Post Game Observations (MSU '16)

[ShawneeIrish]

If you're BK do you wait until after Stanford to 1) further justify the firing (probably not necessary), 2) Have the bi-week after to adjust, and 3) Not to put the new guy in a spot to get worked by Stanford?

Or just keep him forever because.

I think make the move now, but I think BK keeps BVG around until the offseason then brings in a new DC at the end of the season. Unfortunately, I also think BK brings in another loyalist for the job.

 

[IrishBroker]

My thoughts...In no order..just random

1. This was not a close game. We got blown out and MSU took the foot off the gas (almost cost them). Our D is so bad.

-CJ had that terrible fumble...Mistakes like that with our D, we cannot afford.
-Tillery had a decent game getting in the backfield. Rest of the Dline was awful. MSU blew us off the ball all night
-Tranquill is slow and takes bad angles
-Missed coverages on that TE out in the 2nd Q was terrible...I think it was Morgan and Studstill that got mixed up. Kept the drive going.
-Morgan gets cut way too easily. Needs to be more aware of his legs.
-Coney is not impressive at all, at this point. Dragged around all night by Scott and plays like he's 115lbs. Not effective.
-Cole Luke is not the anchor of a secondary. He's a #2 guy at best, had a bad game. Got blown by more than a couple times and missed a sure tackle late that set up MSU 1st and goal.
-LJ Scott destroyed us.
-I knew the game was over in the 3rd after MSU went up 22-7.

-I'll openly second guess BK on that 4th and 7 punt. You can't possibly be that daft to think your D, which has been getting gashed all night, would hold them for 3 mins? Come on man!

-Our offense wasn't good. Yeah, we piled on some points at the end, but the 3rd quarter was just a dumpster fire on both O an D. Kizer had a terrible 3rd, couldn't complete a pass to save his life. Then he threw that pick on the baited route...blah.

MSU, to their credit, was johnny on the spot with their blitzes.


I'll stick with my 4 loss prediction. That's a given this year. I've said this before, we are not a good team this year. We have good players, and some potential, but this isn't a good team. The sunshine on this site early on was hilarious. I love the optimism, but lets call it what it is...average to bad team, who has some really good pieces for the future.

 

[ScooterIrish]

My thoughts...In no order..just random

1. This was not a close game. We got blown out and MSU took the foot off the gas (almost cost them). Our D is so bad.

-CJ had that terrible fumble...Mistakes like that with our D, we cannot afford.
-Tillery had a decent game getting in the backfield. Rest of the Dline was awful. MSU blew us off the ball all night
-Tranquill is slow and takes bad angles
-Missed coverages on that TE out in the 2nd Q was terrible...I think it was Morgan and Studstill that got mixed up. Kept the drive going.
-Morgan gets cut way too easily. Needs to be more aware of his legs.
-Coney is not impressive at all, at this point. Dragged around all night by Scott and plays like he's 115lbs. Not effective.
-Cole Luke is not the anchor of a secondary. He's a #2 guy at best, had a bad game. Got blown by more than a couple times and missed a sure tackle late that set up MSU 1st and goal.
-LJ Scott destroyed us.
-I knew the game was over in the 3rd after MSU went up 22-7.

-I'll openly second guess BK on that 4th and 7 punt. You can't possibly be that daft to think your D, which has been getting gashed all night, would hold them for 3 mins? Come on man!

-Our offense wasn't good. Yeah, we piled on some points at the end, but the 3rd quarter was just a dumpster fire on both O an D. Kizer had a terrible 3rd, couldn't complete a pass to save his life. Then he threw that pick on the baited route...blah.

MSU, to their credit, was johnny on the spot with their blitzes.


I'll stick with my 4 loss prediction. That's a given this year. I've said this before, we are not a good team this year. We have good players, and some potential, but this isn't a good team. The sunshine on this site early on was hilarious. I love the optimism, but lets call it what it is...average to bad team, who has some really good pieces for the future.

Honestly, any commentary around most of the players on defense is a question mark because our coaching and scheme is so freaking bad. These players are not being put in a position to succeed. F BVG.

 

[kmoose]

Honestly, any commentary around most of the players on defense is a question mark because our coaching and scheme is so freaking bad. These players are not being put in a position to succeed. F BVG.

That's really not a fair statement. In the Texas game, Jerry Tillery had an almost unblocked path to the QB on the 2OT touchdown. How is that "not being put in a position to succeed"? How many missed tackles have we seen? Those guys were in position to succeed...

I think VanGorder is probably gone at the end of the season, if not before. But some of you are only setting yourself up for disappointment, by trying to put all the blame on BVG. And you will be in the exact same boat, when the next guy has the same issues.

 

[NDRock]

That's really not a fair statement. In the Texas game, Jerry Tillery had an almost unblocked path to the QB on the 2OT touchdown. How is that "not being put in a position to succeed"? How many missed tackles have we seen? Those guys were in position to succeed...

I think VanGorder is probably gone at the end of the season, if not before. But some of you are only setting yourself up for disappointment, by trying to put all the blame on BVG. And you will be in the exact same boat, when the next guy has the same issues.

You honestly think that we'll be in the same boat with someone else? Is it possible? Sure, but not likely. If there is one constant in college football, t's that coaching makes a huge difference. The fortunes of programs can change on a dime due to who gets hired.

 

[stlnd01]

That's really not a fair statement. In the Texas game, Jerry Tillery had an almost unblocked path to the QB on the 2OT touchdown. How is that "not being put in a position to succeed"? How many missed tackles have we seen? Those guys were in position to succeed...

I think VanGorder is probably gone at the end of the season, if not before. But some of you are only setting yourself up for disappointment, by trying to put all the blame on BVG. And you will be in the exact same boat, when the next guy has the same issues.

Coaching isn't just scheme though. In college it's also about teaching fundamentals, like disciplined tackling. Too many of our guys have poor fundamentals.
We have a lot of talented players on our defense - 8 of our 11 starters, absent Tranquil, Martini and Coleman, have the tools to start for just about anyone, IMO - they're just not playing like it. That's not just on the coaches, but a lot of it is on the coaches.

 

[Downinthebend]

So, I literally counted it.
We ran two zone reads the entire game.


three if you count the RPO that (unpopular opinion) i'm not sure is a RPO

 

[kmoose]

Coaching isn't just scheme though. In college it's also about teaching fundamentals, like disciplined tackling. Too many of our guys have poor fundamentals.
We have a lot of talented players on our defense - 8 of our 11 starters, absent Tranquil, Martini and Coleman, have the tools to start for just about anyone, IMO - they're just not playing like it. That's not just on the coaches, but a lot of it is on the coaches.

So it's your contention that these guys all had the fundamentals in High School to get numerous D-IA scholarship offers, and then Brain VanGorder fvcked those fundamentals up for these guys? Coaches need to motivate, I understand that. But the players can't quit playing with the same fundamentals that they were taught at 6-7-8 years old, and then blame it on coaching. These guys KNOW how to tackle properly. They're just choosing not to do it for some reason.

 

[kmoose]

You honestly think that we'll be in the same boat with someone else? Is it possible? Sure, but not likely. If there is one constant in college football, t's that coaching makes a huge difference. The fortunes of programs can change on a dime due to who gets hired.

If by "we" you mean the malcontents that are laying every ounce of blame on BVG, and by "the same boat" you mean blaming the coaches, then yes.

 

[IrishBroker]

Honestly, any commentary around most of the players on defense is a question mark because our coaching and scheme is so freaking bad. These players are not being put in a position to succeed. F BVG.

Most my comments are on their lack of fundamentals (angles or athleticism) and not scheme or positioning.

It seems our boys are lazy when it comes to tackling. They either launch themselves at the ball carrier, or don't get low enough and get taken for a ride.

LJ Scott dragged our safeties and Morgan and Coney all over the field.

 

[IrishBroker]

If by "we" you mean the malcontents that are laying every ounce of blame on BVG, and by "the same boat" you mean blaming the coaches, then yes.

I don't blame it all on BVG...but at some point "the buck stops here" applies.

Ultimately, even if it's lack of fundamentals, the coach is gonna fall on the sword. And if you read all the sunshine about our recruiting classes on this board, you'd assume that we are chalked with athletes and there is no reason we can't win every game.

So which is it? Lack of athletes, are we lying to ourselves about how good a recruit/class is?

Bad coaching? Is BVG holding us back? Is Kelly REALLY the guy to take us to the next level? I mean, it's year 7 and it looks like we are in for a 4-5 loss season.

 

[NDRock]

If by "we" you mean the malcontents that are laying every ounce of blame on BVG, and by "the same boat" you mean blaming the coaches, then yes.

Gotta hand it to you, you don't disappoint. What does a guy, who spent all last year defending the play of Joe Schmidt, do after he graduates? Apparently, defend the worst DC in Notre Dame's history. I wish his defenses could defend as well as you. You interested in a new job?

 

[rocket66]

Gotta hand it to you, you don't disappoint. What does a guy, who spent all last year defending the play of Joe Schmidt, do after he graduates? Apparently, defend the worst DC in Notre Dame's history. I wish his defenses could defend as well as you. You interested in a new job?

Haha. Reps.


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[Downinthebend]

Gotta hand it to you, you don't disappoint. What does a guy, who spent all last year defending the play of Joe Schmidt, do after he graduates? Apparently, defend the worst DC in Notre Dame's history. I wish his defenses could defend as well as you. You interested in a new job?

He isn't defending Tenuta!

 

[IrishBroker]

Gotta hand it to you, you don't disappoint. What does a guy, who spent all last year defending the play of Joe Schmidt, do after he graduates? Apparently, defend the worst DC in Notre Dame's history. I wish his defenses could defend as well as you. You interested in a new job?

LOL...

 

[IrishLion]

So it's your contention that these guys all had the fundamentals in High School to get numerous D-IA scholarship offers, and then Brain VanGorder fvcked those fundamentals up for these guys? Coaches need to motivate, I understand that. But the players can't quit playing with the same fundamentals that they were taught at 6-7-8 years old, and then blame it on coaching.These guys KNOW how to tackle properly. They're just choosing not to do it for some reason.

I would actually contend that coaching is literally the only thing you can blame it on when a guy isn't doing something he is very capable of doing.

If he isn't doing it, he's either lost in the scheme or he lacks motivation. Both of those things need to be corrected by coaching.

 

[Luckylucci]

I would actually contend that coaching is literally the only thing you can blame it on when a guy isn't doing something he is very capable of doing.If he isn't doing it, he's either lost in the scheme or he lacks motivation. Both of those things need to be corrected by coaching.

I would agree. We don't have a team of munchkins out there running around. These are fully capable P5 football players. I don't know what the reason is, but it is definitely a coaching issue.

My opinion or assumption is that we're not spending enough time on fundamentals. We're spending so much time on "scheme" that we've seen a massive regression in fundamental football, on that side of the ball.

 

[Irish Insanity]

IMO Kizer looked fine. Put the offense on his back and let's go.

This was the answer this year. And we chose not to do it

 

[theclassickiller]

Denbrock called the plays? I didn't know that. You have link of an article to confirm this?


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Sanford. I was drunk, my bad

Come on, they're both Mikes!

Kelly didn't have the playbook in his hands most of the game. Then we start scoring and, sure enough, he has the sheet.

 

[RDU Irish]

MSU d-line brought a ton of pressure with as few as three rushers. I don't know if we got better or they got tired but Calhoun and McDowell (I believe those two) were difference makers that our OL was not ready to handle. I suspect they lost effectiveness as the game wore on due to being tired as much as our adjustments because they seemed to be on the field for every down.

Our D-line is ridiculous. Jones, Cage, Rochelle and Tillery are four very good linemen that would play just about anywhere in the country. Probably 100 teams have less talent than them upfront. We should not need Lawrence Taylor working the edge to make good things happen up front yet here we are with zero sacks in three games.

I actually felt for BVG at the end of the game - they showed him hanging his head during the alma mater with his arm over Monty. Dude can't get gone fast enough but damn if actual people aren't involved. So easy for us to throw that around but cutting people loose with a kid on the team sucks on the emotional level.

I agree with others who say give Kizer the keys to the Ferrari and let him have fun. Nobody is going to fear our defense so we might as well make them fear our O. Throw on first down in the first half would be a start, as would testing the top before the end of the third quarter (not counting the halftime Hail Mary).

Claypool needs to see the field more for sure - kid epitomizes today's NFL monster WRs.

As awful as the game was - we were in it late. Accept our defensive ineptitude and go for it on 4th and 7 - nobody is going to question that move! Punt and fail to get a stop and you just pour gas on the defensive dumpster fire. Also, try the onside kick when they get hit with a penalty to bring kickoff to midfield!

As far as always taking the opening kickoff -WTF folks, has this ever worked for us? Forget for a minute that second half possessions are more valuable than first half, or our defense perpetually being abused as the game goes on... WE ALWAYS GO THREE AND OUT! I'm sure someone will correct me but this goes hand in hand with the slow offense - just taking the unconventional "receive" position does not make you an offensive juggernaut. Holy hell - do we ever start the game on fire with our foot on their neck offensively?

 

[stlnd01]

I would agree. We don't have a team of munchkins out there running around. These are fully capable P5 football players. I don't know what the reason is, but it is definitely a coaching issue.

My opinion or assumption is that we're not spending enough time on fundamentals. We're spending so much time on "scheme" that we've seen a massive regression in fundamental football, on that side of the ball.

Yep.
Also, you don't stop coaching fundamentals when they get to college. A lot of very good high school players are so much better than anyone on the field that they can get away with sloppy technique that they won't get away with in big-time college football.

 

[IrishBroker]

And Lamar Jackson is a damn beast. Freaking SOPH???!!

 

[irishandy]

My postgame thoughts:
1. Nice to see Durham Smythe get a TD catch. This team needs more TE involvement. He was open in the middle a couple of times in the 4th qtr. and he was missed.
2. 57 yards rushing is embarrassing and when they continued to rush the ball & up the middle is horrible play calling.
3. If ND would've realized sooner that MSU was going to make us pass the ball Kizer could've had over 500 yards passing.
******
I won't start questioning Kelly until after the season and if he doesn't get rid of BVG. The writing is on the wall BVG will be gone after this season if not sooner (I would do it at the buy week).
******
ND could've easily lost this game by more than 8 points, I'd rather lose by 8 points than 28 points.
*****
What pisses me off as a fan is to hear the opposing fans take over our stadium and do their cheers. After this team sang the alma mater I would've made this team stand out until the MSU fans quit chanting.
*****
I think we all need to go outside and take in a fresh breath of air.
*****
GO IRISH!!!

 

[NDohio]

Sanford. I was drunk, my bad

Come on, they're both Mikes!

Kelly didn't have the playbook in his hands most of the game. Then we start scoring and, sure enough, he has the sheet.

Do we really know who is calling plays this season? Furthermore, who is in charger of the offensive identity(or lack of)?

 

[koonja]

Imagine if we had injuries up front what this'd look like. Our front 7 and OL has actually been unscathed, spare Jay Hayes who missed the Texas game and Treadway, who really wouldn't have impact yet anyways.

If we had lost Rochelle versus Nevada do you know what Saturday would have looked like.

 

[kmoose]

I don't blame it all on BVG...but at some point "the buck stops here" applies.

Then I wasn't talking about you, so don't get all defensive about it.

 

[kmoose]

9.2 wins a season INCLUDING bowls is wayyyyyyyyy too low. 9.2 WITH bowls would be too low IMO.

We're 3-3 in bowls since Kelly arrived. It's not like he is padding his numbers with bowl wins.......

 

[IrishBroker]

Then I wasn't talking about you, so don't get all defensive about it.

I wasn't. I was adding to the conversation by explaining my personal position.

The reason for the blame on BVG is that, at some point, it does falls on him. People eventually get tired of yelling at athletes, and start to yell at coaches.

Sounds like you're the one who is getting defensive on here. You singled out that first line, and didn't bother to engage on the rest of the post?

 

[RDU Irish]

9.2 wins means we are averaging 4 losses. I don't think it is ridiculous to expect 4 or 5 losses for a bad season every once in a while, just shouldn't be the damn average!

IMO this should be an above average team for us talent wise and a below average schedule for a very good season. SHOULD being the operative word.

 

[IrishBroker]

9.2 wins means we are averaging 4 losses. I don't think it is ridiculous to expect 4 or 5 losses for a bad season every once in a while, just shouldn't be the damn average!

IMO this should be an above average team for us talent wise and a below average schedule for a very good season. SHOULD being the operative word.

Also, I'd like to see who else is in our company at 9.2 wins...