Rumored Violations

[NDohio]

I thought that he didn't cheat on the tests, but he let other cheat off of him a bunch of times?

That was brought up at one point but quickly shot down.

 

[Irish#1]

I wasn't going to bring this up, but there are some statements Kelly has made that don't quite fit in to the status quo narrative of this whole thing.

Some revolve around when the individuals knew they were being investigated. If this thing happened and they investigated these guys from July 29th to August 15th without giving these guys any indication that they were investigating them, including the girl who most accounts have as being the one that tied all of the incidents together, so it was sprung on everyone with no warning, that would be one thing.

Now I have never been involved in an incident like this at ND, it is true. But I sat on a oversight board at two other institutions of higher learning, and I cannot think of a case in the general area of academic dishonesty where the subject of the investigation didn't have an idea that they were being investigated. In fact, I always found it funny, the worse the case, it seemed, the more paranoid the party became. Just like clockwork. It was kid of humorous; but I digress . . .

Anyway. He didn't have any idea until Jack called him, yet he or his staff had no contact with any of the individuals, even in notifying them that they shouldn't practice. I understand why he would conduct himself the way he is, but there are just some things that are off.

Carried forward to yesterday, when Kelly had the ultimate gem. To paraphrase, Kelly wouldn't have a problem with any of the four attending a position meeting, but to the best of his knowledge, none had. After Anna Hickey reported a KVR citing . . .

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/PibDMGxiyJw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There was always a rumor that DD was involved with the EG incident. But since then most sources, including DD and his dad have indicated that his entire incident was a problem with a statistics class that rendered him ineligible from a low GPA. That is not the same as academic dishonesty.

In addition to people calling all of this scandals, salacious bastards! I don't get the erroneous urge to call DD a past cheater! I would like to believe this is all something more than stereotypes, but I have an acquaintance who is a ND grad and a big member of one of the Alum chapters, and this person is balls to the wall, "Fire Kelly," and get rid of all "the substandard student athletes." Of which the demon Golson would be first!

I don't get it. NDSean, I don't see you as anything like this person, but I just can't get over the inaccuracies in these stories that are working against Kelly and these kids!

Things make you go hmmmm.....

If DD's issue is with a class and a low GPA, then why would he be involved with this issue, unless his is for both? If for both, then he's pretty bad at cheating if he's failing!

 

[Irish#1]

Next I had a friend who decided to copy code from another friend. Copying code is probably the most gray area of plagiarism, because there IS a most efficient way to write code, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that two sections of code would be virtually identical. They both fought it and were told by the professor "sign this and take a zero on the assignment or at the hearing I'm going to get both of you Fs in the class and kicked out of school."

I guarantee you that well over 50% of program code is copied and used over and over. Why reinvent the wheel is the programmers mantra!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A Colin's show yesterday (I don't know about today) was fabulously supportive. If he is doing it two days in a row that makes me wonder.

About Golson, there were awful rumors from some alumni circles, the gut feeling I got was that Golson was a barbarian, (just like Tony Rice), i.e., they had an uncomfortable racist edge to them. So I don't know if we will ever know the straight scoop on Everett. The story has been permanently fouled by others on both sides with agendas.

I do find all of this fascinating, however.

 

[pkt77242]

A Colin's show yesterday (I don't know about today) was fabulously supportive. If he is doing it two days in a row that makes me wonder.

About Golson, there were awful rumors from some alumni circles, the gut feeling I got was that Golson was a barbarian, (just like Tony Rice), i.e., they had an uncomfortable racist edge to them. So I don't know if we will ever know the straight scoop on Everett. The story has been permanently fouled by others on both sides with agendas.

I do find all of this fascinating, however.

What? The straight scoop is he cheated (most likely multiple times) and had to sit out a semester because of it. What is difficult to understand about it?

 

[enrico514]

I just always assume a football coach is lying when he's speaking to the media.

Same here. The Lynch saga made that clear to me when it comes to Kelly!

 

[Emcee77]

Haha... No.

Oh really? I had heard that too. So that was a false rumor, about him letting someone cheat off him?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Things make you go hmmmm.....

If DD's issue is with a class and a low GPA, then why would he be involved with this issue, unless his is for both? If for both, then he's pretty bad at cheating if he's failing!

This is kind of non specific; but I have bolded what I think is your question; the answer is multiple :

This issue stands on its own merits, per du Lac. It is its own incident. Before he was academically ineligible. For a fact. Nothing indicated there was any disciplinary action above being warned he wouldn't be eligible, and then continuing on to flunk a class. For that he was suspended a semester. Grades are different than honor code violations.

He was involved in this present issue because he was, per his father, the student caught turning in an assignment that was an attachment of an email to him. Which led to the speculation that someone else wrote the assignment for him. Remember the university says the issue was raised on July 29th and the kids were not interviewed until August 15th.

What does for both mean to you? Everett's cheating, or cheating when Everett did, and cheating now? This investigation has nothing to do with Everett's test taking fiasco. That was stated.

But the people who want Kelly gone, so they can get back to the business of building a Midwestern Ivy, are trying to link it. So are any racists that get in the converstion. As are the click-whores, would be click whores, and the opposing fans that would say anything false about ND, just to feel all self-righteous. What was it last week that the troll tried to insist there was an incident of "rape" on this campus, with a football player?

And that is such bull shit.

But LAX and Wizard are exactly right. Just as many have noted, the NCAA writes rules to their favor for broad interpretation. So does the University of Notre Dame. If you don't think there is a wide range of activities that would not ever be considered academic dishonesty in almost any occurrence at an undergraduate level, with the power and control of the Honesty Council, they could still result in dismissal from ND.

I will add to this : The rich and powerful don't usually get any extra favors. From the Crosby twins, to Eddie, Jr., whose father withdrew a million dollar grant on his expulsion, to a number of players who moved right on to the pro's. ND has been pretty tough, and even handed on it. But the results of this situation are not encouraging.

 

[PANDFAN]

I thought that he didn't cheat on the tests, but he let other cheat off of him a bunch of times?

Haha... No.

EXACTLY remember BK said during his freshman year he was struggling w/ academics, believe his statement was he was having difficulty w/ the rigors of being a student-athlete at ND and that he wanted him to take that year and get stronger in the classroom

 

[OCIrish]

I thought that he didn't cheat on the tests, but he let other cheat off of him a bunch of times?

I had read that, and originally thought that as well, until I talked to the student, who was pretty sincere in his story. Again, I don't know if it's completely true or not, just passing along what a student passed on to me.

 

[kmoose]

Low GPA might make you ineligible to compete in varsity athletics, but wasn't DD temporarily dismissed from the University itself? That indicates something more severe than low grades.

He was suspended, yes. But at the Swarbrick/Jenkins presser, someone asked about Davaris being in trouble academically for a second time, and Swarbrick was quick to point out that talking about academic fraud, vs. low grades, were two completely separate issues.

 

[IrishLax]

I guarantee you that well over 50% of program code is copied and used over and over. Why reinvent the wheel is the programmers mantra!

Yeah, fo realz. Like every basic sorting algorithm, etc. Like I said.... very, very gray.

 

[IrishLion]

I thought that he didn't cheat on the tests, but he let other cheat off of him a bunch of times?

Haha... No.

That was brought up at one point but quickly shot down.

I had read that, and originally thought that as well, until I talked to the student, who was pretty sincere in his story. Again, I don't know if it's completely true or not, just passing along what a student passed on to me.

I think it was our very own IrishSpartan who came out and said that Golson had been caught letting others copy his work.

It was met with skepticism and no reputable sources ever commented on that angle, at least not that I ever saw. The closest we had was when Golson was asked straight up by Andy Staples if he cheated, and he responded with a "yeahhhhh, something like that," which could mean any number of things in terms of "cheating."

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think it was our very own IrishSpartan who came out and said that Golson had been caught letting others copy his work.

It was met with skepticism and no reputable sources ever commented on that angle, at least not that I ever saw. The closest we had was when Golson was asked straight up by Andy Staples if he cheated, and he responded with a "yeahhhhh, something like that," which could mean any number of things in terms of "cheating."

Using work for credit twice is always an issue.

And of course in today's classroom there are all kind of possibilities. My prof friend that has seen it all says that the most likely ways of cheating he sees today are, using your own work twice, without permission, for two classes. Additional information on computers and from online notes and Power Point presentations used for in class essay's. And he notes that a lot of people that use computers for legitimate research actually log into social sites, with another student who has the answers. So there are all shades.

Here is my original point about Everett, and about this "scandal," as well. I don't care whether you love him, hate him, or don't give a shit. Occam's Razor looks for the simplest solution. If he had been a constant cheater, he probably never would have put the work in to raise his game, the way he did in '11-'12, and again this year. Similarly, if this was really a widespread sex for homework scandal, rumors would be flying everywhere.

I think Golson is a likeable guy, maybe not the wiz in the classroom he is on the field, and may have made more than one or two mistakes. But he isn't the out of control sociopath that I have actually heard some say. Those people have bought in sub-consciously, or consciously to the racist/classist angle, of the bad Kelly player. And the same is true of calling this incident a "scandal." And believing it is widespread, and that one female student is humping dozens of football players. That is spread by the human tendency to repeat bad news, and make it worse. And it was also aided by those that want this winning class of underclass athletes gone. And in the meantime we have a situation that is not clear-cut, where some young peoples future's are on the line.

That is why I am recalcitrant to knock any player or student without overwhelming proof. Most people lie, and it ruins the reputation of innocent and guilty parties, equally.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Using work for credit twice is always an issue.

And of course in today's classroom there are all kind of possibilities. My prof friend that has seen it all says that the most likely ways of cheating he sees today are, using your own work twice, without permission, for two classes. Additional information on computers and from online notes and Power Point presentations used for in class essay's. And he notes that a lot of people that use computers for legitimate research actually log into social sites, with another student who has the answers. So there are all shades.

This has to be an anomaly.

And I dont know how that red thumbs down showed up on my post. I didnt put it

 

[Big23Head]

FWIW, there is another poster at DD hearing the same as the other guy (Chiro). Who knows, hope this ends soon.

Back to breaking news...

Don't slay the messenger - just passing along some info.

My cousin is an alum and on campus a lot for work. He said the talk on campus is similar to what Chiro originally posted. 3 of the 4 have been cleared (all but Moore), but they are waiting for 2 other students to return to campus to complete the investigation. He said this centered around Russell's girl friend.

I had to ask him twice to make sure that he did not get this off a message board...

TIFWIW

 

[tussin]

FWIW, there is another poster at DD hearing the same as the other guy (Chiro). Who knows, hope this ends soon.

I obviously have no facts. But I'm not sure if I believe that Moore would be the only guy in serious trouble since it is centered on Russell's girlfriend. Seems a bit optimistic....

 

[IrishLax]

FWIW, there is another poster at DD hearing the same as the other guy (Chiro). Who knows, hope this ends soon.

Everyone just needs to pump the breaks. I don't believe that any of those guys on DomerDomain has a legitimate, 1st hand source on this shit. Just because they heard something around campus doesn't mean it has any more weight than a message board rumor... because it's just word of mouth spreading around campus.

And that's the nicest I can put it.

 

[Emcee77]

I obviously have no facts. But I'm not sure if I believe that Moore would be the only guy in serious trouble since it is centered on Russell's girlfriend. Seems a bit optimistic....

Right, I agree. I have no facts at all, but I don't dare to hope that the only guy still in hot water is the one guy we don't need. I don't know if we are that lucky. Lol.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This has to be an anomaly.

And I dont know how that red thumbs down showed up on my post. I didnt put it

What? Kids write their papers on computer. Save the files. It is amazing how quickly you can take a paper, with whatever standard format is required, change headers footers, title page and edit for content. It sounds stupid but try it. Take an English paper on Romanticists and use it for a social history class on sixteenth to eighteenth century Europe. I am just spit-balling, but you get the idea. If you save half the time, and have four papers (twenty hours each) due a semester, that could be forty hours of work per semester. Of course I have no idea what I am talking about, but you get the drift.

 

[Wild Bill]

FWIW, there is another poster at DD hearing the same as the other guy (Chiro). Who knows, hope this ends soon.

Welp, our boys are going to have some fresh legs for the season!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Everyone just needs to pump the breaks. I don't believe that any of those guys on DomerDomain has a legitimate, 1st hand source on this shit. Just because they heard something around campus doesn't mean it has any more weight than a message board rumor... because it's just word of mouth spreading around campus.

And that's the nicest I can put it.

+1

 

[connect the dots]

Using work for credit twice is always an issue.

And of course in today's classroom there are all kind of possibilities. My prof friend that has seen it all says that the most likely ways of cheating he sees today are, using your own work twice, without permission, for two classes. Additional information on computers and from online notes and Power Point presentations used for in class essay's. And he notes that a lot of people that use computers for legitimate research actually log into social sites, with another student who has the answers. So there are all shades.

Here is my original point about Everett, and about this "scandal," as well. I don't care whether you love him, hate him, or don't give a shit. Occam's Razor looks for the simplest solution. If he had been a constant cheater, he probably never would have put the work in to raise his game, the way he did in '11-'12, and again this year. Similarly, if this was really a widespread sex for homework scandal, rumors would be flying everywhere.

I think Golson is a likeable guy, maybe not the wiz in the classroom he is on the field, and may have made more than one or two mistakes. But he isn't the out of control sociopath that I have actually heard some say. Those people have bought in sub-consciously, or consciously to the racist/classist angle, of the bad Kelly player. And the same is true of calling this incident a "scandal." And believing it is widespread, and that one female student is humping dozens of football players. That is spread by the human tendency to repeat bad news, and make it worse. And it was also aided by those that want this winning class of underclass athletes gone. And in the meantime we have a situation that is not clear-cut, where some young peoples future's are on the line.

That is why I am recalcitrant to knock any player or student without overwhelming proof. Most people lie, and it ruins the reputation of innocent and guilty parties, equally.

to repeat bad news, and make it worse......Exchange of information is one thing, but idle gossip treated as valuable information? For some, once gossip it out there, it is as good as true. I suspect very few Irish Envy posters can talk in tongues, but man can we wag them!

 

[NDohio]

I obviously have no facts. But I'm not sure if I believe that Moore would be the only guy in serious trouble since it is centered on Russell's girlfriend. Seems a bit optimistic....

Maybe we are adopting some SEC mentality. The only guy in trouble is a non-starter.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

to repeat bad news, and make it worse......Exchange of information is one thing, but idle gossip treated as valuable information? For some, once gossip it out there, it is as good as true. I suspect very few Irish Envy posters can talk in tongues, but man can we wag them!

Exactly. I love to speculate. But it is just that. I hope I identify it as such for everyone.

But repeating bad news rumor, adding to it, that was all so third grade for me. Philip Daniels had one of the smartest comments during this whole thing when he said, "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see."

I refuse to think there is something so malignant in any of these kids that has never shown up before. Just doesn't work that way. The only opinion that I am willing to express is someone has been defamed as a result of all this. And it is probably due to peoples from a number of groups with hidden agendas.

 

[BGIF]

...
And I dont know how that red thumbs down showed up on my post. I didnt put it

You could have inadvertently hit one of the Post Icons bullets in the box below the Message Box with your pinky while tying your message with a index or middle finger.

If you're typing on a touch screen device, like my iPad, it's easy to do without noticing. If you proof your messages before posting you're focused on the message box not some other entry box you didn't look at.

Hit EDIT, then GO ADVANCED in the message box, then unclick the offending icon.

I've done it numerous times.

 

[koonja]

F-that. I BELIEVE! They'll be back for the Michigan game. Take it to the bank. No info.

I'll bet 10,000,000 vbangers on it.

 

[BGIF]

I'm sad. I expected better

Mea culpa!

Thanks for pointing out my error.

Obviously I didn't have a girl friend proof it.

 

[Grahambo]

Everyone just needs to pump the breaks. I don't believe that any of those guys on DomerDomain has a legitimate, 1st hand source on this shit. Just because they heard something around campus doesn't mean it has any more weight than a message board rumor... because it's just word of mouth spreading around campus.

And that's the nicest I can put it.

I'll also add that there are certain people that cover ND that do have contacts within the recruiting department, General Consul, etc and if they haven't said anything, then chances are, nobody truly knows.

I will say, IF the advisory board, that was discussed in previous pages, is made up of students and the players' fate does lie in their hands, maybe one of them did leak something to a buddy and thats how the rumor spread.

 

[OCIrish]

F-that. I BELIEVE! They'll be back for the Michigan game. Take it to the bank. No info.

I'll bet 10,000,000 vbangers on it.

For reals???? I'm in, what say you???