US government, so to argue otherwise is asinine and I think even the constitutional literalists can see how poorly the SCOTUS botched that interpretation. I do believe reasonable regulation is possible and needed.
 

irishpat183

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I thought the same thing when I saw this report! Im gonna write a letter to Feinstein right now!!

Don't worry, I'm sure she's already working on legislation.


Remember, the reason that military members can have guns is that they are "trained" and more "responsible"......
 
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Cackalacky

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Yes. Government and public overreaction is the theme of our times

If you got that out of that brief article..... IDK man.... might be time to take a break. It was a simple report on a marine shooting two other marines before killing himself. Ironical.....
 

irishpat183

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If you got that out of that brief article..... IDK man.... might be time to take a break. It was a simple report on a marine shooting two other marines before killing himself. Ironical.....

So now I need to take a break because I'm scared for my safety!!!!!

There are military members running wild with guns shooting people up! It happens everyday! All over the world!

I mean, what is it gonna take for people to see that we need to ban all guns in the military NOW!

If this marine didn't have a gun, those poor people wouldn't be dead.


(I hope you see where this is going)
 

irishpat183

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You mean tweeting a photo of John Lennon's bloody glasses isn't a good way to analyze national firearms policy? I'm shocked, shocked I say!

or a bunch of hollywood celebs talking to a camera in black and white?

I mean, who BETTER on the subject of firearms than the hollywood elite?
 
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