Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

RDU Irish

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Tyco being bought by Johnson Controls so they can move HQ to Ireland - saving $150M in annual taxes and freeing up access to cash held outside the US.

I know some here knee jerk reaction is these folks are traitors but fact remains our tax code is hamstringing our economy.
 

phgreek

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Is it safe to say you don't have kids? Would you have no legitimate beef if your son or daughter was used?

I do indeed have kids...my point was, those images would have been up there indefinitely without the FBI...with the FBI they are down. Sooo, I don't think I could find a way to complain, especially if the slight delay in the images coming down ruined the kind of people who were responsible for said images being up there in the first place...
 

woolybug25

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connor_in

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From the guy that brought you the concern for Smoothie and Shifty knocking up all Maine's white girls...


Maine Gov. Paul LePage: Bring back the guillotine for drug dealers - CNNPolitics.com

"What I think we ought to do is bring the guillotine back," he told WMOV. "We could have public executions and have, you know, we could even have (guessing) which hole it falls in."

Dear Maine,

Did you really elect this dude?

Sincerely,

~Bug

plinko-o.gif
 

Circa

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Whiskeyjack

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AmCon's Daniel McCarthy just published an article titled "The Mind of Russell Kirk":

For 175 years the United States was not a country known for its self-consciously conservative thought. America’s “Tories,” after all, had been on the wrong side of the Revolutionary War. The names of our great political parties—Whig, Republican, Democratic—were everywhere else labels for liberal or radical groupings. Americans may have had their own kind of conservatism, but they rarely called it that.

But something changed after World War II. Not only did books with titles like Conservatism Revisited, The Case for Conservatism, The Conservative Mind, and Conservatism in America appear in rapid succession between 1947 and 1955, but distinctly conservative ideas—not merely pro-business or anti-communist ones—were unmistakable in works by authors such as Richard M. Weaver and Robert Nisbet. Observers called this efflorescence of the intellectual right “the New Conservatism.”

Why did conservatism enjoy a revival at this, of all times, even in as unlikely a place as America? War is the answer: specifically, the disillusionment that thinkers of conservative temper experienced as a result of World War II.

Europe’s turn to totalitarianism before the war had already prompted the first stirrings. “The success of literal ‘National Socialists’ whether Hitler or Stalin, is in their vote-getting synthesis of romantic expansive nationalism with a planned economy,” wrote Peter Viereck in the April 1940 issue of The Atlantic. “In contrast, we conservatives must synthesize the good in the latter, not with despotism, but with freedom—that is, with all our ancient civil liberties, tolerance of minorities, and a peaceful internationalism of Law.”

Viereck was “twenty-three years of age, unemployed, short of cash,” yet confident. His outlook was like that of Guy Crouchback, protagonist of Evelyn Waugh’s “Sword of Honor” trilogy of World War II novels, at the beginning of the conflict. With Nazis and Soviets on one side and the Christian West on the other, everything was clear to Crouchback: “The enemy at last was plain in view, huge and hateful, all disguise cast off. It was the Modern Age in arms.”

But at the end of the war Stalin controlled half of Europe with the West’s acquiescence. For Crouchback, as for his author, this amounted to unconditional surrender of the very principles of civilization for which the West had fought.

Richard Weaver, soon to be a professor of rhetoric at the University of Chicago, felt the same way. The war was over, but, he asked a friend in 1945,

is anything saved? We cannot be sure. True, there are a few buildings left standing around, but what kind of animal is going to inhabit them? I have become convinced in the past few years that the essence of civilization is ethical (with perhaps some helping out from aesthetics). And never has the power of ethical discrimination been as low as it is today. The atomic bomb was a final blow to the code of humanity. I cannot help thinking that we will suffer retribution for this. For a long time to come I believe my chief interest is going to be the restoration of civilization, of the distinctions that make life intelligible.

Weaver’s 1948 book, Ideas Have Consequences—one of the first classics of postwar conservative literature—was, he explained in its foreword, “a reaction to that war—to its immense destructiveness, to the strain it placed upon ethical principles, and to the tensions it left in place of the peace and order that were professedly sought.”

A year later Viereck published Conservatism Revisited, which gave the “New Conservatism” its name. But it was a work by another young scholar, four years hence, that would connect this philosophy with the popular imagination. That scholar was Russell Kirk, and his book was The Conservative Mind.

♦♦♦

Bradley J. Birzer begins his definitive new biography of Kirk—Russell Kirk: American Conservative—with his subject stationed in the Utah desert, at Dugway Proving Ground, where the U.S. Army Chemical Weapons Service put its wares to the test. “Coming here,” wrote Kirk to his friend Bill McCann in 1942, “tends to make me lean toward the Stoic belief in a special providence—or perhaps more to the belief of Schopenhauer that we are punished for our sins, in proportion to our sins, here on earth.”

Military life instilled in Kirk a lasting hatred of regimentation. “Greater self-love has no government than this: that all men must wear khaki so that some men may be taught to brush their teeth,” he wrote in a 1946 essay about the prospect of a peacetime draft, one of his first published pieces.

He was even more scathing in a 1949 short story. “America, I Love You” tells of one Private Dahmer, who as Birzer relates “proudly destroyed Albrecht Dürer’s house and stole the fourteenth-century charter of the village of Kempten. It turns out that Dahmer also raped a woman in Munich.” Kirk has Dahmer explain why he intends to remain in the Army after the war: “you’re a king. You take a little stuff from the officers, sure; but then you get a chance to kick somebody else around, half the time.”

Kirk responded to the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki much as Richard Weaver did: Americans were wont to talk of “progress,” he wrote to McCann, but “apparently, it has been progress toward annihilation, an end to be accomplished, perhaps, by the improved atomic bomb? We have dealt more death and destruction in the space of ten years than the men of the Middle Ages, with their Devil, were able to accomplish in a thousand.”

That was not the war’s only irony: “the expulsion of American Japanese from the West Coast … might, if necessary, be compared to a number of other well-known exoduses.” While fighting fascism, America had taken its own steps down the road to something similar.

Perhaps it’s no surprise, then, that after the war Kirk left the country to pursue graduate studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. Before joining the Army he had already written a master’s thesis at Duke University on John Randolph of Roanoke, a Virginia statesman more Jeffersonian than Thomas Jefferson himself. Kirk didn’t repudiate Americans like Randolph in his St. Andrews doctoral dissertation—which became the basis for The Conservative Mind—but he came to see them as variations on a deeper theme of Anglo-American civilization, whose conservatism was rooted in the life and thought of Edmund Burke.

“In essence, The Conservative Mind offered the West not only something to love but proof that such things had been loved since the eighteenth century and, before that, since antiquity and the Middle Ages,” Birzer writes. There was a personal as well as a philosophical motive behind it: Kirk had come to Scotland in 1948 with a younger woman with whom he was in love. She left him. “Too much a brother, too much a father, too much a preceptor, too much a husband—these things, and my exceeding love, made an end of me,” he wrote in his diary. “With Rosy gone, what am I seeking now from life?” His answer: “An invigoration of conservative principles.”

♦♦♦

After he completed the dissertation in 1952, Kirk expected it to be published back home by Alfred A. Knopf. But Knopf wanted drastic cuts, so instead the book was brought out by Henry Regnery in 1953, to an avalanche of reviews. The Catholic press loved it. The liberal literary establishment generally did not—but they took it seriously.

Hostility from one quarter was unexpected. Frank Chodorov, editor of the libertarian Freeman, had been irked by the readiness of conservatives like Viereck to accept the New Deal. Now that Kirk had delivered what was hailed as the New Conservatism’s magnum opus, Chodorov assigned a reviewer to take him down. The task fell to Frank Meyer, an ex-Communist turned libertarian-conservative fusionist. “Collectivism Rebaptized,” Meyer’s 1955 attack on Kirk and the “New Conservatives”—among whose ranks Kirk did not, in fact, wish to be counted—became a cause of enduring animus, not only between Kirk and Meyer but between Kirk and libertarians generally.

Meyer’s involvement in National Review, which launched that same year, made Kirk suspicious. But the magazine’s founder, William F. Buckley Jr., succeeded in courting him—much to Kirk’s detriment, Birzer contends. “Kirk’s involvement with Buckley and the National Review as well as with the Goldwater campaign lessened his reach and allowed his opposition to question his integrity and consequently the integrity of nonpolitical conservatism.” T.S. Eliot—who had been much impressed by The Conservative Mind and arranged for its publication in Britain—had warned Kirk of this danger in 1956:

I fear that a reader of ‘The National Review’ who does not already share 100% Mr. Buckley’s opinions, might gradually get the impression that it was a vehicle of prejudice, and that all issues were decided in advance. I think that would be a great pity from the point of view of the need for a sane Conservatism in American life…

Two rather different things, both called “conservatism,” came together in the 1950s, with Kirk at the center of their confluence. There was the Burkean philosophical conservatism—the so-called New Conservatism—that Viereck and Kirk had developed in their separate ways. Then there was the resurgent political conservatism—economically liberal, in the “classical” sense, with a vein of populism and nationalism—that gathered force in National Review and the campaign to draft Goldwater for the 1960 Republican nomination. These two conservatisms overlapped, including to some extent in Kirk himself. But they were not the same thing.

Birzer argues persuasively that Kirk’s conservatism is better understood as a kind of “Christian humanism” than as anything overtly political. Kirk incorporated Stoicism and other classical influences with a gothic and sometimes unorthodox Christianity—spiced with a dash of the occult—into his worldview. In 1964 he became a Catholic during his engagement to Annette Courtemanche, yet even thereafter, Birzer suggests, “Kirk was a Stoic pagan who later added Catholicism to his Stoic paganism.”

Chodorov and early on Buckley—in God and Man at Yale, for example, published in 1951—thought of themselves as “individualists” not “conservatives.” (Chodorov threatened to “punch in the nose” anyone who called him a conservative.) But “conservative” was what progressives had called their opponents since before the New Deal, and now that Kirk had traced a respectable lineage for conservatism, the word became popular with many people who had formerly identified as individualists, anticommunists, or simply Republicans. They changed their label, but not their politics.

One of these two conservatisms was aimed at getting power—if only, in theory, to fight communism and bolster free markets. The other was aimed at humanizing power by reforming character and culture, and while Kirk did not join Viereck in embracing the welfare state, he applied the demands of humanism to markets as well as to the state.

The clearest difference between the two conservatisms arose in foreign policy: humanist conservatives, Christian or otherwise, were less apt to support military interventions or restrict citizens’ civil liberties in the name of fighting communism. “A ‘preventive’ war, whether or not it might be successful in the field—and that is a question much in doubt—would be morally ruinous to us,” Kirk wrote in A Program for Conservatives, his 1954 sequel to The Conservative Mind.

Caught up in the Goldwater movement and controversies of the Vietnam era, “Kirk became increasingly hawkish in foreign policy in the 1960s,” Birzer reports. But in the years before his death in 1994, his noninterventionism was stronger than ever: in “attempting to demolish the work and the ideas of the neoconservatives,” Birzer writes, Kirk “found a new intellectual vigor.” He opposed the 1991 Gulf War and shocked a Heritage Foundation audience by observing “not seldom it has seemed as if some eminent Neoconservatives mistook Tel Aviv for the capital of the United States.”

Yet to characterize Kirk—or Weaver, Viereck, or any of the postwar philosophical conservatives—as simply “antiwar” would be a mistake. Their distinguishing characteristic was not what they were against but what they were for: restoring the roots of civilized conduct in literature, philosophy, and personal character.

Kirk’s quip at Heritage earned him accusations of anti-Semitism, which Birzer shows were not only unjust but ironic. His most vicious detractors included certain disciples of Leo Strauss, yet Strauss and Kirk had been mutually supportive friends. Indeed, in 1957 Kirk launched the journal Modern Age in part to defend Strauss against liberals’ aspersions, and he resigned from the quarterly the following year after coming to believe one of his colleagues was anti-Semitic. Kirk wrote of his vision for Modern Age, “I have been endeavoring to steer clear of bigotry, intolerance, eccentricity, and preoccupation with the hour’s political controversies—the curses of American conservatives.”

Birzer, who not coincidentally holds the Russell Amos Kirk Chair of History at Hillsdale College, provides as much insight into Kirk’s life as Kirk’s work provides into conservatism. His chapters on less known dimensions of Kirk, including his family life and fictional oeuvre—one novel, Old House of Fear, outsold anything else he wrote, including The Conservative Mind—are superb. But most valuable of all is the reminder this biography serves of how conservatives like Kirk sought to recover civilization from the ashes of war and collapse: one book, one line, one thought at a time.

There’s much more to say—but Birzer says it best in Russell Kirk: American Conservative.

Sharing this here since the bolded helps explain why the label "conservative" is so muddled, and why I'm not a Republican. The politics of Chodorov and Buckley dominate the GOP, but Kirk's philosophical conservatism is nowhere to be found.
 
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RDU Irish

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I'm pretty sure 99.5% of "conservatives" don't put that much thought into it.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I'm pretty sure 99.5% of "conservatives" don't put that much thought into it.

99.5% of people don't put this much thought into politics at all, regardless of party affiliation. But ideas have consequences, and the elites who control our two mainstream parties set the political agenda. The GOP is dominated by neo-liberalism and libertarianism, so that's what passes for "conservatism" in America; though what are they looking to conserve?
 
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NDgradstudent

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The GOP is dominated by neo-liberalism and libertarianism, so that's what passes for "conservatism" in America; though what are they looking to conserve?

Conservatism varies between countries more than other political theories. Most conservatives in Britain want to conserve the monarchy and other British institutions; most conservatives in America want to conserve the Constitution and its institutions. Insofar as the American Constitution creates a classically liberal republic, that is what most American conservatives want to conserve.

I should add the Burke -who most people at TAC would regard as a "real" conservative- famously sympathized with the American colonists. His view of economics is not readily distinguishable from Adam Smith's.
 

RDU Irish

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99.5% of people don't put this much thought into politics at all, regardless of party affiliation. But ideas have consequences, and the elites who control our two mainstream parties set the political agenda. The GOP is dominated by neo-liberalism and libertarianism, so that's what passes for "conservatism" in America; though what are they looking to conserve?

Dominated by libertarianism? Really? Rand Paul gets like 2% of the vote and hardly anyone else is even close to touching ANY of the issues he pounds the table on. His Dad was ostracized for decades, nobody wanted his 10% following and his Audit the Fed top issue can't get passed despite publicly having few detractors. I see a lot of things on the Republican stage but very little has to do with reducing the size of federal government.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Conservatism varies between countries more than other political theories. Most conservatives in Britain want to conserve the monarchy and other British institutions; most conservatives in America want to conserve the Constitution and its institutions. Insofar as the American Constitution creates a classically liberal republic, that is what most American conservatives want to conserve.

Doesn't that strike you as an important point? "Conservatives' aren't really offering a valid alternative to liberalism, but are fighting to restore certain conditions as they existed at some already liberal point in the past. Perhaps that's why they always seem to be losing ground.

I should add the Burke -who most people at TAC would regard as a "real" conservative- famously sympathized with the American colonists. His view of economics is not readily distinguishable from Adam Smith's.

MacIntyre was no fan of Burke's, and he also has plenty of disciples at TAC.

Dominated by libertarianism? Really? Rand Paul gets like 2% of the vote and hardly anyone else is even close to touching ANY of the issues he pounds the table on. His Dad was ostracized for decades, nobody wanted his 10% following and his Audit the Fed top issue can't get passed despite publicly having few detractors. I see a lot of things on the Republican stage but very little has to do with reducing the size of federal government.

Oh, please. I said the GOP is dominated by libertarianism and neo-liberalism, not by candidates who self-identify according to those labels. I don't see how that's even arguable looking at the party's platform and presidential candidates since WWII. And this follows on from the point I made above, but you're right to notice that the GOP has never managed to reduce the size of the federal government, not even during St. Reagan's presidency. And the reason for that is simple-- Republicans promote liberal/ individualist policies, which undermine communitarian values, which causes the decline of tradition/ culture/ civil institutions... and government always fills the growing vacuum where those institutions once exerted influence.

That's why I'm no longer a libertarian. The seeds of its own destruction are contained within its first principles.
 

wizards8507

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Republicans promote liberal/ individualist policies, which undermine communitarian values, which causes the decline of tradition/ culture/ civil institutions... and government always fills the growing vacuum where those institutions once exerted influence.
This is a contradiction due to what I believe is your reversal of cause-and-effect relationships. By definition, liberal/individualist policies do not include "government filling the vacuum where community institutions once exerted influence." One of the fundamental freedoms of classical liberalism is freedom of association. In other words, the libertarian does not exclusively defend individual liberty, but also the liberty of groups formed via the free association of various individuals therein. You view the libertarian dichotomy as one of individuals versus institutions. Under that framework, a libertarian would be hostile to community organizations, organized religion, etc. However, the dichotomy is not individuals versus institutions but individuals and private institutions versus the State. Community institutions are allies against government tyranny, not complicit oppressors to be fought.
 

RDU Irish

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Can't think of a single thing Republicans have actually DONE to reverse the increasing reach of gubment or push things back to the states. It is all rhetoric that people want to see but the actual Republican establishment has zero interest in actually taking action on any of those glossed over talking points.

Bush is a prime example - expand education through no child left behind, make the tax code just as convoluted and confusing, NSA really could not have been accomplished within the scope of CIA and FBI? WAR yeah, lets buy some tanks! Dude grew government just as bad as anyone else. Any remotely libertarian thoughts quickly take a back seat to expediting "conservative" agenda of the military industrial complex and mandating morality within the general political context of promoting yourself through crony capitalism.

Liberty be damned in the name of nanny state protection from bad guys.


Honest question, Whiskey - who do you identify with? I think a lot of the populous has an identity crisis, neither party wants philosophers, they want foot soldiers.
 
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RDU Irish

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This is a contradiction due to what I believe is your reversal of cause-and-effect relationships. By definition, liberal/individualist policies do not include "government filling the vacuum where community institutions once exerted influence." One of the fundamental freedoms of classical liberalism is freedom of association. In other words, the libertarian does not exclusively defend individual liberty, but also the liberty of groups formed via the free association of various individuals therein. You view the libertarian dichotomy as one of individuals versus institutions. Under that framework, a libertarian would be hostile to community organizations, organized religion, etc. However, the dichotomy is not individuals versus institutions but individuals and private institutions versus the State. Community institutions are allies against government tyranny, not complicit oppressors to be fought.

Which is why crony capitalists fight these institutions from engaging in politics under the guise of separation of church and state. Preach against the machine and your church risks losing tax exempt status - but GE can fund a SuperPac that attacks anyone over the airwaves.
 

wizards8507

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Can't think of a single thing Republicans have actually DONE to reverse the increasing reach of gubment or push things back to the states. It is all rhetoric that people want to see but the actual Republican establishment has zero interest in actually taking action on any of those glossed over talking points.

Bush is a prime example - expand education through no child left behind, make the tax code just as convoluted and confusing, NSA really could not have been accomplished within the scope of CIA and FBI? WAR yeah, lets buy some tanks! Dude grew government just as bad as anyone else. Any remotely libertarian thoughts quickly take a back seat to expediting "conservative" agenda of the military industrial complex and mandating morality within the general political context of promoting yourself through crony capitalism.

Liberty be damned in the name of nanny state protection from bad guys.
Maybe I'm misremembering your posts in the 2016 race thread, but don't you support Trump? He's more "liberty be damned" than even the RINOiest of RINOs.
 

Whiskeyjack

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This is a contradiction due to what I believe is your reversal of cause-and-effect relationships. By definition, liberal/individualist policies do not include "government filling the vacuum where community institutions once exerted influence." One of the fundamental freedoms of classical liberalism is freedom of association. In other words, the libertarian does not exclusively defend individual liberty, but also the liberty of groups formed via the free association of various individuals therein. You view the libertarian dichotomy as one of individuals versus institutions. Under that framework, a libertarian would be hostile to community organizations, organized religion, etc. However, the dichotomy is not individuals versus institutions but individuals and private institutions versus the State. Community institutions are allies against government tyranny, not complicit oppressors to be fought.

We've fleshed this argument out already in the Liberalism v. Conservatism thread. But I'll try to summarize our points of disagreement briefly for those who aren't inclined to read it:
  • The real ideological split in this country is not between conservatives and liberals, but between communitarians and individualists;
  • All liberal political ideologies--whether "conservative", liberal (Progressive), or radical (libertarian)--are essentially individualist;
  • Individualism is based on a false anthropology of self-ownership and social contractarianism, which in direct conflict with man's obvious political nature;
  • Authority is unavoidable. Communitarians want to see it concentrated among families, neighborhoods, churches and schools. But individualists, regardless of how they feel about "gubmint", promote an ever-growing state because their false anthropology is hostile to the true and virtuous sources of authority-- civil society.
  • Government is an unavoidable logical outworking of the authority that begins with the family and works its way outward. Just as a market is an unavoidable logical outworking of the free exchange that occurs within a community. But they're both social constructs that ought to serve communities; not the other way around. Characterizing one as inherently evil and another as inherently virtuous is completely nonsensical.

Can't think of a single thing Republicans have actually DONE to reverse the increasing reach of gubment or push things back to the states. It is all rhetoric that people want to see but the actual Republican establishment has zero interest in actually taking action on any of those glossed over talking points.

Bush is a prime example - expand education through no child left behind, make the tax code just as convoluted and confusing, NSA really could not have been accomplished within the scope of CIA and FBI? WAR yeah, lets buy some tanks! Dude grew government just as bad as anyone else. Any remotely libertarian thoughts quickly take a back seat to expediting "conservative" agenda of the military industrial complex and mandating morality within the general political context of promoting yourself through crony capitalism.

Liberty be damned in the name of nanny state protection from bad guys.

Trump's supporters definitely aren't small government types. They're backing a strongman who is promising to look out for their interests.
 

wizards8507

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We've fleshed this argument out already in the Liberalism v. Conservatism thread. But I'll try to summarize our points of disagreement briefly for those who aren't inclined to read it:
  • The real ideological split in this country is not between conservatives and liberals, but between communitarians and individualists;
  • All liberal political ideologies--whether "conservative", liberal (Progressive), or radical (libertarian)--are essentially individualist;
  • Individualism is based on a false anthropology of self-ownership and social contractarianism, which in direct conflict with man's obvious political nature;
  • Authority is unavoidable. Communitarians want to see it concentrated among families, neighborhoods, churches and schools. But individualists, regardless of how they feel about "gubmint", promote an ever-growing state because their false anthropology is hostile to the true and virtuous sources of authority-- civil society.
  • Government is an unavoidable logical outworking of the authority that begins with the family and works its way outward. Just as a market is an unavoidable logical outworking of the free exchange that occurs within a community. But they're both social constructs that ought to serve communities; not the other way around. Characterizing one as inherently evil and another as inherently virtuous is completely nonsensical.
We don't have to go all the way down the road again, but I'd add to your summary that my belief in self-ownership is what I see as the logical conclusion of Genesis 1:26-27.
 

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Maybe I'm misremembering your posts in the 2016 race thread, but don't you support Trump? He's more "liberty be damned" than even the RINOiest of RINOs.

Fair question - I take any R on the stage versus any D. It starts as a lesser of many evils.

Kasich and Bush are my top choices for responsible adults in the room. Neither of them are getting the nod, if we are lucky Kasich gets VP. Bush, too bad your a Bush.

Cruz and Rubio are senators who have never run sh!t, that drops them from my list off the bat. Rubio/Kasich ticket is appealing if Kasich is a true advisor and #2 in charge versus seat warmer only brought in to reel in Ohio. Rubio needs an adult to help him drive. Cruz is just completely unlikeable. F-ing count Chockula/grandpa Munster talking over 95% of America's heads. Fight for everything, win nothing, zero peers in the Senate support him. Both of these guys are just as accomplished as Barack Obama.

Carson is in way over his head but would undoubtedly build a team I would respect - and he would need one hell of a team. Dude is toast, not even sure what he is offering other than a non-Trump outsider option.

Philisophically love Rand Paul but outside of killing it with nominations for courts I don't know what he would really be able to get done and doesn't have experience to be a reliable executive (see anti-Senator take above). Disappointed he did not bring a better demeanor and broader fight to at least make a case for a quality VP option.

Christie's tough guy schtick is tiring. Doesn't seem to know anyone he wouldn't want to put in jail. Personal liberties be damned, Big Brother Christie will scare you into turning your entire life over to him so he can keep you "safe". I have a problem with anyone that wants to kick the failed War on Drugs into hyper-drive.

I prefer Trump over Senators Cruz and Rubio - I think he can actually get shit done. It may be 60-80% good but it would be 100% done versus their 0% done aspiring for 100% good. At the end of the day, deals would be pragmatically done otherwise Congress would never approve! His wild rhetoric is all theatrics to move the needle TOWARD him to get a better deal, who in their right mind actually thinks his actions are anything but that? And the world would walk on eggshells around us pretty damn quickly.

Rank in order of my preference:
Kasich
Paul
Bush
Trump
Rubio
Christie
Cruz
Carson
 

Whiskeyjack

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MacIntyre certainly dislikes Burke, but admires some other conservatives such as Oakshott.

There's much to admire in the work of Oakeshott, Kirk, and others in that vein; they're at their best when they're describing the importance of the permanent things, culture, Western civilization, etc. They're at their worst when they try to ground that defense in philosophical liberalism, because that smuggles in a whole host of harmful assumptions. But the temptation is understandable, since it's the water in which we moderns swim.
 

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I prefer Trump over Senators Cruz and Rubio - I think he can actually get shit done. It may be 60-80% good but it would be 100% done versus their 0% done aspiring for 100% good. At the end of the day, deals would be pragmatically done otherwise Congress would never approve! His wild rhetoric is all theatrics to move the needle TOWARD him to get a better deal, who in their right mind actually thinks his actions are anything but that? And the world would walk on eggshells around us pretty damn quickly.
This is one of the biggest problems I have with modern government. Everything is about "getting things done." I'd be perfectly happy with a government that got absolutely nothing done, because most of what they want to do is Constitutionally illegitimate and ultimately harmful.

Rank in order of my preference:
Kasich
Paul
Bush
Trump
Rubio
Christie
Cruz
Carson
I feel like your number one and two choices are the most ideologically opposed of any two candidates in the race. Rand Paul is a (mostly) principled libertarian. John Kasich wants the government to have a back door into your personal encrypted devices, and to build that door in secrecy in the White House, not even in a public piece of legislation.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/john-kasich-would-prefer-to-solve-the-encryption-034928651.html

That's terrifying.
 

RDU Irish

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If they have a warrant I want them to be able to get where they need to go. Isn't the bigger issue warrantless searches and casting ridiculously large nets?

Ideologically opposed? None of the Republican candidates are (on the whole) very much opposed - its shades of grey. Issue by issue there are differences but by and large they SAY very similar things and every one of them has good ideas. Those ideas are worth exactly squat if they are not able to implement them.
 

phgreek

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Fair question - I take any R on the stage versus any D. It starts as a lesser of many evils.

Kasich and Bush are my top choices for responsible adults in the room. Neither of them are getting the nod, if we are lucky Kasich gets VP. Bush, too bad your a Bush.

Cruz and Rubio are senators who have never run sh!t, that drops them from my list off the bat. Rubio/Kasich ticket is appealing if Kasich is a true advisor and #2 in charge versus seat warmer only brought in to reel in Ohio. Rubio needs an adult to help him drive. Cruz is just completely unlikeable. F-ing count Chockula/grandpa Munster talking over 95% of America's heads. Fight for everything, win nothing, zero peers in the Senate support him. Both of these guys are just as accomplished as Barack Obama.

Carson is in way over his head but would undoubtedly build a team I would respect - and he would need one hell of a team. Dude is toast, not even sure what he is offering other than a non-Trump outsider option.

Philisophically love Rand Paul but outside of killing it with nominations for courts I don't know what he would really be able to get done and doesn't have experience to be a reliable executive (see anti-Senator take above). Disappointed he did not bring a better demeanor and broader fight to at least make a case for a quality VP option.

Christie's tough guy schtick is tiring. Doesn't seem to know anyone he wouldn't want to put in jail. Personal liberties be damned, Big Brother Christie will scare you into turning your entire life over to him so he can keep you "safe". I have a problem with anyone that wants to kick the failed War on Drugs into hyper-drive.

I prefer Trump over Senators Cruz and Rubio - I think he can actually get shit done. It may be 60-80% good but it would be 100% done versus their 0% done aspiring for 100% good. At the end of the day, deals would be pragmatically done otherwise Congress would never approve! His wild rhetoric is all theatrics to move the needle TOWARD him to get a better deal, who in their right mind actually thinks his actions are anything but that? And the world would walk on eggshells around us pretty damn quickly.

Rank in order of my preference:
Kasich
Paul
Bush
Trump
Rubio
Christie
Cruz
Carson

My order is about the same...similar rationale...I'd switch Bush and Paul...giving deference to Executive success over appealing ideas. I can't figure out why people can't SEE Kasich. Head and shoulders better than any of the Senators...he actually articulated some meaningful policy and vision...WTF...I don't see how people can listen to Rubio and Cruz, and then Kasich and think the prior are a better choice...SMH.
 

IrishLax

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Tax Cuts For The Poor And Middle Class -- Not The Rich -- Create Jobs, Research Shows

So according to this study from last year, tax cuts and tax increases to the bottom 90% (~120K or so) have a significant impact on job growth but tax cuts or tax increases on the top 10% have little impact on job growth.


Thoughts? Opinions?

Doesn't surprise me at all. Didn't read the article, but generally speaking people in that chunk of the populous spend money when its given to them. The more money changing hands, the stronger the economy is going to be, and jobs will organically be created. Dave Chapelle once did a sketch about reparation checks for black people and one of the core jokes is that it fixed the economy overnight because the people just went out and spent it on crap.

When you give more money to people that already have their needs and luxuries accounted for, they generally save or invest it... and very few investments truly create jobs.

All of this sort of hearkens back to the implicit problems with our tax system. I'd support higher taxes on individual wealth, but I don't support things like taxing corporations more to pay for Government programs. The latter is easier for politicians to get voters to stomach, but it hurts the middle-class and lower-class more than it ends up hurting the executives/company owners.
 

pkt77242

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Doesn't surprise me at all. Didn't read the article, but generally speaking people in that chunk of the populous spend money when its given to them. The more money changing hands, the stronger the economy is going to be, and jobs will organically be created. Dave Chapelle once did a sketch about reparation checks for black people and one of the core jokes is that it fixed the economy overnight because the people just went out and spent it on crap.

When you give more money to people that already have their needs and luxuries accounted for, they generally save or invest it... and very few investments truly create jobs.

All of this sort of hearkens back to the implicit problems with our tax system. I'd support higher taxes on individual wealth, but I don't support things like taxing corporations more to pay for Government programs. The latter is easier for politicians to get voters to stomach, but it hurts the middle-class and lower-class more than it ends up hurting the executives/company owners.

So true. When I was in college, during the summer I worked for a store that was on an Indian Reservation and when they got their checks from the tribe (they got something like 10K a year) many of them would come in and spend it all in a day or two on electronics (car audio, TVs, computers, gaming systems, etc).
 
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