Politics

[Buster Bluth]

First and foremost:

If I believed in a god, I would pray for you.

I'd have to see what the revisions where.

Then open your browser. They removed the CIA's mentioning of an Al-Aaeda attack. They wanted "act of terrorism" not "terrorist attack." That's basically the difference between a republic and a Republican. Two totally ****ing different things that could, when said by skillful lawyers, deceive the listener. It's not lying if you believe the wrong thing on your own. That's how lawyers win. That's how Washington deceives people.

White House did release all 12 revisions to the House intelligence committee in March.

So the WH released the revisions to Congress, so what exactly are they still hiding.

Who told the CIA to remove all mentions of Al-Qaeda. Who told Susan Rice to go on allllll of the Sunday morning talk shows and deny Al-Qaeda's presence, involvement, and to pin it on a demonstration of a video. Oh, and who the **** told military personnel on stand-by to stand down when they could have assisted Americans in the embassy.

I got a theory that this all about spoon feeding the hardcore right base. Obama did say something very brief today but really he hasn't been all that defensive about it.

On May 19 the debt limit was supposed expire. Now the deficit is actually falling faster than projected and the treasury can play games with the funds. Now the hard core GOP wants Obama to make all these drastic cuts which he said he won't do. So there going to have to pass a moderate/centrist spending package. I think this all a set up to give the right something to bark about, heck their may even be an impeachment from the House, of course no conviction from the Senate. It would give the House republicans cover to vote on a moderate grand bargain type deal because their base will forgive them if they voted to impeach Obama.

Your theory sucks. ABC News dug this up, not Fox News. I'll say it again: the timing of this coming out has nothing to do with Fox News.

So let me get this straight.

Obama never denied that this was an act of violence and that 4 Americans died.

Not just Americans, a ****ing US Ambassador. That's a big deal chief.

He didn't deny it, he downplayed it like a pussy because the election was in the home stretch and he's not an idiot. Put it under the rug and wait for good press to blow it over. Hurricane? Voila!

The big controversy was that Obama initially implied that this was a violent act that escalated out of video demonstration, instead of an Islamic terrorist attack. Right?

No.

Now was anyone harmed by Obama implying it was a demonstration?

Everyone who voted, and the integrity of the State Department and Executive Branch. In a small sense, his own legitimacy.

George W Bush and Dick Cheney said there was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Thousands of Americans died and we blew over a trillion dollars. Where were those weapons of mass destruction? Oh wait we never found them.

Why aren't we outraged about that lie.

You're joking right? Every American without their head up their *** thinks Bush is a clown and despises Cheney (you left out Rumsfeld, perhaps the biggest proponent).

 

[Buster Bluth]

By the way in terms of privacy and wire tapping. I thought I would point out that House Republicans passed this monstrous anti-privacy legislation. Yea the party of civil liberties.

Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Harry Reid has killed it by refusing to have a vote on it plus there was an Obama veto threat. So yea that constitution shredding Democrats protected your right to privacy on the internet.

Two things here.

One, Republicans suck dick. Two, so do Democrats.

Don't let this deceive you. whole CISPA/SOPA deal isn't about defending freedom per se. If it were only freedom versus big business, we wouldn't stand a chance.

This is Hollywood money combating Silicon Valley money. That's what is turning politicians against it, along with the massive outcries from the internet.

The three Representatives in NW Ohio (Lotta (R), Jordan, (R) and Kaptur (D)) all voted in favor of CISPA. They all suck and I will never vote for any of them over this very matter.

 

[dshans]

Let me interject a short note here:
The Minnesota House and Senate have just, in the space of a week, passed what I think of as an equal opportunity bill. The comfort/agony, legal and economic rights of marriage have been (once the guv signs on the dotted line tomorrow) extended to all couples, straight or gay.

This is actually "on topic" in that Obama not long ago voiced his opinion on the issue. There is also a tie to ND in that Alan Page may some day be asked to chime in as a member of the MN Supreme Court.

It's a good day in MN. There should be dancing in the streets tomorrow night. I only hope that one of my gay neighbors offers me a ride if there is.

GO MINNESOTA!!!

 

[phgreek]

Benghazi, IRS, AP Data, Boston Bombing what a mess...we didn't start the fire...

Wheres Billy Joel when you need him...?

...who here is really excited about the IRS, Cyber Security, and the State and Justice Departments. Leadership at its finest right there....

...Cyber to spy, IRS to target enemies per what Cyber finds(although IRS apparently will make up a reason anyway), Justice to make sure you go down...and state to be so effing incompetent that everyone is distracted...this is going so well. We should for sure continue to grow government...because its inefficient and malignant with political motive...how could it go wrong?

A wise man once said in song...It is Time to Clean up our own back Yard.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Benghazi, IRS, AP Data, Boston Bombing what a mess...we didn't start the fire...

Wheres Billy Joel when you need him...?

...who here is really excited about the IRS, Cyber Security, and the State and Justice Departments. Leadership at its finest right there....

...Cyber to spy, IRS to target enemies per what Cyber finds(although IRS apparently will make up a reason anyway), Justice to make sure you go down...and state to be so effing incompetent that everyone is distracted...this is going so well. We should for sure continue to grow government...because its inefficient and malignant with political motive...how could it go wrong?

A wise man once said in song...It is Time to Clean up our own back Yard.

To add to this...

And the IRS is in charge of enforcing Obamacare?!?!?

Holy f***ing sh!t!!!!

We're in big trouble!!!

 

[Cackalacky]

I just want to know when is enough going to be enough for us. What is it going to take? It is evident (to me at least), our current democracy is rigged to favor the wealthy, corporations, and the higher ups of government and is trending more in that direction daily (regardless of party). It is also evident to me there is massive waste and fraud and policies are being taken advantage of by a host of people while we, the workers, the one's who keep the country afloat trying to do the right thing, apathetically watch or type about it on forum.


What is it going to take?

 

[chicago51]

I just want to know when is enough going to be enough for us. What is it going to take? It is evident (to me at least), our current democracy is rigged to favor the wealthy, corporations, and the higher ups of government and is trending more in that direction daily (regardless of party). It is also evident to me there is massive waste and fraud and policies are being taken advantage of by a host of people while we, the workers, the one's who keep the country afloat trying to do the right thing, apathetically watch or type about it on forum.


What is it going to take?

Whati is it going to take? Unfortunately I think it is going to take a huge economic crash that would make this recent one look like child's play.

The corporations, banks, and wall street have brought and paid most of the politicians in both parties.

I think we would need something to happen that was so bad that people would just be so outraged that they would demand something different. It might happen if the debt bubble burst. Not the public or government debt. It is around 100 percent of GDP, not good but we've worse off before. Its the private debt that has exploded to 38 trillion dollars. Plus the toxic financial derivative market which is more than 10x the world GDP is a ticking time bomb waiting to burst. It is only a matter of time before these bets on bets burst. I think the world GDP is like $50 trillion, with $15 trillion coming from the US, while the derivative market is like $700 trillion.

Big Banks and Derivatives: Why Another Financial Crisis Is Inevitable - Forbes

 

[irishpat183]

I'd hate to be Obama this week...LOL

Bengzhi
AP scandal
IRS going after conservative groups

 

[chicago51]

It just occurred to me that it might be better if we had ballet initiative voting capabilities at the federal level.

If an individual or group can get say 2 million signatures one should be able to get legistlation on the national election ballet that the nation would then vote on during election day. This can happen at the state level already in almost every state.

It would give the people a voice. It would work for both sides. There is a good chance conservatives/independents may be able to repeal Obamacare which would upset some liberals but the fact that people have a way to go around the disfunction of Congress I see as a good thing even it means so things I don't like happen as a result.

A vote would at least have to get the majority of the electorate so a non vote would essentially count as a no vote. If people are worried about tyranny of the majority type of a thing, which is a legit concern; then maybe make it were an issue needs both a majority of the popular vote and the popular vote in the majority of states. Or just set a 60% threshold.

 

[Ndaccountant]

It just occurred to me that it might be better if we had ballet initiative voting capabilities at the federal level.

If an individual or group can get say 2 million signatures one should be able to get legistlation on the national election ballet that the people would literally vote on. This can happen at the state level already in almost every state.

It would give the people a voice. It would work for both sides. There is a good chance conservatives/independents may be able to repeal Obamacare which would upset some liberals but the fact that people have a way to go around the disfunction of Congress I see as a good thing even it means so things I don't like happen as a result.

A vote would at least have to get the majority of the electorate so a non vote would essentially count as a no vote. If people are worried about tyranny of the majority type of a thing, which is a legit concern; then maybe make it were an issue needs both a majority of the popular vote and the popular vote in the majority of states. Or just set a 60% threshold.

The people do have a voice in their reps in the house and their senators.

The problem is that the majority of the people in the country just don't care. Until they care, headline politics will reign supreme.

 

[chicago51]

The people do have a voice in their reps in the house and their senators.

The problem is that the majority of the people in the country just don't care. Until they care, headline politics will reign supreme.

I would agree if the Reps and Senators weren't brought and paid for. If the Reps and Senator were really going to be our voices we would not only have to roll back Citicens United but go way way further in changing how elections are financed. Then there is the matter of throwing lobyist out of capital hill, and making it illegal for a politician to take a job with a campaign donor for at least 5 years after leaving office.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I would agree if the Reps and Senators weren't brought and paid for. If the Reps and Senator were really going to be our voices we would not only have to roll back Citicens United but go way way further in changing how elections are financed. Then there is the matter of throwing lobyist out of capital hill, and making it illegal for a politician to take a job with a campaign donor for at least 5 years after leaving office.

If people really cared and took elections seriously, it wouldn't matter how much money was thrown into the ring. They simply cannot get elected without the people. Ultimately, people have to change for the political process to change.

 

[irishpat183]

I would agree if the Reps and Senators weren't brought and paid for. If the Reps and Senator were really going to be our voices we would not only have to roll back Citicens United but go way way further in changing how elections are financed. Then there is the matter of throwing lobyist out of capital hill, and making it illegal for a politician to take a job with a campaign donor for at least 5 years after leaving office.

And we wouldn't have the ACA, Unions...either.

Both of those are largely unpopular.

And Unions are just as bad as CU. If not WORSE because it's forced on it's members.

 

[Cackalacky]

The people do have a voice in their reps in the house and their senators.

The problem is that the majority of the people in the country just don't care. Until they care, headline politics will reign supreme.

You cant be this naive to think your representatives actually listen to you or represents you. They represent their biggest donors. They also are not going to **** off anyone who will give them a place on some board or a high paying lobbying job once they get voted out of office or retire.

Universal background checks, for example, have a 90% approval with the U.S. population. This could not even get passed in the current Congress.

Few if any Wall Street criminals were prosecuted or even tried for the nefarious gambling of our (taxpayer) money and those who tried were stopped.Someone tries to pass a law stating the banks can do the gambling, just not with taxpayer money and it gets filibustered by both parties.

A 38th attempt to repeal the Affordable Healthcare Act was made....

Its obsurd.

 

[Cackalacky]

If people really cared and took elections seriously, it wouldn't matter how much money was thrown into the ring. They simply cannot get elected without the people. Ultimately, people have to change for the political process to change.

So who do think they represent when they are in the office? Those who gave them millions of dollars and expect nothing in return? or the populace who made the vote and contributed relatively little to their campaign.

 

[Ndaccountant]

So who do think they represent when they are in the office? Those who gave them millions of dollars and expect nothing in return? or the populace who made the vote and contributed relatively little to their campaign.

The issue is that the people do nothing about it. If people thought their reps were not acting in their best interest, then they should do something about it. But they don't. Most people probably don't even know who their rep or senators are. Until that changes, nothing else will change. We can complain all we want, but until we demand and enforce accountability, we are left with the status quo.

 

[Cackalacky]

The issue is that the people do nothing about it. If people thought their reps were not acting in their best interest, then they should do something about it. But they don't. Most people probably don't even know who their rep or senators are. Until that changes, nothing else will change. We can complain all we want, but until we demand and enforce accountability, we are left with the status quo.

This is the point of my question above. What is it going to take? We already know that these people don't represent us. We already know the government is one big hot mess and corrupt by money. Illegally obtained information from warrant less wiretaps, egregious violations of the Constitution, american citizens being killed by drones, robbing paul to pay peter, manipulation of the global interest rates, privatizing profits but making the public responsible for the fallouts. What else is it gonna take? Who is going to hold them accountable? Is it gonna take 175 Million people descending on Washington in person? Elections obviously are not working. It takes money and promises just to make it to congress or the white house.

This is flat out maddening.

 

[Emcee77]

I would agree if the Reps and Senators weren't brought and paid for. If the Reps and Senator were really going to be our voices we would not only have to roll back Citicens United but go way way further in changing how elections are financed. Then there is the matter of throwing lobyist out of capital hill, and making it illegal for a politician to take a job with a campaign donor for at least 5 years after leaving office.

And, because of Citizens United, the voters' power to vote them out is neutralized, because the same donors who have "bought and paid for" the elected reps also have limitless power (or power limited only by their funds) to influence voters' thinking via political ads and propaganda such as the Hilary film at issue in Citizens United. The system is sick. It's very discouraging.

 

[chicago51]

And we wouldn't have the ACA, Unions...either.

Both of those are largely unpopular.

And Unions are just as bad as CU. If not WORSE because it's forced on it's members.

Unions have nothing to with legistlation. I guess you could pass legistlation that made union membership a crime but reality wise people choose to join unions. In some cases they may get strong armed but for the most part it is a choice.

Unions have done alot of good over history, its not to say some have gone to have too far. We have come a long way from with our working standards largely because unions refused to put up with substandard conditions during the heart of the industrial revolution.

In places like Bangladesh you got crap like this going on:


Sweatshop in Bangladesh recently collapsed:

They work in crowded conditions like this:

For what it is worth much of GAP and Walmart's clothing comes from Bangladesh.

Also is it possible that non union employees are not being paid enough, rather than union employees getting overpaid?

 

[chicago51]

You cant be this naive to think your representatives actually listen to you or represents you. They represent their biggest donors. They also are not going to **** off anyone who will give them a place on some board or a high paying lobbying job once they get voted out of office or retire.

Universal background checks, for example, have a 90% approval with the U.S. population. This could not even get passed in the current Congress.

Few if any Wall Street criminals were prosecuted or even tried for the nefarious gambling of our (taxpayer) money and those who tried were stopped.Someone tries to pass a law stating the banks can do the gambling, just not with taxpayer money and it gets filibustered by both parties.

A 38th attempt to repeal the Affordable Healthcare Act was made....

Its obsurd.

Eric Holder is as weak kneed of an Autorney General as they come. For all the things I like about Obama as he has passed some good middle class tax credits, and legistlation but his economic advisory is littered with people from Wall Street. It is pretty disgusting, and again this coming from someone who likes the President.

 

[irishpat183]

You cant be this naive to think your representatives actually listen to you or represents you. They represent their biggest donors. They also are not going to **** off anyone who will give them a place on some board or a high paying lobbying job once they get voted out of office or retire.

Universal background checks, for example, have a 90% approval with the U.S. population. This could not even get passed in the current Congress.

Few if any Wall Street criminals were prosecuted or even tried for the nefarious gambling of our (taxpayer) money and those who tried were stopped.Someone tries to pass a law stating the banks can do the gambling, just not with taxpayer money and it gets filibustered by both parties.

A 38th attempt to repeal the Affordable Healthcare Act was made....

Its obsurd.

I agree with the first bold.....Too much money in politics. Term limits and get rid of pensions for politicans. Your income should be linked to the average income in your area. People don't work in your district? You don't get paid.

And we already have background checks. And it's totally misleading to say 90% of our pop agrees on that. They don't. Just like the left's ridiculous "40% don't have a background check" figure, that's totally a lie.

And the ACA was very unpopular with the public...around 65% didn't want it. It should be repealed. Especially after the true numbers are coming out. Down the road, this will destroy Obama's legacy....

Insurers predict 100%-400% Obamacare rate explosion | WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[irishpat183]

Eric Holder is as weak kneed of an Autorney General as they come. For all the things I like about Obama as he has passed some good middle class tax credits, and legistlation but his economic advisory is littered with people from Wall Street. It is pretty disgusting, and again this coming from someone who likes the President.

He should join them in prison...

 

[phgreek]

I'm with the accountant...until people engage on a level like our grandfathers (or in some cases great grandfathers) where they saw it as a duty which came with citizenship to be informed and engaged...we are screwed. People will always use whatever leverage is at their disposal to influence things...it takes politicians with character to stop it...in order to get politicians with character folks need to pay attention, and get after their representation...

This is why everyone should be particularly offended by the conduct of the IRS who actually sought to punish those trying to be involved...While I'm certainly not trying to reduce the import of loss of life...the thing terrorism does in effect is render people paralyzed to think, act, express themselves ...I give you the impact of a rogue IRS.

No the entire IRS isn't bad...but this type of conduct needs to be met with SEVERE punishment as the power the IRS wields makes this an unforgivable act which can undermine who we are.

 

[irishpat183]

Unions have nothing to with legistlation. I guess you could pass legistlation that made union membership a crime but reality wise people choose to join unions. In some cases they may get strong armed but for the most part it is a choice.

Unions have done alot of good over history, its not to say some have gone to have too far. We have come a long way from with our working standards largely because unions refused to put up with substandard conditions during the heart of the industrial revolution.

In places like Bangladesh you got crap like this going on:


Sweatshop in Bangladesh recently collapsed:

They work in crowded conditions like this:

For what it is worth much of GAP and Walmart's clothing comes from Bangladesh.

Also is it possible that non union employees are not being paid enough, rather than union employees getting overpaid?

You are truly outta your mind. Big labor has as much influence on legislation as any other corporation.


And telling someone it's "wise to join a union" is different than forcing them too (which many do). And Unions no longer give a damn about their members...they're just another corporation, like the ones that the left attack.

Union bosses are THE SAME as any greedy CEO that you demonize.


Do you know what a union member makes (benefits, time off, pay)?? Paid too little?!?! Like WHO? Name WHO (specifically) makes too little? I hear that argument all the time. Name them.

 

[irishpat183]

And, because of Citizens United, the voters' power to vote them out is neutralized, because the same donors who have "bought and paid for" the elected reps also have limitless power (or power limited only by their funds) to influence voters' thinking via political ads and propaganda such as the Hilary film at issue in Citizens United. The system is sick. It's very discouraging.

PEOPLE ARE DYING IN THE STREETS!! THEY DON"T HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE!


GUNS ARE KILLING MILLIONS OF CHILDREN!!


MOTHER EARTH IS DYING! STOP DRILLING!! THE EARTH WILL MELT!


(nothing beats the "sob story" propaganda..cornered by the left)

 

[chicago51]

I agree with the first bold.....Too much money in politics. Term limits and get rid of pensions for politicans. Your income should be linked to the average income in your area. People don't work in your district? You don't get paid.

And we already have background checks. And it's totally misleading to say 90% of our pop agrees on that. They don't. Just like the left's ridiculous "40% don't have a background check" figure, that's totally a lie.

And the ACA was very unpopular with the public...around 65% didn't want it. It should be repealed. Especially after the true numbers are coming out. Down the road, this will destroy Obama's legacy....

Insurers predict 100%-400% Obamacare rate explosion | WashingtonExaminer.com

ACA depending on implimentation could be a train wreck. I'm glad we did something though because where we are and having so many not able to get essential care is trajedy considering the nations wealth.

I said this yesterday instead of repealing Obamacare and looking like heartless jerks conservatives that have morality should instead put out a plan to replace it. Instead of going back to the system where the poor and the sick get screwed over. What kind of sick system lets you get denied for pre-existing conditions and exhaust life time maximums?

A conservative plan would be to take all the Obamacare taxes and distribute it to the states and allow the states to use those funds for their own health care plan. A state can either do a state single payer, a Romneycare type plan like they already have in MA, or they simply take the funds and give their residents health care vouchers to help pay for the premiums. It can be argued that each state would probably be able to do a better job serving its own unique needs better than the federal government. As far as the ACA goes I am surprised more states didn't take control of their own exchanges because they could probably do a better job than the federal government could.

 

[chicago51]

PEOPLE ARE DYING IN THE STREETS!! THEY DON"T HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE!


GUNS ARE KILLING MILLIONS OF CHILDREN!!


MOTHER EARTH IS DYING! STOP DRILLING!! THE EARTH WILL MELT!


(nothing beats the "sob story" propaganda..cornered by the left)

Pat you own a small business correct?

If so I'm sure you don't want the government messing around with your business?

I think we agree that every business has responsibility to make sure their working conditions are safe, and they don't intentionally mislead their customers but other than that government regulation is overkill.

My question to you is how do you expect government to stay out of business when you got corporations financing and lobbying the government to do exactly the opposite? Corporations want the government to over-regulate because regulations hurt the small business more than it hurts them and it allows for monopollies and olligarchies.

I can't for the life of me see how a true conservative against government regulation wouldn't want a major overhaul of campaign financing. How do expect government to stay out of business when business won't stay out of government?

 

[irishpat183]

ACA depending on implimentation could be a train wreck. I'm glad we did something though because where we are and having so many not able to get essential care is trajedy considering the nations wealth.


I said this yesterday instead of repealing Obamacare and looking like heartless jerks conservatives that have morality put out a plan to replace it. Instead of going back to the system where the poor and the sick get screwed over. What kind of sick system lets you get denied for pre-existing conditions and exhaust life time maximums.

A conservative plan would be to take all the Obamacare taxes and distribute it to the states and allow the states to use those funds for their own health care plan. A state can either do a state single payer, a Romneycare type plan like they already have in MA, or they simply take the funds and give their residents health care vouchers to help pay for the premiums. It can be argued that each state would probably be able to do a better job serving its own unique needs better than the federal government. As far as the ACA goes I am surprised more states didn't take control of their own exchanges because they could probably do a better job than the federal government could.

What is "so many"?? Because nearly 90% of our population is covered already. So lets collapse the system because of 10%? I was for REFORM. But the ACA went too far. And that is why it will fail, miserably.

Allowing government to get rid of private insurance and put us all in lines and in front of "panels" to decide what's best for us.


And better to look like heartless jerks, than morons that didn't bother to do the due diligence on the plan that you pushed through without the public support....


And I agree with you on the state issue. I'll shake your hand on that one. Local and state governments are far more efficent at actually serving the people.

 

[irishpat183]

Pat you own a small business correct?

If so I'm sure you don't want the government messing around with your business?

I think we agree that every business has responsibility to make sure their working conditions are safe, and they don't intentionally mislead their customers but other than that government regulation is overkill.

My question to you is how do you expect government to stay out of business when you got corporations financing and lobbying the government to do exactly the opposite? Corporations want the government to over-regulate because regulations hurt the small business more than it hurts them and it allows for monopollies and olligarchies.

I can't for the life of me see how a true conservative against government regulation wouldn't want a major overhaul of campaign financing. How do expect government to stay out of business when business won't stay out of government?

Working conditions, over here, are safe (are you kidding?). And you could argue that no matter how safe the workplace is, there will still be accidents. No amount of legislation can prevent accidents or stupidity.

 

[chicago51]

The more I hear about it the more I actually have legitimate concerns about the IRS, and the AP phone record incident.

Obama Should Ask Holder to Resign - The Daily Beast

I agree with this article from The Daily Beast. This time I'm not going to give Obama the benefit of the doubt as unlike Benghazi I don't see this as partisan nonsense.

Obama needs to crack some heads at the IRS. Most importantly he needs to ask Eric Holder to resign.

By the way it is time to repeal the Patriot Act because this a problem that preceded and goes far beyond President Obama.