Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

SonofOahu

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1) You're speaking for nameless groups of people in America, a country not perfect but by far the most free and prosperous society the world has ever known.

2) Trump campaigned on MAGA because America was in a slump, especially economically. We now have an incredibly strong economy. Cuomo said this country never was great, and that sentiment has spread throughout the new left. It's disgusting.

3) If the social Democrats continue to be run by Ellison, Pelosi, Warren, Cortes and the like, 2020 won't be close. GDP growth well above 3% and 4%, low unemployment, record breaking stock market, record low unemployment for minorities, home ownership rising, etc.

Only thing Dems will be able to run on is free college and transgender bathrooms. Oh, and abolishing ICE haha.

Stop, just stop. We were already recovering, economically, under Obama. The economy is currently strong in the short-term. Long term outlook, not so much. His economics team is pushing very stupid plans, some of which (supply side, especially) have been proven completely ineffective at establishing long-term growth.

Trump's trade policies are straight-up asinine. Why? Because he doesn't know what he's talking about, and he on-boarded stupid people to advise him. The fundamentals of his approach to trade are ass-backwards.

IMO, there have been two points in time that America can be called "great":
  1. WWII and the post-WWII recovery
  2. The dot-com era

Other than that, how have we defined greatness?
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Stop, just stop. We were already recovering, economically, under Obama. The economy is currently strong in the short-term. Long term outlook, not so much. His economics team is pushing very stupid plans, some of which (supply side, especially) have been proven completely ineffective at establishing long-term growth.

Trump's trade policies are straight-up asinine. Why? Because he doesn't know what he's talking about, and he on-boarded stupid people to advise him. The fundamentals of his approach to trade are ass-backwards.

IMO, there have been two points in time that America can be called "great":
  1. WWII and the post-WWII recovery
  2. The dot-com era

Other than that, how have we defined greatness?

Stop what? For 8 years we never saw GDP above 3% under Obama. We saw tax, spend, regulate. I'm not a fan of Trump's tariffs, but no one can ignore the GDP growth, unemployment numbers, and everything else on the rise that should be.
 

Legacy

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Stop what? For 8 years we never saw GDP above 3% under Obama. We saw tax, spend, regulate. I'm not a fan of Trump's tariffs, but no one can ignore the GDP growth, unemployment numbers, and everything else on the rise that should be.

Crushing it for whom, Mr. Kudlow? (Gazette Opinion)
By Jared Bernstein and Ro Khanna

Last week, a top White House economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, argued that the U.S. economy is “crushing it,” posting boom-like numbers in key areas, all thanks to President Donald Trump’s leadership.

Evaluating such claims usually begins with assessing whether the president should get credit for an economy he inherited in year eight of a solid expansion. But the fact that Trump is claiming credit for trends that were largely ongoing before he took office is one of the few ways in which he’s not much different from former presidents.

Instead, we’d like to drill down on the evidence for this “crushing it” claim. Who’s actually getting ahead in the Trump economy?

To telegraph our punchline, while the tight labor market is highly welcomed, real hourly pay for most workers remains flat. In contrast, corporate profits and equity markets truly are crushing it, both on a pre-tax and — especially, given the large business tax cuts — a post-tax basis.

There’s also no evidence of an investment boom, suggesting the recent, above-trend growth in GDP is Keynes, not Laffer — meaning the deficit spending is providing a temporary boost but will not have lasting, positive impacts for long-term economic growth.

Starting with wages, since Trump took office, the real hourly wage for the 82 percent of the workforce that’s blue collar in factories and non-managers in services is up half-a-percent, an extra 11 cents per hour. In nominal terms — before accounting for inflation — the growth of mid-level pay has picked up a bit, as we’d expect with such low unemployment. But inflation, largely driven by higher energy costs, has also sped up, cancelling out any real gains.

If energy prices come down and unemployment continues to fall, real wage growth for mid-wage workers will improve. But the magnitude of their gains will likely be nothing close to the administration’s claim that the tax cut would add at least $4,000 to annual earnings within a few years of the legislation.

Remember, its promise was for $4,000 above whatever baseline gains in wages would be expected without the tax cut. In President Barack Obama’s second term, real annual wage growth for mid-wage workers was about 1 percent, so call that the baseline. Meeting the administration’s goal requires another 2 percent real growth on top of that, or 3 percent per year. They are not even in the ballpark to achieve that.

Sticking with the tax cut, its proponents’ main claim was that the big corporate cuts would generate more business investment, which would lead to faster productivity growth, which would position us for higher paying jobs. So far, every link in that chain is broken.

Business investment is growing, as we’d expect in an economy operating close to full capacity. But its growth rate is not faster now than at various points earlier in the expansion. There’s been a modest uptick in investment in structures (such as plants, offices, wells, mine shafts, warehouses) in the first half of 2018, but, as economist Dean Baker has shown, the growth in such investment was due to higher energy prices generating increased investment in mining for oil and natural gas.

While mining investment has increased by 36.7 percent over the last year, it rose by 47.3 percent from the second quarter of 2009 to the second quarter of 2010, when the Obama administration was still enforcing environmental laws. In both cases, the key factor was rising world oil prices.

It takes time to plan investments, so it’s too soon to conclude the tax cuts haven’t made a difference. But none of the surveys of companies’ investment plans show any plans to ratchet up capital spending, including the Commerce Department’s monthly data on orders for capital equipment, the National Federation of Independent Businesses’ survey on plans for capital expenditures, and investment surveys by regional Federal Reserve Banks.

What is clear is that firms are using their tax windfalls to boost share prices through buybacks, which, along with strong corporate profits, are fueling a historical bull market for stocks. But equity markets are decidedly not a source of trickle-down: 80 percent of the value of the stock market is held by the wealthiest 10 percent of households. The bottom half own no stock at all, including retirement plans.

In other words, it’s clear who’s crushing it and who isn’t. What is sad is that instead of borrowing $2 trillion to finance the regressive tax cut, Congress could have put more money in the pockets of working Americans and made investments for our economic future. Here is what we should have done — and should still do — to crush it for all Americans.


First, we should have expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit to compensate for decades of stagnant wage growth. The Brown-Khanna plan, calling for a $1.4 trillion EITC expansion, would have provided working families making up to $75,000 with up to $8,000 more in take home pay. As we often say, the best way to raise pay for ordinary Americans is to do so directly as opposed to pretending it will come through the largess of executives and shareholders.

Second, we should have put billions to expand the National Science Foundation’s Advanced Technological Education program, linking employers to technical schools to develop credentials that respond to the needs of our cutting-edge industries. This is one of the most successful programs in the federal government, and we could have made sure that every American, whether rural or urban, would have access to credentialing for the jobs of the future. This program could be the land grant of the 21st century.

Third, we should have provided hiring incentives for anchor companies to create jobs in places left behind such as Paintsville, Kentucky, or Flint, Michigan. If a company is willing to hire in places where people don’t have enough access to high-wage jobs, then they should get support for doing so.

Fourth, we should have invested in bringing high speed internet to every corner of America. Providing fiber broadband to every corner of the United States is the modern equivalent of rural electrification. Ask the mayors of places like Huntington, West Virginia, or Akron, Ohio, what would help them grow business in their cities. They will undoubtedly ask for investments in broadband instead of tax cuts for the wealthy.

Larry Kudlow’s right: The Trump administration is crushing it for its donor base, which is in turn handsomely rewarding them. But it has done nothing for the forgotten Americans and nothing to make sure America is a winner in the 21st century.

We don’t need more sugar highs for those already doing well. We need to give lasting pay raises to those struggling to pay the bills and then focus on the forward-looking investments that will finally reconnect GDP growth to broadly shared prosperity.
Jared Bernstein, a former chief economist to Vice President Joe Biden, is a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and author of “The Reconnection Agenda: Reuniting Growth and Prosperity.” Ro Khanna, a Democrat, represents the 17th district of California in the U.S. House.

MW-GM895_GDPC1_20180720143754_OR.png
(Source: Commerce Dept)
 
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Polish Leppy 22

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Crushing it for whom, Mr. Kudlow? (Gazette Opinion)
By Jared Bernstein and Ro Khanna


Jared Bernstein, a former chief economist to Vice President Joe Biden, is a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and author of “The Reconnection Agenda: Reuniting Growth and Prosperity.” Ro Khanna, a Democrat, represents the 17th district of California in the U.S. House.

MW-GM895_GDPC1_20180720143754_OR.png
(Source: Commerce Dept)

There's an argument to be made for stagnant wages, but that really depends on industry and the market. I would say record breaking stock market numbers show increase in investments.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Kevin Gallagher just published an article in American Affairs titled "The Eclipse of Catholic Fusionism":

The argument that America is at risk of theocratic domination has always been hyperbole—a rallying cry rather than an analysis of our political situation. Even as the nomination of a Supreme Court justice stirs up liberal fantasies of The Handmaid’s Tale, the threat of a genuine “theocracy” seems rather far off. But there was a time when the fear of “theocracy” resonated more broadly because it captured, at least partially, something real in American politics. At the height of the Bush administration in 2006, Damon Linker’s The Theocons: Secular America under Siege found an audience among those ready to be spooked by the thought of an impending sacred dystopia (as well as a few on the right, upset at Linker’s perceived inaccuracies). The most curious thing about the theocracy scare of 2006, though, was not that theocracy loomed on the horizon for worried liberals or for Linker himself (a former First Things editor familiar with the intellectual currents of religious conservatism). What was impressive was that—in spite of their tussling over terms—plenty of the people he had set out to criticize believed, in a certain way, that Linker was right.

For Christian conservatives and especially for Catholics, the later Bush years were a heady time. At least since the 1980s, Father Richard John Neuhaus and the rest of the First Things circle had been speaking of a “Catholic moment,” and in the late 1990s Crisis magazine began planning for it. Thanks not least to Karl Rove’s enterprising effort to capture the Catholic vote, such a moment seemed to be at hand. What the “Catholic moment” was supposed to mean, though, was a rather strange thing; and with a decade’s distance, it looks like little more than wishful thinking. But for young Catholics interested in politics, particularly those within the world of campus organizations or D.C. think tanks, the facts seemed auspicious.

Even though conservatives still complained about “judicial activism” and Roe v. Wade, for Bush-era Catholic intellectuals, the tide seemed to be turning. They were confident that “pelvic orthodoxy,” combined with market-oriented but “compassionate” economic policy, would secure a Republican future. A faith in the “ordinary” citizen prompted hope for referenda on gay marriage; opinion polls seemed to suggest a larger public rethinking of abortion; and the Bush-era “faith-based initiatives” promised a model in which church, state, and private enterprise might cooperate harmoniously for the good of all. With sectarian squabbles muted, Catholics and Evangelicals would have the ideas and the votes to effect lasting political change. Catholics told themselves, and believed, that they were no longer a reactionary rearguard, but were on the cusp of triumph. A Catholic-inspired conservative politics appeared to have momentum and, more than that, it deserved to have momentum. These trends were not just happy turns of fate; they were signs that the political philosophy cobbled together by Catholics and conservatives was correct and illuminating and destined to win. The leaders of this movement may not have been the “Theocons” of Linker’s title, but they fancied themselves essential contributors to the intellectual project of holding together the American regime in a way that might preserve Catholics and the Church from the threats of secular liberalism. And it was no downside that in the process they might come to hold crucial positions of state.

These “Theocons” were devoted conservative fusionists. Even before the “Catholic moment” arrived, fusionism had been the name given to the conservative political movement attempting to combine social conservatism and free-market capitalism (though the term was initially one of criticism). In the eyes of Catholic fusionists, their views were simply the correct application of Catholic principles to contemporary problems: the Church was to stand on the side of political and economic liberty against communism, and on the side of social and moral order against the sexual revolution. The Catholic fusionists drank so deeply of this system that eventually they forgot what the first fusionists knew well: that a traditional approach to social questions sits uneasily alongside a capitalism in which “all that is solid melts into air.” But fusionism is a fitting name since the fundamental premise of the Catholic fusionist approach—rarely articulated, but always present—was that the principles of American conservatism and those of Catholic social teaching might be seamlessly and unproblematically combined.

The Catholic fusionists in fact took this position one step further. Not merely did they assert a possible symbiosis between the traditions of American liberty and the traditions of the Church, but they came to see the midcentury American political settlement as the very embodiment of Catholic social teaching. There was only one thing lacking, they thought, in the American social and political order—modern Americans had lost the Founders’ sense of the natural law principles that could hold the Republic together, principles that the Catholic tradition was ready to supply. Implausible and unnecessary as this might seem to those looking on at Catholic intellectual developments from the outside, it is hard to overstate the power that this image exerted on the “American Church” from the nineteenth century onward. Public doubt over whether Catholics could be good American citizens somehow combined, alongside the spectacular growth of the Catholic Church in this country, to produce an intense Catholic patriotism which equated chipper American liberalism with Catholic teaching itself.

Although the Catholic ambition to supply America’s “missing public philosophy” was dashed upon the rocks of the 1960s, many intellectual Catholics never updated their hypotheses. Instead, they pleaded with an uninterested American public to reverse the handful of decisions that marred the otherwise still-living American capitalist dream. They doubled down on the thesis that the Church could supply the missing “public philosophy” to the otherwise well-constituted American republic. That effort is now a shambles. And in the course of it, American Catholics missed an opportunity to understand the political problems now facing everyone.

Marriage of Convenience

When the Catholic fusionists were riding high during the Bush years, it was hardly necessary that they should offer an explicit defense of themselves. But by 2012, in the wake of President Obama’s reelection, and amid a series of defeats for the Republican Party across the country, the fusionist coalition was in trouble. Christians accused conservatives of neglecting “values” in favor of a business-oriented agenda; meanwhile “mainstream conservatives” accused Christians of weighing down a common-sense economic platform with backward religious superstitions.

It was in this context that Robert George of Princeton, a foremost fusionist, felt the need to write an article for First Things “On the Union of Economic and Social Conservatism,” under the title “No Mere Marriage of Convenience.” It was the kind of title that protested too much, and the argument laid out under it was a characteristically thin one. A few broad principles with no way of adjudicating among them—“respect for the human person,” “the institution of the family,” “a fair and effective system of law and government”—and a canned explanation of how minimal economic regulations unleash “dynamism” from which the whole society benefits. One would read it in vain looking for a real political philosophy. Yet there it was: the supposed core of American Catholic political thought had cashed out in the platform of fin de siècle Republicanism. The heart of the essay was in George’s plea: both sides need to knock it off. Two collections of interest groups and, more importantly, two donor bases were coming into conflict, and George’s task was to herd everyone back into line.

It was perhaps not unreasonable that Robert George thought he could succeed. The “marriage” proposed by George was the parallel, in political thought, of a settlement that had long been stable among American Catholics. At least since the Kennedy years, most Catholics in America had come to accept their religious and national identities as seamlessly overlapping, almost synonymous. Apart from a few oddballs and immigrants and superannuated hippies, Catholics had come to find it perfectly unremarkable to see American flags displayed in their sanctuaries and American holidays commemorated in their churches; the Church had become part of the furniture of normal American life.

But by the same token, the Church’s “eccentricities” had also been smoothed out, and normalized as well. The patron saints of this American Catholicism were Ronald Reagan and John Paul II (often acclaimed as the coequal defeaters of Soviet Communism) but the vision of Catholic conservatives was more than a hangover of the Cold War. Even if the intellectual details always remained a bit fuzzy, the general sense was unmistakable: that a common humane vision should unite conservatives and Catholics, and that the American Constitution and the broad outline of American history were not only acceptable to Catholics, but flowed from many of the same sources as the Church’s political thought.

But there were elements of that political tradition that this vision had to exclude. One could hardly grasp the American Church’s long-standing skepticism of free-market economics by reading the texts of Catholic fusionists. A vast number of books, homilies, and publications of bishops and popes demonstrates the Church’s deep interest in the “social question,” strong support for labor unions, and doubts (however awkwardly or ambiguously expressed) about the capitalist system. But when the fusionists did not simply ignore these, they tended to dismiss them as magisterial obiter dicta, quite without authority for the Catholic faithful. It is, of course, no surprise that the Catholic fusionists were eager to represent their views as rooted in perennial Catholic teachings. No Catholic likes imagining that he’s adulterating the faith with an alien or opposed school of thought. But this effort required more than a little finessing. For the most part, and despite the academic credentials that they often bore and bruited about, the proponents of this fusionism frequently betrayed rather shallow roots in the tradition they claimed to represent. In many cases, the role played by the Catholic side of the “marriage of convenience” was little more than a veneer: the Acton Institute might put a Christian gloss on Hayek, and First Things might cover typical neoconservatism with a sort of evangelical fig leaf, but the core ideas and proposals were self-subsistent, external to, and usually hostile to Catholicism itself. It was a tale of unrequited love: Catholic intellectuals eagerly offered their support to the traditions of American liberalism, but for the most part they were only preaching to their own choir, and one that was far from typical even within the Church itself.

The Preferential Option for Americanism

To non-Catholics, fusionist conservatism is often equated with religious “traditionalism.” But “traditionalism,” among Catholics, is a loaded word. Fairly or not, it conjures up the specter of those who reject the authority of recent popes or the legitimacy of Vatican II, of impractical types for whom faith consists of an obsessive ritualism and politics, a quixotic monarchism. In this sense, the fusionists were certainly not “traditionalists.” But there is another, more damning sense in which they were intellectually out of joint with the Catholic tradition. Robert George, for instance, no doubt sincerely believes the Church’s teachings on matters such as abortion and euthanasia. Yet he does not hesitate to begin his arguments from Enlightenment first principles that St. Thomas would neither have recognized nor endorsed. The fusionists’ citations of popes and other Catholic authorities were copious and reverent, but they were carefully selected to convey an idea of Catholicism at ease with the Enlightenment’s rights of man and with the broadly liberal tradition of political thought. Now sacred kingship, suspicion of commerce, and press censorship are hardly the essence of the Catholic faith, but there was no sense that such ideas had been part of the political worldview of popes and theologians for centuries in fusionists’ writings.

More important than theological precision, more important than fidelity to the tradition, was the expediency of providing ideas for contemporary, exclusively U.S.-focused political debates. Any ideas that might be embarrassing for the fusionists’ tactical allies were quietly suppressed. Where political alliance could be assumed, religious agreement was secondary. Unlike mainstream liberals, Catholic fusionists might never admit openly that faith should be primarily an internal matter, or that belief is irrelevant compared to political action, but they shared with the liberals a latitudinarian approach to doctrine, so long as one was fighting on the right side. Yet this always made them appear strange—and rather careerist—both to liberals and to non-Catholic conservatives. Everyone knew their political views, particularly on social and moral matters, were primarily ones taken (as is reasonable for Catholics) from the catechism. But the fusionists’ scheme obliged them to defend these views by reference to “public reason” alone and the procedural norms of liberal democracy. These Catholics, it seemed, had a greater faith in the naked public square than their secular opponents. By a singular act of asceticism, they avoided saying what they were already known to believe, but lacking the craftiness of their Jesuit forebears, they were unable to persuade their opponents of their secular bona fides. No mainstream proponents of public reason (for example, Rawlsians) accepted the “secular” arguments made by the fusionist natural lawyers on questions like abortion and gay marriage. They saw what the fusionists themselves did not: the inevitable gap between their procedurally liberal arguments and substantively preliberal conclusions. But sometimes the gaps between “classical liberal” thought and Catholic teaching could not be papered over—even by the fusionists themselves. When, in 2009, Pope Benedict’s encyclical letter Caritas in veritate took an explicitly dim view of capitalism and the market society, the fusionists were caught wrong-footed. Their panic reached a comical peak in George Weigel’s essay for National Review asserting that parts of the magisterial text had been written with a “red pen,” inserted into the pope’s true teaching by curial socialists, and might safely be ignored by the (American) faithful. In retrospect, such visible seams between the Catholic and conservative parts of the alliance suggested its ultimate failure. Worse, these fault lines revealed that the Catholic parts of the alliance were all too willing to be captured by the GOP, and that they, no less than the left-wing “cafeteria Catholics” they so often criticized, were happy to jettison aspects of authoritative teaching their political allies found inconvenient.

Despite such occasional moments of dissonance, there was no reason on the right, in the late Bush or early Obama years, to fear that the fusionist settlement might not remain in place. While there were those who protested against it, the think tanks, journals, and almost all the organs of Catholic political opinion were the property of fusionists and their donors. The objections of a few marginal traditionalists or untenured assistant professors were no threat to this alliance.

A Time to Keep Silence, and a Time to Speak

What eroded the credibility of the fusionists was nothing but their own failure—and one cannot say that their efforts have been met with anything other than that. On every issue that matters, the fusionists did nothing to increase the influence of Catholic ideas among Republicans—much less the country at large—but they also failed to hold the line, even on long-established political norms. And perhaps no failure was more dramatic, more revealing of the intellectual fatuity of this movement, and more important in stimulating young Catholics to look for new ideas, than the inability of the fusionist equipage to offer any effective response to the movements of late liberalism, which became glaringly apparent after the Windsor and Obergefell decisions.

Apart from a few professionally heterodox commentators, the Catholic punditry attempted with great diligence and coordination to oppose the legalization of gay marriage—producing any number of arguments, less to explicate the perennial teaching of the Church on this matter than to appeal to Justice Kennedy’s whims. Perhaps no effort was more deliberate, or greeted with more fanfare, than the extended essay What Is Marriage?, team-written by a committee of Witherspoon Institute and First Things worthies. But even this grand project went, as it had to go—nowhere. No proponents of the change in marriage law even took it seriously as a challenge.

As a matter of political influence, the essay may as well never have existed. Yet it is preeminently useful as a window into the fusionist mind of only a few years ago. Written, promoted, and (one suspects) only ever read by Catholics, it nevertheless painfully avoided basing its argument on the Catholic sources or argumentative tropes that everyone knew actually inspired it. It discussed sex and marriage as if the centuries of Catholic meditation on these questions had not existed.

For myself, and other young Catholics like me, this was a moment of awakening: I had believed in the “Catholic moment,” and had expected the defenders of Catholic truth to march under a Catholic banner. Through the Catholic social scene, I was not too far removed from some of the authors of What Is Marriage? Any objections voiced to this approach were met with a furious remonstrance, which challenged the philosophical credentials of the dissenter, but more importantly insinuated disloyalty to the cause. The humble defenders in neutral public debate suddenly became furious enforcers of sectarian unity: did we want our enemies to win? Could we not see that certain intellectual compromises were necessary to defend just causes within our liberal-democratic society?

I was not satisfied with these rebukes, but at the time I myself had no response. Maybe theirs was indeed the way in which the libertas ecclesiae (if they could admit so anachronistic a term) was to be preserved. One had to wait and see. But after the decisions in which the fusionist strategies failed not only to persuade, but even to provoke a serious reply, the idea that “Catholic” politics provided the secret rationale for the procedural norms of liberalism and justified loose ideological alliances was no longer plausible. In exchange for their first birthright, these Catholic “thought-leaders” received not even the pottage of a temporary stay on the questions most important to them.

Worse still, and with a biting irony, fusionist Catholics have been absent without leave on an array of policy questions that actually do reside within the secular public square. While the Catholic tendency to place morality ahead of politics often leads to impressive results—Catholics stood alongside the civil rights movement from an early day—it can badly misfire as well. Following the neoliberal writer Michael Novak and his book The Spirit of Democratic Capitalism (1982), fusionist Catholics emphasize what they portray as the good theological assumptions of liberal capitalism and forgo close analyses of current questions in economic policy. The watchword of freedom is enough to corral them back to the Republican platform and prevent any significant attempts to rethink elements of contemporary political economy. The absence of fusionist Catholics from arguments about political economy is particularly ironic given that this was the area in which the Church of an earlier period, particularly the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, thought it could offer comment on liberalism, capitalism, and socialism that would be of interest to Catholics and non-Catholics alike. Yet the very Catholics who today proclaim their official neutrality have little or nothing to say about the problems of political economy that have weakened the fabric of Western liberal democracy.

Unfortunately, the complete reversal from their influential position during the late Bush years does not appear to have dealt much of a blow to the network of broadly “conservative” Catholic think tanks, conferences, and periodicals. Nor does it seem to have done much to dry up the donor monies that keep this network on life support. But in the alliance of conservatives and Catholics, the Catholics no longer hold the reins. The thought leaders have apparently still been thinking, and are certainly still writing, but as the conservative political world came under the influence of the Tea Party, and eventually of the Trump movement, these Catholic energies and activities became ever more extraneous to it. Apart from occasional, marginal, and largely unserious spectacles like Paul Ryan’s invocation of Thomas Aquinas in defense of his fiscal proposals, the dream of a “Catholic moment,” in which the faith might be a major political influence, has quite evaporated. And yet all through Obama’s presidency, these wheels continued to turn—the Catholic network of donors, pundits, and minor political philosophers had become almost self-sustaining, and carried on.

Slouching toward Irrelevance

It is tempting, and perhaps also somewhat satisfying, to blame Catholic parties to the fusionist alliance for their failure to shape American politics. Nor would it be unfair. But if they have lost credibility among those younger Catholics who are attempting to puzzle through political questions, the main cause is a cultural shift that the elder pundits barely foresaw, and could not have prevented. The hoped-for “Catholic moment” at least presumed a culture in which the Church and ordinary American life might be easily combined, and in which the Church’s greatest moments of tension with American life could be understood as a kind of “loyal opposition.” At least for a couple of generations in the middle of the twentieth century, this is the role the Church played. And although becoming part of the establishment incurs certain costs, there is no doubt that this gave the Church a degree of cultural prestige and influence that nudged politics in a more Catholic direction.

The Church has now completely lost this role. Although it continues to do charitable works on an immense scale and its bishops are never reticent on political questions, Catholics today, and especially young Catholics, live in a heightened tension with the world around them. In media, at law, in HR trainings, in advertisements, Catholic distance from mainstream culture is growing in a way that makes fusionist attempts merely to supplement American culture unrealistic. Young Catholics now live in a context in which their deepest ideals and aspirations are no longer merely unusual, but oppositional. These signs were there to be seen well before the Obama years, and opponents of the fusionist synthesis pointed them out from the 1960s onward. But events have made them unmistakably clear in a way the younger generation of Catholics is unlikely to forget. Though one periodically hears talk of a “rediscovery of the sacred” parallel to the new nationalisms, the dream of an Americanist “Catholic moment” is not coming back.

The most common response to the patent incongruity of Catholicism and the modern world is for Catholics to leave the Church. “Ex-Catholic” is the second-largest Christian denomination in the United States; Catholic institutions everywhere are losing momentum and support, even as they water down their Catholic character; and it is clear the vestigial obedience and participation of “cultural” or “ethnic” Catholics is not being transmitted to their children. Catholics may welcome certain legal victories defending the Church, or may appreciate expressions of Christian identity from the Trump administration, but as a demographic matter the decline of the Church appears unstoppable. Catholics who remain in the Church certainly cannot blame fusionists themselves for this situation. But they also cannot follow the thought leaders who spent the last thirty years planning for a fusion that neither side actually desires. More and more, fusion looks like a one-sided accommodation to liberal norms that few other than fusionists still embrace.

Toward Postliberal Political Theology

Among young Catholics especially there is a growing desire for a religion that is assertive and distinctive: a religion, perhaps, that is not afraid to be extreme. One sees this in the resurgent popularity of classical forms of music and ritual, in the return to the writings of premodern and medieval theologians and of antimodern popes, and in a growing sense that the late twentieth-century trend of “aggiornamento” in the Church may have been ill-conceived, or at least badly executed.

In this environment, the fusionists’ insistence on the compatibility of Catholicism and the American political tradition not only rings false, but also describes an ideal that few desire. Among Catholics who think seriously about politics, particularly those who do not depend on conservative organizations for a paycheck, the failure of fusionists to secure political victories, and the tenuous link between their positions and traditional Catholic thought, have created an appetite for a new approach. If the effort to synthesize Catholicism and “classical liberalism” has failed, why dismiss the nonliberal elements within the Catholic tradition? If the “Catholic moment,” in which to be American and to be Catholic might seem to be a single identity, was an anomalous and now-concluded period, a Catholic has no reason to take it as a norm.

What is more, Catholics and the politically active young of other faiths have every reason to explore the “nonliberal” elements of their religious traditions—the elements that presumed and emphasized the common goods that everyone now senses are so thoroughly lacking. It is not only Catholics who in these latter days are eager to look beyond the historical horizons offered by liberalism. Liberalism today is beset from all sides by competing ideologies. Faced with new or resurgent nationalisms in the United States and in Europe, an increasingly assertive socialism, and the grand and antipolitical visions brewed in Silicon Valley, Catholics and non-Catholics alike can more confidently conclude that American constitutionalism or “classical liberalism” will have to look outside itself for answers. No doubt a satisfying contrarianism is part of the appeal of rejecting the last generation’s consensus, but the depth and sophistication of the Catholic political tradition provides the material for much more than “hot takes.”

When the 2014 Hobby Lobby decision supporting the right of employers to withhold contraception from their employee’s health plans was being celebrated by the fusionists as a triumph for religious freedom, the Catholic political philosopher Patrick Deneen drew much criticism for objecting to an order in which such a question of morals depended on the whim of a Christian CEO. Views such as Deneen’s, already gaining momentum at that time, are ever more common among Catholic thinkers. The practical failures of the fusionists have created an opening for a rising tide of books and publications challenging the Catholic conservative consensus. Those who would have looked to National Review or First Things to learn how to think about politics are now devouring Catholic criticisms of market ideology, accounts of preliberal ways of conceptualizing the common good, or the provocative essays on modern liberalism at The Josias. Perhaps more surprisingly, they are eager to look at criticism of contemporary political economy originating from well outside the usual sources of Catholic thinking.

A new political vocabulary is emerging, too, with new watchwords—“integralism,” “dyarchy,” and other ways of specifying the common good—of which one can find no precedent, or even in many cases awareness, in the fusionist writings of a decade ago. Thus the decline of fusionist Catholicism has cleared space for the revival of ideas the fusionists sought actively to suppress. Instead of William F. Buckley and Richard John Neuhaus, young Catholics are reading Brent Bozell, William Marshner, and others who propose a discourse explaining why liberalism cannot resolve the crisis of politics that it engineered. When these and other critics of Catholic fusionism leveled their charges in the 1960s and ’70s, conservative pundits and publishers at best neglected to dignify these critics with answers. And donors have had little interest in providing a platform for their radical and often market-skeptical theories. Yet they remain as a model to a new generation of Catholic thinkers—never refuted, and offering the possibility of a road not taken.

On its own terms, a Catholicism more critical of the mainstream of American thought would have little to recommend it to outsiders. Neither Republicans nor Democrats nor libertarians have any real appetite for neoscholastic treatises on political order; there is no base of donors or network of think tanks eager to promote the careers of young “integralist” scholars or assure them of an audience for their writings. But in the wake of the practical failure of the Catholic fusionists, of the closure of the “Catholic moment,” of the arrival in many places of a secular right-wing politics not beholden to Christian sources, now is the time for Catholics to avail themselves of all the sources needed to understand the current crisis—and even, if the possibility emerges, to make a positive contribution to rebuilding from political liberalism’s steady decline.

Across the political spectrum, electoral dislocations and popular discontent have persuaded many that the liberal intellectual consensus of the last century is crumbling and unhelpful; what will succeed it is nowhere yet clear. But the resurgent discourse of identity suggests that the era of the naked public square is over, and political arguments made with baggage attached—representing a particular tradition, nation, or tribe—may now be admitted to the bar. For Catholics, this is an invitation to boldness, to parrhesia: there is no point in watering down traditional teachings to comply with the norms of a decaying liberal discourse. And for non-Catholics, it offers the possibility of new political alignments, based not on a false equation of Catholicism with any other school of thought, but on the identification of genuinely shared goals. As Catholics become less diffident about the politics their religious commitments imply, they can be more selective in their alliances, seeking allies that not merely pay the Church occasional lip service, but genuinely engage with her ideas. Catholics, of course, hold these ideas to be true. But even nonbelievers may have reason to welcome a more intellectually assertive Catholic politics. In this ideologically unstable era, the tradition of the Church offers an alternative to moribund liberal modes of political thought, an alternative that may avoid many of the errors and illusions that confound contemporary society. As that ideology loses its grip, as liberalism loses credibility, there is less profit than ever in a scheme of fusionist accommodation. To participate in this no-longer-neutral public square, the Catholic tradition must be prepared to speak in its own voice.
 

SonofOahu

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Stop what? For 8 years we never saw GDP above 3% under Obama. We saw tax, spend, regulate. I'm not a fan of Trump's tariffs, but no one can ignore the GDP growth, unemployment numbers, and everything else on the rise that should be.

I don't know what you do/did for a living, but you're too dependent on Fox News for your business analysis. Let's discuss a few points:

Your previous assertion that GDP will remain at 4% is fantasy. It's not going to stay up at 4%, what you saw was a response to the start of trade war. People were forward buying. Get ready for reality to set in, in one to two Qs.

Unemployment has come back down to "full employment" based on our service industries. The problem is, we're hitting bubble territory, really quickly. The eggs are all in the tax-cut basket. The monies that were given to regular Americans are not going far as prices go up (due to the trade war). Also, without rising wages, consumer confidence will do down. With the rising cost of goods most people are already net negative. I guess we'll see the true-story come tax time.

Someone made mention of the stock market being up. Yes, but the stock market is up based on a large part because of lower expenses (tax cuts), special dividends, and stock buy backs. It has nothing to do with the fundamentals of the businesses themselves. Trumps tax cuts were heavily aimed at businesses because he needed them to stimulate money flow and inflate the markets.

What happens when a company buys its stock back? Investors are happy because they get paid, but they also lose a portion of their ownership. Non-investors get interested in purchasing shares, because the company seems to have cash to give. As a result, the stock price can go up, but in reality, nothing has changed for the business operations.

What happens when a company raises its dividend or issues a special dividend? Investors are happy because they get paid. The stock price goes lower, but because the company is signalling an abundance of cash, non-investors get interested... same as above. Nothing has changed for the business operations.

What should a company do when it has a horde of cash? It should be investing in its infrastructure. Build factories, buy stuff, increase its technological capabilities, etc. Are they doing that? Not really. These "plant openings" that trump attributes to his tax cuts have been multiple-years in the making. It would be incredibly financially irresponsible (and also impossible) to make a large decision like that so quickly.

If you're happy about Trump's economic "policies" then I have to question your understanding of economics. You are all falling for a short-term con. The real kicker is Trump calling for the SEC to stop quarterly calls. I agree that short-term outlooks make for bad business-decisions, but Trump's real desire there is to artificially decrease market volatility. He needs you all to continue to fall for his bullshit.

Where are we because of Trump? We're in a trade war, we have no partnerships, and we're trying to fight battles that have already been lost (the use of technology rather than human-labor to increase labor efficiency; the outsourcing of labor to control costs.) So we're going it alone, absorbing higher labor costs, working less efficiently, oh, and we're also starting trade wars. Fucking brilliant.
 

Bluto

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Which groups?

Depends on the time frame and context. Some would include the Irish, Native Americans , African Americans, The Californians who were dispossessed of their land holdings after and in violation of the treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo, much of the working class during the Industrial Age until the run up to WW2, homesteaders in the Midwest during the dust bowl and the depression. US history is riddled with racial conflict, violence and class warfare. Even during the “happy days” of the 50’s much of the country was an apartheid state in law and most of the the rest in practice. If you are interested I could point you to some first person accounts and or histories of various time periods. I was cleaning out some stuff and came across a bunch of notebooks and readers from my history classes I took while persuing a minor in said subject.
 
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Bluto

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Did you take my quote of a week ago as something like the bolded??

No. I was more addressing Leppy. I believe you to be a pretty even keeled guy. More so than myself that’s for sure. Lol.
 
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Legacy

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There's an argument to be made for stagnant wages, but that really depends on industry and the market. I would say record breaking stock market numbers show increase in investments.

I would think that stock buybacks and increasing dividend to stockholders increases companies' profitability while capital investments might decrease those and make those companies less attractive to investors, in general. A small handful of stocks have accounted for half the S&P gains this year. Without four top stocks, the S&P has returned 3% with industrials declining 2% since the start of the year to mid-year. On Feb 2, the DJIA was at 25,520 and is currently at 25,790. The S&P Index was 2,872 on 1/29 and is 2,874 currently.

The overall point is that most Americans are not in the stock market, so wage growth or stagnation is a big factor as well as any negative impacts from trade. Apple, for instance, spent $100 billion in stock buybacks and their recent sales growth is in Asia.
 
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SonofOahu

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I would think that stock buybacks and increasing dividend to stockholders increases companies' profitability while capital investments might decrease those and make those companies less attractive to investors, in general. A small handful of stocks have accounted for half the S&P gains this year. Without four top stocks, the S&P has returned 3% with industrials declining 2% since the start of the year to mid-year. On Feb 2, the DJIA was at 25,520 and is currently at 25,790.

The overall point is that most Americans are not in the stock market, so wage growth or stagnation is a big factor as well as any negative impacts from trade. Apple, for instance, spent $100 billion in stock buybacks and their recent sales growth is in Asia.

Funny, I said some similar stuff in my long-winded post.
 

Legacy

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Funny, I said some similar stuff in my long-winded post.

Tried to rep you, but excellent post and worthy of Reps. Mine was more of an addendum. Imagine if Trump and Congress abandoned deficit spending, committed to a more balanced budget, and targeted the middle class with the tax cuts.
 

SonofOahu

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Tried to rep you, but excellent post and worthy of Reps. Mine was more of an addendum. Imagine if Trump and Congress abandoned deficit spending, committed to a more balanced budget, and targeted the middle class with the tax cuts.

They'd be actual Republicans as opposed to robber-barons.
 

MJ12666

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I would think that stock buybacks and increasing dividend to stockholders increases companies' profitability while capital investments might decrease those and make those companies less attractive to investors, in general. A small handful of stocks have accounted for half the S&P gains this year. Without four top stocks, the S&P has returned 3% with industrials declining 2% since the start of the year to mid-year. On Feb 2, the DJIA was at 25,520 and is currently at 25,790. The S&P Index was 2,872 on 1/29 and is 2,874 currently.

The overall point is that most Americans are not in the stock market, so wage growth or stagnation is a big factor as well as any negative impacts from trade. Apple, for instance, spent $100 billion in stock buybacks and their recent sales growth is in Asia.

I don't believe that this is accurate in that the data used to calculate the percentage of Americans who own stocks does not take into account individuals who are enrolled in defined benefit pension plans. For example, according to a December 2017 Washington Post article (see below) approximately 49% of Americans either directly or indirectly own stocks. The definition of indirect ownership per the article includes those individuals who own stick in 401(k) retirement accounts. What is not taken into account are individuals who are in defined pensions plans which includes a significant number of state and local employees as well as some large corporations. These pension plans invest in the stock market, so even though the employees may not directly own stocks, the ability of these pension funds to remain solvent and pay benefits is predicated on the performance of the stock market. If you take into consideration these individuals I am sure the percentage rises significantly over 50%.

But for many, perhaps most, American households, those indexes measure an economy far removed from their own daily bread-and-butter concerns. One figure from a recent working paper by New York University economist Edward Wolff illustrates that point: Fewer than 14 percent of American households directly own stock in any company.

Up until the early 2000s, stock ownership had been on the rise. From 1989 to 2001, the percentage of households directly owning stock rose from 13.1 to 21.3 percent, while the percent owning any stock [including indirect ownership via 401(k)s] increased from 31.7 to 51.9 percent.But since then, stock ownership has declined. The share of households directly owning stock in 2016 (13.9 percent) is similar to the share in the early 90s. The total rate of stock ownership, including indirect holdings, has fallen too but by a slighter amount, owing to the continued popularity of 401(k) retirement plans.

It's worth noting that Wolff's total stock ownership number is a couple of percentage points lower than the 51.9 percent reported by the Federal Reserve's latest Survey of Consumer Finances because of differences in the calculation of indirect stock ownership. But the overall reported trends remain the same.
 
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Legacy

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I don't believe that this is accurate in that the data used to calculate the percentage of Americans who own stocks does not take into account individuals who are enrolled in defined benefit pension plans. For example, according to a December 2017 Washington Post article (see below) approximately 49% of Americans either directly or indirectly own stocks. The definition of indirect ownership per the article includes those individuals who own stick in 401(k) retirement accounts. What is not taken into account are individuals who are in defined pensions plans which includes a significant number of state and local employees as well as some large corporations. These pension plans invest in the stock market, so even though the employees may not directly own stocks, the ability of these pension funds to remain solvent and pay benefits is predicated on the performance of the stock market. If you take into consideration these individuals I am sure the percentage rises significantly over 50%.

Thanks, MJ. Was it you that posted this on pension plans? (Edit: Found the post. It was from NDAccountant)

Hidden Debt, Hidden Deficits: 2017 Edition

Despite the introduction of new accounting standards, the vast majority of state and local governments continue to understate their pension costs and liabilities by relying on investment return assumptions of 7-8 percent per year. This report applies market valuation to pension liabilities for 649 state and local pension funds. Considering only already-earned benefits and treating those liabilities as the guaranteed government debt that they are, I find that as of FY 2015 accrued unfunded liabilities of U.S. state and local pension systems are at least $3.846 trillion, or 2.8 times more than the value reflected in government disclosures. Furthermore, while total government employer contributions to pension systems were $111 billion in 2015, or 4.9 percent of state and local government own revenue, the true annual cost of keeping pension liabilities from rising would be approximately $289 billion or 12.7 percent of revenue. Applying the principles of financial economics reveals that states have large hidden unfunded liabilities and continue to run substantial hidden deficits by means of their pension systems.

More food for thought.

The Unintended Consequences of U.S. Steel Import Tariffs: A
Quantification of the Impact During 2002
 
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MJ12666

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No that was not me. The reason that I am aware of this is that recently the NJ legislator recently pass legislation that effectively separated pension plan assets for police and firefights out of the control of the "state" and put them under a separate pension committee that is basally controlled by police and firefighter unions. In the articles there was obviously some discussion on how the funds were previously managed as well as to how they might be managed in the future. With that said, living in NJ, I am well aware that NJ is in very bad financial condition even without considering its "unfunded" liabilities.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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I don't know what you do/did for a living, but you're too dependent on Fox News for your business analysis. Let's discuss a few points:

Your previous assertion that GDP will remain at 4% is fantasy. It's not going to stay up at 4%, what you saw was a response to the start of trade war. People were forward buying. Get ready for reality to set in, in one to two Qs.

Unemployment has come back down to "full employment" based on our service industries. The problem is, we're hitting bubble territory, really quickly. The eggs are all in the tax-cut basket. The monies that were given to regular Americans are not going far as prices go up (due to the trade war). Also, without rising wages, consumer confidence will do down. With the rising cost of goods most people are already net negative. I guess we'll see the true-story come tax time.

Someone made mention of the stock market being up. Yes, but the stock market is up based on a large part because of lower expenses (tax cuts), special dividends, and stock buy backs. It has nothing to do with the fundamentals of the businesses themselves. Trumps tax cuts were heavily aimed at businesses because he needed them to stimulate money flow and inflate the markets.

What happens when a company buys its stock back? Investors are happy because they get paid, but they also lose a portion of their ownership. Non-investors get interested in purchasing shares, because the company seems to have cash to give. As a result, the stock price can go up, but in reality, nothing has changed for the business operations.

What happens when a company raises its dividend or issues a special dividend? Investors are happy because they get paid. The stock price goes lower, but because the company is signalling an abundance of cash, non-investors get interested... same as above. Nothing has changed for the business operations.

What should a company do when it has a horde of cash? It should be investing in its infrastructure. Build factories, buy stuff, increase its technological capabilities, etc. Are they doing that? Not really. These "plant openings" that trump attributes to his tax cuts have been multiple-years in the making. It would be incredibly financially irresponsible (and also impossible) to make a large decision like that so quickly.

If you're happy about Trump's economic "policies" then I have to question your understanding of economics. You are all falling for a short-term con. The real kicker is Trump calling for the SEC to stop quarterly calls. I agree that short-term outlooks make for bad business-decisions, but Trump's real desire there is to artificially decrease market volatility. He needs you all to continue to fall for his bullshit.

Where are we because of Trump? We're in a trade war, we have no partnerships, and we're trying to fight battles that have already been lost (the use of technology rather than human-labor to increase labor efficiency; the outsourcing of labor to control costs.) So we're going it alone, absorbing higher labor costs, working less efficiently, oh, and we're also starting trade wars. Fucking brilliant.

Forget my business analysis and Fox News. Numbers don't lie. Your entire diatribe of a post was prediction of "what's going to happen next" and mine was "look at where we are now versus two/four/six years ago."

There's no ignoring that unemployment is below 4%

There's no ignoring that Trump policies have been business friendly and leading to an economy that's growing after years of stagnation

There's no ignoring that black and Hispanic unemployment are at all time lows

There's no ignoring that home ownership is on the rise

There's no ignoring that tariffs make goods more expensive, and we're paying the price for it
 
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ickythump1225

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I won't speak ill of the dead on here but I'm most definitely not going to join in on any phony mourning or pretending he was some hero of the republic.
 

Old Man Mike

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... sounds like speaking ill of the dead to me.

Not my hero either but won't be PC about it.
 

ickythump1225

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Death doesn't change all of the damage he has helped bring to our country. His death doesn't bring back all of my fellow Marines who died on foreign sand fighting in wars that McCain shilled for endlessly. I won't post anymore about it and I'll let everyone else post their "damn, RIP bro. Thoughts and prayers to the McCain family" posts. All I'll say is I hope God has mercy on his soul.
 

Legacy

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Death doesn't change all of the damage he has helped bring to our country. His death doesn't bring back all of my fellow Marines who died on foreign sand fighting in wars that McCain shilled for endlessly. I won't post anymore about it and I'll let everyone else post their "damn, RIP bro. Thoughts and prayers to the McCain family" posts. All I'll say is I hope God has mercy on his soul.

He stood up for the Middle Eastern wars, VA spending and knew all the deaths, disabilities and family disruptions those brought, but was a fighter in some cases against all the waste in defense spending. phGreek has had some good posts on the politics involved in that pork and Congressional interference in smart spending. But he had a moral compass and would have been included in Profiles in Courage for his vote against the health care bill.

McCain slams $13B in Pentagon spending in latest waste report


The 10 Most Blatantly Wasteful Defense Items In The Recent $1.8 Trillion Spending Bill
 

SonofOahu

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I won't speak ill of the dead on here but I'm most definitely not going to join in on any phony mourning or pretending he was some hero of the republic.

Death doesn't change all of the damage he has helped bring to our country. His death doesn't bring back all of my fellow Marines who died on foreign sand fighting in wars that McCain shilled for endlessly. I won't post anymore about it and I'll let everyone else post their "damn, RIP bro. Thoughts and prayers to the McCain family" posts. All I'll say is I hope God has mercy on his soul.

You're not a phony, I give you that much. Way to stand by your principles, unlike lyin' Don.
 

loomis41973

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Death doesn't change all of the damage he has helped bring to our country. His death doesn't bring back all of my fellow Marines who died on foreign sand fighting in wars that McCain shilled for endlessly. I won't post anymore about it and I'll let everyone else post their "damn, RIP bro. Thoughts and prayers to the McCain family" posts. All I'll say is I hope God has mercy on his soul.

Would rep you if I could.
 

ickythump1225

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He stood up for the Middle Eastern wars, VA spending and knew all the deaths, disabilities and family disruptions those brought, but was a fighter in some cases against all the waste in defense spending. phGreek has had some good posts on the politics involved in that pork and Congressional interference in smart spending. But he had a moral compass and would have been included in Profiles in Courage for his vote against the health care bill.

McCain slams $13B in Pentagon spending in latest waste report


The 10 Most Blatantly Wasteful Defense Items In The Recent $1.8 Trillion Spending Bill
We wouldn't need so much VA spending if McCain (and his odious neocon ilk) ever stopped calling for wars in every far flung sh*thole in the world unceasingly:
Afghanistan and Iraq
Obviously every US senator (besides California’s Barbara Lee) voted to give president George W. Bush the power to invade Afghanistan following the events of September 11th. However, McCain wasn’t happy with just moving to invade Afghanistan. No, he had other targets on his mind as early as the day after the towers fell.

Despite McCain’s claim in 2014 that “the Iraq war probably wouldn’t have happened” if he had won the 2000 Republican primary and then general election, this assertion seems ridiculous. On September 12th 2001, McCain appeared on MSNBC presenting a long list of countries he felt were providing a “safe harbor” to groups like al Qaeda. This list of course included Iraq and several other countries that appear later on this list.

Syria
Another country on that 2001 list (of course) was Syria. Now, the Bush regime may have never gotten a chance to continue toppling Mideast countries (thanks to the failure in Iraq and the exposure of that war being sold on lies). But McCain seemingly never lost sight of his hatred for Bashar Al-Assad.

Shortly after the Arab Spring “broke out” in Syria, McCain – and his constant partner in war crimes Sen. Lindsey Graham – quickly found communication channels with the “Syrian opposition.” Just a few short months after the US endorsed protests in Syria (even having their ambassador attend), McCain and Graham began calling for arms to start flowing to the Free Syrian Army and other “rebel” groups.

Libya
McCain’s plans for Syria never quite worked the way he wanted but he probably should’ve know they would never yield a positive result. If McCain didn’t want to look at Iraq to prove that point, he had another more recent example he could’ve used: the NATO intervention in Libya.

It was less than a year before McCain wanted to arm Syrian takfiris that he had supported with the bombing and no fly zones in Libya. McCain even wanted tougher actions against the country. Which has now become an anarchic Wild West that’s home to all sorts of horrors from the Islamic State to a new slave trade.

West and Central Africa
McCain is also a champion of the “war on terror” in other parts of Africa. While McCain hasn’t directly supported terrorists in some countries in Africa, he still has called for more US intervention across the continent.

This list includes countries dealing with Islamic insurgencies, such as Mali. McCain has also called for plans like “deploying Special Forces” to rescue girls kidnapped by Boko Haram in Nigeria and intervention in Sudan, where McCain and his wife have invested money for some time.

Iran
Another country on the list of hated nations originally put forth by Bush undersecretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz, and also another long time target of McCain, is of course Iran.

Although McCain has always said “he prays” there will never be at war with Iran, the man constantly calls for it and even jokes about bombing the country when he feels the mood is right. The truth of the matter is, McCain’s positions towards Iran are so hostile that even flagship neoconservative institutions like the Cato Institute think he is too hawkish.

Bosnia and Kosovo
But McCain isn’t satisfied with just backing salafi jihadists in the traditional Middle East and North African theaters. He’s also backed violent radicals across the fringes of Europe. This trend really started in the mid 1990’s when McCain was a vocal supporter of then president Bill Clinton’s war in Bosnia.

Many of the Muslims traveling to Bosnia joining the mujahideen there have joined groups like IS in recent years. And IS flags can occasionally be seen in the Sunni areas of Bosnia now. McCain was still backing potential takfiri movements, recently accusing Russia of interfering in local affairs, and calling for more US intervention in the country.

McCain made similar decisions when he advocated US intervention in Kosovo in the late 90’s. In the Kosovo conflict, McCain backed the Kosovo Liberation Army: a genocidal jihadist organization with ties to Al Qaeda under Osama Bin Laden.

Ukraine
Don’t be fooled into thinking that McCain only supports jihadists in Eastern Europe though! He also backs the overt Nazis acting as death squads for Kiev in the ongoing Ukrainian conflict.

This of course started in 2014, but McCain has continued to pledge support for Kiev’s crimes in the Donbass region to this day. This is all par for the course in McCain’s larger theme of challenging Russia– the country he believes controls the separatists in eastern Ukraine.

Russia
The story of McCain’s hatred of Russia spans back to the Cold War. We won’t get into McCain’s fear of communism that’s evolved into just general Russophobia. But we will say he didn’t have many excuses to focus on making threats towards Moscow for a good 15-20 year stretch.

This changed in 2008, with the war in South Ossetia between Georgia and Russia. During this conflict McCain was the loudest voice saying the US “should immediately call a meeting of the North Atlantic Council to assess Georgia’s security and review measures NATO can take to contribute to stabilizing this very dangerous situation.”

This same situation repeated in Ukraine in 2014 but McCain’s worst comments came this year. As soon as the US Intelligence Community’s accused Russia of interference in the 2016 US elections– and without any evidence– McCain was first to say the event was an “act of war.”

North Korea
The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DRPK/North Korea) was also an early target of McCain’s making his September 12th wish list. More recently though, the restyled “Trump opponent” McCain was all-in on the new regime’s saber rattling. Calling on Trump to strike the nuclear armed country.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-22/complete-history-john-mccain-calling-war-around-world
McCain never met a war or "military action" he didn't enthusiastically support. While everyone is remembering what a "hero" and a "statesman" McCain was, I'm going to remember all of the dudes my age who are maimed, crippled, wounded, messed up in the head, or that never came back because of wars that McCain used his considerable power and influence to shill for.
 

ickythump1225

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Not to mention the toppling of Libya reopened routes for African human/sex traffickers and opened a corridor for Europe to be flooded with "refugees" many of whom were refugees in the first place because of policies that McCain supported. The same thing would have happened in Syria if McCain and his neocon ilk were successful in overthrowing Assad.
 

Legacy

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We wouldn't need so much VA spending if McCain (and his odious neocon ilk) ever stopped calling for wars in every far flung sh*thole in the world unceasingly:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-22/complete-history-john-mccain-calling-war-around-world
McCain never met a war or "military action" he didn't enthusiastically support. While everyone is remembering what a "hero" and a "statesman" McCain was, I'm going to remember all of the dudes my age who are maimed, crippled, wounded, messed up in the head, or that never came back because of wars that McCain used his considerable power and influence to shill for.

I agree. What a waste of Americans who could have contributed to America, built their own families and passed along their values. He also may have never met a military weapons system he didn't initially support and that we could export.
 

IrishLax

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We wouldn't need so much VA spending if McCain (and his odious neocon ilk) ever stopped calling for wars in every far flung sh*thole in the world unceasingly:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-22/complete-history-john-mccain-calling-war-around-world
McCain never met a war or "military action" he didn't enthusiastically support. While everyone is remembering what a "hero" and a "statesman" McCain was, I'm going to remember all of the dudes my age who are maimed, crippled, wounded, messed up in the head, or that never came back because of wars that McCain used his considerable power and influence to shill for.

Afghanistan and Iraq - lots of people you can't call a "neo-con" supported the war in Iraq. A coalition of liberal countries also supported that war. Laying it on McCain like it's something uniquely endorsed by him is silly, and we've already been over this.

How you can possibly try to in hindsight be against invading Afghanistan to go after the Taliban/Bin Laden is preposterous. That military action had damn near universal support, period.

Syria - so you're pro-Assad? Interesting.

Libya - so you're pro-Gaddafi? Interesting. And Libya -- a NATO action that happens with or without John McCain -- has turned into a disaster because of a power vacuum not because a dictator was deposed. The same way Bush disbanding the Iraqi Republican Guard lead directly to ISIS.

Africa - ... nothing has happened here except effective counter-terrorism to stop the growth of ISIS. Mostly things like fighting propaganda and radicalism with little direct armed combat, and the total number of casualties to American forces is extremely low. You'd rather ISIS just take over Africa unchecked?

Iran - ... nothing has happened here?

Bosnia and Kosovo - What a load of bullshit. Again, NATO intervention in Kosovo was supported by everyone with a brain on both sides of the aisle across the world. You would've just turned a blind eye to the genocide of Albanians? And there were ZERO American combat casualties in the intervention.

Ukraine/Russia/North Korea - No military action has happened in any of these places, and the characterizations of foreign policy in these regions is laughable.

So to add everything up, the only military conflicts in that long list of bullshit that lead to so-called "all of my fellow Marines who died on foreign sand fighting in wars that McCain shilled for endlessly" are the ones in Afghanistan and Iraq. If you don't think there should've been military action in Afghanistan, then you believe someone should be able to murder thousands of Americans without consequence. And Iraq -- generally regarded by everyone as a huge mistake -- wasn't just shilled for by McCain but politicians on both sides of the aisle throughout the west because of bad intelligence presented by the Bush administration. Where's the story here? Where's the blood on his proverbial hands?

I get that you hate McCain. But if you stop reading places like numbersusa and zerohedge you could probably present a better argument why.
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Completely agree. A chunk of the base watched McCain be civil, get smeared, and lose. Then they watched Romney be civil, get smeared, and lose. So they concluded the nominee would be smeared regardless, norms didn’t matter, and only winning elections mattered. Enter Trump. <a href="https://t.co/BQqb59FjbM">https://t.co/BQqb59FjbM</a></p>— James Hasson (@JamesHasson20) <a href="https://twitter.com/JamesHasson20/status/1033848224954691585?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2018</a></blockquote>
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