Pot vs. Alcohol

[NeuteredDoomer]

Is there a three footed reindeer on this site? And I thought your kind had hooves.

There are one, two, and three footed reindeer, each who lost a limb to either a bad driver, or former VP D.ICK Cheney during a shooting "accident."

I prefer the word "foots" over "hooves." Makes me feel more dignified.

 

[TinyT]

It's not just you deer that have to worry about Cheney, that guy is a headhunter.

 

[BGIF]

I am perfectly fine driving under the influence of marijuana so that's never been a problem for me. It's one of the biggest reasons on why I prefer marijuana. I can still drive and not put other people in danger if I want to go somewhere.

Q.E.D.

 

[johnnykillz]

I'm perfectly fine with a 5000 lb grenade while stoned. I can harmlessly replace the pin after juggling it before it kills me and my twelve neighbors...

 

[BeauBenken]

Why do we need a "breathalyzer" for marijuana? We don't have it and marijuana is already prevalent. What about cocaine, heroin, etc? It's not like people don't do them and drive anyway.

EVERYONE knows they could get marijuana in a 30 minutes if they really want it. Yet we continue to throw everyone in jail (which is quite expensive) for a fairly harmless drug.

Are there potheads who are wastes? Yes, absolutely. But there is no evidence either way on whether they're just losers and would be sniffing glue or something if they didn't have marijuana. Also, only 12% of marijuana smokers are daily ones.

To control people from driving under the influence of it.

I'm ok with the legalization of it. I'm actually quite pro-legalization. If something is already illegal, they don't need a breathalyzer, but if you legalize it then you still have to control and regulate its use somehow.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I am perfectly fine driving under the influence of marijuana so that's never been a problem for me. It's one of the biggest reasons on why I prefer marijuana. I can still drive and not put other people in danger if I want to go somewhere.

Q.E.D.

Phenomenal BGIF!

 

[Irish Insanity]

Why do we need a "breathalyzer" for marijuana? We don't have it and marijuana is already prevalent. What about cocaine, heroin, etc? It's not like people don't do them and drive anyway.

EVERYONE knows they could get marijuana in a 30 minutes if they really want it. Yet we continue to throw everyone in jail (which is quite expensive) for a fairly harmless drug.

Are there potheads who are wastes? Yes, absolutely. But there is no evidence either way on whether they're just losers and would be sniffing glue or something if they didn't have marijuana. Also, only 12% of marijuana smokers are daily ones.

Make it a policy where there was a small limit on the amount you would be allowed to carry, no public use, or operation of a motor vehicle while under the influence. So i'd be ok with it if they pretty much made it where you could only smoke in the privacy of your home/yard or at a buddies house and didn't drive. There are alot of people who claim they don't get affected to where they can't drive when they smoke, and some that claim the same when they're drunk. But what they claim and what others on the road witness is not always the same. We all know there are times when we feel we're all good and can get behind the wheel when in reality it probably isn't the best decision. I've had a life long childhood friend die from drinking and driving while we were in high school, a family member that died in a motorcycle accident after being hit by an underaged drunk driver, and a family friend who killed 2 people while driving drunk. Legalizing and monitering pot I don't believe would be any harder that it is for alcohol. And with all the loss i've known in my life involving alcohol, I'm fine with it being legal and believe its the person not the drink that caused these losses.

 

[woolybug25]

Medical marijuana is legal in Colorado and I know a good deal of people with cards to obtain it. I have always been pro-legalization, but here are some thoughts on what I have seen by living in a state where it is looked at different.

Gateway drug? - This argument can be true in some sense, but not because of the drug itself. Marijuana is far less harmful in its effects vs alcohol, and contains no chemical that would make someone crave more powerful drugs. What causes "gateway drugs", is not the drug itself, its the element you are put into to obtain it. When you have to obtain something illegally, you are forced to surround yourself with people and situations where other drugs, crime or negative reinforcement occur. Just because someone enjoys pot, doesn't mean that they enjoy surrounding themselves by a criminal element. In fact, in Colorado, I have found that the legality of it allows people to discretely use marijuana and surround themselves with whichever crowd they feel is best for them. If alcohol was illegal, it would have this same gateway effects. So I would argue that there are no "Gateway drugs", rather "gateway situations". Legalizing it allows people to avoid having to surround themselves with an otherwise avoidable criminal element.

Health Reasons - This argument is BS. Find me someone that has overdosed on weed and I will show you a kitten that breathes fire. Marijuana is unique in this sense compared to most drugs, even legal ones. You probably know someone that has gotten severely sick or died from from legal drugs like pain medication, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.... but find me one person that had marijuana to directly blame for illness or death.


Then there are the benefits...

- Reduction in crime (drug dealers tend to sell illegal things)
- Reduction in marijuana trafficing and the effects that come with it.
- Reduction in prison costs
- Enormous tax generation
- cheap medication for a variety of illnesses compared to their "currently legal" counterparts.


Now, to answer the question that will undoubtably be asked ("Wont drug dealers only sell harder drugs now?"), the answer is yes. There will always be people that sell illicit drugs. The difference is that someone that smokes pot is no more likely to want illegal drugs than alcohol drinkers if it is legal. Not everyone that smokes pot is into the criminal element of it. The people that get caught up with hard drugs like cocaine, LCD, meth, etc will get into that stuff either way. They are into the criminal element, not marijuana in particular.

 

[IrishInColumbus]

To control people from driving under the influence of it.

It was a rhetorical question. My point is that marijuana is so prevalent now and there aren't breathalyzers.

Medical marijuana is legal in Colorado and I know a good deal of people with cards to obtain it. I have always been pro-legalization, but here are some thoughts on what I have seen by living in a state where it is looked at different.

Gateway drug? - This argument can be true in some sense, but not because of the drug itself. Marijuana is far less harmful in its effects vs alcohol, and contains no chemical that would make someone crave more powerful drugs. What causes "gateway drugs", is not the drug itself, its the element you are put into to obtain it. When you have to obtain something illegally, you are forced to surround yourself with people and situations where other drugs, crime or negative reinforcement occur. Just because someone enjoys pot, doesn't mean that they enjoy surrounding themselves by a criminal element. In fact, in Colorado, I have found that the legality of it allows people to discretely use marijuana and surround themselves with whichever crowd they feel is best for them. If alcohol was illegal, it would have this same gateway effects. So I would argue that there are no "Gateway drugs", rather "gateway situations". Legalizing it allows people to avoid having to surround themselves with an otherwise avoidable criminal element.

Health Reasons - This argument is BS. Find me someone that has overdosed on weed and I will show you a kitten that breathes fire. Marijuana is unique in this sense compared to most drugs, even legal ones. You probably know someone that has gotten severely sick or died from from legal drugs like pain medication, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.... but find me one person that had marijuana to directly blame for illness or death.


Then there are the benefits...

- Reduction in crime (drug dealers tend to sell illegal things)
- Reduction in marijuana trafficing and the effects that come with it.
- Reduction in prison costs
- Enormous tax generation
- cheap medication for a variety of illnesses compared to their "currently legal" counterparts.


Now, to answer the question that will undoubtably be asked ("Wont drug dealers only sell harder drugs now?"), the answer is yes. There will always be people that sell illicit drugs. The difference is that someone that smokes pot is no more likely to want illegal drugs than alcohol drinkers if it is legal. Not everyone that smokes pot is into the criminal element of it. The people that get caught up with hard drugs like cocaine, LCD, meth, etc will get into that stuff either way. They are into the criminal element, not marijuana in particular.

+1

The Union

^^^^^
just watch this before you think it should be illegal.

 

[phgreek]

Neutered and LA: robot still won't let me rep everybody I want to, but publicly "reps".

I cannot choose other peoples' moralities, but I taught "brain chemistry" and the effects of drugs of many sorts on the brain's major three neurotransmitters for years. Things like THC and nicotine and ethanol operate as depressants on certain brain areas [not all, and not all the same] resulting in reduction of signaling in critical areas. Translated onto the human scale, this tends in most people to lessen total "nervousness", if you want to put it that way.

As the brain is dumbed down in key responses in the Thalamus, the bombardment-reduction/filter center, some people can get some relief from the level of anxiety that they have in their lives and "relax". [This can even be from a kind of social-awkwardness they have, which benefits from "relaxing".] The pace and stress of modern American life makes this resultant desirable, even though the consumers don't know the mechanism as to why they get the result. This pace-of-life or loaded stress in the USA is why it is the "depressants" are the overwhelming drugs of choice statistically. Note that other things such as Heroin et al are the extreme end of this "bringing it down" phenomenon. [It is true that youngsters like to take spectacular "excitor" drugs to "have a blast", but this state is usually not constantly sought as general life is fast enough].

There are many other resultants from regular drug use of the "social depressants" but if one wants to "indulge" one should at least clearly understand what's happening and not fantasize about it. For example, tests of guys on pot knocked over just as many traffic cones as the guys high on ethanol [they just were more laid back about doing so].

One thing that older pot smokers should also not fantasize about. Everyone knows that nicotine is a venal constrictor and that you should not smoke if you have coronary artery problems due to risk of bringing on a stroke. Tetrahydrocannabinol is a many times greater venal constrictor than nicotine. Stop smoking it at least once you get that sort of situation or you won't be around as long for the people who love you.

Youngsters will of course go for the pleasure without thought of the pain --- they are, afterall, supermen who are "different" from everyone else. At least they should do us all a favor and learn whatthehell the real situation is and let someone else drive home.

Thank you OMM...

I am the Son of a pharmacist...while my perspective led to a boring life by most standards, I am beyond thankful for it. I never had a chance to play with Mary Jane...but knew full well what she did ...My dad would come get me after whatever sports practice, and take me back to the store so he could knock out the backlog of proscriptions. I got the OMM-like perspective nearly every day of my life. I listened to my dad on this issue...so I don't know how you feel when you smoke pot...but I'm confident you aren't OK to drive. I've been around it, I had very close friends who did it...I drank beer, they smoked pot, but we all lived by the same driving rules.

I also got a real education on Steroids...knew the side effects just based on being in the pharmacy, and knew them long before SI came out with their stories. When people had to take steroids I heard my dad's spiel to the patient (yea that was back when pharmacists actually sat you down and talked to you). And pain killers...Geez, anyway, for a different day. Lets just say I put up with alot of pain before I touch that Shi!...how anyone could seek it out for "recreational" use is stunning to me...its like steroids with no up side...

Should Pot be legal...I'm for fewer well enforced laws, not more half-assed ones. I'd say pot is half-assed enforcement. (don't believe me...how many raids per week do we see...any of you partakers of the lettuce have any problem replenishing your stock?) I don't believe in the financial argument for legalization, as some pointed out...its too easy to grow. However legalization removes something we SUCK at enforcing from the cop's/Fed's list of crap to worry about...and yes hammer DUIs involving pot just like booze. As well, legalization takes away a major enterprise from foreigners...anytime we can collapse someone else's economy, count me in. I just wish we could grow oil on trees.

 

[IrishInColumbus]

As the son of a pharmacist you should also know tens of thousands of people (last I read it was ~30,000+) die each year from overdosing on prescription medications. Another couple thousand die from over-the-counter drugs.

The financial argument works because even if the taxes were small with weed, the estimates include the myriad hemp products.

OVI's are a tertiary issue for me, since marijuana is so prevalent anyway and it doesn't happen that often. Plus I don't see many people gaining steam with their prohibition argument with alcohol because of the numerous jackasses who drive hammered.

 

[phgreek]

As the son of a pharmacist you should also know tens of thousands of people (last I read it was ~30,000+) die each year from overdosing on prescription medications. Another couple thousand die from over-the-counter drugs..

I'll make a couple guesses at what your point is here...

1)my response is...yea, patients/Docs/Pharmacists screwing up resulting in death...or a known side effect running its course and killing someone...It happens more than anyone would like...but as cold as it seems, from a stats perspective...its pretty good. Not sure of the population of pot smokers, and how many die, but it'd be hard to compare. As well it'd never be a reasonable comparison because who keeps track of/goes after the grower/dealer if little johnny dies due to a reaction to pot...answer, no one because grower/dealer doesn't put a label on his stuff...lets just say the nature of pot right now makes it pretty tough to credibly make any claims regarding death, and percentages.

2) I chose to avoid pot based on my dad's description of what it did to you. Never was a moral issue to me. Fine for you, not for me. Like many other things I choose not to do, you can, and as long as you don't interfere with me, I don't care. However, if you are saying those who die from taking a proscribed drug as directed somehow legitimizes recreational pot use because pot doesn't kill you...I just don't know where to start...lets just say that line of thinking starts and ends with us on opposing sides.

The financial argument works because even if the taxes were small with weed, the estimates include the myriad hemp products.

ah, yes another specialized tax...great idea...what about enforcement? My thoughts are we legalize it to avoid Fed/law enforcement costs (among other things). Fed can't afford, nor are they competent enough to create an addition to the tax code for this... like today's tax code, it becomes political...who pays, who gets a write off...is it an alternative farm, is it medicinal...all BS...not worth it. I'd vote no just to stop another stupid unenforceable code that would undoubtedly be used as a political weapon. For me, its less about the concept of tax, and more about the reality of the implementation that is the evil. My view is legalize, and stay out of the specifics of the busines...let the IRS tax profits like any other business...let cops bust illegal activity related to things like DUI, public intoxication...whatever.

OVI's are a tertiary issue for me, since marijuana is so prevalent anyway and it doesn't happen that often. Plus I don't see many people gaining steam with their prohibition argument with alcohol because of the numerous jackasses who drive hammered.

we kind of agree...I was saying we shouldn't fear it more than alcohol, and just nail those who smoke and drive...just as we do those who drink and drive.

 

[IrishInColumbus]

I think we generally agree.

My point was that LEGAL drugs kill tens of thousands while illegal marijuana kills far fewer, and marijuana alone doesn't kill anyone.

I didn't explicitly say taxing hemp products more than any other business, that would be a bad thing. Simply taxing them regularly is added tax revenue.

 

[betecd]

This prude is against it LOL and forever will be. Seen too many kids in use it as a gateway drug, so I just can't be down with it. Sorry fellas.

And I prefer alcohol to weed by a country mile...

That's fine if you prefer alcohol but it's pretty ignorant for you to think that alcohol is not a gateway drug as well. I 've known pill poppers that never touched weed but mixing there booze with pills was how they got their start. I am on team weed here but thank you to my Dad's Old Milaukee's Best givin me my first buzz! Life is better with both!

 

[Rocket89]

Have you ever watched ND Football...

...on weed!?!?!?

Ah, man it's the best!

 

[mgriff]

Pot all day long. Anyone under the impression that alcohol is somehow better, in any way, shape, form, or context, is mistaken.

 

[NDinL.A.]

That's fine if you prefer alcohol but it's pretty ignorant for you to think that alcohol is not a gateway drug as well. I 've known pill poppers that never touched weed but mixing there booze with pills was how they got their start. I am on team weed here but thank you to my Dad's Old Milaukee's Best givin me my first buzz! Life is better with both!

Point out to me the EXACT spot where I said that alcohol isn't a gateway drug. Seriously, it's like me saying that you think that life isn't good for ANYBODY who doesn't drink and smoke. Don't put words into my mouth.

I will say that in my experience as a student around a bunch of potheads, and as an educator (either as a coach, teacher's assistant, or teacher) for over 18 years in some of the toughest neighborhoods in Los Angeles (Boyle Heights, South Central LA, East LA), that there were a far greater number of kids who started with pot and went to harder drugs than kids who started drank only beer and went to harder drugs. It's not hard statistics, it's just from experience. Not all guys who smoke pot are unmotivated, and not all people who start on beer stay on beer only. I can only go from what I have seen, and my own experiences.

I do know that if pot were legal, I would probably have tried it and knowing me, I could have easily fallen into the same spiral that my friends in high school went into (didn't graduate from college and working dead-end jobs). Again, that's not everyone, that's just me and my tendencies - I'm glad it wasn't legal. Even though I was offered all the time and refused, when I was young the illegality of it actually scared me straight. When I was old enough to know it wasn't for me, the illegality meant far less but I was glad it was illegal when I personally needed it to be, if that makes any sense.

If you smoke pot, fine by me. For me, I don't think it should be legalized, but I'm certainly not going to get into a huge argument over it on an Irish website with Irish fans. Carry on.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

I don't partake in either, but alcohol kills a hell of a lot of people each year so my vote is for Pot.

 

[Veer option]

I am all for decriminalizing and or legalizing Marijuana. There are much more dangerous drugs like meth which the resources from combating the production and distribution of pot should be spent on. Legalize it, tax it and invest in Totinos Pizza rolls.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

Being a nurse in the Oncology unit, I have seen tremendous benefits to my patients from medical marijuana.

As a former teenager who used to partake in the activity, I say I was never swayed or even curious to try anything other type of drug so I don't believe it's a gateway DRUG. Is it a gateway to laziness and over eating? Yep. But no never once did me or my friend say, "gee I think it would be fun to snort bleach tabs and fertilizer."

I also believe if it were legal, crime would go down (my theory is backed by the low crime rates of Amsterdam and Brazil where it is legal) and if we taxed it, our economy would boom.

But on the other hand, you'd still have meth heads, crack heads, coke heads, and alcoholics who would ruin everything for those who really did use it recreationally and with brains.

 

[IrishInColumbus]

I am all for decriminalizing and or legalizing Marijuana. There are much more dangerous drugs like meth which the resources from combating the production and distribution of pot should be spent on. Legalize it, tax it and invest in state-of-the-art streetcar corridors and transportation hubs linked with high-speed rail lines.

Fixed. $47 billion annually invested in the proper infrastructure can do wonders for this country.

 

[Veer option]

Ill invest in Totinos Pizza rolls then. Gonna be rich when pot gets legalized and all the smokers get the collective munchies.

 

[OchoShayneO]

In moderation anything is good.

 

[ACamp1900]

In moderation anything is good.

Yes, crack cocaine... in modernation, or murder, or rape... as long as it isn't that often is a good thing...... sorry... had to...

and Alcohol all day long. Anyone under the impression that pot is somehow better, in any way, shape, form, or context, is mistaken.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

just one rock for me then im good!Sources: NFL prospects failed Combine drug test - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN oh the humanity

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

In keeping with the "vs." thread theme:

Ill take Alcohol and Mauk over Kiel and Weed. And i'd rather them (ND) legalize Floyd--now that is some sticky-icky good stuff.

 

[phgreek]

Fixed. $47 billion annually invested in the proper infrastructure can do wonders for this country.

AMEN...now is there any way to put that money in the hands of responsible adults? Tax revenues are controlled by congress, so unfortunately, it will be spent on duplicative programs that provide no tangible benefit...in other words kick-backs and payoffs.

 

[IrishInColumbus]

AMEN...now is there any way to put that money in the hands of responsible adults? Tax revenues are controlled by congress, so unfortunately, it will be spent on duplicative programs that provide no tangible benefit...in other words kick-backs and payoffs.

Well last I read most of the funding for the War of Drugs came form states, something like 25 of the 40 billion. I think the key would be grants, and letting states handle stuff. Imagine that? hahaha

 

[Rudy89]

alcohol all day long....when i post while drunk it keeps NDinLA on his toes and keeps him ready for trolls and other people ready to mess with the boards . In all seriousness I like alcohol in moderation and i only get ****faced drunk on special occasions. never done weed before but i wont try it cause I know I will like it and prolly spend money on it and I already lack money so....yea

 

[woolybug25]

Ill take Alcohol and Mauk over Kiel and Weed.

You take that back this instant!!!