Recruiting Nationally Discussion

[IrishLax]

I'm sorry but recruiting all of these Louisiana guys (sans Tillery) is a huge mistake. Just setting ourselves up for decommits. I honestly do not want any of these guys regardless of how talented they are unless they are signing day commits.

 

[STLDomer]

I'm sorry but recruiting all of these Louisiana guys (sans Tillery) is a huge mistake. Just setting ourselves up for decommits. I honestly do not want any of these guys regardless of how talented they are unless they are signing day commits.

I disagree, I think the John Curtis kids have genuine interest and sound like a match. Sure Noil, Quinn, and others might not but an offer can't hurt.

They can always get out of their LOIs

Only half kidding

 

[Irishnuke]

I'm sorry but recruiting all of these Louisiana guys (sans Tillery) is a huge mistake. Just setting ourselves up for decommits. I honestly do not want any of these guys regardless of how talented they are unless they are signing day commits.

Not to make you more pissed but we just lost a signing day commit, but I get what you're saying. If we think there is pressure on CA kids to decommit I can only imagine how much pressure would be on kids from the heart of SEC country.

 

[IrishLax]

I disagree, I think the John Curtis kids have genuine interest and sound like a match. Sure Noil, Quinn, and others might not but an offer can't hurt.

They can always get out of their LOIs

Only half kidding

Yeah, EV jokes aside about not even being committed after signing... my point is grabbing early commits from Louisiana is just asking for them to get poached later... and they'll just be hogging a spot in the class until they flip, and we all know we don't oversign. Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi are all notorious for having flaky top tier prospects AND Notre Dame isn't local AND we're not going to play dirty like the other schools.

I simply do not want any of these kids signed up until after the football season.... and I don't really understand why we're trying to make inroads into one of the most loyal deep south states in the first place. Just seems really misguided.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Lax's concerns are certainly legitimate and he has the right mindset here. Don't John Curtis kids tend to wait until later though, similar to Don Bosco?

 

[NDWorld247]

I'm sorry but recruiting all of these Louisiana guys (sans Tillery) is a huge mistake. Just setting ourselves up for decommits. I honestly do not want any of these guys regardless of how talented they are unless they are signing day commits.

Lax's concerns are certainly legitimate and he has the right mindset here. Don't John Curtis kids tend to wait until later though, similar to Don Bosco?

As early offers roll in, John Curtis High is a key destination - High School - SI.com

Head coach J.T. Curtis, fully versed in the recruiting process, has had a front-row seat for the increase in early attention and is less than pleased.

"The trend has been over the last five to seven or eight or nine years or so with early offers and early recruiting," Curtis said. "To be honest, I'm not a fan of that. I'd much rather see guys evaluated through their senior year. But it is what it is so we deal with it the best we can and try to keep a good sense about what's going on."

Even with the increased attention and prospects making earlier commitments, Curtis encourages his players to take a reasoned approach.

"I encourage them to take their time, and if we do commit we are done," Curtis said. "We are finished with any kind of recruiting and I want them and their family to know that because the word "commitment" to me means we're finished, we're done, it's locked in place. The only way that changes is if something happens in terms of the coaching staff being let go. Other than that we're not changing."

 

[Irishnuke]

As early offers roll in, John Curtis High is a key destination - High School - SI.com

Head coach J.T. Curtis, fully versed in the recruiting process, has had a front-row seat for the increase in early attention and is less than pleased.

"The trend has been over the last five to seven or eight or nine years or so with early offers and early recruiting," Curtis said. "To be honest, I'm not a fan of that. I'd much rather see guys evaluated through their senior year. But it is what it is so we deal with it the best we can and try to keep a good sense about what's going on."

Even with the increased attention and prospects making earlier commitments, Curtis encourages his players to take a reasoned approach.

"I encourage them to take their time, and if we do commit we are done," Curtis said. "We are finished with any kind of recruiting and I want them and their family to know that because the word "commitment" to me means we're finished, we're done, it's locked in place. The only way that changes is if something happens in terms of the coaching staff being let go. Other than that we're not changing."

Doesn't matter what they say. We've all heard that from kids before.

 

[IrishLax]

Doesn't matter what they say. We've all heard that from kids before.

YUP... and it always seems to be the ones that make these declarations that end up backing out and saying "I've got to do what's best for me" or some other platitude.

 

[NDWorld247]

Doesn't matter what they say. We've all heard that from kids before.

Well, it was said by arguably the best and most respected HS football coach in the country, but don't let facts get in the way of making your point.

Also, not all HS football programs, coaches and players are created equal. Not wanting to recruit a talent rich state out of fear for future de-commits is ludicrous. I agree, in most cases, hanging onto a LA recruit would be difficult. More difficult than hanging onto any other recruit? Maybe, maybe not. But if you think Saban, Miles, etc, are going to disrespect J.T. Curtis and his football program you're out of your mind. If he says they're done, I'm believing they've gone through the process of thoroughly examining their options and made the right decision. Frankly, I'd be more worried about a guy that commits on NSD than say anytime in the 10 weeks prior to NSD.

 

[Grahambo]

Well, it was said by arguably the best and most respected HS football coach in the country, but don't let facts get in the way of making your point.

Also, not all HS football programs, coaches and players are created equal. Not wanting to recruit a talent rich state out of fear for future de-commits is ludicrous. I agree, in most cases, hanging onto a LA recruit would be difficult. More difficult than hanging onto any other recruit? Maybe, maybe not. But if you think Saban, Miles, etc, are going to disrespect J.T. Curtis and his football program you're out of your mind. If he says they're done, I'm believing they've gone through the process of thoroughly examining their options and made the right decision. Frankly, I'd be more worried about a guy that commits on NSD than say anytime in the 10 weeks prior to NSD.

/discussion

 

[OCIrish]

I'm sorry but recruiting all of these Louisiana guys (sans Tillery) is a huge mistake. Just setting ourselves up for decommits. I honestly do not want any of these guys regardless of how talented they are unless they are signing day commits.

So......ND should just not recruit SEC land because its a possibility they could decommit.......want some cheese with your wine??????

 

[IrishLax]

Well, it was said by arguably the best and most respected HS football coach in the country, but don't let facts get in the way of making your point.

You can say the same thing about a lot of programs and a lot of "high character" kids/families who "shut down recruiting" or are "100% final" and then change their minds. You see it with literally dozens of kids in every single class. This is not debatable... but, you know, don't let facts get in the way of your point.

Also, not all HS football programs, coaches and players are created equal. Not wanting to recruit a talent rich state out of fear for future de-commits is ludicrous.

How so? You see this all the time with virtually every program. Teams target talent in certain areas first before reaching for talent elsewhere where they perceive it to be a hard get or a hard hold. Why do you think Te'o had ZERO SEC offers? Because he lived in freaking Hawai'i. It's not worth it for 'Bama or Kentucky or Florida or whoever to try to chase him, regardless of the talent. I've long been a proponent of ND focusing recruiting on Midwest/east coast talent and eschewing west coast and Alabama-westward deep south talent because the return on investment just isn't there (without oversigning) and it carries really substantial risk. Of course you make exceptions for guys like Tillery and the like... but it's just not a good general practice to fall into. History shows this.

I agree, in most cases, hanging onto a LA recruit would be difficult. More difficult than hanging onto any other recruit? Maybe, maybe not. But if you think Saban, Miles, etc, are going to disrespect J.T. Curtis and his football program you're out of your mind. If he says they're done, I'm believing they've gone through the process of thoroughly examining their options and made the right decision. Frankly, I'd be more worried about a guy that commits on NSD than say anytime in the 10 weeks prior to NSD.

You grossly overestimate the importance/power of a coach. If Saban/Miles want to keep contacting the kid they're going to. If a booster wants to drop a bag with $100k on the recruit's doorstep, they're going to. There is nothing any HS coach can do to stop that, and if you think a local coach is going to go to war with Les Miles over him reaching out to recruits after they offer a verbal commitment I don't know what world you live in. That's not realistic.

 

[IrishLax]

So......ND should just not recruit SEC land because its a possibility they could decommit.......want some cheese with your wine??????

You seriously don't see the value on focusing your recruiting on areas where you've already got inroads and it's easier to pull/hold talent? Like every school in the country basically already does? You think it's a good idea to recruit kids who might have a culture shock? You don't think there is enough high talent in the Midwest and east coast to fill up the roster?

 

[irishfan]

I agree with what LAX is saying overall, but it really does not apply to John Curtis Christian. J.T. Curtis has been coaching there since 1969, and he has NEVER had a player decommit.

EDIT: not saying these kids wont get home sick once they're in South Bend, but they wont be decommitting.

Rivals.com Football Recruiting - Early commitments worry high school coaches

 

[IrishLax]

I agree with what LAX is saying overall, but it really does not apply to John Curtis Christian. J.T. Curtis has been coaching there since 1969, and he has NEVER had a player decommit.

EDIT: not saying these kids wont get home sick once they're in South Bend, but they wont be decommitting.

Rivals.com Football Recruiting - Early commitments worry high school coaches

Welllllllll most of them are going local.... and there is a first time for everything... but I get what you're saying. Never = never. So maybe we can lump these guys in with a guy like Tillery as "exceptions to the rule."

 

[NDWorld247]

You can say the same thing about a lot of programs and a lot of "high character" kids/families who "shut down recruiting" or are "100% final" and then change their minds. You see it with literally dozens of kids in every single class. This is not debatable... but, you know, don't let facts get in the way of your point.

Again, all HS programs/coaches are not created equal. Show me an example of a HS program that has a policy of when you commit, you're done, that has had players de-commit. Bonus points for an example where the HS carries the coach's namesake.

To be clear, I am not talking about kids/families here. Your 'facts' are accurate and irrelevant to my point.

How so? You see this all the time with virtually every program. Teams target talent in certain areas first before reaching for talent elsewhere where they perceive it to be a hard get or a hard hold. Why do you think Te'o had ZERO SEC offers? Because he lived in freaking Hawai'i. It's not worth it for 'Bama or Kentucky or Florida or whoever to try to chase him, regardless of the talent. I've long been a proponent of ND focusing recruiting on Midwest/east coast talent and eschewing west coast and Alabama-westward deep south talent because the return on investment just isn't there (without oversigning) and it carries really substantial risk. Of course you make exceptions for guys like Tillery and the like... but it's just not a good general practice to fall into. History shows this.

Recent history shows you do not win National Championships with east coast/midwest talent. I love that we are going into unchartered territories, namely players from the South. I don't give a crap if we spend $1M recruiting in LA this year. If it lands us a playmaker I'm all for it, especially if the kid(s) are showing interest in your program, which, by all accounts, kids from the South are thanks to BK and staff.

You grossly overestimate the importance/power of a coach. If Saban/Miles want to keep contacting the kid they're going to. If a booster wants to drop a bag with $100k on the recruit's doorstep, they're going to. There is nothing any HS coach can do to stop that, and if you think a local coach is going to go to war with Les Miles over him reaching out to recruits after they offer a verbal commitment I don't know what world you live in. That's not realistic.

You are grossly underestimating the importance/power of a coach in the recruiting process. The coach is as integral a piece to the recruiting process as anyone, especially at big time programs like John Curtis HS. The importance of relationships between college and HS coaches in the recruiting process cannot be understated. One kid is not going to ruin the relationship/respect J.T Curtis has with Saban/Miles, but you better believe they respect the man and his program. If it's any other 'local' coach, you're probably right. They will keep recruiting. However, I am talking about John Curtis HS.
.

 

[IrishLax]

Again, all HS programs/coaches are not created equal. Show me an example of a HS program that has a policy of when you commit, you're done, that has had players de-commit. Bonus points for an example where the HS carries the coach's namesake.

Don't know how to Google search for this, but I'm sure there are some somewhere. I know of a lot of coaches who have said "when my guy commits he is done" and then he isn't but can't think of any who have stated a public "policy" of sorts beforehand. Plus, I threw you a positive rep for this point, so I agree it has value.

Recent history shows you do not win National Championships with east coast/midwest talent. I love that we are going into unchartered territories, namely players from the South. I don't give a crap if we spend $1M recruiting in LA this year. If it lands us a playmaker I'm all for it, especially if the kid(s) are showing interest in your program, which, by all accounts, kids from the South are thanks to BK and staff.

In the era of oversigning/JUCOs it's really silly to look at "regionality" as the reason for SEC championship dominance. With that being said, Ohio State consistently won 10+ games a season and competed for championships without deep south (Louisiana-Mississippi-Alabama) talent. Same thing applies to Oregon who came within a freak play of a championship. And don't even get me started on Stanford. So yeah... you can definitely win at a very elite level consistently without playmakers from the aforementioned states.

Oh, and Florida under Meyer won almost exclusively with talent from the east coast. Chris Leak (North Carolina), Tim Tebow (Florida), Percy Harvin (Virginia), Aaron Hernandez (Connecticut)... the list goes on and on and on. The 2006 team had ZERO starters from MS/AL/LA and only 1 player from those 3 states on the roster. The 2008 team again had ZERO starters from the deep south states and only 2 players on the roster.

You are grossly underestimating the importance/power of a coach in the recruiting process. The coach is as integral a piece to the recruiting process as anyone, especially at big time programs like John Curtis HS. The importance of relationships between college and HS coaches in the recruiting process cannot be understated. One kid is not going to ruin the relationship/respect J.T Curtis has with Saban/Miles, but you better believe they respect the man and his program. If it's any other 'local' coach, you're probably right. They will keep recruiting. However, I am talking about John Curtis HS.
.

OK then let's take the flip side... if the HC has such a powerful bond with Miles/Saban and is so integral to the process, what makes you think ND can overcome that with practically no recent Louisiana history?

 

[Irishnuke]

Again, all HS programs/coaches are not created equal. Show me an example of a HS program that has a policy of when you commit, you're done, that has had players de-commit. Bonus points for an example where the HS carries the coach's namesake.

Please show me an example of a high school that has a policy that once you commit, you don't decommit. You can't because regardless of who your high school coach, he has no control over what a recruit decides. Sure he can heavily influence the recruit but he doesn't get to decide where his players go.

I'm not saying we shouldn't recruit these kids. I agree with LAX that these kids are decommit risks. Don't give a shits what HS they go to or who their coach is.

 

[DillonHall]

You seriously don't see the value on focusing your recruiting on areas where you've already got inroads and it's easier to pull/hold talent? Like every school in the country basically already does? You think it's a good idea to recruit kids who might have a culture shock? You don't think there is enough high talent in the Midwest and east coast to fill up the roster?

Definitely agree. I've never understood the need to recruit nationally.

 

[clashmore_mike]

sure you can "fill up the roster" with kids from the midwest and east coast. doesn't mean the roster will be filled with talented difference makers though.

 

[STLDomer]

You seriously don't see the value on focusing your recruiting on areas where you've already got inroads and it's easier to pull/hold talent? Like every school in the country basically already does? You think it's a good idea to recruit kids who might have a culture shock? You don't think there is enough high talent in the Midwest and east coast to fill up the roster?

Definitely agree. I've never understood the need to recruit nationally.

ummm no way IMO can we only recruit the Midwest and compete at a BCS level. I do think we could recruit just the Midwest, Florida and California (aka cut out The Northeast, Arizona, The Virginia/Maryland area, Texas, Louisiana) but not just the Midwest.

 

[NDWorld247]

Don't know how to Google search for this, but I'm sure there are some somewhere. I know of a lot of coaches who have said "when my guy commits he is done" and then he isn't but can't think of any who have stated a public "policy" of sorts beforehand. Plus, I threw you a positive rep for this point, so I agree it has value.

Thanks for the rep. I appreciate it.

In the era of oversigning/JUCOs it's really silly to look at "regionality" as the reason for SEC championship dominance. With that being said, Ohio State consistently won 10+ games a season and competed for championships without deep south (Louisiana-Mississippi-Alabama) talent. Same thing applies to Oregon who came within a freak play of a championship. And don't even get me started on Stanford. So yeah... you can definitely win at a very elite level consistently without playmakers from the aforementioned states.

Oh, and Florida under Meyer won almost exclusively with talent from the east coast. Chris Leak (North Carolina), Tim Tebow (Florida), Percy Harvin (Virginia), Aaron Hernandez (Connecticut)... the list goes on and on and on. The 2006 team had ZERO starters from MS/AL/LA and only 1 player from those 3 states on the roster. The 2008 team again had ZERO starters from the deep south states and only 2 players on the roster.

My mistake here. I misinterpreted/misread your geographic definitions. I've spent most of my life on the eastern seaboard and, in the world of college recruiting, consider South Carolina, Georgia and Florida as "South" rather than east coast.

With that said, I would never limit ND's recruiting map to east coast and midwest. We are a national brand and should recruit nationally, excluding no region/state. California has been good to us. Hawaii has been good to us recently. Hopefully AL, LA, MS are good to us in the future.

My original comment was: Not wanting to recruit a talent rich state out of fear for future de-commits is ludicrous. . I stand by that 100%.

OK then let's take the flip side... if the HC has such a powerful bond with Miles/Saban and is so integral to the process, what makes you think ND can overcome that with practically no recent Louisiana history?

My point was about the respect Saban/Miles have with Curtis and that if his guy chooses another school, whether that's ND or Montana State, they will respect it because they respect the program/Curtis and want to continue that relationship. The ND staff has to build a relationship with Curtis and the program. It's not going to be easy and I'm not predicting Dupre or Young to pick ND. I, unlike you, have no problem with them trying. I LOVE that they're knocking on every door they can.

 

[NDWorld247]

Please show me an example of a high school that has a policy that once you commit, you don't decommit. You can't because regardless of who your high school coach, he has no control over what a recruit decides. Sure he can heavily influence the recruit but he doesn't get to decide where his players go.

I'm not saying we shouldn't recruit these kids. I agree with LAX that these kids are decommit risks. Don't give a shits what HS they go to or who their coach is.

John Curtis High School. 100% over 45 years.

I'm not suggesting that he would decide where the kid would go. I am saying once the player commits, he is going to honor that commitment.

Let's not get lost in the fact I was talking about a specific coach and HS.

 

[NDdomer2]

Recuiting nationally

1. We should because we can.
2. Has anyone seen our roster? (using spring game roster)

East Coast
Brown, Chris Hanahan, SC/Hanahan
Calabrese, Carlo Verona, NJ/Verona
Councell, Ben Asheville, NC/A.C. Reynolds
Farley, Matthias Charlotte, NC/Christian
Golson, Everett Myrtle Beach, SC/Myrtle Beach
Hanratty, Conor New Canaan, CT/New Canaan
Harrell, Mark Charlotte, NC/Catholic
Jackson, Bennett Hazlet, NJ/Raritan
Jones, Jarron Rochester, NY/Aquinas Institute
Moore, Kendall Raleigh, NC/Southeast Raleigh
Okwara, Romeo Charlotte, NC/Ardrey Kell
Prosise, C.J. Petersburg, VA/Woodberry Forest
Shembo, Prince Charlotte, NC/Ardrey Kell
Shumate, Elijah East Orange, NJ/Don Bosco Prep
Stockton, Tyler Linwood, NJ/Hun School
Williams, Ishaq Brooklyn, NY/Lincoln

Mid West
Brindza, Kyle Canton, MI/Plymouth
Carr, Kevin Nashville, TN/Montgomery Bell Academy
Cavalaris, Connor Lake Forest, IL/Lake Forest
Collinsworth, Austin Fort Thomas, KY/Highlands
Daly, Scott Downers Grove, IL/South
Daniels, DaVaris Vernon Hills, IL/Vernon Hills
Day, Sheldon Indianapolis, IN/Warren Central
Elmer, Steve Midland, MI/Midland
Fiessinger, Charlie Mason, OH/Moeller
Fox, Dan Rocky River, OH/St. Ignatius
Furlong, Dan Livonia, MI/Orchard Lake St. Mary's
Grace, Jarrett Cincinnati, OH/Colerain
Hardy, Eilar Reynoldsburg, OH/Pickerington Central
Hendrix, Andrew Cincinnati, OH/Moeller
Hounshell, Chase Kirtland, OH/Lake Catholic
Koyack, Ben Oil City, PA/Oil City
Little, Connor Lake Elmo, MN/Hill-Murray
Mahone, Will Austintown, OH/Fitch
Martin, Nick Indianapolis, IN/Bishop Chatard
Martin, Zack Indianapolis, IN/Bishop Chatard
Massa, Luke Cincinnati, OH/St. Xavier
Onwualu, James Saint Paul, MN/Cretin-Derham Hall
Plantz, Tyler Frankfort, IL/Providence Catholic
Rees, Tommy Lake Forest, IL/Lake Forest
Lee, Eric West Des Moines, IA/Dowling Catholic
Lombard, Christian Inverness, IL/Fremd
Romano, Joe River Forest, IL/Fenwick
Smith, Daniel South Bend, IN/Clay
Springmann, Tony Fort Wayne, IN/Bishop Dwenger
Turner, John Indianapolis, IN/Cathedral
Watt, Chris Glen Ellyn, IL/Glenbard West
Welch, Alex Cincinnati, OH/Elder
Zaire, Malik Kettering, OH/Archbishop Alter

West
Anderson, Josh Chatsworth, CA/Notre Dame
Atkinson III, George Stockton, CA/Granada
Atkinson, Josh Stockton, CA/Granada
Carlisle, Amir Santa Clara,CA/Kings Academy
Hegarty, Matt Aztec, NM/Aztec
Utupo, Justin Lakewood, CA/Lakewood
Martinez, Gerard Las Vegas, NV/Cimarron Memorial
McOsker, Eamon San Pedro, CA/Loyola
Niklas, Troy Fullerton, CA/Servite
Rhodes, Jude Kapsowar, Kenya/Nordhoff (Ojai, CA)
Schmidt, Joe Orange, CA/Mater Dei
Schwenke, Kona Hauula, HI/Kahuku
Stanley, Ronnie Las Vegas, NV/Bishop Gorman
Russell, KeiVarae Everett, WA/Mariner
Badger, Chris Provo, UT/Timpview
Liebscher, Ryan Colorado Springs, CO/Cheyenne Mountain
Spond, Danny Littleton, CO/Columbine

South
Baratti, Nicky Tomball, TX/Klein Oak
Brooks, Joey Houston, TX/Strake Jesuit College Prep
Brown, Jalen Irving, TX/MacArthur
Heggie, Bruce Sorrento, FL/Mount Dora
Heuerman, Mike Naples, FL/Barron Collier
Jones, TJ Roswell, GA/Gainesville
Martinez, Arturo Miami, FL/Belen Jesuit
McDaniel, Cam Coppell, TX/Coppell
Nix III, Louis Jacksonville, FL/Raines
Rabasa, Anthony Miami, FL/Columbus
Robinson, Corey San Antonio, TX/San Antonio Ch
Soto, Ernie Davie, FL/St. Thomas Aquinas
Tausch, Nick Plano, TX/Jesuit
Tuitt, Stephon Monroe, GA/Monroe
Wood, Lo Apopka, FL/Apopka

I put kids from Colorado and Utah in the west, Florida was included in the south even though its the east coast techinically.

Those highlighted are non scholarship.

 

[NDohio]

Hmmmm, not a single player from LA, MS, or AL. Wasn't that the deep south LAX was speaking of?

 

[NDdomer2]

Hmmmm, not a single player from LA, MS, or AL. Wasn't that the deep south LAX was speaking of?

It was. But how many offers went out to kids from those states in the last four years? Hard to get a commitment with no offers.

We recruit hundreds of kids every year and only end up with 20-25 every year.

If we are going to get worried about the cost of recruiting kids we shouldn't limit that concern just to the deep south, we lose on kids from all over the country every year.

Maybe we go 0'fer in those states this year but our hard work making inroads may pay dividends next year.

e.g. look at the list of kids from the west. all but like 4 are from California. I don't hear anyone griping about recruiting Arizona, Nevada, Washington etc.

 

[IrishLax]

My mistake here. I misinterpreted/misread your geographic definitions. I've spent most of my life on the eastern seaboard and, in the world of college recruiting, consider South Carolina, Georgia and Florida as "South" rather than east coast.

With that said, I would never limit ND's recruiting map to east coast and midwest. We are a national brand and should recruit nationally, excluding no region/state. California has been good to us. Hawaii has been good to us recently. Hopefully AL, LA, MS are good to us in the future.

My original comment was: Not wanting to recruit a talent rich state out of fear for future de-commits is ludicrous. . I stand by that 100%.

OK hold on.... California has been TERRIBLE to us and this is one of the main reasons I feel the way I do. If ND was signing 25 kids for 20 spots every year I'd be fine recruiting the areas you're talking about... but we don't... so we should be afraid of getting burned. Here's a quick California recap for the last decade taken from ISD:

2003: Freddie Parish – Transfer, bust
2004: Terrail Lambert – Multi-year starter
Brandon Nicholas – Transfer
Anthony Vernaglia – Bust
2005: None
2006: Konrad Reuland – Transfer
Will Yeatman – Transfer
2007: Jimmy Clausen – Multi-year starter; rumors of maturity/attitude problems
2008: Dayne Crist – Bust
Anthony McDonald – Bust
Joseph Fauria – Transfer
2009: Shaq Evans – Transfer
Cierre Wood – Multi year starter; rumors of maturity/attitude problems
2010: Cameron Roberson – Injury
2011: George Atkinson – potential starter
Josh Atkinson – backup
Troy Nicklas – Starter
2012: Tee Sheppard – Transfer
Deontee Greenberry – Flipped on LOI day
2013: Eddie Vanderdoes – backed out of LOI
Max Redfield – Expected to enroll; top prospect

I mean... you're talking about 10 out of 13 guys who have finished their careers busting out of the program. That's over a 75% bust rate. Of guys with eligibility left, we've gotten two potential contributors, a backup, three busts no longer with the program, and one top prospect expected to enroll. No matter what way you try to dress that pig, it isn't pretty.

My entire premise is based on... I don't know what to call it... but it's basically a "OBPS" for recruits. You're right that there is value to chasing high guys, but ND get burned more harshly than most when one doesn't pan out because we both don't oversign and don't take JUCOs. Now consider the fact that somewhere between 50%-80% of the kids from California are going to fail at ND... does it really make sense to focus recruiting there? Even if we could land all the prospects we wanted? The answer is clearly no. I think you don't go chase/push, but rather make exceptions for guys that show legitimate interest off the bat in the ND program.

If you draw a giant "Y" on the map of the US from Maine to Florida and then across the middle of the country through Iowa that is Notre Dame's recruiting sweet spot. Everything outside of this general area is "pursue at your own risk"... more often than not, history shows it is not going to end well, and then we're going to be left with a hole on our depth chart.

So no... it isn't "ludicrous" avoid a talent rich state... it's common sense. Take USC for example... go read their boards about the issues they've had with their national recruiting. By not focusing enough on their home grown talent and instead reaching for "better" nationwide talent that transfers/doesn't pan out it has REALLY hurt them. Their 2010 class had FIVE 5 players in it... every single one of them transferred except for Robert Woods who was home grown. So now Kiffin is making a concerted effort to go back to basic and not extend lots of national offers to high players in this class because it has become such an issue.

Between Illinois/Michigan/Ohio/Indiana/Pennsylvania/New Jersey/Maryland/Virginia/North Carolina/South Carolina... Notre Dame can easily field a BCS caliber team with a much higher retention rate of the recruits. Supplemented with a few right guys from Georgia/Florida and non-traditional New York, New England, and extended Midwest (Wisconsin/Minnesota/Missouri/Kentucky/etc.) there is really no reason to chase prospects in California or the deep south who aren't perfect fits because the risk outweighs the reward. We're playing with something like 78 scholarship players this year before fall camp even starts because of **** ups. When you don't oversign or take JUCOs, the risk is VERY real and very serious.

My point was about the respect Saban/Miles have with Curtis and that if his guy chooses another school, whether that's ND or Montana State, they will respect it because they respect the program/Curtis and want to continue that relationship. The ND staff has to build a relationship with Curtis and the program. It's not going to be easy and I'm not predicting Dupre or Young to pick ND. I, unlike you, have no problem with them trying. I LOVE that they're knocking on every door they can.

I understand where you're coming from here and if you're confident in these guys "sticking" with whatever choice they make then that makes sense. I don't have a problem with ND 'knocking on the door'... I have a problem with them going all in for guys who have a top school list like "Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, ND" because it's an obvious tell that the kid is putting an emphasis on football-first and not what makes ND different. That's just typically asking for trouble down the road. You give me a bunch of kids like Tillery who are looking at Stanford or Vandy or wherever and then OK... recruit the hell out of Louisiana.

 

[STLDomer]

It was. But how many offers went out to kids from those states in the last four years? Hard to get a commitment with no offers.

We recruit hundreds of kids every year and only end up with 20-25 every year.

If we are going to get worried about the cost of recruiting kids we shouldn't limit that concern just to the deep south, we lose on kids from all over the country every year.

Maybe we go 0'fer in those states this year but our hard work making inroads may pay dividends next year.

e.g. look at the list of kids from the west. all but like 4 are from California. I don't hear anyone griping about recruiting Arizona, Nevada, Washington etc.

actually there was a whole mess of a thread on II with people wanting to give up on recruiting California and Arizona after the EV/Kyle Allen news. It was hilarious

 

[IrishLax]

actually there was a whole mess of a thread on II with people wanting to give up on recruiting California and Arizona after the EV/Kyle Allen news. It was hilarious

When over the last decade you have a 75%+ fail rate on kids who are committed on NSD... is that really illogical? I don't think you give up recruiting Cali because there are enough kids out there that fit the ND mold but it's really hard to argue with the results. They aren't good.

 

[NDdomer2]

actually there was a whole mess of a thread on II with people wanting to give up on recruiting California and Arizona after the EV/Kyle Allen news. It was hilarious

Not a sub guy so I haven't seen that. Just saying we are basing it off number of players from that state then why recruit any state out west other than Cali.

And Lax yes those Cali stats are ugly, very ugly. But is it the states fault or the evaluator of the talent?

USC seems to have done well for themselves over history with kids from Cali.

This is an awesome topic. Should we take it to its own thread?