Politics

[johnnykillz]

The middle class is not a sustainable commodity anymore. Its being eroded and eaten away.

A flourishing middle class is the foundation for a good democracy.

We are not even a republic.

But a corporatocracy we are.

 

[Ndaccountant]

The middle class is not a sustainable commodity anymore. Its being eroded and eaten away.

Excellent viewpoint on why the middle class is eroding....

Charles Murray on the New American Divide - WSJ.com

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

The middle class is not a sustainable commodity anymore. Its being eroded and eaten away.

I agree. Its terrible.

 

[tadman95]

You cannot ignore lifetime welfare users.

Nor can you ignore lifetime corporate crooks.

But, which is the lesser of the evils?

Is there one? Without any data I would bet corporate welfare is the costliest.

 

[BobD]

And on to page 3 we go...

Next topic: welfare.

How does one feel about EBT for lobster, and steak?
And beer on a separate ticket.

I support drug testing and 20 hours of community service per week for all welfare recipients.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Is there one? Without any data I would bet corporate welfare is the costliest.

keeping with thread.....curious as to why u think that

 

[johnnykillz]

Excellent viewpoint on why the middle class is eroding....

Charles Murray on the New American Divide - WSJ.com

Awesome read and thank-you.

I would have appreciated a more defined conclusion for fixing the problem.

Wouldn't we all...

 

[tadman95]

keeping with thread.....curious as to why u think that

Pure guess with a sense of scale applied I guess. It also depends on the definition of corporate welfare which is a discussion in an of itself. Everyone knows the money given to oil companies. There are many others; subsidies to corporate farms, special tax incentives given to companies to move production off shore, loosened regulations to allow companies to operate in manners not necessarily in the public's best interest but are claimed by the companies as needed by the company to survive, etc....

There are so many examples it's mind boggling and I believe is more than the $200,000,000 spent on welfare and housing in 2012.

Like I said, just an opinion.

I've always been intrigued by the "less government" argument when so many corporations have their hand out to the government.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I've always been intrigued by the "less government" argument when so many corporations have their hand out to the government.

Well, you have to put yourself in the corporations shoes. Their job is to provide returns to the shareholders. If the government is willing to shell out mega $$$, why wouldn't they accept it?

I personally am not convinced that corporations are the problem. Are they perfect? Hell no. After all, humans run them. But, I would hate to see what this world would look like without them. I must admit though, I am probably biased since I am employed by a "mega corporation".

 

[Ndaccountant]

Awesome read and thank-you.

I would have appreciated a more defined conclusion for fixing the problem.

Wouldn't we all...

As would I. However, with any major issue, the first step is identifying it and I think he hit the nail on the head.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Mitt romney used to be closer to Clinton than Bush Jr., but he's had to pander to the extreme right to get to the nomination.

So because he's had to dance for the crowd you think he'd act that way in the Oval Office?! hahahaha lolololol

I will say that I do like healthy discussion. I'm one who believes that we are all on the same team, but have different feelings on how to get where we want to go to better our country.

You should probably know that I'm in City & Regional Planning and know as much or more than anyone on this board about the state of our country's infrastructure. It's not in "deplorable condition," but what we have done is sprawl and sprawl and sprawl without realizing the true costs of it. Do you know our many f*cking highways we've built?!

Throwing more money at the problem isn't a solution, and it sure as hell isn't leadership. It's nothing more than a copout. Federal funding for highways must end so that states must finally come to the realization that this suburban development pattern America was in love with from 1954-~2000 is killing us.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I agree. Its terrible.

Do you have any idea what Obama's energy policy is going to do to the middle class??? When it comes to the erosion of the middle class, you haven't seen nothing yet.

 

[phork]

Well, you have to put yourself in the corporations shoes. Their job is to provide returns to the shareholders. If the government is willing to shell out mega $$$, why wouldn't they accept it?

I personally am not convinced that corporations are the problem. Are they perfect? Hell no. After all, humans run them. But, I would hate to see what this world would look like without them. I must admit though, I am probably biased since I am employed by a "mega corporation".

And thats the problem, somewhat. The most infamous lawsuit in regards to this is Dodge v. Ford Motor Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ruling:

The Court held that a business corporation is organized primarily for the profit of the stockholders, as opposed to the community or its employees. The discretion of the directors is to be exercised in the choice of means to attain that end, and does not extend to the reduction of profits or the nondistribution of profits among stockholders in order to benefit the public, making the profits of the stockholders incidental thereto.

Because this company was in business for profit, Ford could not turn it into a charity. This was compared to a spoilation of the company's assets. The court therefore upheld the order of the trial court requiring that directors declare an extra dividend of $39 million.

I find that bolded statement to be almost nauseating. Vehicle price going down, employee wage going up, everyone wins. Err except in this case.

 

[irishog77]

And all this time I thought this country was ran by a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.

So who's in this Pentavirate?
The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"

"Scoop of chocolate, scoop of vanilla....Stop wasting my time."
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TPMS6tGOACo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"Heeead...pants...now!"

 

[phork]

So because he's had to dance for the crowd you think he'd act that way in the Oval Office?! hahahaha lolololol



You should probably know that I'm in City & Regional Planning and know as much or more than anyone on this board about the state of our country's infrastructure. It's not in "deplorable condition." What we have done is sprawl and sprawl and sprawl without realizing the true costs of it. Do you know our many f*cking highways we've built?!

Throwing more money at the problem isn't a solution, and it sure as hell isn't leadership. It's nothing more than a copout. Federal funding for highways must end so that states must finally come to the realization that this suburban development pattern America was in love with from 1954-~2000 is killing us.

Yah because that is going to help. How many states are near or at bankruptcy, or headed there? This would push them over the brink for fun. Now obviously you are more educated on this topic than I, but I don't see that as a solution. Right now anyways.
PS: You haven't been to Michigan lately, have you? I could literally drive from Detroit to Toledo blindfolded and tell you when we hit the Ohio border. I75 is a disaster in Michigan.

 

[Ndaccountant]

And thats the problem, somewhat. The most infamous lawsuit in regards to this is Dodge v. Ford Motor Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ruling:



I find that bolded statement to be almost nauseating. Vehicle price going down, employee wage going up, everyone wins. Err except in this case.

Famous case indeed although much has changed over the years. Btw, profit and community improvement are not mutually exlusive.

 

[RuntheBall]

Where's the Ralph Nader option?

 

[BeauBenken]

Blank post? Huh?

As for me, I don't think I'm going to vote.

It's like picking between a douche and a turd sandwich...

 

[johnnykillz]

I hope Hilary Clinton steps up as Indy to blow Obama off the seat.

Nader baby!

Where's the Ralph Nader option?

Page 1. Lol.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Yah because that is going to help. How many states are near or at bankruptcy, or headed there? This would push them over the brink for fun. Now obviously you are more educated on this topic than I, but I don't see that as a solution. Right now anyways.
PS: You haven't been to Michigan lately, have you? I could literally drive from Detroit to Toledo blindfolded and tell you when we hit the Ohio border. I75 is a disaster in Michigan.

I misspoke. Federal funding for highways should be capped.

Look at it this way: the average cost for just a interstate exchange is $250mil. Go to Google Earth, look at how many times near your city a yellow line touches a yellow line. That's $250mil gonezo. The interstates have been a disaster for transportation funding, and the gas tax receipts are being destroyed by the few efficient vehicles (rightfully so).

America simply cannot continue to be a country dominated by highways. It is literally killing the country.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I should note, this has very little to do with the election. I actually like some of Obama's transportation policies, but the issue here is the "jobs bill," and my opinion is that those jobs aren't truly credible because we're borrowing money to pay for them. That is not prosperity. The government needs to be in the business of creating an environment for businesses to responsibly thrive; Obama has failed miserably at that.

 

[Ben E.]

A douche and a turd sandwich again...awesome!

 

[Redbar]

Obama just paid off his own student loans a few years ago. He is not the "privileged class" you portray him as.

Romney was a venture capitalist. He didn't build companies, he bought them. Then would proceed to tear them apart and put their employees out of work. For instance, the GST/Armco merger put 750 people out of work and the company eventually went bankrupt. Bain Capital walked away with a $58 million profit, pulled directly from the profits of the company as they went into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, they were underfunding their pension which was sugar on top for all of those people they laid off. They got to lose their jobs and their retirement. Savvy businessman, indeed.

I wouldn't vote for Romney regardless of his party, mostly because I don't want the Mormon church running our country. Which is exactly what will happen.

Buster, for a young dude, you are one worked up fella. Relax a little bit, homie. Otherwise you are going to have some serious health issues as you get older. I know this from experience.

+1
Telling me I gotta spread it around Wooly, but nice post.

 

[Redbar]

Could never vote for Romney. Politics is largely drama. Old Man Mike said follow the money...very true in this case especially, that is where the power lies that is where the story begins. Citizens United is an affront to our so called democracy, and some of those justices and other corporatist should have their citizenship revoked.

 

[CHIDomer9]

Borrowing more hundreds of billions of dollars to overpay union construction crews to build roads and bridges is not the path to prosperity. Those are not legitimate jobs that add worth to the country. How do you not get that?

I would prefer high speed rail and bridges #amiright

 

[Buster Bluth]

I would prefer high speed rail and bridges #amiright

HSR would be great. I'm not saying that we pull the plug on freeways altogether, that'd be insane.

HSR hubs are a damn necessity though. If you want to throw money at a project, at least let it be sustainable. HSR doesn't have to have its lanes widened as more and more people move further into the countryside.

In the 1970's the government thought that it would be good to knock down cities and build futuristic neighborhoods, and it failed miserably. None of it was built for the human scale, it was build for the car and thus died. Today way have learned the lesson and are thankfully turning things around in cities. America needs to rediscover urbanism again though.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

I should note, this has very little to do with the election. I actually like some of Obama's transportation policies, but the issue here is the "jobs bill," and my opinion is that those jobs aren't truly credible because we're borrowing money to pay for them. That is not prosperity. The government needs to be in the business of creating an environment for businesses to responsibly thrive; Obama has failed miserably at that.

Exactly. The job of government is to create an atmosphere businesses and consumers can thrive in. Government jobs do not help that atmosphere.

I used to be really into politics in high school, but the more economics classes I took in college the more I have come to completely hating the government and career politicians. We need business men running the country not more career politicians or community organizers.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

High Speed Rail does not work.

STOP the TUNNEL!: £250m government bailout for failed high-speed rail in Europe

If it was a viable, sustainable option, someone in the private sector would invest in it to make money.

 

[CHIDomer9]

I should note, this has very little to do with the election. I actually like some of Obama's transportation policies, but the issue here is the "jobs bill," and my opinion is that those jobs aren't truly credible because we're borrowing money to pay for them. That is not prosperity. The government needs to be in the business of creating an environment for businesses to responsibly thrive; Obama has failed miserably at that.

Yeah, they're really living hand to mouth.
The 2011 Fortune 500: The Big Boys Rack Up Record-Setting Profits - DailyFinance

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Yeah, they're really living hand to mouth.
The 2011 Fortune 500: The Big Boys Rack Up Record-Setting Profits - DailyFinance

You know why they are racking up record profits? It is because the economic future of our country is in so much doubt and NO ONE knows where we are headed, they are not investing or expanding their businesses by hiring. Instead they are cutting costs, and getting their businesses down to the bare bone, and protecting their own asses in case of another financial meltdown.