Police State USA

IrishinSyria

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Marilyn Mosby under fire after appearance at Prince gig - CNN.com

The prosecutor in Baltimore is going to derail whatever case she may have against the police officers. How stupid can she be? Geez.

Well imagine she's politically ambitious but thinks she has no case, at least on the murder charge. She can either quietly lose the case and watch her political star burn out, or she can take preemptive action to associate herself with the outrage of the people. I'm not saying it's the behavior we want out of our lawyers, but I don't think she's dumb.
 

irishff1014

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She isn't very bright making bad decision after another one.


Baltimore has had like 6 murders and 24 shootings since the riots started. Lives must not matter that much...
 
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Bogtrotter07

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A couple of small points to ponder :

A) About the tragedy in Hattiesburg, MS; it is clear from all sources that all of the perps were apprehended quickly due to the effort of local police with the cooperation of residents. Why did nobody bring this up? Because it is really important. Someone that is in law enforcement could speak to this, but I am quite sure that a violent fugitive (felon let alone capital murder suspect) is much more likely to engage in violent behavior before being apprehended, aren't they?

B) This morning my (seventh-grade) daughter was very upset with me for making her a peanut butter bagel (half) for breakfast, when she wouldn't respond as to what she wanted the third time. I can't help but see direct parallels between her behavior, and some on this thread.
 
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Circa

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There are some very interesting thoughts floating around that define our bigotry as a human society.


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Bishop2b5

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I ran across this today from Ben Franklin and it neatly sums up my views.

“Repeal that [welfare] law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. Industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.” He later advised, “I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” Benjamin Franklin
 

irishff1014

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9 dead 32 injured 192 arrested in the outbreak of the animals. Makes no sense to me that a biker gang has to go to a restaurant and have a shoot out. Go to each others stomping grounds and have at it. Stupid.
 

irishff1014

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On a side note about the Baltimore residents I see know on yahoo that Jay-z put up bail more for them. I never liked him just gives me one more reason not too.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I ran across this today from Ben Franklin and it neatly sums up my views.

“Repeal that [welfare] law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. Industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.” He later advised, “I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” Benjamin Franklin

Of course, the whole essay was an argument for overturning the protectionist tactics of British Parliament. The British Government would dictate where goods could or could not be sold, control the market price, and profit from both ends of the deal. (So much for the concept of free trade and open markets.) This was one of the main tactics that inspired Americans to revolt within the next decade.

To make the point encouraging open trade which would help some and hurt others, old Ben, who was known to do so, would champion public sentiment and weave it into the argument of his essays.

I could agree with this possibly, if you all could agree to six day, twelve hours a days, work weeks. What you say this is uncivilized? Barbaric? Sure to lead to a shorter life expectancy? An actual violation of civil rights in this day in age?

Yep. I would have to agree. It is great to take what is good and honorable from the past, but this I see as some of the self-serving drivel; in those days there were not the means for people to produce for themselves, more than those who did. Opportunities for the margins were scarce. Today, the situation is much more sophisticated, but how are you going to find meaning, gainful employment for a victim of FAS with an 85 IQ?

Here is the whole of the essay :


On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor, 1766


To Messieurs the PUBLIC and Co.

I am one of that class of people that feeds you all, and at present is abus’d by you all; in short I am a Farmer.

By your News-papers we are told, that God had sent a very short harvest to some other countries of Europe. I thought this might be in favour to Old England; and that now we should get a good price for our grain, which would bring in millions among us, and make us flow in money, that to be sure is scarce enough.

But the wisdom of Government forbad the exportation.

Well, says I, then we must be content with the market price at home.

No, says my Lords the mob, you sha’n’t have that. Bring your corn to market if you dare; we’ll sell it for you, for less money, or take it for nothing.

Being thus attack’d by both ends of the Constitution, the head and the tail of Government, what am I to do?

Must I keep my corn in barn to feed and increase the breed of rats? be it so; they cannot be less thankful than those I have been used to feed.

Are we Farmers the only people to be grudged the profits of honest labour? And why? One of the late scribblers against us gives a bill of fare of the provisions at my daughter’s wedding, and proclaims to all the world that we had the insolence to eat beef and pudding! Has he never read that precept in the good book, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn; or does he think us less worthy of good living than our oxen?

O, but the Manufacturers! the Manufacturers! they are to be favour’d, and they must have bread at a cheap rate!

Hark-ye, Mr. Oaf; The Farmers live splendidly, you say. And pray, would you have them hoard the money they get? Their fine cloaths and furniture, do they make them themselves, or for one another, and so keep the money among them? Or do they employ these your darling Manufacturers, and so scatter it again all over the nation?

My wool would produce me a better price if it were suffer’d to go to foreign markets. But that, Messieurs the Public, your laws will not permit. It must be kept all at home, that our dear Manufacturers may have it the cheaper. And then, having yourselves thus lessened our encouragement for raising sheep, you curse us for the scarcity of mutton!

I have heard my grandfather say, that the Farmers submitted to the prohibition on the exportation of wool, being made to expect and believe, that when the Manufacturer bought his wool cheaper, they should have their cloth cheaper. But the deuce a bit. It has been growing dearer and dearer from that day to this. How so? why truly the cloth is exported; and that keeps up the price.

Now if it be a good principle, that the exportation of a commodity is to be restrain’d, that so our own people at home may have it the cheaper, stick to that principle, and go thorough stitch with it. Prohibit the exportation of your cloth, your leather and shoes, your iron ware, and your manufactures of all sorts, to make them all cheaper at home. And cheap enough they will be, I’ll warrant you—till people leave off making them.

Some folks seem to think they ought never to be easy, till England becomes another Lubberland where ’tis fancied the streets are paved with penny rolls, the houses tiled with pancakes, and chickens ready roasted cry, come eat me.

I say, when you are sure you have got a good principle, stick to it, and carry it thorough. I hear ’tis said, that though it was necessary and right for the M—y to advise a prohibition of the exportation of corn, yet it was contrary to law; and also, that though it was contrary to law for the mob to obstruct the waggons, yet it was necessary and right. Just the same thing, to a tittle. Now they tell me, an act of indemnity ought to pass in favour of the M—y, to secure them from the consequences of having acted illegally. If so, pass another in favour of the mob. Others say, some of the mob ought to be hanged, by way of example. If so, —— but I say no more than I have said before, when you are sure that you have got a good principle, go thorough with it.

You say, poor labourers cannot afford to buy bread at a high price, unless they had higher wages. Possibly. But how shall we Farmers be able to afford our labourers higher wages, if you will not allow us to get, when we might have it, a higher price for our corn? [You see within the same document Ben arguing the same argument that proves the value of a minimum wage!]

By all I can learn, we should at least have had a guinea a quarter more if the exportation had been allowed. And this money England would have got from foreigners.

But, it seems, we Farmers must take so much less, that the poor may have it so much cheaper.

This operates then as a tax for the maintenance of the poor. A very good thing, you will say. But I ask, Why a partial tax? Why laid on us Farmers only? [This is where he draws an equivalence between controling farm prices and where they can be traded to a tax. What he is saying is that Britian is keeping the price of raw materials low, so more can be employed by manufacturing, in other words, the work offered by the mills and manufacturing plants is welfare for the poor! This kind of changes the context.] If it be a good thing, pray, Messrs. the Public, take your share of it, by indemnifying us a little out of your public treasury. In doing a good thing there is both honour and pleasure; you are welcome to your part of both.

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavors to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.

Excuse me, Messrs. the Public, if upon this interesting subject, I put you to the trouble of reading a little of my nonsense. I am sure I have lately read a great deal of yours; and therefore from you (at least from those of you who are writers) I deserve a little indulgence. I am, your’s, &c.

And I leave you with this analogy : Not making the poor easy in poverty is like turning up the heat thermostat in a house on fire on a 100 degree day! How can anyone that ever read the words of Jesus, or professes Christian faith ever endorse this? Next what do we do, beat fifth graders that haven't decided on their college majors!
 
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goldandblue

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And I leave you with this analogy : Not making the poor easy in poverty is like turning up the heat thermostat in a house on fire on a 100 degree day! How can anyone that ever read the words of Jesus, or professes Christian faith ever endorse this? Next what do we do, beat fifth graders that haven't decided on their college majors!

2 Thessalonians 3: 6-15

I don't think people have an issue with providing for the poor that are not capable of providing for themselves. The issue people have is with those that can but choose not to.
 

Circa

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On a side note about the Baltimore residents I see know on yahoo that Jay-z put up bail more for them. I never liked him just gives me one more reason not too.

I think a lot of us have a hard time understanding.. digging down in that crawl to try to see what some of us have to look at, interpret and make complete sense of. The hate for those unlike our comfort level seems to be the major issue and an issue that a psychologist has touched on from time to time. We all have the yearning to live and live free. Live and let be.
 

kmoose

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Wow, that really highlights the stupidity of the American Public.

Salon's Jenny Kutner points out that while some media outlets and law enforcement described the demonstrations in Baltimore and Ferguson as "riots" and painted the protesters as "thugs," a different vocabulary is being used to describe the Waco incident:



"The rival gangs were not engaged in a demonstration or protest and they were predominantly white, which means that — despite the fact that dozens of people engaged in acts of obscene violence — they did not 'riot,' as far as much of the media is concerned. 'Riots' are reserved for communities of color in protest, whether they organize violently or not, and the 'thuggishness' of those involved is debatable. That doesn't seem to be the case in Texas."

Salon's Jenny Kuntner should find another line of work. One that doesn't require critical thought. Of course the shootout with each other, and cops, wasn't referred to as a "riot". "Riots" generally involve looting and arson, and are predominantly politically motivated.

You know what you DIDN'T hear about Waco? "Well, biker clubs have always been discriminated against, and this was just the result of all of those decades of pent up cultural rage. Maybe if the cops, and society, would stop discriminating against bikers, then stuff like this wouldn't happen."
 

Woneone

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That's actually kind of comical.

Any of the discussions I've seen or had about this situation, words worse than "Thugs" are used. Here, I'll give an example:

Those fuc$%s are the scum of the earth. They're pathetic, and have no place in civilized society. F them.

Do they want an equivalency drawn? These people shouldn't want the same treatment, the same coverage, or any of that. There were, from what I saw, a total of 170 people charged with crimes at this point. That's not brought up in any of those tweets. Did they charge everyone who was "rioting".

Problem is, people are drawing conclusions based on their preconceived notions, which is exactly what people are arguing against. There were riots. But there were also protests. Big difference. If a riot occurs, it should be called such. Peaceful protests should be separated and, for the most part, have been.

What happened in Waco was a freaking Gang War. A blood bath. Yet people are upset at, well, what exactly? That it isn't considered a riot? That it's viewed as worse?

There are valid arguments to the race debate in this country. Here, people are reaching to draw parallels.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Note that I presented the article without comment. I don't know what I think. Just thought it was pertinent to the Police State thread.
 

kmoose

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Note that I presented the article without comment. I don't know what I think. Just thought it was pertinent to the Police State thread.

Yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was putting you in the crosshairs. That was not my intent.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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2 Thessalonians 3: 6-15

I don't think people have an issue with providing for the poor that are not capable of providing for themselves. The issue people have is with those that can but choose not to.

I really feel you. But in my travels, studies, and adventures, when it comes to The Bible, and even the New Testament, I have a really hard time straying from the words attributed to Jesus directly, and then I feel better with those having more than one source :

Luke 6:20-22New International Version (NIV)

20 Looking at his disciples, he said:

“Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.

21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you will laugh.

22 Blessed are you when people hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil,
because of the Son of Man."


Luke 6:24-26New International Version (NIV)

24 But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.

25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.

26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Matthew 5:3-12New International Version (NIV)

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5:11-12English Standard Version (ESV)

11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Wow, that really highlights the stupidity of the American Public.



Salon's Jenny Kuntner should find another line of work. One that doesn't require critical thought. Of course the shootout with each other, and cops, wasn't referred to as a "riot". "Riots" generally involve looting and arson, and are predominantly politically motivated.

You know what you DIDN'T hear about Waco? "Well, biker clubs have always been discriminated against, and this was just the result of all of those decades of pent up cultural rage. Maybe if the cops, and society, would stop discriminating against bikers, then stuff like this wouldn't happen."

So apparently you can shoot up a restaurant, then shoot at police and not be called a thug. If you are white. #WacoThugs

This is one time you and I are in agreement out of the chute!

In Waco the bikers did not do enough property damage or steal nearly enough to raise the ire of the American Midflab population. Just a simple fact : the bikers could have dropped the body count, but if you burned and looted the restaurant and adjacent stores, the bikers would have gone down as some of the worst murderous thugs of all times! Priorities!

But I believe biker gangs didn't get the whole "pent up cultural rage," or whatever is because :

  1. Bikers have been more identified with and accepted that most minority groups, and
  2. Fear of bikers is based more upon behavior and experience than the thoughtlessness of prejudice as seen against minority groups.

In other words if you mess with bikers, they are going to kick your ass and kill you nka, with minorities the fear is more that you may have to live next to them or they may tint your grand-babies; Kind or like machine gun fire versus slow leak radiation poisoning, you can "talk first" in only the second situation.
 

irishff1014

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Omaha Nebraska female officer shot and killed while assisting with a warrent attempt. Rip!
 

#1rish

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So sad. She was supposed to go on maternity leave the next day for her baby she had a few months ago. RIP Officer Orozco.
 

kmoose

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Omaha Nebraska female officer shot and killed while assisting with a warrent attempt. Rip!




So sad. She was supposed to go on maternity leave the next day for her baby she had a few months ago. RIP Officer Orozco.

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irishff1014

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According to Wjz news out of Baltimore they had 26 shootings reported since Friday night and 9 of them fatal. All lives matter huh? Only matters when an officer is involved!
 

Wild Bill

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According to Wjz news out of Baltimore they had 26 shootings reported since Friday night and 9 of them fatal. All lives matter huh? Only matters when an officer is involved!

Memorial day weekend marks the start of the summer shooting season. Buckle up.
 
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Buster Bluth

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According to Wjz news out of Baltimore they had 26 shootings reported since Friday night and 9 of them fatal. All lives matter huh? Only matters when an officer is involved!

All lives matter. It's just especially noteworthy when officers of the state harm/murder innocents.

In case you missed it, blacks aren't fans of the crime situation happening in cities either.
 

kmoose

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All lives matter. It's just especially noteworthy when officers of the state harm/murder innocents.

In case you missed it, blacks aren't fans of the crime situation happening in cities either.

But, in case you missed it:

I saw clips of the protestors in Baltimore just now on CNN. They were NOT out condemning the violence and pleading for an end to it. They were out screaming about how the government is persecuting them (building jails instead of new schools, less police presence in their neighborhoods, etc).
 

irishff1014

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But, in case you missed it:

I saw clips of the protestors in Baltimore just now on CNN. They were NOT out condemning the violence and pleading for an end to it. They were out screaming about how the government is persecuting them (building jails instead of new schools, less police presence in their neighborhoods, etc).

They were out on I95 to the 395 ramp. The protest lead by a "rev" Jamal Bryant. No real rev would be part of these foolish acts. Act it is actually not legal to block traffic. It is a very minor law breaking offense. I pay MD taxes and i don't support this jail. But i am not walking across a highway like a fool risking my life that a car might not stop and run me over.

But if they get hit by a car it won't be their fault it will be the governments fault somehow.
 
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