Rioting in St Louis

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BGIF

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This validates the story (only one that makes sense) where brown attacks the cop and then tries to get away. Cop yells freeze, then the guy who just committed the robbery charges. Cop doesn't know what he has. If a guy punches me in the face and rushes towards me, my mag would be empty too. Especially at 300 lbs and 6'5. Not a chance in hell this cop sees a jail cell. I bet it doesn't even see a trial. Riots in the streets when he is cleared.


Like I asked, tell me what I'm missing.

There's agreement among 3 witnesses and the chief's briefing that there was an altercation at/in the car. One shot went off in the car.

Witnesses claim Brown ran for cover, then was WALKING back to surrender with hands up. NO distance between cop and Brown offered. No mention by chief of Brown returning, menacing, or being in close proximity (lunging distance) or 15 or 30 feet away.

Unless the cop is left handed (not reported), he had to exit the car to shot. There is NO police shown in any video I've seen in that is anywhere close to the body on the pavement.

Did the shooting officer drive himself away in a car which IS a crime scene (altercation/shot fired/policeman assaulted) by itself?

IF the nearest police car to the body is the shooter's then there is no justification to shoot based on the distance unless Brown was visibly armed.

Even if MO is a Stand Your Ground state, the assailant has to be in your space, YOUR GROUND. Nothing so far has demonstrated that.


I have a credibility issue with the cigar swiper's buddy's multiple statements to the media but not to any investigator. I have no reason to question the other two witnesses credibility until the DA gets them on the stand. I also have a credibility issue with the chief's briefing. He doesn't have to give away their case but his version was as shaky as the other sides.


If YOU emptied your clip into this guy at 30 feet, you'd be doing time even in Simi Valley. You might get it knocked down to manslaughter but it's not a walk. Hell, in NYC Jack McCoy would nail you for Depraved Indifference at a minimum.

I want to see the evidence and hear the testimony. A dash cam video would make it a slam dunk for either side depending on want it shows. Do they have one?
 

BGIF

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Missouri National Guard headed to Ferguson - CNN.com

By Steve Kastenbaum and Holly Yan, CNN
updated 4:52 AM EDT, Mon August 18, 2014

Given these deliberate, coordinated and intensifying violent attacks on lives and property in Ferguson, I am directing the highly capable men and women of the Missouri National Guard ... in restoring peace and order to this community.
Gov Jay Nixon


The Ferguson-Florissant School District canceled classes for Monday.
 

BGIF

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Michael Brown death: Autopsy won't offer clarity - CNN.com

By Holly Yan and Mayra Cuevas, CNN
updated 6:40 AM EDT, Mon August 18, 2014




(CNN) -- The preliminary results of an autopsy that Michael Brown's family requested are unlikely to settle the dueling narratives that have defined the case from the beginning.


Brian Stelter, CNN, pointed out that while this is more information, it's not necessarily better information.

Either can can use it to support their narrative. The frontal wounds could support that Brown was coming back. The wounds throw the arms and then torso could support that his arms were not raised. Or vice versa depending on your prospective.


The Brown family is holding a 9:30 press conference.
 

BGIF

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Missouri's Gov. Nixon: Ferguson police were aggressive - CNN.com

Leigh Ann Caldwell, CNN
updated 6:28 PM EDT, Sun August 17, 2014

N.B. This article was written prior to the Sunday night march and subsequent violence. The politicians across the country called out the militarization.


(CNN) -- Gov. Jay Nixon is criticizing the "over-militarization" of the police response to protests that have been spurred by the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.
Nixon appeared on most of the political talk shows on Sunday, calling the tactics of the St. Louis County Police "aggressive" and expressed relief that the Justice Department is conducting its own investigation into the young man's death on August 9.
"There are times when force is necessary, but we really felt that push at that time was a little aggressive, obviously, and those images were not what we were trying to get to," he said on ABC's "This Week," referring to the policing using heavily armored military vehicles.
"And in those situations where folks are rolling up heavily armored and they're pointing guns at folks, that's impossible to have a dialogue," Nixon said.
Missouri Gov Nixon on the investigation Militarizing the police force 'This is about finding justice' for a kid
The governor, however, offered praise for members of the community who have been protesting Brown's killing during an encounter with police.

...


More at the link
 

BGIF

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Autopsy finds unarmed teen killed by police was shot six times: NYT | Reuters


Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:15am EDT


...
Baden said his autopsy was not intended to determine whether the shooting was justified.

“In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times’,” he told the Times. “Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”

Baden also said only three bullets were recovered from Brown's body, but that he had not yet seen the X-rays showing where the bullets were found which would help clarify the autopsy results.
 

BGIF

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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...ot-at-least-6-times.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=1


This is the article that CNN, Reuters, and others reference in their autopsy coverage.

I learned the Ferguson Police could not provide details on their autopsy as they didn't perform it. It was done by the St Louis County M.E. And they haven't released it to Ferguson officials yet. Unlike TV they don't get DNA, Tox screen, and other test results during the commercial.
 

peoriairish

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No dash cams in any Ferguson police cruisers. They have a grant in hand for a few of them but haven't had the time to put them in yet.
 
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BGIF

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No dash cams in any Ferguson police cruisers they have a grant in hand for a few of them but haven't had the time to put them in yet.

Too bad. It might not have saved a life but it would have saved a fortune in OT pay, tear gas, and burned buildings.

I'll bet the new mayor, aldermen, and police chief make it a priority. The times they are a changin'.
 
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Booslum31

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No justice no peace

Dude, I can appreciate your passion on this whole thing but I don't think this post really helps forward your position. Why not wait to see is justice is served here? BTW, I believe that there are two groups here: one that wants to stage a protest in a peaceful yet powerful way and another small group that wants violence and to promote a different agenda. Unfortunately, it's this second group that is causing the escalation with the National Guard.
 

wizards8507

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I believe that there are two groups here: one that wants to stage a protest in a peaceful yet powerful way and another small group that wants violence and to promote a different agenda. Unfortunately, it's this second group that is causing the escalation with the National Guard.
I'm sorry, but even the "peaceful protests" are bullshit. They have every RIGHT to protest, but it doesn't mean they should. When you protest the death of a violent criminal who lost his altercation with police, you lose a ton of credibility bitching about how much of an innocent angel he was. The lesson here is not that police gun down random citizens for funsies, it's that you shouldn't ROB CONVENIENCE STORES in the first place because shit tends to go south.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Dude, I can appreciate your passion on this whole thing but I don't think this post really helps forward your position. Why not wait to see is justice is served here? BTW, I believe that there are two groups here: one that wants to stage a protest in a peaceful yet powerful way and another small group that wants violence and to promote a different agenda. Unfortunately, it's this second group that is causing the escalation with the National Guard.

Yup. Nail on head. Peaceful protests don't bring tanks, tear gas, and the like. Shooting at cops and Molitov cocktails will get you martial law. Good luck with that.
 

BGIF

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Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


New video taken "30 seconds" after Brown is down according to the cell phone owner whose apartment overlooks the scene. Her description of events is similar to other witnesses although her Vedic does not show the shooting or police car altercation.

Once again there is no police car (crime scene where first shot fired) in view.


I question her 30 seconds estimate from the shooting until video starts rolling as the area around the body has been cordoned off with "crime scene" tape. Had the 2nd officer had the tape in hand at the moment of shooting, he would not have been able to unroll the tape and secure it and be back in the center of the street prior to the cell phone filming. Piaget Crenshaw the filter told CNN on live TV this morning that she didn't have her cell phone in hand when Brown was shot. In response to CNN question about how much time passed before she started filming, she estimated 30 seconds.

The alleged shooter is on the right in the video per Crenshaw.

She also explained the police saw her on the balcony filming and questioned her after the shooting. The police had her phone since then but have not released this video. She got her phone back on Tuesday but was scared to show previously.
 

wizards8507

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Press conference on now. Is this Trayvon's lawyer? He's trying to spin the autopsy results to prove that this was an "execution." Also, apparently it's somehow worse if you're shot multiple times versus just once? I don't know how police are trained, but in self defense you never only shoot once.

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NDohio

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Press conference on now. Is this Trayvon's lawyer? He's trying to spin the autopsy results to prove that this was an "execution." Also, apparently it's somehow worse if you're shot multiple times versus just once? I don't know how police are trained, but in self defense you never only shoot once.

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Yes
 
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Press conference on now. Is this Trayvon's lawyer? He's trying to spin the autopsy results to prove that this was an "execution." Also, apparently it's somehow worse if you're shot multiple times versus just once? I don't know how police are trained, but in self defense you never only shoot once.

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Dirty Harry would only shoot once. With six well placed shots, Officer Wilson will not be called Dirty Darren. Scared, maybe, but not dirty.
 

BGIF

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Dirty Harry would only shoot once. With six well placed shots, Officer Wilson will not be called Dirty Darren. Scared, maybe, but not dirty.


Actually "scared" is critical to his defense.

The former NYC M.E. stated that based on their work, they couldn't tell if Brown was shot from as close as 1-2 feet or as far as 30.
 

BGIF

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In this morning's Brown family P.C. the other examiner, Parsells, pointed out that 5 of the 6 wounds were from the front and the wound in the foreman could have been from front or back as the arm articulates and it was unknown what position it was when hit.
 

cody1smith

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In this morning's Brown family P.C. the other examiner, Parsells, pointed out that 5 of the 6 wounds were from the front and the wound in the foreman could have been from front or back as the arm articulates and it was unknown what position it was when hit.
Are we sure how many shots were even fired?
 

kmoose

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Interesting that CNN reported that the New Black Panthers, who are there in Ferguson, have called for a moratorium on protests. Isn't it kind of odd, how violent protests just seem to follow the New Black Panther Party around?

You know, these guys:

From Wikipedia:

The New Black Panther Party provoked a melee outside Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney's campaign headquarters after she lost a Democratic primary election to her opponent, Hank Johnson. The NBPP's Chief of Staff, Hashim Nzinga, had been acting as security detail for McKinney when he physically attacked reporters, calling them Jews and insisting that they must focus on Hank Johnson rather than on McKinney, since Johnson, he alleged, was a "Tom."[14] In a subsequent appearance on the Fox News Channel program Hannity & Colmes, Nzinga defended these actions. He accused his interviewers of being part of a "Zionist" media complex bent on defaming African Americans and, by extension, the New Black Panthers.[15]

In 2006, the New Black Panther Party regained the media spotlight by intervening in the 2006 Duke University lacrosse team scandal, organizing marches outside Duke University and making numerous media appearances to demand that the jury organized by then-District AttorneyMike Nifong convict the accused lacrosse players.[16] Malik Zulu Shabazz met with the DA and asserted repeatedly that the DA's answers meant he was supporting the claims made by the NBPP, a point that was widely disputed.

On April 12, 2007, after the case brought by Nifong collapsed and the Duke Lacrosse players were exonerated, Malik Zulu Shabazz appeared on The O'Reilly Factor. He refused to apologize for his actions in the leadup to the Duke University lacrosse rape scandal, stating that he did not know whether or not anything happened to the young accuser. He stated his beliefs that the rich white families of Duke had placed political pressure on the investigation and forced the charges to be dropped. When questioned by guest host Michelle Malkin, he labeled her a political prostitute and mouthpiece for a male, chauvinist, racist Bill O'Reilly. Malkin said, "There's only one whore on this split screen and it's you, Mr. Shabazz." Shabazz replied, "You should be ashamed of yourself for defending and being a spokesman for Bill O'Reilly, who has no respect for women."[17][18]

Calling the NBPP extremist, critics have cited Muhammad's Million Youth March in Harlem, a youth equivalent of the Million Man March, in which the protest against police brutality included speakers calling for the extermination of white South Africans. The rally ended in scuffles with the New York Police Department as Muhammad urged the crowd to attack officers who had attempted to confiscate firearms. Chairs and bottles were thrown at the police, but only a few in the clash suffered injuries. The Million Youth March was subsequently named an annual event.

King Samir Shabazz, a former Nation of Islam member and head of the New Black Panther Party's Philadelphia chapter, has a long history of confrontational racist behavior. He advocated racial separation and made incendiary racial statements while promoting anti-police messages in the media and on the streets of Philadelphia. He publicly announced, "I hate white people. All of them." He also suggested the killing of white babies.[19][20][21][22][23] Shabazz was arrested in June 2013 for carrying a loaded, unlicensed weapon.[24] The party has claimed his arrest is part of an “onslaught of attacks against the New Black Pan*ther Party."[25]

During the 2008 presidential election, poll watchers found two New Black Panther militia members shouting racial slurs outside a polling place in Philadelphia.[26] One of the two was a credentialed poll watcher, while the other was a New Black Panther member who had brought a police-style nightstick baton. A University of Pennsylvania student, Stephen Robert Morse, was hired by the local Republican Party on behalf of the John McCain presidential campaign to tape the incident.[27] His video aired on several news outlets throughout the country. Republican poll watcher Chris Hill stated that voters were complaining about intimidation, while the District Attorney's office stated that they had not been contacted by any voters.[28] The New Black Panther with the nightstick was escorted away by the police.[29]

On January 7, 2009, the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) filed a civil suit against the New Black Panther Party and three of its members alleging violations of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 over the incident at the Philadelphia polling place. The suit accused members King Samir Shabazz and Jerry Jackson of being outside a polling location wearing the uniform of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, and said that Shabazz repeatedly brandished a police-style baton weapon.[30] The suit sought an injunction preventing further violations of the Voting Rights Act. After the defendants did not appear for court, a default judgment was entered.[citation needed] On May 29, 2009, the Department of Justice requested and received an injunction against the member who had carried the nightstick, but against the advice of prosecutors who had worked on the case, department superiors ordered the suit dropped against the remaining members. On July 6, 2010, J. Christian Adams, a former lawyer for the Justice Department, testified before the Commission on Civil Rights and alleged that the case was dropped because “We abetted wrongdoing and abandoned law-abiding citizens,”.[31] Former Civil Rights Division Voting Section Chief Christopher Coates testified on September 24, 2010, "I am here today to testify about the Department of Justice's final disposition of the New Black Panther Party case and the hostility in the Civil Rights Division and the Voting Section toward the equal enforcement of some of the federal voting laws." (pp. 7, 22–25; pp. 8, 1–2)[32] Abigail Thernstrom, the Republican-appointed vice chairwoman of the Commission, has written that perhaps the Panthers should have been prosecuted under section 11 (b) of the Voting Rights Act for [its] actions of November 2008, but the legal standards that must be met to prove voter intimidation—the charge—are very high. And "The incident involved only two Panthers at a single majority-black precinct in Philadelphia. So far—after months of hearings, testimony and investigation no one has produced actual evidence that any voters were too scared to cast their ballots."[33]

According to an April 23, 2010 press release from the New Black Panther Party, the Philadelphia member involved in the nightstick incident was suspended until January 2010. "The New Black Panther Party made it clear then and now we don't support voter intimidation...The charges against the entire organization and the chairman were dropped. The actions of one individual cannot be attributed to an entire organization any more than every act of any member of the Catholic Church be charged to the Vatican."[34]

Another controversy occurred in 2012 after the NBPP offered a $10,000 bounty for the "legal citizen's arrest" of George Zimmerman, the perpetrator of the shooting of Trayvon Martin. The group also stated that it believed in "a life for a life". The bounty offer was condemned and repudiated by Martin's family and others, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson. The NBPP's organizer, Mikhail Mohammed, said that the United States Constitution granted the right to a citizen's arrest, but he also said that "I don't obey the white man's law, I don't follow the American law." [35]

But, on the other hand; this does kind of refute the claim of some, that the people of Ferguson are at the root of all of the violence. I'd place my bet on these(or other) outside agitators.
 

BGIF

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Are we sure how many shots were even fired?

No. These autopsy said 6 confirmed wounds with a 7th possible. He noted that the duplicate incisions from the two autopsies make it difficult to tell now. He wants to see the x-rays and ordinal autopsy report to confirm.

There was also the reported the shot in the car. That would make at least 8.

The St Louis Co. M.E., Mary Case, told Dr Baden 3 slugs were recovered.

I have not read or heard of any witness reporting how many shots were heard.
 
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peoriairish

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The PC this morning from the attorney was all conjecture and posturing to illicit emotion, retaliation, and increased tension between the locals and the police. They were taking the facts and spinning them to tell lies. The attorney stated that the autopsy corroborated his friend when in fact, it doesn't. The autopsy shows that all shots can from the front and there were no posterior entry wounds. Just a lie to get the people going!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xuQNt45Cjkc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

BobD

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About to get dark there in a few hours. PLEASE stay home people.
 

BobbyMac

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Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


New video taken "30 seconds" after Brown is down according to the cell phone owner whose apartment overlooks the scene. Her description of events is similar to other witnesses although her Vedic does not show the shooting or police car altercation.

Once again there is no police car (crime scene where first shot fired) in view.


I question her 30 seconds estimate from the shooting until video starts rolling as the area around the body has been cordoned off with "crime scene" tape. Had the 2nd officer had the tape in hand at the moment of shooting, he would not have been able to unroll the tape and secure it and be back in the center of the street prior to the cell phone filming. Piaget Crenshaw the filter told CNN on live TV this morning that she didn't have her cell phone in hand when Brown was shot. In response to CNN question about how much time passed before she started filming, she estimated 30 seconds.

The alleged shooter is on the right in the video per Crenshaw.

She also explained the police saw her on the balcony filming and questioned her after the shooting. The police had her phone since then but have not released this video. She got her phone back on Tuesday but was scared to show previously.

You question her 30 second time estimate? NOOOOO!

Who established the crime scene perimeter, Officer Usain Bolt?

Come on bro...
.
 

GoIrish41

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Most of the tactical equipment and training was provided by the United States of America.

Yeah i get that but we do not pay for upkeep and training. Why do they have tanks? Most police forces in the country have dash cams.
 

cody1smith

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Yeah i get that but we do not pay for upkeep and training. Why do they have tanks? Most police forces in the country have dash cams.
This is a dirt poor community. I would venture to say that 50 percent of the population is unemployed or poverty level. Hell I bet there has not been 10 new homes built there in 6 or 8 years.
 

D-BOE34

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Sad thing about Ferguson is 14 years ago it was a great city! My father and his siblings grew up there and raised me there till I was 10. Still have aunts, uncles and grandparents that live in Ferguson/Florrisant. About 13 years ago people started moving from inner city to Ferguson/Florrisant. The folks that had been there then started to move out towards St. Charles and St. Peters and now population has spread out into Wentzville and beyond.

I was back there a couple weeks before all this went down to visit family and all of my old stomping grounds are ran to shit. McCluer/Normandy/McCluer North are all horrible HS and I am pretty sure Normandy still has no accreditation and is ran by the state. Last I read it isn't even part of a district. My niece spent last school year with all the Normandy kids being shuttled out to Francis Howell and after a while, the parents were surprised at the students and started to question why only so few were being sent to better schools.

These riots go back to the lack of education in the area. Sadly, many of these people were raised with horrible education and no appreciation for anything in a town that was, not so long ago, a great place to live!

I don't know all the specifics behind how education works but I do believe that something more should have been done a long time ago to save this community.

WIthout touching on either side of Brown/WIlson... this is the result of a city that was left for dead, IMO.
 
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