Politics

[BobD]

Wow, great conversation so far. Some of you have brought up great points for me to think about.

I am a little suprised at the poll results so far, as I mentioned, I didn't think it would be this close.

Buster, did you see my question to you about the internet?

 

[IrishInFl]

Everyone should just go to electoral-vote.com . If you want to know who will when the presidential election, they are always correct. in 2004 they predicted Bush and in 2008 they predicted Obama (with only one state incorrect, Indiana).

 

[NDBoiler]

Rubio seems to have lost the "100% guaranteed to be VP" notion he had a few months ago.

I'd say people like Rob Portman, Bobby Jindal, Mitch Daniels, and Chris Christie are in the mix too. I personally think he'll pick Portman to help win Ohio. Ohio is interesting in that it is rebounding very strongly from the recession...but little of it has to do with Obama. But a good economy favors him, so it could go either way. Ohioans are finally starting to like GOP Gov Kasich, so that will play into it.

Chris Christie would be absolutely epic on the campaign trail. He's wipe the floor with this White House.

Greetings from Indiana, Buster.

Mitch has indicated he doesn't plan on being involved this election as a VP candidate.

However, if you want to talk about someone who gets efficiency in govt, he is definitely the man.

 

[NDBoiler]

Everyone should just go to electoral-vote.com . If you want to know who will when the presidential election, they are always correct. in 2004 they predicted Bush and in 2008 they predicted Obama (with only one state incorrect, Indiana).

So 2 out of 40+ presidential elections is "always correct"?? Are you a professional statistician, or do you just play one on TV? Or maybe you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night? grin:

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Buster, did you see my question to you about the internet?

I did. I'll answer briefly as I'm running off to my calc final (for which I've been up all night haha)...

You are correct, but it's not anything that Karl Marx did not predict. Technology replaces human beings and has done serious damage to brick and mortar stores...or at least the ones who don't evolve.

But it also created countless jobs of web designers, software programmers, computer engineers, and graphic designers. It connected businesses that would never have ever been connected before the internet. It opened up entire new markets; it's the beauty of capitalism. Almost everyone's life is better post-internet than before it.

While there are positives an negatives, the important thing to keep in mind is that it is unescapable. The change will happen. The market will globalize. Jobs will become outdated. There's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

...I'll really answer it later tonight (after I sleep haha) or tomorrow.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Wanted to mention something on this whole Europe thing since people have brought up a few times.

It's not that Greece or Spain going bankrupt by themselves would bring down the house. It is much bigger than that.

If Greece and Spain default, it calls into question the solvency of other major countires, speficially in the EU. If that becomes an issue, we are fooked. Remember the G10 has over $70t, yes t = trillion, in debt. However, that debt represents collateral for $700T in derivitives. Can we say banking crisis?

Yes, those pesky derivitives are the problem again and will continue to be the problem for many many years.

 

[IrishInFl]

So 2 out of 40+ presidential elections is "always correct"?? Are you a professional statistician, or do you just play one on TV? Or maybe you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night? grin:

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Well, considering the website hasn't been up for the entirety of this countries establishment, nor accurate polling, I'd say that it is pretty damn correct. If you don't like it, too bad.

 

[RDU Irish]

Losers don't make policy.

People will say whatever is necessary to win. Look at his actions and you'd see far fewer flips. Remember Obama's "close Guantanamo" promise? What about promising to read the budget line by line?



lol wut

Name the best Presidents of the 20th century, many of them were loaded. Kennedy was worth 400% of what Romney is. Both of the Roosevelts were rolling in cash. Hell most of the Founding Fathers were rich mofo's themselves. This belief is nothing short of asinine.

And that's not to say that Obama isn't rich or get it. He went to Ivy League schools, he went to a high school which has a tuition of $19,000/yr this year. He had been a part of the privileged class for a loooong time. You think Obama "gets it" when he's hosting $40,000/plate fundraisers? That's not so much a knock on Obama not "getting it," just the idea that rich guys can't get it at all.

I'm voting for the guy with a proven track record of success. A guy who has built companies to compete globally, a guy who has managed corporations and organizations from failure to success, and has solved huge budget crisis.



"Intellectuals" from some grand ivory tower are the ones who don't get it! The guys who build businesses and govern states get it!

Intellectuals don't know a g*d damn thing about how economies function. They come up with ideas in classrooms and try to impose them on millions of people. That's the f*cking problem with the federal government.

Just started working through this thread. I can't rep you til I spread it around Buster but let's just say I bet I agree with 95% of your posts that I will be reading in the next ten minutes.

 

[woolybug25]

I'll say it again, just to be clear. If anybody believes that Romney "built companies", I urge to research Venture Capitalism and in particularly, Leveraged Buyouts.

Like him or dislike him, but I am finding the whole "job creator" or "Business Manager" arguments comical.

Romney is a lot closer to Gordon Gecko than he is to Dale Carnegie.

 

[BobD]

Just MHO but Mr and Mrs Welch had the first part of Jack Welch's name right : )

Sorry but I think that man is a douche. He's like the Dr Phil of business......say the obvious and everyone applaudes.

He destroyed what GE could have been, profited HUGE and eliminated thousands of future American jobs.

Six Sigma = Fail (Those that disagree please find one compnay that uses it that hasn't been passed up and blown away by others that don't use it)

I've never understood what people see in him and fail to see in him.

 

[RDU Irish]

I agree that sacrifices must be made by all. That includes the wealthiest of the wealthy having their taxes going up to what they were in 1999. Also, the big oil subsidies need to be cut (although I'm sure they would greedily pass it on to us.) They are the wealthiest businesses in the county and don't need the money. Small businesses could use that money to grow their businesses and employ more people.

http://www.allamericanblogger.com/15382/chart-shows-exxon-profits-per-gallon-of-gas-vs-taxes-collected-per-gallon/

I've seen Exxon's profit per gallon is six cents, not two per gallon. Either way, government is the greedy pig here. Myth = busted. Pretty miraculous we can fuel our cars for less per gallon than the milk we buy.

Oh and a few links to consider about "wealthy and greedy corporations." Guess what, they have options and are not afraid to use them.

Ireland-bound Eaton is latest to end U.S. corporate citizenship | Reuters

Facebook Co-Founder Saverin Gives Up U.S. Citizenship Before IPO - Bloomberg

 

[RDU Irish]

Maybe this will change your opinion on that.....

http://cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/FRStats/PresidentialVoteOnly.pdf

There will be no changing of minds in political arguments!!!!

I was about to respond anecdotally but glad you took the statistical route. JFK was one heck of a Republican no?

 

[woolybug25]

Just MHO but Mr and Mrs Welch had the first part of Jack Welch's name right : )

Sorry but I think that man is a douche. He's like the Dr Phil of business......say the obvious and everyone applaudes.

He destroyed what GE could have been, profited HUGE and eliminated thousands of future American jobs.

As a human being, Welch is a total jerk... but GE grew 4000% over his tenure as CEO. He may not be able to take all of the credit for it, but he certainly deserves some for it.

Six Sigma = Fail (Those that disagree please find one compnay that uses it that hasn't been passed up and blown away by others that don't use it)

- Agilent
- Amazon
- Chevron
- Cintas
- Computer Sciences Corp
- John Deere
- Dell
- DOW
- DuPont
- Gieco
- GE
- Heinz
- Honeywell
- LG Group
- Lockhead Martin
- Merrill Lynch
- PepsiCo
- Siemens
- Hertz
- Staples
- Trane
- Target Corp
- McGraw Hill
- Toshiba
- Whirlpool
- Texas Instruments

I'm not a "lean and mean" six-sigma nerd or anything, but there are a lot of successful companies that utilize it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

As a human being, Welch is a total jerk... but GE grew 4000% over his tenure as CEO. He may not be able to take all of the credit for it, but he certainly deserves some for it.



- Agilent
- Amazon
- Chevron
- Cintas
- Computer Sciences Corp
- John Deere
- Dell
- DOW
- DuPont
- Gieco
- GE
- Heinz
- Honeywell
- LG Group
- Lockhead Martin
- Merrill Lynch
- PepsiCo
- Siemens
- Hertz
- Staples
- Trane
- Target Corp
- McGraw Hill
- Toshiba
- Whirlpool
- Texas Instruments

I'm not a "lean and mean" six-sigma nerd or anything, but there are a lot of successful companies that utilize it.

Thanks for posting his. I was about to follow up. I don't have the time now to do it, but I will just say that like any tool, Six Sigma is incredibly effective when used correctly. It shouldn't be the only tool in the box, but it's a great one to have.

 

[NDBoiler]

Well, considering the website hasn't been up for the entirety of this countries establishment, nor accurate polling, I'd say that it is pretty damn correct. If you don't like it, too bad.

FL,

I was referring to the implication in your wording, i.e. 2 elections are too small of a sample size to label it authoritatively as "always correct". That to me implied that every election since the first has been correctly predicted by the website, knowing full well that it did not exist at that first election. Perhaps it's a better example of how the written word can be misinterpreted or viewed in multiple different ways based on how it is read by an individual.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

My problem with Obama is that he's not actually good at anything. There's nothing to redeem his flaws.

At bottom, he makes bad decisions. The Gulf Moratorium, Keystone Pipeline, the Stimulus, Cash for Clunkers, Obamacare -- these were all awful. He can't even decide where to try Khalid Sheik Muhammad.

And the kicker is that he's like my wife -- he simply can't stop spending money.

Now many presidents do dumb things such as Watergate or Katrina or Iran-Contra, but with Obama there's nothing good to balance the equation.

 

[RDU Irish]

I misspoke. Federal funding for highways should be capped.

Look at it this way: the average cost for just a interstate exchange is $250mil. Go to Google Earth, look at how many times near your city a yellow line touches a yellow line. That's $250mil gonezo. The interstates have been a disaster for transportation funding, and the gas tax receipts are being destroyed by the few efficient vehicles (rightfully so).

America simply cannot continue to be a country dominated by highways. It is literally killing the country.

And here is the 5% I disagree on. Source please for interchange cost? How much of that is land acquisition? What is the cost per mile to construct a road new road versus repairing an exsisting one? How much is the surrounding land appreciated due to knew commercial value? Don't see many shopping centers, distribution centers, or other commercial centers placed on rail lines.

 

[NDBoiler]

My problem with Obama is that he's not actually good at anything. There's nothing to redeem his flaws.

At bottom, he makes bad decisions. The Gulf Moratorium, Keystone Pipeline, the Stimulus, Cash for Clunkers, Obamacare -- these were all awful. He can't even decide where to try Khalid Sheik Muhammad.

And the kicker is that he's like my wife -- he simply can't stop spending money.

Now many presidents do dumb things such as Watergate or Katrina or Iran-Contra, but with Obama there's nothing good to balance the equation.

But be got Bin *****, that counts for soemthing, right?

 

[PerthDomer]

Review & Outlook: The Other GM Bailout - WSJ.com

If you want an example of corporate welfare here it is.

The GM bailout was just a horrible move. Furthermore, when a company goes to bankruptcy it does not just shut down and everyone loses their job. GMs lines would have been put up for auction, and they would have paid off their debts. Many of the old workers would have worked under new ownership, and a smaller GM may have emerged. Now GM will never pay off the real dollar value of what the government gave it.

Furthermore, the way I look at private equity is this. They are the fungus of the economy. Their role is to make real value out of dead and dying organizations. And Romney did fabulously well at this. Many corporations died, but some became smashing successes due to his work. I wouldn't think most business owners gained much knowledge needed to be president from their jobs, but the nature of Romney's business makes him especially suited to fixing bloated Bureaucracies. Just ask the Salt Lake City Olympics.

 

[rock_knutne]

LOL at this thread. Who cares about this election, regardless of who wins, we will continue to get screwed by the government........liberal or conservative!

That said, I will probably vote for the lesser of two evils which IMO is Obama.

Also, you want this economy to come back and America's reputation of being the best restored? Start producing (screw China!), rebuild our infrastructure and invest in our youth by providing them education that blows other countries away.

 

[woolybug25]

Review & Outlook: The Other GM Bailout - WSJ.com

If you want an example of corporate welfare here it is.

The GM bailout was just a horrible move. Furthermore, when a company goes to bankruptcy it does not just shut down and everyone loses their job. GMs lines would have been put up for auction, and they would have paid off their debts. Many of the old workers would have worked under new ownership, and a smaller GM may have emerged. Now GM will never pay off the real dollar value of what the government gave it.

Furthermore, the way I look at private equity is this. They are the fungus of the economy. Their role is to make real value out of dead and dying organizations. And Romney did fabulously well at this. Many corporations died, but some became smashing successes due to his work. I wouldn't think most business owners gained much knowledge needed to be president from their jobs, but the nature of Romney's business makes him especially suited to fixing bloated Bureaucracies. Just ask the Salt Lake City Olympics.

haha, Romney didn't care one bit if the companies Bain invested in survived. It was all about ROI, that's why Bain focused on Leveraged Buyouts all through the 90's. It was simply easier to leverage a company's assets and cashflows in order to rape their retained earnings for profit. Training management, investing in infrastructure and changing philosophies are too time consuming and short term expensive. Bain wasn't in the business of transforming business under Romney. They were in the leveraged buyout business. They were corporate sharks. Many of the companies they dealt with were not in financial jeopardy until Romney showed up, ready to pillage their retained earnings for Bain.

Some of you dudes don't know the first thing about Venture Capitalist. You can argue that you don't care about him breaking up companies because he was serving Bain's shareholders best financial interests. But let's quit with the "he helped businesses thrive" bs. He helped Bain thrive.

 

[RDU Irish]

A Pizza CEO and a US Rep were your two horses in the race? Come on man those were two baaad candidates. hahah

When I'm looking at a President I want to see successful executive leadership. I'd have trouble voting for someone who hasn't been at least a governor.

I think Romney is the most qualified person to run for President since George HW. Hands down, he was the best candidate for this group.

I'm a big fan of many governors:

Bobby Jindal (Gov of Louisiana) - Rhodes Scholar, just a brilliant person with great experience in health care reform.

Chris Christie (Gov of New Jersey) - his reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt with his demeanor. I love it.

John Kasich (Gov of Ohio) - We are lucky to have him. He is a little too far right for my liking, but his business positives outweigh his negatives. He's a job creator, big time.

Mitch Daniels (Gov of Indiana) - I admit I don't know enough about him, but what I do hear I have liked so far.

You missed Scott Walker. That guy should be cloned and put in all government positions on the planet.

 

[PerthDomer]

The name of the game for VPs is to not hurt the nominee. Walker A)Would drive up democratic turnout and B) Carries the risk of being indicted in the John Doe scandal. You go for someone who's clean as the driven snow with no skeletons in his closet.

The point of business isn't to help the economy out. It's to maximize shareholder value. It just so happens that the end result of what Bain did was good for everyone else. The point is, Romney learned a hell of a lot about how the economy works at Bain, and a lot about how to build and lead effective teams. This knowledge gives him a unique insight into the workings of the economy that would help him as president.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Also, you want this economy to come back and America's reputation of being the best restored? Start producing (screw China!), rebuild our infrastructure and invest in our youth by providing them education that blows other countries away.

How do you make it worthwhile for a private enterprise to produce here?

 

[woolybug25]

You missed Scott Walker. That guy should be cloned and put in all government positions on the planet.

 

[RDU Irish]

I understand your points.

This is obvious but this is a globalized economy. One country coughes the rest get a cold. Look at how small Greece is...tiny...in comparison to US. But if they default then here come the fears of another recession because their governments and companies/banks within those countries have their debt which will then go bad and we are practically back to 2008.

Yes, the GDP and keeping pace with population growth I agree with. It's like inflation..you save money by putting it in your saving account but in essence you are in a losing battle because inflation is 3% and your saving account rate is .03%. But of course you will take what you can get as far as I would take a gain over a loss. Recessions of the distant past are different from what they are now due to the globalized economy...you fall down and you get back up and dust yourself off. Now we have to worry about picking up other people in order for us to stay afloat.

Companies can easily start hiring right now but they are worried about Europe flopping and then the companies are left holding the bag with all these new employees. Fix Europe and have themselves get in order and companies will feel safe to hire again. Companies are sitting on record cash amounts for this reason of being conservative which is smart and I don't blame them for it.

The football analogy is good but you can also use ND to counter that argument. Coach Kelly has everything in place now. It took some time but now we are ready to make a run. He had to get his players and team policies in place and have everyone on board but now he has finally accomplished that and now it's time to prove it. Obama came in during a recession and a dual wars....triple whammie. Wars are now coming to an end and the economy is starting to come back. Needs more time but it is getting back up there.

The one thing that sticks out to me about Romney and Obama is that Obama wanted to bail out the auto industry and Romney wanted them to go bankrupt. That ripple effect of letting them go under in my mind would have been astronomical. Millions of jobs are gone. Millions. Obama put some money into them to give them more time and look...they are profitable and have repaid tax payers most/all of what they were given and have come out with great products that is sustainable.

I'm nnnooooooo where near educated in politics. No where. I've just followed my parents and their views or "here's a list on who to vote for" when I first came to be eligible to vote. Now I do some listening and make my own judgements but I am still very ignorant when it comes to polictics because everyone can persuade you to go their way for their own given reasons and it just annoys me. I just see what really is happening and I try to make sense of it and put it together in a political perspective.

All I can say is give Obama another term....more time...and let's go from there...hell we gave Bush another term.

Just like CK...needs more time but we are seeing a glimpse of hope and that's what I'm seeing here.

Bankruptcy does not necessarily mean Going Out of Business liquidation like you and the media makes it out to be. Bankruptcy means more to owners and bondholders than employees in a lot of cases. Out auto industry was not going to disappear. It was going to restructure for future success. The path chosen screwed our entire system of capitalism to give a handout to unions. Our system works well and now investors have less faith in it because our government did the (previously) unthinkable.

 

[beryirish]

As a human being, Welch is a total jerk... but GE grew 4000% over his tenure as CEO. He may not be able to take all of the credit for it, but he certainly deserves some for it.



- Agilent
- Amazon
- Chevron
- Cintas
- Computer Sciences Corp
- John Deere
- Dell
- DOW
- DuPont
- Gieco
- GE
- Heinz
- Honeywell
- LG Group
- Lockhead Martin
- Merrill Lynch
- PepsiCo
- Siemens
- Hertz
- Staples
- Trane
- Target Corp
- McGraw Hill
- Toshiba
- Whirlpool
- Texas Instruments

I'm not a "lean and mean" six-sigma nerd or anything, but there are a lot of successful companies that utilize it.

Never heard of 'em

 

[Irish Houstonian]

But be got Bin *****, that counts for soemthing, right?

True, but I was more commenting on things that were direct brain-childs of presidents. (That's really the best and most direct way of measuring their worth).

He did approve the raid for sure (as opposed to Biden...), and for that he deserves credit, but it wasn't like going after bin ***** was his idea the way Cash for Clunkers of blocking the Keystone Pipeline was.

I think we were all willing, at first, to put up with a few bad ideas on the expectation that the trade off would be worth it: that he'd have the "most transparent" presidency "ever", that he'd close Guantanamo, end the wars, refuse all lobbyists, "take on" Wall Street, reform the banks, eliminate special interests, etc. Fact is, he's shown that he's incapable of doing any of these things.

Since his upside doesn't really exist, Obama is basically the Bob Davie of American presidents.

 

[RDU Irish]

As a human being, Welch is a total jerk... but GE grew 4000% over his tenure as CEO. He may not be able to take all of the credit for it, but he certainly deserves some for it.



- Agilent
- Amazon
- Chevron
- Cintas
- Computer Sciences Corp
- John Deere
- Dell
- DOW
- DuPont
- Gieco
- GE
- Heinz
- Honeywell
- LG Group
- Lockhead Martin
- Merrill Lynch
- PepsiCo
- Siemens
- Hertz
- Staples
- Trane
- Target Corp
- McGraw Hill
- Toshiba
- Whirlpool
- Texas Instruments

I'm not a "lean and mean" six-sigma nerd or anything, but there are a lot of successful companies that utilize it.

McNerney and Nardelli were runners up for the CEO job after Welch and landed OK (Home Depot, Boeing), I would argue better looking than Immelt right now. I know plenty of folks running multi $100M businesses within GE for small six figure salaries and amazes me how long it takes them to wize up and take a similar post for a private company and get paid twice as much while working without fear. Fact is, GE execs are in high demand.

Immelt is bellied up to the Government bar pretty hard now. Another example of big business lobbying for business instead of competing. Immelt in Barrons last week says himself that they can afford a team of lawyers where small businesses are crushed by regulations and red tape. Real 21st century industrialist there.

 

[rock_knutne]

How do you make it worthwhile for a private enterprise to produce here?

Stop taxing the shite out of them and relax the regulations. Prime example is building an oil refinery. We have enough oil in this country to sustain ourselves, the problem is we only have a couple of refineries that can be used because the EPA has put crazy regulation on that industry, thus we buy the final product already refined from the middle east while our oil is exported.

Tax the chinese hard with tariff's and spearhead a major PR campaign to expose them for what they are..........a country that has no regard for child labor, human rights and workers rights.

Take care of our own, don't drive them out of business or make it next to impossible to start a business.

In a nutshell, this is the type of President we need, not some candy *** who looking for the richest pot.