QB situation

[Riddickulous]

What's the consensus here? Is it time to move on from Book? Do you think it's worth it to let Jurkovec take his lumps?

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'm ready to move on from Book. I'm also about ready to move on from Long. But I want to see if Long is being hamstrung by his QBs inabilities first. So give me PJ the rest of the year. See what the offense looks like with a new QB. If it still sucks then new OC in 2020 too.

 

[fightingirish26]

I think book will start next week just bc of that C on his chest. First ever QB captain under kelly, hooray

 

[DogDaysIrish]

What's the consensus here? Is it time to move on from Book? Do you think it's worth it to let Jurkovec take his lumps, or would that backfire?

That would be fantastic. Thanks for asking. He had open receivers and decided to do the fox trot in the pocket all night. Was the OL gargabe....yup, but his eye progression downfield all season has been an embarrassment. He's got happy feet and has no confidence.

 

[BobbyMac]

I was done with Book after UVa. We know his ceiling, we know his lack of pocket presence, and he's a senior.

We know Phil has a higher ceiling and he has a lot of eligibility. He needs snaps. He's the future. The playoffs are 100% gone, so build for the next run.

 

[Blazers46]

Book is a symptom of a larger problem of BK and company not being able to develop a QB.

Invest in a QB coach and OC

 

[ACamp1900]

When was the last time ND had a truly elite QB??? I mean like a consensus top QB kind of guy? This used to be quarterback U,... why is it so freaking hard to get that guy lately?

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I’ve defended Book to a fault but I think it’s time we move forward. Book is likable and he’s smart...for whatever reason pressure flat out scares him and he just comes apart at the seams. He gets tunnel vision. I kept hoping he would progress and grow out of it but I think it’s clear that’s not happening.

We can win out with Book but will that help ND for 2020 and beyond? We don’t want a QB competition with Phil losing reps going into next season, so with that thought, why not start him now and work out the kinks? The concerning flip side to that scenario is it will be hard winning out if Phil has serious growing pains and turns the ball over a ton because that could add up to losses. We don’t want to end up 7/4 or 8/4 and our incoming class fall apart.

If ND can win every game by running the ball and having Phil play ball control then it’s an easier answer. Start Phil

 

[Ignats]

Book is a symptom of a larger problem of BK and company not being able to develop a QB.

Invest in a QB coach and OC

I wholeheartedly agree with this, but also think talent ID isn't helping them either. The guys who transferred out (Kiel, Everett, Malik, Wimbush) never ended up having much success either. But again, that could be because of the poor coaching they received from their freshman years.

There aren't a lot of "great" QB's out there, but they can be found.

 

[BobbyMac]

I’ve defended Book to a fault but I think it’s time we move forward. Book is likable and he’s smart...for whatever reason pressure flat out scares him and he just comes apart at the seams. He gets tunnel vision. I kept hoping he would progress and grow out of it but I think it’s clear that’s not happening.

We can win out with Book but will that help ND for 2020 and beyond? We don’t want a QB competition with Phil losing reps going into next season, so with that thought, why not start him now and work out the kinks? The concerning flip side to that scenario is it will be hard winning out if Phil has serious growing pains and turns the ball over a ton because that could add up to losses. We don’t want to end up 7/4 or 8/4 and our incoming class fall apart.

If ND can win every game by running the ball and having Phil play ball control then it’s an easier answer. Start Phil

If you think Phil is going to take over and be Tommy Rees, you've got another thing coming. Phil workss downfield. It's in his DNA.

 

[Irishize]

Despite ND being favored to win their remaining games, after tonight; I’m convinced they’ll lose at least one of them regardless of whose playing QB. When the analyst in the booth is even pointing out Book’s deficiencies in game seven, then it’s unlikely to improve going forward.

 

[Riddickulous]

When was the last time ND had a truly elite QB??? I mean like a consensus top QB kind of guy? This used to be quarterback U,... why is it so freaking hard to get that guy lately?

I'd argue they were pretty close with DeShone Kizer, but they failed in getting him to take that next step after a really good 2015.

I think we've had 4 elite potential talents under Kelly: Crist, Kiel, Kizer, and Wimbush. I also think Golson and Zaire could've been really good college QBs with better coaching. The fact that none of those players developed is a permanent stain on Kelly's legacy IMO.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'd argue they were pretty close with DeShone Kizer, but they failed in getting him to take that next step after a really good 2015.

I think we've had 4 elite potential talents under Kelly: Crist, Kiel, Kizer, and Wimbush. I also think Golson and Zaire could've been really good college QBs with better coaching. The fact that none of those players developed is a permanent stain on Kelly's legacy IMO.

Golson got plenty of clock. He was productive and he was flawed. He had Clausen like numbers in '14 but he had 14 INT's and too many fumbles.

Malik will always be a big "What If". It was his team, he breaks his leg at UVa after a near perfect game vs Texas and is never the same physically or mentally afterwards. Kizer was just better when he came back.

Most times when a QB goes in the 2nd round, he was pretty close to an elite college QB.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Now Book has folded. Brian Kelly, the QB killer.

 

[ulukinatme]

Kizer wasn't great, he was okay, he was bailed out a lot by Fuller. 2016 was a different story once Fuller was gone. I really liked Zaire before the injury, but he definitely was a different person afterwards. I think at this point there's still a possibility of playing for a NY6 bowl, but I don't know if we belong there this year. Offensively we don't have an identity, and I'm not sure what we're doing. Michigan did much of what Georgia did to stop us offensively, but the rain complicated things and made it worse for us. I don't think Phil is the answer given what little he did at the end of this game, although it was nice to finally see us push the ball down the field at the end even if it was against backups. Book only took one shot that I remember. I do think Long needs to go, let BK call the plays with Book and see what happens. Maybe Clark needs to get some snaps, I dunno.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

When was the last time ND had a truly elite QB??? I mean like a consensus top QB kind of guy? This used to be quarterback U,... why is it so freaking hard to get that guy lately?

Do you mean a truly elite "college" qb or as most like to do....an NFL ready QB? Quinn was a truly elite college QB. Didn't translate to the next level but he was amazing in college.

 

[Irishize]

ND will be favored in their five remaining games. After tonight, I don’t think any of us would be shocked to see them lay an egg and lose at least one of those. So you have to ask yourself is Ian Book the QB ND needs to take them to the next level in 2020? If the answer is “No”, then why not make a change now?

I’ve held off on calling for a change but after tonight Book showed he hasn’t progressed from the Clemson game (maybe even earlier). I like the kid & wish him the best but he really struggles in the pocket and the majority of his throws are off his back foot due to avoiding a rush or ensuring the ball doesn’t get batted down.

I doubt BK will make a change unless Book struggles b/c he’s a captain & has shown he can manage a game well enough to beat average teams. ND will be on upset alert for the next five weeks. Buckle up.

 

[BeatSC]

When has an ND QBs has a schittier game than tonight? When has an OC had a worse game calling plays? Where was Lenzy and Kmet? No excuse for not having them touch the ball more than once. BTW Jafar can go back to WR. Lousy refereeing again surprise! Michigan isn’t back just bet against Kelly on the road. BTW we stink and our tackling is terrible. Nobody getting drafted on day one and no one should dream of coming out early.

If I were Young I would want someone who can throw the ball too.

 

[pumpdog20]

PJ or bust. It was a good run Ian, but we need to move on. Just like last year.

 

[BeatSC]

I still like BW and feel certain he could have done a lot better than that tonight. Book has been less than pedestrian this year and has exceeded his dreams and potential. At this point don’t want him back next year even as a backup. Don’t need the noise and distraction imo. How could we not have on earth slant play all night? We got the score to 17-7 right? The thought of something better is needed. That or the next guy.

 

[Jerry]

When was the last time ND had a truly elite QB??? I mean like a consensus top QB kind of guy? This used to be quarterback U,... why is it so freaking hard to get that guy lately?

If you’re a 5 star QB with offers from Bama, Clemson, Oklahoma, ect. You know college is a stepping stone to the nfl. Do you even consider ND? Look at the players those schools have produced just in the last couple years. Watson, Mayfield, Murray, Hurts, Tua, Lawrence. Who does ND have? Kizer?

I think the reason ND has had trouble getting that guy lately is the track record.

 

[Luckylucci]

If you think Phil is going to take over and be Tommy Rees, you've got another thing coming. Phil workss downfield. It's in his DNA.

Let Phil work some b-ball on turf offense and see what happens. It can’t be worse than this.

 

[Crazy Balki]

If you’re a 5 star QB with offers from Bama, Clemson, Oklahoma, ect. You know college is a stepping stone to the nfl. Do you even consider ND? Look at the players those schools have produced just in the last couple years. Watson, Mayfield, Murray, Hurts, Tua, Lawrence. Who does ND have? Kizer?

I think the reason ND has had trouble getting that guy lately is the track record.

They've had no issue getting those guys.

Dayne Crist was that guy, Gunner Kiel was that guy, Brandon Wimbush was that guy, Phil Jurkovec is that guy, Ty Buchner is that guy.

The problem is that we aren't produce that guy to live up to his recruiting accolades. I don't think Kelly is cursed, but I do think he has some poor coaching on offense. Rees and Long are not getting it done. Before that, Crist was damaged goods, Kiel didn't see an opportunity to start and left (juuusst before Golson gets booted).

 

[Irish YJ]

Now that we've lost 2, all for PJ. I don't think he's the answer, but why not.

Play calling sucked. Coaching more than talent lost the game tonight.

 

[GATTACA!]

I've seen plenty of Book. He would make a fantastic backup. Nothing more.

Time to move on to PJ, even if that means losing one more this season.

So knowing Kelly Book will finish the season and start all of next year too.

 

[tadman95]

Late in the 2nd period it was 3rd and something ( I refuse to go back and look), Book drops back, the 1st read is covered, Book takes off and runs for no gain. While still in the pocket, down the right side Lenzy (I think) is 20 yards behind the defense. Book never saw him. All he had to was get the ball airborne. That's when I was done.

Book is a game manager. Without elite talent around him, Book, as with any average QB, cannot take us to a higher level offense. I don't know if PJ can do better but I'm ready for a change. I think Book has trouble seeing the middle of the field. at least PJ can go vertical which this offense really needs to open up.

 

[Irish in Ohio]

Book had open receivers open all night, if his first read isn't open he panics and runs. Time to move on to Phil.

 

[BabyIrish]

Now that we've lost 2, all for PJ. I don't think he's the answer, but why not.

Play calling sucked. Coaching more than talent lost the game tonight.

I disagree, I’m completely frustrated with the players.
How do you snap the ball into Kmet right after a penalty from UM? And then false start the very next play to lose all your momentum?
How does Jones even try to pick up that ball? How does your safety a captain, come over and not play the ball and just completely maul the receiver to sustain a drive for a second time?
How does Book continue to miss open receivers he’s staring at? Or just miss east rpo reads?

The only coach I’m puzzled by is Lea and not stacking the box in the first half. Long isn’t spectacular by any means but he’s also not bad.

Players were put in a position to succeed but just completely blew it.

 

[stlnd01]

I disagree, I’m completely frustrated with the players.
How do you snap the ball into Kmet right after a penalty from UM? And then false start the very next play to lose all your momentum?
How does Jones even try to pick up that ball? How does your safety a captain, come over and not play the ball and just completely maul the receiver to sustain a drive for a second time?
How does Book continue to miss open receivers he’s staring at? Or just miss east rpo reads?

The only coach I’m puzzled by is Lea and not stacking the box in the first half. Long isn’t spectacular by any means but he’s also not bad.

Players were put in a position to succeed but just completely blew it.

Players. Coaches. Plenty of blame to go around last night.
Except for Bramblett. He played great.

 

[stlnd01]

As for Book, I was surprised they didn’t put Phil in to start the second half, TBH.
I’m sure the weather messed with Book’s already-tentative game but every DC must know by now he completely loses it under pressure. After a season and a half it’s hard to see that changing. Plus he just can’t or won’t take the top off a D. That won’t change either. His entire game is hitting big receivers on middle-distance routes and that’s just not enough to beat a good D.
I don’t really see any reason not to try Phil next week and see what happens.